Post: #51

Because 99.9% of vegans are faggots, pussies, women, or dudes who throw fits about guys who banged 100 chicks.

I've never met the other 0.01% of them, but I'm sure it's the powerlifter above. He seems swell.

Post: #52

Notice the smug attitude death to fatties is taking? (Saying eating meat makes you impotent, that eggs are poison, the gorilla cartoon, etc.)

That's a big reason people aren't receptive to the vegan message.

Post: #53

I don't get veganism. At all.

Clearly, humans haven't evolved to eat a diet based mostly on carbs or plant-based proteins -- but animal fats and some easy digestible veggies, fruits, nuts & seeds. Veganism is working against nature.

TBH, eating sausages, chicken, turkey, steaks, meatballs, bacon is just great. From 2000-2006 I actually ate meat in moderation, because Men's Health had a whole series of articles that proved that was more healthy; vegetarianism was promoted a lot back then in the media overall and, at the time, I bought it. The whole vegan/vegetarian idea is based on fraudulent assumptions. Veganism's also typically something liberals or women try to sell you. It's like they smell if there's something most normal men find enjoyment in, they must be against it.

But, hey, if you like veganism or believe it to be morally just, go ahead. If you leave more meat on the table for me, I'm all for it.

I'm with Ron Swanson on this one.

Post: #54

I went vegan for 10 days. High carb vegan - only fruit and lentils.

Your poop stops stinking. No troll. My farts had no smell. Same with my bowel movements.

Lost some fat and some muscle too.

Veganism doesn't work for my lifestyle but more people should give it a try.

Post: #55

All those guys in the pictures (khali and the strongman) do not need the amount of protein and fat because their hormones come in a bottle.

Most of the vegan guys I've met are extremely beta. I wonder why.

Post: #56

Mike Tyson is a vegan. It's how he lost all that fat a few years ago. Not sure if he still is, but to slim down it seems a good short term option. I wouldn't want to do it though.

Post: #57

At least 1/3 population of India is (lacto-) vegetarian , i.e. ~400 million people. Most of them might not have great bodies but neither do most meat eaters. And don't say its only the poorest, most emaciated ones. One could care less about any such philosophy when one's struggling for basic sustenance. The basic philosophy is based on the concept of non-violence in Hinduism and Budhhism.

But at least people here aren't whiners like vegan "activists." I am disgusted even at the sight of meat but the most I can do is try to make a person see my point of view. If they aren't receptive to it, oh well.

(edit: smug talk) Maybe every meat eater should prepare their food from scratch at least once. I wonder how many people will eat meat when they have to kill and skin the animal themselves.

My philosophy is to be not responsible for an animal's death unless its the last option (for self preservation.) Why take a life when you can be just as healthy without it.

Post: #58

For me, food is one of life's greatest pleasures right after sex.

Why do I want to artificially limit what I eat? Steak is one of the most amazing things ever.

I watched a documentary on the meat processing industry a long time ago in high school. It was pretty brutal, but I'm still cool with eating meat. Heck, I wanted a steak after it. Who said farming and butchering was an easy job?

Post: #59

Vegetarianism I fully understand. I eat vegetarian 2 days a week, it's just not about health but also cost and sustainability.

Veganism though... Feels ruined by political posturing.

Post: #60

The hate and hostility I encounter regarding vegetarianism still surprises me, considering it has no effect whatsoever on anyone who chooses not to follow it. I surmise it stems from (real or perceived) holier-than-thou attitudes on the part of some vegetarians.

Personally I am a "non-proselytizing" vegetarian. I choose not to eat meat, but I've no interest at all in stopping anyone else from enjoying any food they wish. I never mention vegetarianism unless asked about the subject. And I don't see it as anyone else's duty to cater to my dietary peculiarities--so the intense unsolicited antipathy is odd.

On a tangent, I started lifting last year using Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength, and my progress doesn't seem to have been impacted by my diet.

Post: #61

I am a nutrition fanatic, and I don't believe that veganism is very good for both physical and cognitive performance. Veganism however can work, but you have to use shit tons of supplements which necessarily do not work as well as getting the same stuff from real food. When people try veganism for the first time, they usually feel great for the first month because they get more nutrients which they might have been deficient in their previous diet. But then the reality hits the face when B12, iron and creatine are depleted from their body.

The thing is that vegans are dumber and weaker. Not necessarily dumber and weaker than the rest of the population, but dumber and weaker than they could be. Vegans example receive significant brain performance boost when supplementing with creatine - which is normally found in meat - whereas meat eaters see only a small boost in their brain performance. Creatine also plays a significant role in physical performance. That's not all: meat contains B12(obvious), carnosine, D3, DHA and many enhancing amino acids in much greater quantities than the vegan diet alone. Also vegans are often deficient in many nutrients which are critical for your performance: such as zinc, iron, calcium etc. Beta carotene is shit compared to preformed retinol from eggs and liver, which are foods every acne-prone should have in their diet. There is no preformed forms of vitamin A in vegetable sources.

The strongman champion is a vegan but he is also blasting & cruising with plenty of performance enhancing drugs. I don't think they even have drugs tests there(which would be easy to pass anyway). The thing with exogenous testosterone is that your diet and sleep patterns matter very little because your body doesn't have to produce testosterone on its own.

Post: #62

(12-11-2013 05:59 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Because 99.9% of vegans are faggots, pussies, women, or dudes who throw fits about guys who banged 100 chicks.

I've never met the other 0.01% of them, but I'm sure it's the powerlifter above. He seems swell.

Actually, most faggots, pussies, women, or dudes who throw fits about guys who banged 100 chicks eat the standard American diet, which includes plenty of meat.

Post: #63

(12-11-2013 06:25 AM)Maciano Wrote:  I don't get veganism. At all.

Clearly, humans haven't evolved to eat a diet based mostly on carbs or plant-based proteins -- but animal fats and some easy digestible veggies, fruits, nuts & seeds. Veganism is working against nature.

TBH, eating sausages, chicken, turkey, steaks, meatballs, bacon is just great. From 2000-2006 I actually ate meat in moderation, because Men's Health had a whole series of articles that proved that was more healthy; vegetarianism was promoted a lot back then in the media overall and, at the time, I bought it. The whole vegan/vegetarian idea is based on fraudulent assumptions. Veganism's also typically something liberals or women try to sell you. It's like they smell if there's something most normal men find enjoyment in, they must be against it.

But, hey, if you like veganism or believe it to be morally just, go ahead. If you leave more meat on the table for me, I'm all for it.

I'm with Ron Swanson on this one.

No offense, but I wouldn't take anything in a magazine too seriously. Go with medical/scientific research journals instead.

Post: #64

Post: #65

I have chosen out of red meat and eating mammals in general over 20 years now. I'll eat all kinds of other tasty animals, but the major ones make me feel dirty and guilty. Hunting is a different matter, though I favor bow and arrow, if I knew how.

For me it was a matter of an ethical choice, and living downwind from a slaughterhouse. Plus I am a tree hugging hippie sometimes.

I echo the sentiments of some posters above, I dont particularly proselytise, but if asked I'll tell you why.
It comes down to choice. I believe that:

a)consumer choice makes the market, and I'll be damned if I dont do what I think is right (see b)
b) most of deforestation and loss of species habitat is due to ranching and farming (mostly ranching)
c) global warming is a reality.
d) all the above are related. Where do you think cheap meat comes from?
e) I want no part in any of the above.

Where is your personal responsibility? the choices you make on what you eat have a direct impact on the environment. I refuse to believe in the hamster that spins that 'oh but its only me not doing it, all the other kids do it . . .'

Its like passing on easy pussy from fat chicks. No sir, I'll pass on hambeast pussy. A man has to have standards.

Post: #66

"No offense, but I wouldn't take anything in a magazine too seriously. Go with medical/scientific research journals instead."

I don't take offense on these matters. Ever. If you function & feel better while vegan, I'm all for it. Live & let live, I say. I tried vegetarianism/meat moderation & it made me miserable; nothing could satiate the hunger. But I'm well aware, as was written elsewhere in this thread, that there 100 of millions of people in India who survive meatless.

Still: I take evolution seriously, therefore genuinely believe animal fats/proteins are a necessary part of our diet. We evolved to eat it and any scientific journal ignoring this insight is not really coherent. Whatever you eat: just don't eat sugar, white flour or hyperprocessed pre-packaged conserved junk. With that in mind, I think we'll all be mostly fine.

Post: #67

What if you eat mostly egg whites? Is that where the choline is?

Also, you can get all the protein you need from vegetables, and it doesn't have to be beans and nuts (which have lots of fat).

Truth is that of you eat McDonalds- most of that is just chemicals. I believe their burgers aren't even meat but some kind sand or horse hoove mixture.

Also they put cochineal bugs in a lot of food for red coloring. I think they have to announce it now though otherwise people get allergies.

Does anyone know if they put cochineal bugs in ketchup?

Post: #68

Quote:Truth is that of you eat McDonalds- most of that is just chemicals. I believe their burgers aren't even meat but some kind sand or horse hoove mixture.

Doubtful, because there'd be a lot of money in suing them if that were the case. That said, it's certainly not high quality beef you're getting.

Post: #69

(12-11-2013 08:00 AM)deathtofatties Wrote:  Actually, most faggots, pussies, women, or dudes who throw fits about guys who banged 100 chicks eat the standard American diet, which includes plenty of meat.

See, that's where the scam comes in.

Vegans act like its SAD or veganism.

My favorite meal is oatmeal made with pure pumpkin (adding pumpkin pie spices but not sugar) and mixed with whey and/or casein protein powder.

Would I really gain as much muscle as I want by skipping the whey protein?

Or by adding some crap brown rice protein powder?

I know a lot about the vegan scene, actually, and very few vegans carry around any appreciable amount of muscle mass. There are some exceptions, and you turn those exceptions into poster boys when in fact they are rare.

To gain muscle you need a lot of animal protein. Or at least the vast majority of people do.

Some can get by on a vegan diet. For those people, great. Go vegan.

But for the rest of us, veganism is simply not practical.

Post: #70

Someone is having a vegan meltdown. Probably from low testosterone. Eat more meat.

Post: #71

Mike, casein is made from animals?

Post: #72

(12-11-2013 11:02 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 08:00 AM)deathtofatties Wrote:  Actually, most faggots, pussies, women, or dudes who throw fits about guys who banged 100 chicks eat the standard American diet, which includes plenty of meat.

See, that's where the scam comes in.

Vegans act like its SAD or veganism.

My favorite meal is oatmeal made with pure pumpkin (adding pumpkin pie spices but not sugar) and mixed with whey and/or casein protein powder.

Would I really gain as much muscle as I want by skipping the whey protein?

Or by adding some crap brown rice protein powder?

I know a lot about the vegan scene, actually, and very few vegans carry around any appreciable amount of muscle mass. There are some exceptions, and you turn those exceptions into poster boys when in fact they are rare.

To gain muscle you need a lot of animal protein. Or at least the vast majority of people do.

Some can get by on a vegan diet. For those people, great. Go vegan.

But for the rest of us, veganism is simply not practical.

Actually, I agree for the most part. The culprit is most likely not enough calories.

Meat is dense in calories, but for most people it will also make them gain adipose (fatty tissue) which can raise estrogen levels.

Post: #73

A simple, natural diet is best. There is no group of people anywhere on the planet that evolved without consuming animal products. We can therefore assume that eating animal products is natural and healthy.

Veganism is also unnatural because it's only feasible to follow in a rich, globalized society. There's no other way you can have year-round access to all the fruits, vegetables and legumes you need to remain even remotely healthy. Then of course you also require a number of pharmaceutical grade nutritional supplements as well. Could you have been a vegan in the year 1500? Good luck.

I've found that a lot of the loudest vegans are people who used to be fat or have awful diets. They switch to veganism and feel a lot better since they aren't stuffing themselves with shit processed foods and think it was the animal products that made them feel bad. Nope.

Frankly, I don't give a fuck what you put in your mouth, but stop trying to convert people to a diet that is wholly unnatural. This shit is basically a religion to some people. It's extremely obnoxious.

And forgive me for going 2Wycked here, but there also seems to be a heavy narcissistic element to people who push veganism. They seem either totally obsessed with their own health or their own morality. They think that veganism is either going to allow them to live to 100 with the body of a man half their age, or else by avoiding meat they are existing a higher moral plane. Both of these are just utter nonsense, and living with that kind of obsession is itself very unhealthy.

You're going to die and you're going to get old. Eating an unnatural diet devoid of animal products because you're scared of those facts is embracing a fear-based lifestyle. It's very transparent.

Your life expectancy has much more to do with your genetics than anything else. Even moderate smoking and drinking don't matter as much as people think. If you want to be healthy and live as long as possible, exercise regularly, sleep 8 hours a night, avoid stress, excessive alcohol and smoking and eat a reasonable diet. Which includes animal products. The rest is out of our hands, so all we can do is live well while we're here.

Post: #74

(12-11-2013 11:02 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  My favorite meal is oatmeal made with pure pumpkin (adding pumpkin pie spices but not sugar) and mixed with whey and/or casein protein powder.

Off topic, but can I get the recipe for that? Sounds amazing.

Post: #75

deathtofatties:

I'll address some of the claims you have made in your posts throughout this thread. There are many logically fallacious statements littering your posts but I'll do my best to address the main ones.

The first ncbi link in your OP is broken. Can you relink it please? The one that claims that it is not necessary to eat any meat whatsoever to maintain or increase testosterone levels. You actually state that the opposite is true. Now I know this claim of yours that eating meat actually decreases T levels is so obviously not true it is laughable - intuitively it makes zero sense - but I'd still like to read the study that claims it to be so and i'll withhold judgement until I analyze it. I have no doubt there are some serious flaws with it and the interpretation/manipulation of the results in order to suit some pro-vegan (read: pro grain industry) agenda.

2. In the second study you linked to you claim that the result of the study determined that "eating too much saturated fat from animal sources can lead to erectile dysfunction".

No it doesn't. There is absolutely NOTHING in that study that shows causation of ED as a result of eating saturated fat from animal protein. There is so much wrong with the construction and subsequent analysis of that study that to begin to break down its flaws would take an entire paper in itself. But make no mistake, there's nothing in it that claims that eating saturated fat from animal sources causes ED. Even the (almost certainly biased) authors didnt have the audacity to claim that.

3. There are MANY studies showing the detrimental effects of eating soy on men's libidos. The estrogenic effects alone are cause enough to not touch the stuff. Here's a couple of solid links:
http://chriskresser.com/soy-foods-associ...erm-counts
http://chriskresser.com/the-soy-ploy
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/593S.long

Now I know veganism doesn't require the intake of soy, but lets face facts - many vegans substitute meat/seafood/eggs/dairy/etc with alternative food sources. These are usually grain and soy. If you're trying to build any sort of muscle and trying to get 3k+ calories per day from fruit and vegetables alone without any animal products or grain?... Yeah, good luck with that. Say hello to the diabetes bomb you will inevitably develop from ingesting all that fructose (sugar).

4. "Obesity, Erectile Dysfunction, Poor Cardiovascular Health, Oxidative stress (accelerated aging), Inflammation, Arthritis and Gout..."

There are zero published studies showing meat as a causative factor in ANY of those maladies you listed. If you can find one (that isn't inherently flawed or willfully misinterprets the data) you could single handedly demolish the entire paleo movement. Do you have any idea the amount of militant vegans who would just LOVE to do that? God they would gleefully be all over such a study. The China Study was the closest the vegetarian/vegan crowd ever came to that until Denise Minger and Chris Masterjohn among other notables thoroughly destroyed and debunked it and forever discredited the career of its author T. Colin Campbell in the process.

5. "But you do realize that they feed the animals grains, so anytime you eat animal products, you are indirectly supporting the grain industry anyway."

That's why i only eat grass fed beef, free range chicken, etc. ie: What all animals for the entire history of the planet except for the last sub-100 years ate.
Eating meet doesn't have to support the grain industry.

6. The Vegan bodybuilder? Ate meat most of his training life, and animal poducts up until 2 years ago. Also, come on, there's no fucking way that guy isn't loaded to the gills with "performance enhancing supplements" if you know what I mean. Regardless, one genetic freak doesn't prove the efficacy or optimality of anything. He's an outlier, an exception to the rule. Simple as that. Don't use the NAWALT defense. Come on, we're better than that around here.

Veganism is far from optimal and optimal is what we should all be striving for.

Here's a solid post that outlines some of the more common fallacies oft promoted by pro-vegan agenda folk:

http://authoritynutrition.com/top-5-reas...ible-idea/

If veganism is working for you personally then keep it up. But don't make the mistake of thinking that it is optimal for your health or physique/performance goals because there's a mountain of evidence that says otherwise. I have no problem with vegans. But when they start spewing bogus science and claiming some sort of moral high ground (relax, not saying you are here, but we all know many that are just like that) then that's when i get annoyed.