Post: #1

As I am in my 4th year 2nd semester, my motivation to do well in my courses has dropped because I have come to realize that my degree is just a worthless piece of paper.

Now am not in liberal arts, but in fine arts, majoring in film production. I have looked up on reddit in regards to film majors finding a job in the film industry after graduation, only to find them complaining to not be able to get a fucking job (this includes people with masters in film).

My one friend's dad, who is an accomplished camera man, even told me that a film degree is not respected in the real world. It's more about knowing people, having a good attitude, and being able to work hard 12-16 hours a day. When he asked me what BFA stands for, I told him "Bachelor degree of Fine Arts" when he corrected me by saying "Bachelor degree of Fuck All".

Looking back at the film program I have been taking, I am seeing his point. The first two years we really did not use an actual camera and learned about working on a film set. We didn't even touch post production editing programs like Final Cut Pro and Avid. Some of the theory classes were interesting, while others were boring, and I don't see how I will be able to apply them while working in the film industry.3rd and 4th year I have learned some, but feel that I could have learned that in a few weeks from actually having a film job.

This truth sunk in more when my one good friend completed a two year program at the Arts Institutes in Vancouver, only to not be able to get a fucking job in film on his own. He did get one film job as a camera assistant, only because my other friend's dad (the camera man) hooked him up with one. My buddy knows Final Cut and After Effects quite well and learned more than I have about working on set and post production, but only has $60k debt to show for it. Thankfully, my degree will be around $20k in total when I am done, and I have slowly been paying it off by working part time during school and working full time during the summer this whole time. When I am done I won't be in much debt.

Knowing all of this (and have been frustrated/depressed ever since taking the manosphere "red-pill") I have not been doing as well in school as I should be. I'm really just doing the bare minimum to get by. At least the film industry doesn't take your GPA into account.

If I don't drop out of any of the classes I am in this semester, i will only need to take 6 more courses to complete my degree. I will be turning 23 soon, but the thought of spending the majority of my early 20's in school gives me an uncomfortable feeling in my stomach. Doesn't matter if I have a film degree or not, I am going to be starting at the bottom of the totem pole once I get out in the real world.

I feel as if I should be getting my feet wet as a picture editor already. I feel as if I should have traveled a bit like many of my friends have already instead of being in school. I am worried that I will be in the same situation as my one friend who despite being qualified for working in film, can't get a job in film.

Should I just say "Fuck it." and not finish my degree? Should I just take a break, travel to Toronto or Vancouver, and try to get a film job at a tv station? Should I take a break from school and travel for awhile?

Anyone else here has been in the same situation as me?

Sorry if this is a long post, but after spending the ages of 19-22 (almost 23) in film school, this really concerns me.

Post: #2

I just graduated 3 months ago. Same boat here except I am doing everything I can to transition to a different city, my hellhole is worse than DC. Finish your college, there are many ENTRY LEVEL jobs you wont even qualify for without a degree. But you still have an entire year to go. Read The First 60 Seconds by Dan Burns as well as The Education of Millionaires by Michael Ellsberg and throw in I will Teach you to be Rich by Ramit Sethi. The last one is just good to have at a young age and the most readable of the 3.

The first 60 seconds will show you how to do resumes completely different than the crap your learning in college. Use it to land a top job at an Investment firm or somewhere that will really give you a head start at a young age. Yes, you can land a job you dont qualify for by following the tips in this book. It isnt a means to an end by itself, I recommend reading interview question books like 101 toughtest interview questions just to be mentally prepared for the interview when you land it.

The Education of Millionaires points you in the direction of learning skills to make you a valuable networker and employee. This is a lifelong learning of skills that will make you into a milionaire, I wish I had this book at 18, I would have dropped out of college by 20.

Ramit just teaches you how to be rich without all the information overload and investment fluff you normally get. Ive been reading finance books for over 5 years and I am very impressed with this book.

Read those 3 books as fast as possible, plow through them and start implementing. You have a FULL year to get your foot inside of somewhere. Work for free for 3 badass internships or companies with great reputations, put them on references and your resume. Maybe youll work for one of them. You dont HAVE to finish school but I dont recommend dropping out unless you can afford to be an apprentice to a legit film director for at least a year. Youll need the money to work for him for free for a year and youll have to get him to agree to it of course.

Otherwise your probably better off putting yourself in a situation to get a good job via internship, and its easier to get an internship while in college. Maybe you can get the internship and then drop out of college and use those internships coupled with the networking skills you learn to set yourself up.

Edit: After re-reading your post I am on the fence as to whether you should drop out or not, but look up my thread on lying on your resume. More people do it than you think. The smartest and most effective is to claim student organizations and positions, say you were president of the Independent Film society and a member for 4 years to get yourself into a good job. Just get your foot in the door. If you have any questions dont hesitate to PM me.

Post: #3

Come here and help me write and sell my movie and sitcom. My ideas are gold. My execution is lead.

Post: #4

(02-27-2012 12:22 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Come here and help me write and sell my movie and sitcom. My ideas are gold. My execution is lead.

El Mech -

Looks there are are plenty of "guest bartenders" on here.

Post: #5

There is a subtle myth perpetuated by the education system that if I get a degree in X, after I graduate I will get a job doing X. It often doesn't work that way, especially in a field like film. There are hundreds or thousands like you, but not that many jobs. What makes you special? Why should you get the job instead of your buddy, or the girl who sits behind you? Ultimately that's the question you need to answer. You have to be better than 95% of people in some way: work harder, work smarter, do things they haven't done, can't do, won't do, don't know that you should do, etc.

defguy had some good suggestions. Ramith Sethi also has some stuff about standing out, networking with people, etc. His website is worth checking out.

Post: #6

yeah i definitely relate, im sitting here staring out my window looking over vancouver, looking at 3 different ski hills, looking at stanley park, realizing that I would much rather be out there doing something than in here learning something I do not enjoy. I do enjoy the field, but getting there seems like a waste of time.

Post: #7

Let's reframe this to the positive.

You still have nearly one year left to prepare. If you prepare right, you can hit the ground running once you have your degree.

Let's pick a number out of thin air. Say 50% of graduates get jobs, the other 50% don't. Why are you automatically lumping yourself in the 50% that didn't get a job?

All you have to do is be better than average and you will transition to a job and hopefully a career.

--
Two guys were hunting in the forest when they unexpectedly came across a very large brown bear. Immediately, they both took off running. After a few minutes, one guy abruptly stopped running, took off his backpack, and pulled out a pair of running shoes.

The other guy saw this and was wondering what was going on. So he stopped, ran back to the first guy and asked, "Why are you putting on your running shoes? Do you really think you are going to be able to out run that bear with those?"

The other guy replied, "I don't have to out run the bear, I just have to out run YOU!"
--

So what are the things you could do to be more employable? That guy's dad already gave you some clues. Network, have a good attitude.

How could you network? Professors. Alums. Friends. LinkedIn. Cold e-mails.

The friends you've made from your class are the guys who should be hooking you up once they start working (either now or when they graduate).

How could you get work experience before you graduate? Do easy stuff like editing wedding videos. Shoot a professional looking mini-video in your spare time and YouTube it.

What percentage of your class would have shot a portfolio video on their own initiative by the time they graduate? Wouldn't that make you stand out?

It sounds like you want to give up, simply because a career doesn't fall into your lap once you graduate. Sorry you had to find out only at this late stage. For most people, it's always been like that.

Post: #8

Congrats! Welcome to reality. Now that you've realized you've been swindled in The Great Ponzi that is the American economy, what will you do?

Post: #9

(02-27-2012 12:23 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(02-27-2012 12:22 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Come here and help me write and sell my movie and sitcom. My ideas are gold. My execution is lead.

El Mech -

Looks there are are plenty of "guest bartenders" on here.

Yes. Maybe I can bounce one of my movie ideas off of you. It's a comedy about some Irish Americans and the IRA. My sitcom is about retired snowbirds who get stung by being cheap. Also a comedy.

Post: #10

I finished my degree 20 years ago....it's still useless, unless you intend on being a corporate slave putting in 50+ hour weeks for a fortune 100 consulting firm. Now, why would you ever want to do that after being a member of this forum?

* Google excluded, it is the only company I would LOVE to work for if I were not independent.


Mixx

Post: #11

(02-27-2012 01:01 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(02-27-2012 12:23 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(02-27-2012 12:22 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Come here and help me write and sell my movie and sitcom. My ideas are gold. My execution is lead.

El Mech -

Looks there are are plenty of "guest bartenders" on here.

Yes. Maybe I can bounce one of my movie ideas off of you. It's a comedy about some Irish Americans and the IRA. My sitcom is about retired snowbirds who get stung by being cheap. Also a comedy.

Sure, let me know.

I have a screen play I want to write about my Grandfather.

It's Michael Collins meets Hoosiers.

I think it is shoo-in come Oscar time.

(02-27-2012 01:05 PM)MiXX Wrote:  * Google excluded, it is the only company I would LOVE to work for if I were not independent.


Mixx

What about Apple?

Post: #12

Jesus H fucking christ on a crutch. Another thread about this same subject.

oh well, i have said all i need to say about the matter here:

/thread-10130-...#pid167725

That is my position anyways.

Post: #13

(02-27-2012 01:10 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(02-27-2012 01:05 PM)MiXX Wrote:  * Google excluded, it is the only company I would LOVE to work for if I were not independent.


Mixx

What about Apple?

I honestly would not work for Apple. Apple makes great products, and I'm a huge fan, but being an employee has you walking on eggshells with your ass so tight, that if you fart, only dogs would hear it!

Their confidentiality agreements are no joke, and if you so much as breathe without their permission, it is your ass in more ways that you can imagine.

I have met Apple employees, trust me, they are not as happy as the Google employees - they never will be.


Mixx

Post: #14

(02-27-2012 11:48 AM)yeah get some Wrote:  after spending the ages of 19-22 (almost 23) in film school, this really concerns me.

Quit whining and finish what you started.

Would you have rather spent your ages of 19-22 making whoppers at burger king?

Get off the computer and go to class!!!

Aloha!

Post: #15

I can feel you man. I took some film courses and made some shorts, one getting an honorable award in a local film festival, losing too much money to cover costs in the process. Where do you live? You should always see what the film market is like before you signed up for film.

A cinematographer told me that there are basically 2 ways to "get in".
1. Get work on sets, moving equipment, being PAs, sucking ass most of the top in the hopes of moving up, being 2nd camera assistants, then 1st camera assistant etc. You'll be mostly aiming for commercials cause that's where the money is (for the company, not you) and you won't be part of the creative process for a long long time.

2. Direct your own short films, send them to festivals, try to get your reel recognized, basically work towards and hope for your "break".

Understand that wanting to direct feature films is like a broke actor wanting to be a hyoooooge movie star. You can get there, but you have to be prepared for a decade of hard hard work and living broke that in the end might not pay off. Forget alcohol/club game. How many graduates of your school gets to make features in the local film industry?

With that said, I recommend these books:
http://www.amazon.com/Rebel-without-Crew..._lmf_tit_1

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Filmmaking-K..._lmf_tit_3

The first is Robert Rodriguez's story. 2nd contains more practical info than most first 2 years of film school.

Post: #16

(02-27-2012 12:58 PM)Tigre Wrote:  It sounds like you want to spit the dummy, simply because a career doesn't fall into your lap once you graduate. Sorry you had to find out only at this late stage. For most people, it's always been like that.

Yeah your right, looking back at my post it seems to come off like if i'm complaining. I guess I am too much of an idealist and not enough of a realist at the moment. Iv'e also never thought about sending cold e-mails, I should give that a try.

@the_conductor- I want to be a picture editor, not a cinematographer, but the first way to get in that you mentioned is pretty much they way I have to go. Being a PA and running coffee and such. I have already accepted the fact that I might even have to volunteer in post production studios and not get paid for awhile.

To everyone else, my post was not to come off as complaining, If I came of as some kid crying about first world problems then I am sorry.

Watching the video "Music and Life - Allan Watts" on the thread "the great thing in life is coming" has helped me out too. I just gotta live in the moment, right now.

Post: #17

A degree is like a resume: It's only an opportunity to do something.

You gotta be hustling.

In college, I was waiting tables. During Spring Break, I worked full time hours rather than went to Cancun.

Today, I'm doing "OK."

Start your hustle NOW, while in college, with all that free time.

Come up with business ideas. Brain storm.

Find a legit crew.

The guys I came up with are all doing big things.

Don't hang with losers.

If someone has no motivation or hustle, evict him.

Don't waste your time chasing women.

Hustle.

Post: #18

What did you decide to do?

Post: #19

I am not associated with this but you can take a look at http://www.selloutyoursoul.com/how-to-fi...ays-ebook/

Post: #20

Finished at the end of 2011. Luckily it got me my current job although I don't value it as much these days when I hear about people doing a lot better without even using their degree, but as mentioned before it's an opportunity, it opens doors.

Post: #21

All I know is that video marketing is really huge online, and most folks STRUGGLE with it.

Journalists and English majors know how to write "epic" content, but they'd prefer to work some menial job.

I honestly can not think of a worthless degree. I would not have said that 5 years ago, cause my vision was quite limited.

All the traditional Arts and Liberal Arts degrees have a lot of opportunity on the web, because as we move all things industrial and technical to other places and vocational jobs here are getting deskilled - there's still a huge appetite for traditional IP.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were Social Science people starting to understand the new frontiers that web gives us and how to profit from it.

I can think of plenty of degrees where you can't be an employee, but most of which allow you to be an employer or at least self employed.

That being said, being in the business of art, you do more business than art. Same with the business of law. I do more on the business end than I do on the thing I was trained for. Only the "fortunate" get paid poorly to do the things that they were trained for, whilst the rest of us have to spend our time hustling to keep the lights on.

The second you get into management or an entrepreneurial role, that second you realize whatever endeavor you thought you were in, your real work is dealing with people.

WIA

Post: #22

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883617.html

2010 males annual income stats:

HS degree: 40k
BA: 64K

A huge, huge difference in disposable income. Imagine what saving 10k per year does for you in 20 years.

Why do people just believe urban legends and one or two of their friend's stories?
Because they don't understand how to find objective information.

Post: #23

I don't know if the OP is still reading this or not, but IMO, university doesn't make sense at all, unless you're dead set on doing something very technical where advanced studies are mandatory like law, medecine or accounting. Other than that, forget about that psychology, arts, literature, philosophy etc...Instead, and this is what I've been telling my younger cousins, is to head for a year to Alberta and work in the oil sand fields. Best case scenario: you'd develop a very highly paid skill. Worst case scenario: you'd spent one year working hard, making a shit ton of money that you can use as a capital for anything else you'd want (travel, business idea, buying a dope car or even a condo cash etc...). And there are a ton of info on it on this very forum!

Regarding the original question: Yep I also have a diploma on my wall in my room which is the most expensive yet most useless piece of paper in my life. And I have yet to use it one single day to date! When I see or hear of people getting into 50-80k student loan debts for a useless psychology, history, or literature or philosophy degree, it really makes my blood boil! What a sham!

Post: #24

For university being useful, it really just matters what you want out of life.

If you want a professional career, hands down university is the best choice because it gives you some credentials, hopefully some experience, and no one takes chances on people with just high school. The thing is professional careers often suck and your majors need to be technical, and have a designated route: nurse, doctor, lawyer, accountant, engineer.

You have to realize you're an idiot if you're taking history, english, film, religious studies, whatever. However if you don't go into debt things aren't so bad.

I went to university started out wanting to be an accountant, graduated with a BA in History and then became a salesman. Currently, on a different path. My degree may prove useful at some point down the road, but for now it served its purpose in getting me my first job, but will be useless here on in.

The things I learned in higher education weren't necessarily the things you expected to learn as an idealistic kid who thought you would find your passion and ideal career studying at a university. I learned to drink, go to class with a hangover, hit the gym hard, sleep with girls, do the least amount of work for the best grade, scam group projects, etc.

I do not regret going to university because it gave me the opportunity to seek out knowledge outside of the classroom because I wasn't learning shit inside of it. You begin to understand university is not a place for finding some magical revelation, your intellectual growth is up to you. But if you decide to go make sure you avoid debt, and have a game plan, or who can really end up feeling sorry for you?

Post: #25

Nobody's going to give you anything just because you have a piece of paper.

Once you graduate, it's you and your skills man.