Post: #1

Well, it’s official, guys. Tebow time is over in Denver. This was more than expected, you can’t have a QB who goes play by play, forget about a single drive or a whole game. I don’t see a line of NFL teams asking for Tebow’s services, so I guess his days as a starting QB are over, he may be the 2nd or 3rd QB, or maybe he can get into the the field every time his new team (if any) plays the wild cat formation, aside from that I don’t see something else for him.
As for Manning, he just changed horses (Colts for Broncos) and the chips are set for him. A solid and a good defense, a good o-line, and a good RB. I guess the Broncos would look for two more fronts in the draft, a full back, and maybe another wide receiver (I’d bet that Bellichick is more than willing to get rid of Chad Ochocinco). I think Manning has a good chance of having another shot at the Super Bowl in the next two, maybe three years, but no more.

Post: #2

Booooo i liked watching Tim...

Hopefully if he works with the right people in the bizz he can become a good starting quarterback

Post: #3

I live in Denver and everyone here is super excited and kinda sad at the same time. I like Tebow a lot, but everybody knew (even though tons of people wouldn't admit it) that his style of play would never work long term. It was a fun little show while it lasted, but Manning gives the Broncos an immediate shot at a Super Bowl although in a short window of time like you said.

Also, if Tebow ends up staying here, I really hope they run him out there in specific packages and situations like Florida use to do when he was a freshman.

Post: #4

Chances are Tebow is going to Miami, based on what I've heard from my guys in the sports world.

Post: #5

(03-19-2012 11:30 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  I guess the Broncos would look for two more fronts in the draft, a full back, and maybe another wide receiver

As a former college fullback myself, I can speak to the slow death that position has dealt with in recent years. The Broncos won't be looking for one, especially with Manning coming in and their building a new (likely pass oriented) offense around him.

As for Tebow, the guy gets a bad rap. Yeah, his stats were not ideal and he played unconventionally, but he took the Broncos much farther than many more "pro-ready" QBs have ever managed to take their teams. He's a good player and a highly marketable one to boot-someone will give him a shot somewhere down the line.

I'd have loved to see him in Jacksonville, but with the Henne signing that's unlikely to happen now.

Post: #6

I'd say that Manning would need a fullback because such a player could help in the tackling in the pocket and the screen pass, also if Manning is going to play no huddle drives. As much as John Fox could be tempted to have a long pass oriented offense, he knows that Manning is fragile and he needs a wide and open playbook. One more thing: Never, ever read John Elway's lips. During the Super Bowl broadcasting in Mexican TV. A Mexican reporter asked him:

-Let's talk about Tebow Time, you got your starting QB?
-I guess so, you know, we need to talk with him a little bit more, but it's almost done.

Well, as you can see it wasn't done, and the very minute John Irsay felt that Peyton was already too expensive for his franchise, Elway went on a rush to draft Eli Manning's brother. Man, wish I wanted Jerry Jones to be as intrepid as John Elway?

Post: #7

(03-20-2012 01:03 AM)Luvianka Wrote:  I'd say that Manning would need a fullback because such a player could help in the tackling in the pocket and the screen pass, also if Manning is going to play no huddle drives.

He's never used a true fullback before. The Colts almost never bothered to carry one while he was on the roster. They carried two this season, once it became clear that Peyton wasn't coming back. That isn't a coincidence.

What we're more likely to see is an H-Back, which is a hybrid tight end/fullback (though he looks and plays more like a receiving tight end). Manning has historically valued these (ex: Dallas Clark) for their ability to aid in the passing game and to block. The Broncos will be looking for one of these (maybe two), but a true fullback will not be a big part of their offense, assuming they keep one on the roster at all (they've got one under contract now and he's not guaranteed a spot). Manning will be leaning on the athletic tight end/h-back type to play that role.

I'd expect the tight ends to play a much bigger role in the Broncos offense in 2012 than they did with Tebow starting (he almost never threw to them).

Post: #8

The NFL represents old white men whom are reluctant to change. Tebow is only one year in and has gained tons of skill passing wise from college. He will never be Brady or Manning but the NFL haS to eventually accept and embrace this 'hybrid' QB that will be appearing more and more in the future. Tebow needs to land on a team that will aggressively go after Oregon's head coach and being him in to coach Tebow. The Broncos sabotaged Tebow to the point they blew a regular season game on purpose to try and "teach Tebow". Jon Fox and Elway we're to grumpy old white guys reluctant to change. Hopefully this will workout for Tebow and free him to a situation where football and front office have confidence to try and make the project work.

The very worst you get is Mike Vick pre-dog fight. The marginal you get is Donovan Mcnabb pre-superbowl, the best you get is Steve Young.

Tebow is a freak of nature. A solid QB coach and time is what he needs. Nobody should of drafted him so high to begin with tho.

Post: #9

Post: #10

Not concerned. Manning will probably die the first time he gets sacked.

Post: #11

I hope another team gives Tebow a shot. If he can improve his throwing mechanics, he can be a good starting QB. Dude already has more heart and leadership ability than plenty of NFL QBs.

Post: #12

(03-20-2012 06:13 AM)kosko Wrote:  The NFL represents old white men whom are reluctant to change. Tebow is only one year in and has gained tons of skill passing wise from college. He will never be Brady or Manning but the NFL haS to eventually accept and embrace this 'hybrid' QB that will be appearing more and more in the future. Tebow needs to land on a team that will aggressively go after Oregon's head coach and being him in to coach Tebow. The Broncos sabotaged Tebow to the point they blew a regular season game on purpose to try and "teach Tebow". Jon Fox and Elway we're to grumpy old white guys reluctant to change. Hopefully this will workout for Tebow and free him to a situation where football and front office have confidence to try and make the project work.

The very worst you get is Mike Vick pre-dog fight. The marginal you get is Donovan Mcnabb pre-superbowl, the best you get is Steve Young.

Tebow is a freak of nature. A solid QB coach and time is what he needs. Nobody should of drafted him so high to begin with tho.

It's a passing game and Tebow is not a passer.

As you said yourself, he is a project. I feel that's being generous but why should an owner wait years in the hope he may become decent one day, when it's just as likely he will not.

Saying that, I have a feeling the Manning signing is going to be a mistake.

Post: #13

tebow should go to raiders they don't care about winning anyways

Post: #14

Tebow was was most hated on athlete in the NFL which in turn overrated the rest of the Denver broncos team because he got 0 credit for turning around that team. Stats wise Denver was garbage on defense in every category imaginable but everyone keeps saying that they have great defense. Their running game were garbage the first 5 games of the season before Tebow took over and it turned into the #1 rushing attack in the league.

Manning is probably dumb enough to believe that he is coming to a team that is only missing a QB when in fact he will have little support.

Post: #15

Yes Tebow is a product but coaches and GMs need to adapt! The most successful teams in the NFL today do things "different" from the rest. The Patriots are so successful because they build there team with scraps, they spread the money and effort around finding parts other teams miss look at the rag-tag defense they we're able to ride to the SB, look at how inconsistent their wide-outs were all year .. Still successful.

Tebow wins games. Period. Its a matter of Coaches and GMs not being so but hurt to change their 'system'. He has only played one year, nobody put this critique on Matt Stafford whom has slowly become a legitimate QB in the league. What about Eli, he was trash for his first few years now look. Pro sports is to impatient now-days. Scouts who drooled over this kid now are reluctant to spend time fine tuning him. Tebow isn't dumb he knows he has to throw. People must not of seen him in College because many throws he made last year he couldn't do for the Gators.

As far as Manning picking Denver its awkward but Denver has historically been a O-line farm. Their elusive line-men are always top notch. Plus I think Manning wanted the challenge of running a quick offense in the thin air of mile high (plus thin air is supposedly better for rejuvenation? Steve Nash re creates this atmosphere while training in the off-season).

Post: #16

Post: #17

"The very worst you get is Mike Vick pre-dog fight. The marginal you get is Donovan Mcnabb pre-superbowl, the best you get is Steve Young."

I think people make the mistake of comparing Tebow with other mobile QBs. The Vick comparison might be the most accurate, but even Vick was miles ahead of Tebow as a passer AND athlete when he came into the NFL, even though he was primarily a runner. Vick has one of the strongest arms in the league, and throws one of the tightest balls. He just wasn't very accurate early in his career, because he admitted later on that he didn't do film work or work on that part of his game. Tebow is primarily a runner that simply is a poor thrower, both technically (form), and in terms of his accuracy.
Also, Tebow is WAY behind in terms of reading defenses and executing a pro offense. Denver had to install a college offense to accomodate him, which both Fox and Elway hated, but were forced to do because they HAD to play him and utilize his strengths to win some games. Donovan McNabb was a MOBILE QB that could make plays with his feet if needed, but wasn't looking to run. Steve Young was also a mobile/scrambling type, but came out of one of the most prolific passing systems in college (BYU QBs always rung up big numbers), so he was way ahead of Tebow as a passer also. Tebow was an outstanding college football player, but he was primarily a runner. His passing stats are deceptive, in that he completed short passes to wide open receivers in college. A lot of those yards were yards-after-the-catch by the receiver (just like the playoff game against Pittsburgh). Many of those TD passes were inside the 10/15 yard line, or those goal-line "jump passes." I've always seen Tebow as a fullback that can throw a little. He simply isn't a pro QB. A team has to install an antiquated college offense to accomodate him, and it's really hard to win a Superbowl that way. I know the aura around him attracts lots of fans, and he's a great guy. That will sell a lot of jerseys, but I don't think a team that hopes to win titles can do it by constantly trying to cover his weaknesses with the hope he'll grow into a semi-competent passer. I don't see a huge market for him as a QB at all, and definitely not as a starter.

Post: #18

"As far as Manning picking Denver its awkward but Denver has historically been a O-line farm. Their elusive line-men are always top notch. Plus I think Manning wanted the challenge of running a quick offense in the thin air of mile high (plus thin air is supposedly better for rejuvenation? Steve Nash re creates this atmosphere while training in the off-season)."

This was definitely true under Mike Shanahan. Many opponents accused the Denver O-line, and the techniques they employed as being borderline dirty - blocks that were technically legal, but they went low on guys. Lineman are sensitive to blocks at or below the knees. It was a more finesse blocking scheme than power. They seem to still block effectively under Fox, but a lot of that may have been because Tebow had defenses on their heels and spread out, so there were more holes created for runners.

Post: #19

"Tebow wins games. Period. Its a matter of Coaches and GMs not being so but hurt to change their 'system'. He has only played one year, nobody put this critique on Matt Stafford whom has slowly become a legitimate QB in the league. What about Eli, he was trash for his first few years now look. Pro sports is to impatient now-days. Scouts who drooled over this kid now are reluctant to spend time fine tuning him. Tebow isn't dumb he knows he has to throw. People must not of seen him in College because many throws he made last year he couldn't do for the Gators."

You're right. There is less patience in the NFL with QBs now, but a lot of that is because of the money they are paying high draft picks at QB. No team can hope to build a champion without at least a competent player at the position. You can't afford to waste a lot of time if a guy doesn't progress as quickly as you'd like. You have to get out from under that money commitment as quick as you can.

On the flip side, you can't use guys like Stafford and Manning to make this point. Those players were legitimate passing QBs at the college level. They had the physical skill set to succeed at the NFL level, so the only learning curve is learning the intricacies of your team's offense, and learning to read defenses. Tebow doesn't have the minimum skill set in terms of technique, and he's even further behind those guys in terms of being able to run an NFL offense or read defenses. Even most COLLEGES don't run the offense Denver had to install to accommodate him, and there's a reason for that - you can't win a title running it. Historically, QBs and receivers out of Florida don't become stars in the NFL. They are journeymen at best, because the offenses they run there aren't compatible to pro-style offenses. Even their most physically talented PASSERS don't seem to transition well to the NFL, and Tebow didn't really throw at all in college. Cam Newton was a run/pass QB at Auburn, but as you can see, he still had great passing tools/technique, and was able to come right out of the gate and put up 400 yard passing games. Yes, he threw some interceptions too, but young passers will always throw interceptions. In recent seasons you've seen rookie QBs like Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Mark Sanchez, Andy Dalton etc. get to the playoffs immediately, and Newton and Stafford pass for HUGE numbers really early in their careers. Even Sam Bradford came up just a game short in his rookie year in St. Louis of getting his team into the playoffs. It's upped the ante for all young QBs I'll admit, but all of those guys could run pro offenses right away. It was unfair to John Fox and John Elway to have to use an antiquated college offense to allow a professional QB to be able to play. Most top college programs run pro-style passing offenses now, as the game has advanced past the wishbone offense.

Post: #20

I get the bashing on Tebow due to lack of certain skills. But look at what he's done in one partial season: took a team that no one expected to go anywhere into the playoffs and beat a team no one expected them to beat. The guy has shown more leadership and heart than many QBs, and he doesn't even have a full season under his belt.

He's an athlete that came from a totally different style of offense. I think that under the right tutelage he might develop the passing skills - both in terms of technique and reading defenses. That stuff you can teach provided you have a student with the requisite physical ability (check) and right attitude (check). You can't teach leadership; you can't teach heart.

Post: #21

Quote:It was unfair to John Fox and John Elway to have to use an antiquated college offense to allow a professional QB to be able to play. Most top college programs run pro-style passing offenses now, as the game has advanced past the wishbone offense.

The SEC is a bit of anomaly when it comes to this but generally they have ridiculously good defenses. And for the most part the other conferences produce many more pro QB's while the SEC has a lot of game managers with poor arms/accuracy.

For comparison, I doubt Tebow would have even started at Wisconsin whereas he won the Heisman at Florida. This is due to the fact one runs a pro style while the other is the old school college game.

A lot of Tebow's success this year came against bad teams and the offense they ran was odd. Once defense's game plan for it he's done unless he can learn to throw the ball.

Post: #22

Manning has a weak neck, he is a great QB but who knows how long he will last. Teebow is good for now.

Post: #23

Yes, much of Tebow's success came as a result of a perfect storm of circumstances. Yes, he has all of the intangibles. He can lead and motivate. But it can't be a case of one or the other - a QB needs to be a leader with the requisite skills. You can learn some of the things he needs to learn, but you don't have the luxury of starting a guy while he learns basic QB skills. Tebow is a project, and should never have been drafted in the first round (management gave Josh McDaniels too much power over the draft. They never should have traded Jay Cutler, no matter how much whining he did). You shouldn't have to teach a guy to throw properly at the NFL level. He should have that part mastered by then. Remember...he wasn't projected to go early at all in the draft, because just about every GM and coach in the league knew he was a project at best. Yes, they love his intangibles, but if you're going to take a QB in the first round, you need a guy that's ready to play the position the way professionals play it. Also, the Broncos play in the most mediocre division in the league at the moment. Three teams were tied at 8-8. As fun as it was to see him do what he did, there was a lot of luck involved. Broncos management knew they would be hardpressed to duplicate that over the course of another season. If a team wants to pick him up and try to coach him up in practice, great. But there's too much pressure to win to start a guy that's a project, no matter what his intangibles. His teammates had his back publicly, but at a certain point they can't continue to back him if he's going to be bouncing throws at their feet constantly. Guys will only follow someone that can really play, no matter how great a guy he is.

Post: #24

(03-20-2012 09:55 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Manning has a weak neck, he is a great QB but who knows how long he will last. Teebow is good for now.

Manning's neck is actually fine now. The real problem was the nerve regeneration that affected his tricep in his throwing arm. According to everyone that's worked him out, he can sling it just fine. He faces no greater risk of injury now than any other QB. That being said, the Broncos need to keep him upright, just like any other team must do if they want to be successful. Truthfully, the best scenario would be to keep Tebow and have him watch, study and learn at the knee of one of the best to ever play. Denver management wants him gone because Elway/Fox didn't draft him. They obviously don't have the patience to develop him, and keeping him around would be a circus at this point. Also, it's hard keeping a guy on the roster that you demoted. Through no fault of his own, he's a polarizing figure. They think it's better to let him go somewhere else to develop.

Post: #25

I'm just glad we have Rodgers.