Post: #1

Hey all, this is my first post, and I'd like to share some of my thoughts and experiences and, if you like, feel free to give me your input.

My night game mostly consists of bars and clubs for the most part, like so many of you (the house party thing ended after college for the most part (I was most successful with women in the house party environment)). I pretty much always go out solo now. Lately I have been going out at night about 3 times a week. I have noticed a few things regarding night venues:

- The bars with dance floors and very loud music tend to have the youngest and hottest women. Despite never really having a lot of success at clubs and bars I have had the most in the drunken dance floor because it's easier to mingle, but, even here I have never been able to really pull (just makeouts, and brought a pair of chicks home who weren't down for anything). The downside with going to these places is that I know I am damaging my hearing because I get ringing in my ears afterwards (tinnitus) that eventually gets better/hardly noticeable, but, I am afraid that going to these venues might not be worth it if it means permanent hearing damage. I suppose tinnitus just something that all guys have to eventually deal with if they go out enough to bars/nigh clubs with loud music.

- The bars that are fairly quiet don't have the hottest girls. They are seated and after each shutdown by a women your value goes down a little bit in the eyes of other women who may have watched the interaction (who you may also be interested in). I like these bars because they aren't so loud and it's actually possible to talk with others but again they don't have the hottest/youngest girls.

All the women in these establishments are really "cliquey." The just go to dance/drink with their friends or boyfriend, or so it seems to me.

My background: I'm 30 now, been studying game for about 14 years or so, but haven't always put enough effort into it. It was just about a year ago, for example, that I started seriously cold approaching strangers. I tried it around a college campus, once in a mall, etc. I created a spreadsheet. I approached about 45 women or so, got a handful of numbers, none of it panned out; most of the numbers were fakes.

I decided that cold approaching, at least the way I was doing it, was too much work. Now I usually just say hi to them, make some comment about what they are doing, ask them a question, or comment on the weather (or something) (e.g. when standing on a line at the coffee shop I may say, "it looks like it will never stop raining"). I think Roosh does something similar with the elderly openers from what I have read.

And that's all the initial effort I usually put into the interaction after the approach and opener. Then, in my mind, it is up to her to carry the interaction forward if she is interested. I don't do a lot of rambling. I also screen heavily for eye contact and proximity flirtation.

Since on the cold approaches we all experience very high rejection rates I have found just saying something simple conveys enough interest without me seeming needy and without going through rejection. My emotions are not easily hurt, believe it or not, but I believe that psychologically, no matter how strong a man's frame is, he will get messed up mentally after hundreds of more blatant/obvious rejections, even if it does lead to a couple lays. But with a very subtle show of interest, yet, while showing enough interest to make it clear to her that you are being flirty, the rejection isn't very bad. To me the rejection is a lot worse if I engage in too much rambling to try to get her interested/attracted to me (but this is just my personal take), and this makes interacting with female strangers not fun and a drag.

Most of my focus now is on putting myself around women and not doing a ton of outright work/pursuing to get the girl. As aforementioned I will open but not do much afterwards; they have to put work into the interaction (e.g. asking my questions, etc.). When I think of my past bangs it was the girl put in 45-60% of the initial work in the interaction (I would say it was more like 55% on average) and often initiated the interaction herself.

He or she which is the least interested holds the most amount of power in the interaction/relationship.

My game has also started to evolve to focus more and more on leveraging a woman's hypergamous nature, so talk myself up/talk about my credentials/exaggerate my job, etc.

Another observation: beta orbiter social circle style game works the best for the hottest of chicks. These girls don’t meet guys over the internet, they are dealing with too many guys as it is. They don’t meet guys at clubs or bars for the most part but it is not unheard of. They usually meet their b/f’s in college or through the workplace or though social circle. The orbiter stands a chance if he waits in the weeds until her b/f and her break up, or he can indirectly pry her relationship open over time until she is single again.

The more attractive a woman is the LESS slutty she is; she does not HAVE to be slutty and if she is it works against her goals (getting commitment). (As it is the median American women has about 7 lifetime partners (give or take a few), according to what I have read.) The 9s-10′s rarely partake in one-night stands not only because they don’t have to but their relative reduced amount of testosterone (compared to other women) makes them less horny yet also more feminine, which is what made them 9-10′s in the first place. Conversely a fat blob can only offer up her slimy hole and oftentimes they are so happy to just have male attention/a guy to bang that they will bang nearly anyone.

Post: #2

I'm in the same exact boat as you: approx same age, and after college it's been hard to meet 'decent' women. i.e. I'm not really into the 22 year old FB floozy anymore, but am seeking something with a little more substance.

I agree with you about your observations of bars/clubs, at least in my town (a small college town in the South): the hottest club girls go to the very loud clubs and have their cliques. The lower-key places (which I grossly prefer for the atmosphere and music) don't have a lot of pretty girls.

It's definitely about using your social circle to meet attractive and decent, IME. My workplace is a small company so I don't have many colleagues I can utilize, but as I've gotten involved my social circle is expanding as is my network of girls. I signed up for CrossFit to meet new people, and I've gotten in touch with a few people who I lost contact with over the years via Facebook. I suggest grabbing a drink with a few of their friends, or ask if they're having a get-together where there will be some single girls.

The biggest thing I have to deal with is dealing with the "I want it now!" mentality. It's true: I want a smokin hot girl friend right now. The truth of the matter is its a slow process that takes a lot of time.

Post: #3

What are some ideas for expanding into social networks with very good looking women? Especially for guys in their 30s.

I know work can be good if you have the type of job that brings you into contact with lots of new people. But for some of us the nature of our work has us in solitude.

Post: #4

I would suggest activity-based classes...

- CrossFit or the bootcamp-type training classes.
- Drawing class if offered by art school or Continuing Ed at a college
- Professional organizations (work-based)

I think the thing to realize is that these many not DIRECTLY put u in touch with good-looking women, but will introduce you to many new faces where your new friends will know many hot women (especially the exercise-based ones) and they would be happy to introduce you to them over cocktails.

Post: #5

HiFlo offers some good suggestions; hot yoga may be worth considering as well. Beer and wine tasting events are good if you are into that. I am thinking of going to some charity events (women with money) to do a little reconnaissance but I think a lot of the women there may be way too old.

Post: #6

There's a lot of truth to what you say, and I've often felt that ACCESS can be the biggest factor in how much you get pussy, but it seems to fall on deaf ears here and elsewhere. If you've got decent money, looks, game, Access is going to account for a huge proportion of the 'variance' among men. You can find men of roughly equivalent money, looks and game, and they have *wildly* different results. Because one, say, works in fashion and another is a construction engineer.

You want to be in a part of town where people are less rooted, where it's not full of people who have been living there for decades with rich social networks to show for it. I live in a fairly insular area, and the only social circles easily entered have little available talent. Also, girls 26 and older tend to be more open to strangers, if only because their options have diminished and more of their friends are in relationships. There also may be girls in certain industries where it is hard to meet men, so they're more open to meeting strange men like yourself - I have fucked several girls in fashion, and I think that is definitely a helping factor with these chicks.

I don't necessarily agree about 9s-10s being slutty, they're just slutty in a different way. They may bang a guy quickly, but it's more likely she's known him for some time before. And because she's hot, she has a much better chance of making him into a boyfriend. Young girls, hot or not, are often just not looking for a committed relationship, even with a high value guy.

I still haven't cracked this problem much though. The girls I'd do best with, the ones I find most desirable, cute upper middle class white girls, are among the most insular. So it's something I think about. Also, these girls *want* to meet a man through their friends - for a cute girl, that is the #1 preferred route. I've said to some of my friends, that when you meet a girl at a social circle type event, there's this default assumption that you are of equal value to her, as opposed to approaching her at a bar. So if you are above the average of the men at that event, you're doing pretty well.

Post: #7

"Also, girls 26 and older tend to be more open to strangers, if only because their options have diminished and more of their friends are in relationships."

Indeed, I find a distinct demographic delineation at that age:

http://badgerhut.wordpress.com/2011/07/0...ne-dating/

As to 1lettuce’s case, there are several interesting factors. First, she’s 26, which means she’s probably just crossed a major threshold of young adult life. In my experience as a young adult and observing same, the age of 25 is something of a line of demarcation. Lots (and lots) of 25-and-under youth are still living in a college mindset. They mostly socialize with people of the same age, spend an inordinate amount of time happy-hour drinking, crashing on couches, simmering in existentially pointless pseudo-angst. They get self-reinforcing advice from each other and so make the same mistakes a bunch of times. Due to lack of experience in the real world they lack the knowledge to form realistic long-term goals and the wisdom to drive forward on those goals. This is without even mentioning their romantic relationship skills. It’s not a knock, it’s just the way it is.

Those who get married focus on friend groups of other marrieds, where age is less important than the fact you’re married; you wind up having brunch with Janet’s officemate and her life partner, or golfing with Gary’s boss and the boss’ wife who makes those awesome cookies he brings into the office every Monday. (This process goes double if you have kids.) Those who don’t marry widen their friend groups to include the other singles who haven’t been snapped up, and also acquire mentor-mentee relationships in work life. It’s apparent by that age who have gotten serious about their careers. In any case, people tend to get a lot more comfortable widening the age range of their social group.

Post: #8

"Young girls, hot or not, are often just not looking for a committed relationship, even with a high value guy."

This is one thing young guys REALLY need to understand, one of the biggest blue-pill lies out there. A lot of young girls just want to spend some time with a guy, have a good bang, maybe party a little bit with him, and not get all bent out of shape about long-term commitment and planning for the future.

This idea that young women only do casual sex as a desperate strategy to snag an alpha boyfriend is just such demonstrable nonsense.

Post: #9

(04-02-2012 01:27 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  This idea that young women only do casual sex as a desperate strategy to snag an alpha boyfriend is just such demonstrable nonsense.

That's a pretty common idea even here on the forums, that women of all ages want to snag an alpha. Maybe that's true of the alphiest alpha that ever alpha-ed, but plenty of young girls I meet and see, including on OKCupid, are quite content with loose relationships with men. They want to have fun and not think about it.

When I go to the loud places that the OP mentioned, that young girls love, the girls don't even want to *bang* per se. They want to party, and once the party dies down, only then will banging commence. If you try and bang before that, or indicate as much, there's a good chance you'll come off as a creeper. I encountered this in college, for instance, if I tried taking a girl home before the bars closed by offering the prospect of just going home with me to my bedroom. For these girls the *partying* is their #1 priority.

I used to think 25 was the turning point, but it's at least 26 now, possibly 27, especially for the chicks going to graduate school. Dalrock hit it out of the park on this one - I had never really connected why it happens at this age. But Dalrock's explanation, in my opinion, is self-evidently correct. Basically, women only start having real relationships when they're mentally ready to get married. The typical woman doesn't reach that state until she's 26 or so. Dalrock cites a median age of marriage at 26.5 for 2011, but that sounds a little low - the US is pretty variable, so that includes a lot of more socially conservative types who have little overlap with the biddies we're macking.

Which is kind of ironic. Women will explain why their relationships in their early 20's failed, for various reasons, but I'm starting to think they just decided they didn't want to settle down that early, so the vag took flight. It makes a farce of romance, that the man they marry is not the best man or the right man, but the man with the well-timed arrival. But as a player, you knew that instinctually - chicks don't logically choose who to sleep with, they sleep with Mr. #1, whoever that is at that moment, given favorable logistics.

I'm thinking of a couple female single coworkers who are past 26, and it's clear they never gave up the 'single lifestyle,' they never gave up the 'party.' And that's why they're still single. Like their younger sisters, they aren't willing to make men a priority. So any time a man poses a challenge to her other, bigger priorities (career, partying aka girls night out aka freedom) will precede him. Sure, they'll bitch and moan about how guys won't commit, but meanwhile they're still banging fuck buddies, making themselves unavailable to men, not actively looking for mates, etc.

Post: #10

(04-02-2012 01:27 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  This idea that young women only do casual sex as a desperate strategy to snag an alpha boyfriend is just such demonstrable nonsense.

Well, you need to take into account the typical audience who believes in this kind of nonsense. Not surprisingly those seem to be exclusively people with little to no relationship experience. Which also makes me wonder whether they unconsciously avoid this kind of experience to protect their egos. Think of it: expecting a chick to fall in love with his dominating behavior but finding out she was just used him for her own pleasure might be a tough blow to one's mind.

Post: #11

(04-02-2012 02:12 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(04-02-2012 01:27 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  This idea that young women only do casual sex as a desperate strategy to snag an alpha boyfriend is just such demonstrable nonsense.

Well, you need to take into account the typical audience who believes in this kind of nonsense. Not surprisingly those seem to be exclusively people with little to no relationship experience. Which also makes me wonder whether they unconsciously avoid this kind of experience to protect their egos. Think of it: expecting a chick to fall in love with his dominating behavior but finding out she was just used him for her own pleasure might be a tough blow to one's mind.

I actually thought about starting a thread discussing this. Sometimes I feel like nothing more than a human dildo to these girls. Yes, I'm fucking them, they're enjoying it, and so on. But there's no real connection. There's no sense that I'm not disposable. I could be any other handsome devil with a little sass, it wouldn't matter much. Call me soft, but I do enjoy having a personal connection with a girl. But it's a total fool's errand to try for one if she doesn't initiate it. The man escalates physically, and it falls on the woman to escalate romantically, as attachments go.

Even when these girls do genuinely want a boyfriend, it's clear it's for the perks of having one. It's a calculated decision that it's something they want, something that will enhance their life. It's not "I really like this guy and enjoy spending time with him." It's "I want a partner so I can do things I enjoy with someone else."

Post: #12

so there's this girl i'm supposed to hang out with. she's about 20 or so. we're talking, and she feels the need to bring up the fact that she's going to bible study later (i.e., good girl promotion).

why would she say that?

Post: #13

(04-01-2012 02:38 PM)R_B Wrote:  My emotions are not easily hurt, believe it or not, but I believe that psychologically, no matter how strong a man's frame is, he will get messed up mentally after hundreds of more blatant/obvious rejections, even if it does lead to a couple lays.

I'm pretty sure at this moment that this depends on how your brain is wired, and no matter what you do you cannot change it. This is one of the conclusions I've got from the bootcamp I took. To cope up with that you must be able to shut down completely your analytical part of brain. If you can do it, you can become an approach machine. If you cannot, you will not. The conclusion most people seem to end the bootcamp with is "that's much easier than I thought" followed by either "and that's really cool" or "but this is such waste of time".

Post: #14

The reason that a lot of relationships fail during 20s (and even more fail before that) is because the people here in US still change significantly at that age. So when you enter into relationship with someone after a year or two you might find yourself in a relationship with a very different person, who are you might not really want to be in a relationship with. This is different, for example, with Asia or Russia where the people get into the "mature" mode much earlier (early to mid 20s) and don't change significantly after that.

Post: #15

(04-02-2012 02:48 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(04-01-2012 02:38 PM)R_B Wrote:  My emotions are not easily hurt, believe it or not, but I believe that psychologically, no matter how strong a man's frame is, he will get messed up mentally after hundreds of more blatant/obvious rejections, even if it does lead to a couple lays.

I'm pretty sure at this moment that this depends on how your brain is wired, and no matter what you do you cannot change it. This is one of the conclusions I've got from the bootcamp I took. To cope up with that you must be able to shut down completely your analytical part of brain. If you can do it, you can become an approach machine. If you cannot, you will not. The conclusion most people seem to end the bootcamp with is "that's much easier than I thought" followed by either "and that's really cool" or "but this is such waste of time".

I used to be a hardcore approach guy, but my strategy has shifted. I know this sounds counter-intuitive, but I have found that I actually do better in many settings when I don't talk to a girl first and instead let her lead the initial interactions. So in a way I am not pursuing but I am going out of my way to be around women. When I give off an aura of indifference they will occasionally pursue me. I do this type of game hardcore in social circle settings especially, where I know the women will be able to see me again. Even at bars and clubs I am starting to do this now and I think it helps create the vibe of being a high value guy who is not needy. Let's say you are at a bar, and 5 out of 50 women are interested in you. Let's say as a guy you randomly start approaching 20 women or so, well, those 5 women who are interested in you will likely see a lot of rejections, lowering your value in her eyes, and they may become disinterested. On the other hand if you sit back and let them come to you, while having a great time, you can let them know you are a high value guy.

When I do my openers, with heavy screening for eye contact and other body signals, and with minimal rambling, it is usually in daytime settings where I know I won't see the woman again. Even though I won't see many of the women again in nighttime settings, the situation seems different because the women feel like the setting is more conductive/appropriate for their approach.

When I think back to my relationships, the girl typically made it clear to me that she was interested before I even did anything. She chose me and initiated the conversation/flirtation and then I decided if she met my criteria; I often outright ignored her or was indifferent to her beforehand. One night stands were a little different though, and I could be more aggressive, but they are so few and far between for me that I would rather string multiple relationships along than put in a lot of work for one-nighters, personally. Further the quality of women I've had from one-night stands has been less than those I've been in relationships with, because the more attractive women have more options.

Post: #16

These should help save your eardrums.

Post: #17

(04-02-2012 02:40 AM)basilransom Wrote:  I actually thought about starting a thread discussing this. Sometimes I feel like nothing more than a human dildo to these girls. Yes, I'm fucking them, they're enjoying it, and so on. But there's no real connection. There's no sense that I'm not disposable. I could be any other handsome devil with a little sass, it wouldn't matter much. Call me soft, but I do enjoy having a personal connection with a girl.

Yep. This is the price you have to pay for a hookup. It is very difficult to make a real personal connection in a few hours while keeping it light enough for the hookup. The solution seem to be easy - make the conversation deeper so you can develop the connection and trust. However people would say that this typically breaks the hookup - as soon as you try to deepen the conversation, the girl loses the interest and the pickup dies.

And obviously you know why she does that. She does it because she knows talking about those deep topics has a chance to develop the personal connection. But she does not want it. She just want you as a dildo. As a roissynites say it, "she wants an alpha dick". And this is true. What they don't typically say is that she doesn't want anything else from him besides the dick. The party girl does not want developing a personal connection with you, it is more like "new dick! get in position! fuck me! next!" There is nothing wrong with that. You have fun, she has fun, that's good enough. As long as you don't make a mistake of extrapolating your "success" ("luck" may be a more proper word here) further - a common mistake of roissy types - you'll be fine.

Now about developing a personal connection with such a party girl. It is possible, but takes effort. You must postpone all the connection topics until you fuck her. Pop up some (not too much) after the first time, and pop all the way up after the second time. And the third time you'll fuck someone who you developed the good personal connection with, and then something else might come with that. The key here to watch is to her behavior after you had sex the first time - if she's hurrying up to get away from you, forget about it.

Quote:Even when these girls do genuinely want a boyfriend, it's clear it's for the perks of having one. It's a calculated decision that it's something they want, something that will enhance their life.

Vast majority of the decisions women make are calculated. Men are much more emotion-driven creatures than most women. This is why I smile when a self-proclaimed "alpha male with tight game" tells me how a girl would so much fall in love with his alpha dick that she'd take any kind of shit and will come back asking for more. Women do not work this way, history is full of women who loved one guy but married another one, and had his kids, and took care of him when he was sick, and lived a rather happy life. This is why vacation cheating is spontaneous and meaningless, but an affair is a calculated decision and typically means the death of the relationship.

Post: #18

(04-02-2012 03:10 AM)R_B Wrote:  Even at bars and clubs I am starting to do this now and I think it helps create the vibe of being a high value guy who is not needy. Let's say you are at a bar, and 5 out of 50 women are interested in you. Let's say as a guy you randomly start approaching 20 women or so, well, those 5 women who are interested in you will likely see a lot of rejections, lowering your value in her eyes, and they may become disinterested. On the other hand if you sit back and let them come to you, while having a great time, you can let them know you are a high value guy.

You actually described what I've been doing for a while now much better than I'd do it myself. Respect.

Indeed if you're someone who is comfortable being out alone (and I actually prefer going out alone) and don't even need the company to feel good, why would you artificially create it? The only thing I can add for those who want to try it is that you still need to be approachable. And I am not talking about sitting in the dark corner reading the book - this in fact might bring you some approaches. I'm talking about the cases, when for example I brought a guitar into Karaoke bar and played it while singing; things like that boost up your value so much that it would scare the women away from you.

Post: #19

(04-01-2012 02:38 PM)R_B Wrote:  Hey all, this is my first post, and I'd like to share some of my thoughts and experiences and, if you like, feel free to give me your input.

My night game mostly consists of bars and clubs for the most part, like so many of you (the house party thing ended after college for the most part (I was most successful with women in the house party environment)). I pretty much always go out solo now. Lately I have been going out at night about 3 times a week. I have noticed a few things regarding night venues:

- The bars with dance floors and very loud music tend to have the youngest and hottest women. Despite never really having a lot of success at clubs and bars I have had the most in the drunken dance floor because it's easier to mingle, but, even here I have never been able to really pull (just makeouts, and brought a pair of chicks home who weren't down for anything). The downside with going to these places is that I know I am damaging my hearing because I get ringing in my ears afterwards (tinnitus) that eventually gets better/hardly noticeable, but, I am afraid that going to these venues might not be worth it if it means permanent hearing damage. I suppose tinnitus just something that all guys have to eventually deal with if they go out enough to bars/nigh clubs with loud music.

- The bars that are fairly quiet don't have the hottest girls. They are seated and after each shutdown by a women your value goes down a little bit in the eyes of other women who may have watched the interaction (who you may also be interested in). I like these bars because they aren't so loud and it's actually possible to talk with others but again they don't have the hottest/youngest girls.

All the women in these establishments are really "cliquey." The just go to dance/drink with their friends or boyfriend, or so it seems to me.

My background: I'm 30 now, been studying game for about 14 years or so, but haven't always put enough effort into it. It was just about a year ago, for example, that I started seriously cold approaching strangers. I tried it around a college campus, once in a mall, etc. I created a spreadsheet. I approached about 45 women or so, got a handful of numbers, none of it panned out; most of the numbers were fakes.

I decided that cold approaching, at least the way I was doing it, was too much work. Now I usually just say hi to them, make some comment about what they are doing, ask them a question, or comment on the weather (or something) (e.g. when standing on a line at the coffee shop I may say, "it looks like it will never stop raining"). I think Roosh does something similar with the elderly openers from what I have read.

And that's all the initial effort I usually put into the interaction after the approach and opener. Then, in my mind, it is up to her to carry the interaction forward if she is interested. I don't do a lot of rambling. I also screen heavily for eye contact and proximity flirtation.

Since on the cold approaches we all experience very high rejection rates I have found just saying something simple conveys enough interest without me seeming needy and without going through rejection. My emotions are not easily hurt, believe it or not, but I believe that psychologically, no matter how strong a man's frame is, he will get messed up mentally after hundreds of more blatant/obvious rejections, even if it does lead to a couple lays. But with a very subtle show of interest, yet, while showing enough interest to make it clear to her that you are being flirty, the rejection isn't very bad. To me the rejection is a lot worse if I engage in too much rambling to try to get her interested/attracted to me (but this is just my personal take), and this makes interacting with female strangers not fun and a drag.

Most of my focus now is on putting myself around women and not doing a ton of outright work/pursuing to get the girl. As aforementioned I will open but not do much afterwards; they have to put work into the interaction (e.g. asking my questions, etc.). When I think of my past bangs it was the girl put in 45-60% of the initial work in the interaction (I would say it was more like 55% on average) and often initiated the interaction herself.

He or she which is the least interested holds the most amount of power in the interaction/relationship.

My game has also started to evolve to focus more and more on leveraging a woman's hypergamous nature, so talk myself up/talk about my credentials/exaggerate my job, etc.

Another observation: beta orbiter social circle style game works the best for the hottest of chicks. These girls don’t meet guys over the internet, they are dealing with too many guys as it is. They don’t meet guys at clubs or bars for the most part but it is not unheard of. They usually meet their b/f’s in college or through the workplace or though social circle. The orbiter stands a chance if he waits in the weeds until her b/f and her break up, or he can indirectly pry her relationship open over time until she is single again.

The more attractive a woman is the LESS slutty she is; she does not HAVE to be slutty and if she is it works against her goals (getting commitment). (As it is the median American women has about 7 lifetime partners (give or take a few), according to what I have read.) The 9s-10′s rarely partake in one-night stands not only because they don’t have to but their relative reduced amount of testosterone (compared to other women) makes them less horny yet also more feminine, which is what made them 9-10′s in the first place. Conversely a fat blob can only offer up her slimy hole and oftentimes they are so happy to just have male attention/a guy to bang that they will bang nearly anyone.

I'm not sure what city you're in but venue selection is always important. My experience in clubs in L.A. is that social game is crucial. Which is torturous, seeing the packs of 8s and 9s walking around in slutty club gear and some of them are just downright unapproachable. I've found that having female wings is highly valuable in the high end club environment, and having a hookup or knowing a promoter is crucial. Clubs (and when I say clubs, I'm talking exclusive high end clubs that run a tough door, and thus attract the hottest girls) are a hierarchy game, and if I can't waltz past the doorman with a couple cute girls on my arm, I wouldn't even waste my time.

On the other hand there are plenty of bars with the dynamic you described. Girls are frumpier, most likely there to relax and chug a beer and listen to her retard fat friend complain about her life. It's quieter and more conducive to conversation and you're more likely to build deeper connections. However, ratios vary wildly, and most nights it's a cockfest with the occasional godsend girl-positive ratio.

What I shoot for most these days is something in between these two venues. You want a high end bar or lounge that has the club environment, but is probably lacking a dance floor or if there is a dance floor it's not the main draw. In L.A. I can think of many places that fit this description. G Manifesto has plenty of detailed posts about this topic, where to meet fly girls etc. Girls still dress in the slutty club gear, they're still 8s and 9s, the door can still be tough to get in, but it's not that over-the-top blaring trance music mindfuck. Girls at these venues pretend to be more sophisticated and revel in the superficial glamor and glitz, so act accordingly. The more you can pull the playboy schtick the better. As long as you're dressed to kill, willing to throw down $15 per drink, and are in the right social mindset, you can do quite well and the girls are more receptive than they would be in a club.

Post: #20

^^ What venues did you have in mind that have that ideal balance?

Post: #21

I've endorsed it before and I'll do it again: Skybar. They do tend to run a tight door, especially weekends. I know a doorman there who will let me in on weekdays but even on weekends he'll tell me I need a girl to get in. I have a handful of platonic girlfriends for this very reason.

Go to Skybar on Friday or Saturday and you'll see great talent and a great ratio. It's *slightly* older than further down in Hollywood. I don't bother with Hollywood anymore (Drai's, Eden, MyStudio, Playhouse) but the scene is definitely younger if that's your thing. Honestly I would need to spend a few months in Hollywood to get that game back, those girls are just so fucking young and flaky, and i'm probably too lazy and cheap to do it. The great thing about Skybar and hotel lounges in general is that the majority of girls are from out of town which puts them in a much more open mindset. They're obviously there to meet people, either network, make friends, or fuck. I notice girls are very open to approaches there, and the mood is very relaxing and mellow, not some aggro club with roid heads in Affliction walking around. I never hesitate in approaching there for some reason, it's very conducive...you see a couple girls or a group on a couch or in a banquette and you can literally just sit in and join as if you were a part of the group, I've never had any rejection or pushback there. At the very least I've made some new friends and contacts if there was no sexual/attraction vibe.

I've got a hookup at Greystone Manor and it's still exclusive enough that there are packs of 8+ wandering around. SBE venues in general maintain a tight door so knowing a promoter is crucial. I haven't been to Sayer's club yet but it's supposed to be more chill, more of a lounge. I know a friend of a friend there so I could just go and report back.

The Standard can be good, not great. I highly recommend BOA on Sunset. It's a high end steakhouse with a great bar/lounge area. BOA attracts a lot of big shot corporate power players and the gold digging sluts that chase them. Like I said, dress sharp, know how to work that environment and you can do quite well there (I have).

I've had moderate pulls at Sean Macpherson venues (Jones, Roger Room, El Carmen) They're more casual, more fun actually, more my type of bars, but the talent slips a notch or two from the above mentioned venues. I've seen good ratios at both, and you will definitely see the occasional 8 or 9 there, but be prepared for "I have a boyfriend" or bitch shields or cockblocks etc. Most people go to these venues to have fun and let loose, not like BOA or Skybar which is full of posturing and networking and such.

Post: #22

(04-01-2012 04:10 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  What are some ideas for expanding into social networks with very good looking women? Especially for guys in their 30s.

I know work can be good if you have the type of job that brings you into contact with lots of new people. But for some of us the nature of our work has us in solitude.

I've had some luck with volunteer work, dog parks, charity events, adult sports leagues and living in a neighborhood apartment/condo instead of a house (places that have community ammentities like pools, gyms, tennis courts, etc)

Post: #23

(04-02-2012 03:09 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  I've endorsed it before and I'll do it again: Skybar. They do tend to run a tight door, especially weekends. I know a doorman there who will let me in on weekdays but even on weekends he'll tell me I need a girl to get in. I have a handful of platonic girlfriends for this very reason.

Go to Skybar on Friday or Saturday and you'll see great talent and a great ratio. It's *slightly* older than further down in Hollywood. I don't bother with Hollywood anymore (Drai's, Eden, MyStudio, Playhouse) but the scene is definitely younger if that's your thing. Honestly I would need to spend a few months in Hollywood to get that game back, those girls are just so fucking young and flaky, and i'm probably too lazy and cheap to do it. The great thing about Skybar and hotel lounges in general is that the majority of girls are from out of town which puts them in a much more open mindset. They're obviously there to meet people, either network, make friends, or fuck. I notice girls are very open to approaches there, and the mood is very relaxing and mellow, not some aggro club with roid heads in Affliction walking around. I never hesitate in approaching there for some reason, it's very conducive...you see a couple girls or a group on a couch or in a banquette and you can literally just sit in and join as if you were a part of the group, I've never had any rejection or pushback there. At the very least I've made some new friends and contacts if there was no sexual/attraction vibe.

I've got a hookup at Greystone Manor and it's still exclusive enough that there are packs of 8+ wandering around. SBE venues in general maintain a tight door so knowing a promoter is crucial. I haven't been to Sayer's club yet but it's supposed to be more chill, more of a lounge. I know a friend of a friend there so I could just go and report back.

The Standard can be good, not great. I highly recommend BOA on Sunset. It's a high end steakhouse with a great bar/lounge area. BOA attracts a lot of big shot corporate power players and the gold digging sluts that chase them. Like I said, dress sharp, know how to work that environment and you can do quite well there (I have).

I've had moderate pulls at Sean Macpherson venues (Jones, Roger Room, El Carmen) They're more casual, more fun actually, more my type of bars, but the talent slips a notch or two from the above mentioned venues. I've seen good ratios at both, and you will definitely see the occasional 8 or 9 there, but be prepared for "I have a boyfriend" or bitch shields or cockblocks etc. Most people go to these venues to have fun and let loose, not like BOA or Skybar which is full of posturing and networking and such.

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't really gotten into that "high-end" scene yet but I may have to check into this sometime to see what it's all about. Must say though that I'm turned off by pretentiousness and door drama. Don't care about the whole "see and be seen" thing, but some people love that.

Post: #24

(04-03-2012 12:29 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(04-02-2012 03:09 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  I've endorsed it before and I'll do it again: Skybar. They do tend to run a tight door, especially weekends. I know a doorman there who will let me in on weekdays but even on weekends he'll tell me I need a girl to get in. I have a handful of platonic girlfriends for this very reason.

Go to Skybar on Friday or Saturday and you'll see great talent and a great ratio. It's *slightly* older than further down in Hollywood. I don't bother with Hollywood anymore (Drai's, Eden, MyStudio, Playhouse) but the scene is definitely younger if that's your thing. Honestly I would need to spend a few months in Hollywood to get that game back, those girls are just so fucking young and flaky, and i'm probably too lazy and cheap to do it. The great thing about Skybar and hotel lounges in general is that the majority of girls are from out of town which puts them in a much more open mindset. They're obviously there to meet people, either network, make friends, or fuck. I notice girls are very open to approaches there, and the mood is very relaxing and mellow, not some aggro club with roid heads in Affliction walking around. I never hesitate in approaching there for some reason, it's very conducive...you see a couple girls or a group on a couch or in a banquette and you can literally just sit in and join as if you were a part of the group, I've never had any rejection or pushback there. At the very least I've made some new friends and contacts if there was no sexual/attraction vibe.

I've got a hookup at Greystone Manor and it's still exclusive enough that there are packs of 8+ wandering around. SBE venues in general maintain a tight door so knowing a promoter is crucial. I haven't been to Sayer's club yet but it's supposed to be more chill, more of a lounge. I know a friend of a friend there so I could just go and report back.

The Standard can be good, not great. I highly recommend BOA on Sunset. It's a high end steakhouse with a great bar/lounge area. BOA attracts a lot of big shot corporate power players and the gold digging sluts that chase them. Like I said, dress sharp, know how to work that environment and you can do quite well there (I have).

I've had moderate pulls at Sean Macpherson venues (Jones, Roger Room, El Carmen) They're more casual, more fun actually, more my type of bars, but the talent slips a notch or two from the above mentioned venues. I've seen good ratios at both, and you will definitely see the occasional 8 or 9 there, but be prepared for "I have a boyfriend" or bitch shields or cockblocks etc. Most people go to these venues to have fun and let loose, not like BOA or Skybar which is full of posturing and networking and such.

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't really gotten into that "high-end" scene yet but I may have to check into this sometime to see what it's all about. Must say though that I'm turned off by pretentiousness and door drama. Don't care about the whole "see and be seen" thing, but some people love that.

I feel you. All I can say is the jump in quality is noticeable. I've got somewhat of an LTR and something on the side and pretty happy, but sometimes you get the urge for shooting for higher game. The venues I mentioned are for just that, as long as you're willing to jump through the necessary hoops.

Post: #25

I see what you mean. I'm sure the quality is quite high. On the yelp review for Greystone someone says Rihanna parties there. So I'm guessing you get a lot of stars coming through there.

I totally understand the draw of that scene since that's where the best looking crowd is.

Do you have any suggestions of places similar to the Edison downtown? But maybe with higher quality? I like the fact that it's classy and people dress up and the place has a great vibe, ambiance and decor yet there's no drama getting in. Decent girls can be seen there but I'm sure it's no Graystone.