Post: #1

hey brahz. i started lifting weights 3 weeks ago under the starting strength program, except with 8 repetitions instead of the recommended 5 for teh mass, and i've accordingly upped my daily protein intake. my question is, as the thread title indicates, how much protein is too much? for example, on friday, i ate the following protein sources:

breakfast - 4 extra large eggs (28 g protein), 48 g protein powder (40 g protein), plus fruits

lunch - mostly veggies

dinner, post-workout - 400 g pre-cooked chicken breast (104 g protein), 72 g protein powder (60 g protein)

that's 232 g. i've read that when doing weight-training, one should take at least one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. i'm 5'6", 145 lbs. is 232 g too much for me? now "too much" encompasses two questions, really. first, is it harmful? i'm guessing no, because i feel fine. the second then, is it wasteful? beyond a certain amount, does my body stop absorbing/utilizing the stuff? if i got so much protein from the chicken breast then can i forego the protein powder at dinner?

or is it, the more, the better?

Post: #2

I would down the protein intake from the shakes. Its just not needed. 1g per lb of body weight is the conventional wisdom.

Working out your BMR will give you an idea of how many total calories you need in every day life, then work out how much you are actually consuming. A good rough guide is to be eating 500 extra calories over your BMR daily to put on mass.

Bodybuilding.com forums are a legit resource and can explain all the stuff i glossed over in a lot more detail.

Post: #3

If you're bulking up, I wouldn't worry about going over the g/lbs recommendation, just don't go under it. That much higher probably isn't really necessary, but it's not going to be harmful. If you're struggling to eat that much, then you can certainly cut a little bit out, but otherwise I wouldn't worry too much.

Post: #4

You're good.

Post: #5

Post: #6

The only recommendation I would make is to spread those three meals in to five.

Post: #7

0.8g/lbs was my rule. Past like 0.8, 0.9, most people seem to just not process it and it's wasted. I put on mass at as low as 0.7.
My $0.02.

Post: #8

(09-23-2012 10:16 PM)bodmon Wrote:  hey brahz. i started lifting weights 3 weeks ago under the starting strength program, except with 8 repetitions instead of the recommended 5 for teh mass, and i've accordingly upped my daily protein intake. my question is, as the thread title indicates, how much protein is too much? for example, on friday, i ate the following protein sources:

breakfast - 4 extra large eggs (28 g protein), 48 g protein powder (40 g protein), plus fruits

lunch - mostly veggies

dinner, post-workout - 400 g pre-cooked chicken breast (104 g protein), 72 g protein powder (60 g protein)

that's 232 g. i've read that when doing weight-training, one should take at least one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. i'm 5'6", 145 lbs. is 232 g too much for me? now "too much" encompasses two questions, really. first, is it harmful? i'm guessing no, because i feel fine. the second then, is it wasteful? beyond a certain amount, does my body stop absorbing/utilizing the stuff? if i got so much protein from the chicken breast then can i forego the protein powder at dinner?

or is it, the more, the better?

Sitck with the 5 reps, brahz.

Post: #9

(09-23-2012 10:16 PM)bodmon Wrote:  hey brahz. i started lifting weights 3 weeks ago under the starting strength program, except with 8 repetitions instead of the recommended 5 for teh mass, and i've accordingly upped my daily protein intake. my question is, as the thread title indicates, how much protein is too much? for example, on friday, i ate the following protein sources:

breakfast - 4 extra large eggs (28 g protein), 48 g protein powder (40 g protein), plus fruits

lunch - mostly veggies

dinner, post-workout - 400 g pre-cooked chicken breast (104 g protein), 72 g protein powder (60 g protein)

that's 232 g. i've read that when doing weight-training, one should take at least one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. i'm 5'6", 145 lbs. is 232 g too much for me? now "too much" encompasses two questions, really. first, is it harmful? i'm guessing no, because i feel fine. the second then, is it wasteful? beyond a certain amount, does my body stop absorbing/utilizing the stuff? if i got so much protein from the chicken breast then can i forego the protein powder at dinner?

or is it, the more, the better?

go heavy on the carbs and lower the protein.

Its bullshit if/when you hear people say..."oh the body can only digest x amount of protein a day" its broscience.Your body will digest it all

Post: #10

The only problem I can see is that if you're one of those jerks that can't get fat no matter how hard they try, the satiating effect of protein might keep you from taking in enough calories overall. Muscle-building takes both protein and energy.

Post: #11

(09-24-2012 01:40 PM)Anon-A-Moose Wrote:  0.8g/lbs was my rule. Past like 0.8, 0.9, most people seem to just not process it and it's wasted. I put on mass at as low as 0.7.
My $0.02.

I guess i'm still not loading up on protein enough. I'm 80 kilos so thats 176 lbs. 176 x 0.8 = 140 grams of protein.

I think that I get around a 100 gr. on most days.

A couple of eggs ( 3) = 21 gr.
half a liter of quark = 45 gr.
protein shake 25
bread with cheese or peanut butter ?gr.

I started eating two roasted chickens a week now. I buy whole roasted chickens at the local market and eat half a day. I guess those days it an extra 75 to 100 grams protein.
Lots of protein and its a cheap dinner at 3 euros.

Post: #12

Read Arnold's Education of a Bodybuilder.

Post: #13

Speaking of

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BDxgFUvTJTE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Post: #14

5x5 with as much weight as your body can take will make you fucking strong as shit. Probably one of the best things this forum has taught me, value of 5x5s. I literally look like a completely different person than I did six months ago and my diet has been fairly steady.

Post: #15

OP, read this: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...=121703981

Post: #16

From a Q&A on Chaos and Pain

http://chaosandpain.blogspot.co.uk/2012/...t-all.html

Q:"Too much protein damages your kidneys."(More of a statement, really, made by someone who has no fucking clue what they're talking about)

A: This is wholly, completely, and patently incorrect. For healthy people, your internal organs adapt to your diet in the same way that your muscles adapt to increased training levels, and suffer no ill effects whatsoever in the transition.(Skov) Once you get your protein levels through the fucking roof, keeping them there doesn't adversely affect you either.(Knight) Additionally, high protein diets are associated with higher B-12, B-6, and folate levels, and better lipid profiles.(Knight) Frankly, I think the entire idea that there can be "too much" protein in your diet is about as sensible as Shaquille O'Neal's foray into rap. Americans in particular are historically a nation of meat eaters, and we were eating 178 pounds of meat per person a year in the 19th Century and eight times as much meat as bread in the 18th... which is a tremendous amount considering the fact that refrigeration had not yet been invented.(Taubes 11)

Even if the human condition had deteriorated markedly in the last couple of hundred years, your lifestyle has bestowed upon you far greater ability to absorb the protein you consume than the average person, as resistance exercise confers greater protein synthesis. The theory behind this, called the "Energetical Theory" of muscular hypertrophy, suggests that when "the mass of proteins catabolized by resistive exercise exceeds the mass of proteins newly synthesized... between training session, protein synthesis is increased. The uptake of amino acids from the blood into the muscles is above resting values. This repeated process of enhanced degradation and synthesis of contractile proteins may result in super-compensation of protein."(Bernadot 33, Zatsiorsky 8) Due to this phenomenon, it seems ridiculous that the human body would be adversely affected by high dietary intake of protein. Were humans subject to a hard limit on their protein intake, we'd be unable to heal properly when burned, or to recover from the types of incredibly hard labor that were common as iPhones in a Starbucks today. Should you be concerned that a diet heavy in protein shakes like this one would cause your system some undue stress, fear not- science has our backs once again. "During food restriction, protein anabolism is favored when the delivery of amino acids is evenly distributed throughout the day"(Mosoni) and greater frequency of feedings increases the amount of protein you absorb.(Cohn) So, we know that your body will adapt to high protein levels, and that the more frequently you eat protein, the easier it'll be to absorb.

But where are the benefits for a heavy lifter, you might ask? For starters, an intake of greater than 1 gram per pound of bodyweight, in addition to being comically easy to consume, results in a positive nitrogen and negative fat balance.(Forslund) Even larger amounts (>1.5grams/lb. of bodyweight) will stimulate significant muscle growth, and the unused protein will be oxidized and excreted, wholly without deleterious side effects, by healthy kidneys.(Fern) This diet, being somewhat lower in fat and higher in protein than the typical ketogenic diet, will obviously result in some glucogenesis, which is for some reason strikes in a bunch of you terror not unlike that which small children used to reserve for the bogeyman and Michael Jackson. Glucogenesis, or the process by which the body converts protein to energy to replace lost muscle glycogen, occurs irrespective of the type of diet one follows. 5-15% of the amino acids you consume are going to be used as fuel in weight training, and endurance sports utilize an even greater percentage to repair the extensive damage caused by whatever shenanigans in which they happen to be engaging.(Bernadot 31) In short, more protein is good, and a shitload more protein is a even fucking better. Thus, according to both common sense and a meta-analysis, the following is true: Unless you're suffering from renal failure, you can eat protein to your heart's content, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar spouting hippie bullshit, and is possibly a communist.(Martin)

If you're worried about kidney stones, you're either a woman, a 70 year old man, or you're fucking retarded. Kidney stones are caused by dehydration or disease, not your protein intake.(NKUDIC) In other words, quit yet bitchin' and drink more fucking water, and if you're a chick, take a fucking leak after you someone smashes the fucking granny out of you- untreated UTIs lead to kidney stones.

That, motherfuckers, is called dropping knowledge.

Post: #17

so there are some guys here who are telling me to stick to 5 repetitions instead of my current 8. but is 5 enough to induce aka sarcoplasmic hypertrophy aka teh mass? you must understand, this is a pick up forum and i want dat aesthetic. i don't want to be a fat powerlifter.

Post: #18

also, let me tell you my routine.

M W F

squat (in high-bar position, resting on traps - will switch to low-bar position in the near future) x 3 work sets x 8 repetitions
shoulder press/bench press (alternating each workout) x 3 work sets x 8 repetitions
deadlift x 1 work set x 8 repetitions

my first workout was on september 3. my squat was 45 lbs (empty bar) and my deadlift was 95 lbs. i've been adding 5, sometimes 10 lbs each workout. my most recent workout was on september 26. my squat was 115 lbs. my deadlift was 165 lbs but i could not do the last rep so lets call it 160 lbs. i benched 80 lbs on that day but i have not had a consistent spotter in my apartment gym so i've only benched like 3 times in this period. my shoulder press is 60 lbs. like the starting strength book says, it is tough to increase on this exercise.

Post: #19

(09-28-2012 10:42 AM)bodmon Wrote:  so there are some guys here who are telling me to stick to 5 repetitions instead of my current 8. but is 5 enough to induce aka sarcoplasmic hypertrophy aka teh mass? you must understand, this is a pick up forum and i want dat aesthetic. i don't want to be a fat powerlifter.

How would doing 5 reps with heavier weight, as oppose to 8, make you fat? Fat comes from your diet, not your lifts.

Do the program as written. 3x5 routines have worked for literally thousands of people, and been recommended by hundreds of top coaches. These people are much more qualified than you or I, so don't rewrite it.

5 reps with heavier weight will make you stronger, and gain more muscle, than 8. for a novice, 5 is the answer.

Post: #20

ok chill, imagine i did not say "fat". but yeah, maybe i will switch to the recommended 5, maybe i'm looking too far ahead.

Post: #21

Do you take digestive enzymes? Its not the amount you take its the amount you absorb. Also sip those shakes slowly. Your body is a machine. Dont overload the worker.

Post: #22

It's honestly inconsequential; some dietary nutritionists actually recommend shooting for 1.5g/lb or even 2g/lb for a bulking diet, so if you're between 1-2 g/lb, then you're doing just fine and you don't have anything to worry about. Eat whatever is convenient for you.
The only real factor worth putting much thought into here is that it's a bit of a waste of money to chug supplementary protein around the clock, since meat is much cheaper. I'd suggest relegating that to post-workout only (especially if it's whey).

The circle jerking you'll see around bodybuilding forums and the like about the "maximum amount" of protein your diet should include or the maximum amount your body can utilize in one meal (30g is the well known dogma) is just not really worth pontificating about.
There may indeed be some intake level beyond which you won't see any additional benefits for muscle gains, but even then the protein you eat does not just "go to waste", whatever that means exactly... Keep in mind that a lot of the human body besides muscle is comprised largely of protein, including your skin, hair, fingernails, cartilage, brain matter, fascia, and innumerable other bodyparts. Your body also burns the stuff for energy.

I really like Will Brink's summary in the below video.

Post: #23

It's a bit of a balance really, try not to overload your system with anything you can't burn off. As you get stronger your body will recquire more nutrients for repair and growt. If you are after something to really help you along you really can't go past creatine, whether it be in a preworkout, or powder. For natural bodybuilding it is the best stuff out there, much better than overloading on shakes. Higher protein intake than carbs I would say for sure. As for reps 5x5 works really well for compounds like bench, squats, deadlifts. You can constantly add poundage and do it consistantly. You don't necessarily need to hit failure on 5x5, if you leave a little in the tank you can constantly add strength. For everything else anything goes for reps. To get a balance physique you can't go past heavy compound movements, isolation stuff is purely secondary.