Post: #1

I would like to bring attention to something that is rarely if ever brought up at these boards.

As recent experiences of Roosh, Kamaki, IKnowExactly, and BigAlexBoss show, getting pussy in say Ukraine (under the terms we are usually comfortable with) is not exactly an easy proposition as some of you may think in your heads. As post after post reveals, the golden days of easy UA pussy is gone for some time now, and obtaining it now takes either time, or money, and in most quality instances it takes both, time and money. Often times a lot more than necessary.

So why even bother?

I think some of you less than experienced travelers may think that these developments won't apply to you, or that the FSU girls' shit doesn't stink. I think many of you may have your thinking process clouded by a (rightful) contempt you have against the western bitches, and automatically wish to assume anything else is better. And in most cases it is, or it may be. But in the example of Ukraine, the path now comes with obstacles that are bringing the value of the overall experience down, as in down to the gutter down. If it takes more time and money to game some poor semi-provincial sweetie in Ukraine than it takes to game her exact ethnic twin in London or New York, really, why bother?

At the end of the day, she may be sweeter than her western counterpart, but was all else worth it?

Moreover, keep in mind that FSU women are some of the most cunning women in recent memory. They are both, uber-materialistic and uber-hypergamous, at levels far higher than most women you will ever meet. The reason perhaps may be in their unfortunate history. There were frequent times (as recently as 1980s) when these women, or at least their moms and aunties, practically starved. So it is in their cultural DNA to do the best they can for themselves, and grab the biggest slice of a pie they can come across, in continuously difficult circumstances.

Which of course comes at your expense.

Either they will quite frankly expect gifts from you (smart phones, smart clothes, shoes, cosmetics) or a certain lifestyle level (fancy dinners, clubbing, traveling). But in many instances they won't openly say it or ask for it lest you think of them worse for it. This may not be too obvious at first, because most of them will be pushing the right GFE buttons, using all the weapons in their feminine arsenal they can to project an "image" of a nice girl from a good home. In some cases, on cheap coffee shop dates, they may even offer to pay themselves (and if they pay once for two coffees, chances are you will willingly repay for that later on many times over.) If not, in many cases they still may take you to cheaper places supposedly to "save you money". But why that is? Think about it, the less money you spend on unnecessary things, the more money you can spend on HER. And for her unnecessary is everything that isn't of higher value directly beneficial to her. THAT is HER thinking, while you are thinking, oh she is such a sweetie, she wants to save me money.

Because of the effects of harsh socioeconomic conditions, especially after the fall of Berlin wall (1989) certain FSU and EE lands became literally the biggest exporters of "meat" on the global "meat market". The most significant if not close to entire prostitution population in places like London, Paris, Rome, New York, Montreal, Dubai, (nowadays far Asia), etc. etc. are made up of Russians, Moldavians, Ukrainians, Polish, etc. Strip joints? Russians, Ukrainians, Romanians, etc. Online marriage agencies: Russia, Ukraine, etc. Online Porn? Russians, Hungarian, Czech-Slovak, Polish, etc. Online scams? Russians, etc.

That, my gents, is the stock with which you are dealing. They may look sweet and demure and hold your hands and stare at the starry sky and quote you poetic passages from their "culture", but don't ever loose of the sight that in FSU they are gaming YOU. And the likes of you, because in the same way you are pipelining and simultaneously pursuing other "prospects", the exact same thing she is doing. And far more successfully than you.

Tips:

Paying for coffee dates, cinema, dinner, and couple of drinks is fine (but why does she needs to drink, isn't she a good girl from a good home?) Paying for occasional taxi is OK if the taxis are cheap in Kiev, if not then it's not OK (they are used to walking and talking public transport all their lives, she'll survive.) Anything over that (including paying for drinks for her friends) and you are in a chump territory my friend.

Push things toward faster resolutions, or toward possibilities for faster resolution.

You want only sex, and you have no other interest in her? 3 cheap dates rule. 5 if your other prospects are slim. Still no pussy = no more dates. Go onto the next one. If she asks, you can be frank. Tell her that she's giving you blue balls, and that these are not 1950s, and that you need some loving as a man if you were to continue to date.

You think there's a possibility of LTR? Take the time you need, but test the shit out of her. Her body, her character, her thinking process. Don't simply ask for her to tell you the right things, pick her brain by asking other things, find an indirect way to find out about her and her values and her personality.

Marriage material? Have you ever been loved by a woman who is head over heels about you? She doesn't care what and where, all she can think of is you two together, anywhere, anyhow. That type of woman will worship you unconditionally, and will not even bat an eyelid when you tell her you want to move to Ukraine and drive a forklift to be with her. She'll think that's the greatest idea she ever heard. Anything less, and you are marrying an upward mover (you are the first path on her stairway to success).

Whenever any bitch in any developing country utters the word "family" (or some family member) as a reason for something that she needs to do, your red flag should immediately pop up on high bullshit alert. She can't be with you this Saturday, because she's going out of town with her family? Yeah right, she is probably flying off with her Turkish provider to some beach resort. If you don't believe me, test her. Press for details, tiny details, even (especially) when she comes back from the trip (ask for names, locations, food, weather, ask for pics), if she can't tell you, or won't tell you, or is at first lost for words, or the story makes no sense - congrats. - you just caught your sweetie lying.

You are sitting in a crowded central square, you are scanning the talent. Nobody is paying much attention to you. Suddenly, there it is. An IOI from a sweetie four benches over. What's more she's smiling at you. Wow, after being a wallpaper for much of the time and being met with all the frumpy, unfriendly post-Soviet looks, one beauty is finally seeing you for what you really are; a true stud muffin! What's more, you can't believe your luck, she speaks some broken English!! Wow, your mind is racing thinking of all the exciting possibilities now awaiting.

Congrats. You were just hooked by a gamer.

Women who crowd popular spots, and/or who open you, or are easily open to your opening are there for a reason. And even if they aren't, you being there just gave them a reason.

Ukraine has been a prime global love/sex tourist destination for good 20 years. During that time if not millions of men from around the world walked around those exact streets you are walking also looking for pussy, cash or not. The situation was bad in the past several years and is now - after the Euro 2012 where hordes of unsophisticated louts with spare cash and lack of time plundered the scene - downright atrocious.

If you are not very internationally experienced, and aren't willing to really stick to playing by firm financial engagement rules, and aren't willing to soberly keep in mind some basic facts, what makes you think you aren't a chump?

These women are sharks, don't be their feed.

Post: #2

Reading all these FSU reports the women sound like a major pain in the ass with their looks being the only redeeming quality.

Post: #3

And don't bring all your cards to the table right away, especially if you are better off. Don't tell her on your second date about your high flying job, or your Harvard degree, or your net worth, or your properties, etc. This isn't bored, spoiled west, the big name game is not required, should not be required, to game some poor, semi-provincial girl in Ukraine.

Whether you just want her pussy, or you are interested in LTR, giving her your resume only invites her to game you harder, further. If she's really so sweet, and if she really doesn't want to put out so soon because she's really into an old fashioned romance, well, give her chance to prove it. Give her a chance to go for you as a person, and/or your deliberately understated status (career, ability, background, potential), BEFORE she can ever go for your true status. Otherwise you won't have anyone but self to blame when she divorces you as a person, and games away half of your status.

Post: #4

Bottom line: if you have a killer instinct and are not a sucker (e.g. if you're a Luigi from my She Is Bitch story), Ukraine is better than the USA. Personally, I'd pick Ukraine over the USA because I can know I can "scam" those girls before they scam me and get that sweet pussy before investing much.

If you're an average dude who just wants a nice girl, Ukraine will eat you alive. Go to central Europe instead.

Post: #5

This is the basic principle I have referred to months ago:"In FSU the game is done by women."(actually they are the ones who do the push-pull, the negs and everything else and your role is to comply.If a man attempts to do the same he appears weird and unreliable to say the least.

Also it is matter of character.How much you have been beaten etc.How much shit you have eaten and how much you can eat.An atrocious shit eater has really no problem in Ukraine.The more shit you can absorb and digest the better.The rough experience however pays off.The more the pain the more the gain.How to explain?Let's say for every difficulty you meet in Ukraine you get your reward in pussy.
This also makes the experience very fluctuating from heaven to hell and vice versa.Russians like extreme emotions.You have to feel extreme pain,extreme joy etc.They are not people of the average.Generally FSU women are uncompromised they are not down to earth or humble or inferiority complex beaten like polish women.If you show any kind of weakness,mental,material,emotional,FSU women do not forgive.They want strong men from all aspects.As long as the cash flows they may turn a blind eye to other properties but by the time you show incapability to satisfy their demands you are fucked.You will be degraded to the category of hypoman.

Polish women think more or less the same way as Ukrainian women they only cover all this by civilization demands while Ukrainian and Russian will tell you in your face.This is good to get down to business with every category of slavic women.

Post: #6

Well said Roosh...Ukrainian girls should be careful with some of the guys on these forums

Gaston: which would you prefer, a girl from Ukraine or a girl from the USA -- given the same level of visual quality?

Post: #7

One also has to understand the soviet mentality and the historical reasons which created this behavior.From Tsar to communist president to today's regime little has changed.There is always this oppression of the few.Women operate under very unfortunate conditions and they have to survive.
One important aspect is that they have to win in every case.They manage this by stubborness.So in every deal you have with them they have to be the winner.Especially Russian women can never lose.They always have to win.This creates strange for a foreigner situations where you find the girl fighting strong for every right.A usual foreigner cannot handle such pressure and gives in.The Ukrainian or Russian guy uses heavy quantities of vodka to cope up with the mental state of his women.Under influence of vodka the whole mental state adds to excitement and strong emotions.Anyway all this is a part of how slavic soul is felt by outsiders.

Post: #8

(09-29-2012 06:13 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Bottom line: if you have a killer instinct and are not a sucker (e.g. if you're a Luigi from my She Is Bitch story), Ukraine is better than the USA. Personally, I'd pick Ukraine over the USA because I can know I can "scam" those girls before they scam me and get that sweet pussy before investing much.

If you're an average dude who just wants a nice girl, Ukraine will eat you alive. Go to central Europe instead.

Hah! In only 3 lines to say what it took me 300 Me and my narrative storytelling

(09-29-2012 06:38 PM)The Duke Wrote:  Gaston: which would you prefer, a girl from Ukraine or a girl from the USA -- given the same level of visual quality?

Ukrainian.

Look, I'm not a hater. I like Ukrainians and Russians in general. Some of my similar-background acquaintances married them and swear by them (as dutiful wives, great mothers, staying slim/in shape even when getting older, etc.)

But,

I'd still be careful, and I'd still be wary of importing them into the West with me. And frankly, I also think they are bores.

And,

I still think there's a country or two or three or half-a-dozen in Europe (or what was formerly East block) that gets you similar or even better quality of women with higher level of stability, more stable/prosperous personal backgrounds, lesser chance of divorce, lesser overall hassle, etc. And when I say that I'm especially thinking of those guys who may be on a lookout for serious relationships, and I'd hate to see them venture into wrong directions when others would do.

In other words, UA and RU are in my view overrated at the expense of some lesser talked about women/destinations. This could just be my personal bias, but it could also very well be an observably and analytically objective truth.

Post: #9

I think a girl who is truly in love with you will treat you right, no matter which country she hails from. I agree you with that, for those of us looking for LTR, the question is, which country can you get the best girl who will fall in love with you (and stay in love with you). I agree with you that Ukraine, despite being one of my favorite countries, might not be the best country for this. It's not clear to me where is. Trying to figure this out is part of the reason I'm on these forums.

Post: #10

"Marriage material? Have you ever been loved by a woman who is head over heels about you? She doesn't care what and where, all she can think of is you two together, anywhere, anyhow. That type of woman will worship you unconditionally, and will not even bat an eyelid when you tell her you want to move to Ukraine and drive a forklift to be with her"

Married 10 1/2 years to not only a Ukrainian but an Odessan(worst vile of all). I MUST BE DOIGN SOMETHING RIGHT . I have a law enforcement background and I lean towards OCD so I know how to put them or any women i n thier place,partly by being more stubborn than they are .However ,you made a good point ,they are gaming us. Waht do you expect? Guy s are hanging out i nthe center and in known expat venues . Girls who walk the area do so seeking English speakers. The dark skinned sex tourists have made it worst because alot of the more shy ,meek girls now avoid the center. Ukraine is filled with lots of great women. You have to live there , work there and date thme like you would i nany country. Almost all other fellow expats had a hAREM OF GIRLFRIENDS regardless if low paid teacher or rich executive. You cant have it both ways. Part of the reason guys do game is because being nice doesnt work i nthe west. Well FSU allows us to go back to 1950's. It means we have t obe men ,that means provide , i nreturn we ca ndate thme and win thir hearts like our grand parents use to have to do. If you want to meet a good girl? Stop hititng on girls i nthe center who have large ego's fro mgettign hit on all the time .its worst now because al lthe sex tourists have inflated thier egos. i know turkish, chinese and even African guys all got hot wives. i just read somewhere 200,000 russians are married t oturkish citizens. What it tell s me is Ukraine is not a palce to run game to sleep with different women. However , if you wor k here,etc its a great palce to have a GF or LTR and eve nfind a wife. If you rely only o nEnglish language you limit yourself t o wome n who want foreighners. Why should they want us? maybe because we have money and passports? 2 out of every 3 girls I use t o date spoke no english .I t was hard. i n the end it gets boring ,etc and on her side i can only see the status datign a foreigner gave her as her prize .I met my wife during daygame, i was in leather jacket and she thoguht I WAS JUST A LOCAL Ukrainian. i was lucky she spoke perfect English and eve n had western sense of humor. You want LTR? UA is probably still good but learn language and keep out of Kiev. kiev is not Ukraine. Its infested with sex tourists and rich guys and the women are hit on daily and can afford to PLAY YOU. But you are playing them aren't you? why should you get what you want and they shouldn't? ITS LOGICAL SEX. Atleast in Moscow you will meet more sluts probably.
i remember guys bragging about how they banged girls they met at Obrien's pub. I use to scratch my head thinking thats like braggign about banging whores i n whorehouse. Girls always went there t o look for English speakers so it was just a matter of what Englishman gamed them. Want to meet unspoiled girls? Go to the left bank, get off metro and take trolleybus far out. Find a shopping area. These girls probably do not see many foreighners , or sex tourists. BuT wait, You need google translate for sure. Its catch 22. And good girld there don't put out
sorry for typos.

Post: #11

Here you go, Gaston:

Post: #12

Gaston that is a superb post.

They certainly GAME you. I am too cunning to be effectively GAMED but was not used to girls exerting such tight control over their affections and libido and pussy access. It was cold and calculating in many cases. And it makes sense when you consider their pussy is their number 1 resource. Major strategy changes will be implemented to countermeasure them for the next visit.

I'll be coming back with my chafes and flares fully loaded and AMRAAMS on standby.

If I am selling my house in London, you bet I would be cold and calculating. I would extract the absolute MAXIMUM I could get for it and probably retire permanently on the proceeds. They are doing the same, except their value is depreciating rapidly, unlike my London pad (thank god for property in international megahubs, always a safe bet)

Post: #13

Excellent post Gaston and interesting discussion.

If I can talk from my personal perspective for a moment:

There seems to be a perception amongst a lot of guys that the FSU is a pussy paradise. The truth is that it is,but only in terms of quality of women,aesthetically speaking. It cannot be underestimated just how attractive a large percentage of the women in Kiev,Moscow,Minsk,Peter etc. can be. It's not a myth or exaggeration. It really is like being at a fashion show as you are surrounded by these tall,feminine beauties in every situation imaginable. The immigration official at Domodedova Airport,the stunning shop worker in some provincial supermarket,the receptionist at your hotel. Beauty is so common there that it holds less value then in the West.

However the problem is that being surrounded by such women is nothing but a frustrating experience because they are, to the average foreigner at least, unavailable. It's like having a Sports illustrated calendar on your office wall. Sure
it's great to look at them but in the end it just ends up reminding you that you're not banging them. The top tier women in the FSU are the same,for the most part not open to the average foreigner. Why not? Well because the top ones have options,and banging a foreigner who has no long term commitments to the country is not a good option for her. Not only that,a top local girl will get a good local man,someone with connections and protective abilities for her family,the possibility of providing 'Krisha' in an unstable world of local political thugs. What can we offer? One thing. A way out. That is the sole thing we can offer girls. And the problem is that the top girls often aren't looking for one so our foreignness is negated by their lack of desire to leave.

So why do I keep going back? Well,although I'm not banging 9/10's I will bang a supply of lesser girls. There are plenty of Ukrainian 7's and occasional 8's who are not getting the cream of local talent,chicks who see a life of living with a fuckwit local dude and earning a pittance and want an escape route. These types are relatively common and if you have a modicum of charm and are staying beyond a week or two you'll find them. These girls never got out of Dodge but have the foresight and determination to do so. The problem is that you'll never be satisfied with them because you'll always be chasing after the higher quality women but not getting them. And the truth is,they will rarely be satisfied with you because she'd prefer a decent local dude. I don't think there is a country in the world where the women seek out a foreign husband/partner unless for financial gain. Ukraine is no different. We see the average local dudes there who are dressed shabby and
unattractive and smugly think we are better then them because we have our flash shoes, disposable income and centrally rented apartment. However those are not the guys the women are comparing us against when deciding her options. They are weighing us up against the best local men,the guys who have the cash,the connections and who knows how to handle her. And against those guys we come off second best. And hence if she is going to lower her value by fucking us and having her friend's,family and town know that,then you'd better be willing to
recompense her. That is the trade off. But that mercenary outlook is not necessarily a bad thing,it works in our favor too. You can play the economics game with them,the carrot and the stick,dangle the dream but make sure they need to take another step in order to get a sniff.

The other thing about the women is they are more conservative in many cases then in the US or UK or Aus etc. especially in the provinces so it takes longer to bang them then back home. Then you start thinking,fuck she's fleecing me for dinner dates but not putting out. Is she fleecing or do you just have unrealistic
expectations of how long things take? Is she just following the local dating
protocol? You don't know because you're in an alien environment. So you call her out and demand she stops playing games,and she thinks "what the fuck,this guy thinks I'm a slut now I'll play him for treating me like one". We see these white Christian girls and think that they are like us but just with a different language and novel ways of celebrating Christmas or weddings. The fact is though that they are very deeply different from us,not superficially and until you realize that and
understand the differences you will always be in the uncomfortable position of being lost.

So what are they like,what's it like to go on a date with them? The problem is unless you are fluent in her language you are relegating your game to base
movements. You are better off in high energy environments where you can dance and escalate kino more easily. Coffee dates are my nightmare because after a few minutes my Russian runs out as does her English then you can't run game that is
enjoyable, it becomes about hoping you have enough attraction and personality conveyance to get you through. That's why you need to screen out the non semi-fluent English speakers. Screen hard. But that in itself creates the problem that you are now disregarding huge swathes of local women. So what already was not a pussy paradise has now become even less of one.

I have had some great times over there. I have banged women hotter then I get back home and in sone interesting locations. I have met girls who did not conform in any way whatsoever to what I described above. I've had SNL's in provincial cities,had great times with girls who spoke zero English but they are the exception. I have also had abject failures,trips where I've not had a sniff of a bang,where I've blown money for no reward in the bang department. Where I've sworn never to return. And this brings me to my conclusion.

I am a Russophile. I love the FSU as a destination completely separate from it's women. Therefore regardless of bangs I always enjoy my trips. However if I had no interest in the countries would I go repeatedly purely for the women? No. If I did not speak conversational Russian would I consider going there to chase women time after time? No. If I did not have good friend's there would I visit to go girl hunting in some provincial shit hole? No. My advice is this:if you have no cultural interest go there,go see Kiev and Moscow,go chase the women,try to bang a stunner,bang a few 7's,get pissed on vodka with some local Gopnikis, but then seek your paradise elsewhere because for 95% of people it certainly won't be found in the FSU.

Just my take on things.

Post: #14

Fascinating to see 3 years of RVF accepted wisdom changing overnight in this and the other thread.

Post: #15

(09-30-2012 05:09 AM)RawGod Wrote:  Fascinating to see 3 years of RVF accepted wisdom changing overnight in this and the other thread.

I think there has only been one guy who has claimed it was a pussy paradise. I don't think Roosh ever did,and Kamaki has always been honest about the difficulties needing to be surmounted over there.

Post: #16

(09-29-2012 07:19 PM)Gaston Wrote:  

(09-29-2012 06:13 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Bottom line: if you have a killer instinct and are not a sucker (e.g. if you're a Luigi from my She Is Bitch story), Ukraine is better than the USA. Personally, I'd pick Ukraine over the USA because I can know I can "scam" those girls before they scam me and get that sweet pussy before investing much.

If you're an average dude who just wants a nice girl, Ukraine will eat you alive. Go to central Europe instead.

Hah! In only 3 lines to say what it took me 300 Me and my narrative storytelling

(09-29-2012 06:38 PM)The Duke Wrote:  Gaston: which would you prefer, a girl from Ukraine or a girl from the USA -- given the same level of visual quality?

Ukrainian.

Look, I'm not a hater. I like Ukrainians and Russians in general. Some of my similar-background acquaintances married them and swear by them (as dutiful wives, great mothers, staying slim/in shape even when getting older, etc.)

But,

I'd still be careful, and I'd still be wary of importing them into the West with me. And frankly, I also think they are bores.

And,

I still think there's a country or two or three or half-a-dozen in Europe (or what was formerly East block) that gets you similar or even better quality of women with higher level of stability, more stable/prosperous personal backgrounds, lesser chance of divorce, lesser overall hassle, etc. And when I say that I'm especially thinking of those guys who may be on a lookout for serious relationships, and I'd hate to see them venture into wrong directions when others would do.

In other words, UA and RU are in my view overrated at the expense of some lesser talked about women/destinations. This could just be my personal bias, but it could also very well be an observably and analytically objective truth.

Can you list the other countries you are referring to please? if possible best to worst!! Thanks

Post: #17

Vorkuta, your large post from above is excellent. It's well thought out, empirical, and ads more "food for thought".

More about my general suggestion not to spill your background beans to your prospects too soon. I suppose that can be waived if the situation calls for it. Say you meet your "dream woman". Someone with a perfect combination of looks and personality, someone you want for the mother of your children. What do you do? Well you can try to keep cool and slowly work on her, you can try to romance her, but there are no guarantees in it for you as she may never fall for it (in the way you'd like it to happen). So the other option is "full commando"; for you to present most of your cards on the table and see if she'll go for it. This could especially be valid strategy if you are at least 10-12 years older than her.

You can tell her something to the effect of: "Anna, here's who I am, what I have, and where I'd like to go. With you. Here's who you are, and what I'd want you to have, and what I'd expect us to have. As we go together through this thing called life." If you have a great sexual rapport, or if she's overly sexy, and if you want to weed out flakes, you could also tell her that you may have other liaisons on the side even when you two are married, but if she keeps in shape, and is dutiful wife and mother, she won't ever have to fear you leaving (though that clause may be overkill as most of them are culturally conditioned to expect you to have mistresses, or for you to leave if they go "American" on you). But still, you are the king, lay down the law. In fact, often times they live day to day and have no concept of what the future could bring for them. So such move may even take the burden off her conscious as many of them are overly worried about the future, and the lack of stability brings anxiety, so it may actually be very helpful for you to map out her life for her. And there's nothing more alpha then telling her exactly how she's going to live her life. That quickly puts her in place like nothing else, and is in many ways for her comfortably soothing while at the same time minge-tingling (best of both worlds!). If they have a single streak of submissiveness in them, and in EE they do, they may even love the whole bold arrangement. And with time she may even get to love you as a person (think of the Stockholm syndrome LOL

Sure, such move is anti-romantic, but it does have its potential value. And nothing is off or unnatural between two consenting adults. So use your communication skills, and your aura, and make a commando move. You will see where you stand shortly as she will have to make an explicit decision. And for that you'll be better off, especially if you lack time, money or patience. Her response will then allow you to make other decisions. If she refuses, then great. Move on to a next target. If she accepts, even better, you just started a first step in a future path with your dream woman, for less than it takes for an American princess to finish her XL portion of cheesy nachos, chew on brilliantly maroon set of Twizzlers, and gulp down the XXL cup of Slurpee®.

So yes, spill the beans, but spill them explicitly and not just for decoration. And I repeat especially if you are at least 10-12 years older than her.

Post: #18

(09-30-2012 05:09 AM)RawGod Wrote:  Fascinating to see 3 years of RVF accepted wisdom changing overnight in this and the other thread.

The Deb troll kept the fantasy alive. He instilled hope of poosy paradise in a lot of guys just so he could come across as a supreme player on the internet. The most pathetic troll we've had in the forum, hands down.

Post: #19

(First post for me) Excellent thread Gaston.

I loved the abundance and ease of the DR (note the use of past tense). I love the looks and the cadence of the Paisas. I love the rumba of the Calinas. There is gold in the Cafe Triangle (note the current tense) There was a cute woman I met in Berlin, another sexual dynamo in Bratislava. I thought Kiev was like Brighton Beach, NY - completely over rated. (I hate to be treated like a fucking tourist / or normal white guy!) I thought I could be very, very happy in Kharkov. But, I did see the high likelihood that it would turn into another Medellin for me, a magic room (a reference to Steppenwolf, Hesse).

I have good game and can blow through party girls, working girls, porn stars, strippers, barmaids, and college students like a rock star goes through cocaine. But, I come to this Forum now not as champion! NOPE ... I am in "look at yourself in the mirror" mode these days. My train was derailed 3 months ago in a little town in Poltava, Ukraine. And, I am still trying to 1) get over it. 2) see the truth of it. 3) decide what I am going to do about it.

BTW - I thought Bratislava was a complete joy! an easy place to spend a month or two. There is sufficient English, curiosity, and everything most guys need to leverage and run game, or date seriously. I would like to see Poland too. But, then again there is Ms. Poltava ... Back to my temporary demise.

Poltava is a small city in between Kiev and Kharkov. The fucking mail order bird industry is there, and those tours have created a negative steriotype that is difficult to overcome. So, I stayed in a nice little flat for 27 days for her - ONE GIRL. By the 3rd day, I dropped almost all game. I was not PW, but I was not myself either. I was on "perfect behavior. She was more than cautious, and at the same time absolutely consistent and attentive. How would I characterize my time with her (and her family)? SLOW and VERY human. NO GAME / NO PASSION / NONE of the stuff that has consumed the last 4 years of my life. So why do I like her so much, or at least can not get her out of my mind? I have been with a boat load of beautiful women. She is a 9 / 10. She is "nice" but not the life of the party. She is smart, but not a "rocket scientist." I think it is her old fashioned nature. This woman is not easy! She has high self esteem (ALL EE RW have high self esteems ... and I am sure that is what attracts me.) I will go back and see this one, just so I do not live with "what ifs."

But, it is good to know that other capable men have gotten tripped up in Ukraine too. If you are getting action in UKRAINE as a foreigner fast, it is not because you are "pretty". It is not because you are good at "game". It is because the woman wants sex, or wants something else. It is very, very transactional there. If you meet a "good girl" ... be prepared to go back to "Leave it to Beaver" times. It is an uphill battle for sure. I think you have to make a real investment in time and money -the human things that can not be gammed - before you even can approximate fully sincerity and long term compatibility. No Quality Fast Food in Ukraine my friends. The good girls that are beautiful are HIGH on the food chain, not low.

I will know more shortly

Post: #20

(09-30-2012 11:27 AM)ZonZon Wrote:  (First post for me) Excellent thread Gaston.

I loved the abundance and ease of the DR (note the use of past tense). I love the looks and the cadence of the Paisas. I love the rumba of the Calinas. There is gold in the Cafe Triangle (note the current tense) There was a cute woman I met in Berlin, another sexual dynamo in Bratislava. I thought Kiev was like Brighton Beach, NY - completely over rated. (I hate to be treated like a fucking tourist / or normal white guy!) I thought I could be very, very happy in Kharkov. But, I did see the high likelihood that it would turn into another Medellin for me, a magic room (a reference to Steppenwolf, Hesse).

I have good game and can blow through party girls, working girls, porn stars, strippers, barmaids, and college students like a rock star goes through cocaine. But, I come to this Forum now not as champion! NOPE ... I am in "look at yourself in the mirror" mode these days. My train was derailed 3 months ago in a little town in Poltava, Ukraine. And, I am still trying to 1) get over it. 2) see the truth of it. 3) decide what I am going to do about it.

BTW - I thought Bratislava was a complete joy! an easy place to spend a month or two. There is sufficient English, curiosity, and everything most guys need to leverage and run game, or date seriously. I would like to see Poland too. But, then again there is Ms. Poltava ... Back to my temporary demise.

Poltava is a small city in between Kiev and Kharkov. The fucking mail order bird industry is there, and those tours have created a negative steriotype that is difficult to overcome. So, I stayed in a nice little flat for 27 days for her - ONE GIRL. By the 3rd day, I dropped almost all game. I was not PW, but I was not myself either. I was on "perfect behavior. She was more than cautious, and at the same time absolutely consistent and attentive. How would I characterize my time with her (and her family)? SLOW and VERY human. NO GAME / NO PASSION / NONE of the stuff that has consumed the last 4 years of my life. So why do I like her so much, or at least can not get her out of my mind? I have been with a boat load of beautiful women. She is a 9 / 10. She is "nice" but not the life of the party. She is smart, but not a "rocket scientist." I think it is her old fashioned nature. This woman is not easy! She has high self esteem (ALL EE RW have high self esteems ... and I am sure that is what attracts me.) I will go back and see this one, just so I do not live with "what ifs."

But, it is good to know that other capable men have gotten tripped up in Ukraine too. If you are getting action in UKRAINE as a foreigner fast, it is not because you are "pretty". It is not because you are good at "game". It is because the woman wants sex, or wants something else. It is very, very transactional there. If you meet a "good girl" ... be prepared to go back to "Leave it to Beaver" times. It is an uphill battle for sure. I think you have to make a real investment in time and money -the human things that can not be gammed - before you even can approximate fully sincerity and long term compatibility. No Quality Fast Food in Ukraine my friends. The good girls that are beautiful are HIGH on the food chain, not low.

I will know more shortly

Nice to have you on the Forum ZonZon. Seems like you are straight shooter. What is your age, nationality and ethnicity so we can get an understanding of where you are coming from. Glad to know you are a Colombia lover like I am. One question: between Cali, Medellin and the DR which did you prefer?
The quality in Ukraine seems as good as it gets, but the logical sex thing aint my cup of tea.

Post: #21

Quote:Nice to have you on the Forum ZonZon. Seems like you are straight shooter. What is your age, nationality and ethnicity so we can get an understanding of where you are coming from. Glad to know you are a Colombia lover like I am. One question: between Cali, Medellin and the DR which did you prefer?
The quality in Ukraine seems as good as it gets, but the logical sex thing aint my cup of tea.

Well, the last thing I remembered I was 42 going through a divorce and feeling out of place in the single scene. That was 5 years ago. At that time I never left the USA. Then, I fell into the adult industry - as a businessman / consultant. Lived in some situations for extended periods of time that would make Hugh Hefner proud. (Planning and orchestration is key I remember Lizeth last year in Medellin, after all night, the dresser mirror on the other side of the room was STEAMED UP?!?!? I said. es imposible? She replied, No, mi amor, es posible. We laughed and I thought if there was ever sex Olympics that was GOLD. I experienced the same thing with "Fatima" earlier in the year in Prague ... After that, something sort of clicked. No more one night stands. No more party girls (well, this is not really "time tested" ... it is just where I am at now)

I am American, but that does not describe me any longer. 47 years old. Speak English and conversational in Spanish.

Medellin is beat for gringos unless you know people already and have MUCH time. Cali is the most fun you can have on planet earth. I remember after living there for 6 months, I looked at myself in the mirror, and said "OH! So, THAT's the reason Mick Jagger looks the way he does. The DR can be good if you make a substantial investment in time, but the women are a little on the primitive side for my tastes. I love the unchartered areas of Colombia. Armenia, Bucara

BUT, the EE women do it for me. I really never really felt strongly for a latina?!?!? Don't know why. I should have. Meanwhile, a Romanian and an Ukrainian have made me want to become whatever I needed to in order to win their hearts. I guess I am a work in progress...

Post: #22

ZonZon, great story.

Love to hear about Armenia! I feel really called to go there.

is Bucara, Uzbekistan?

Post: #23

...

Post: #24

(09-30-2012 02:44 PM)tiggaling Wrote:  ZonZon, great story.

Love to hear about Armenia! I feel really called to go there.

is Bucara, Uzbekistan?

Armenia is a city in Colombia as well as the name of a country next to Turkey. He might be talking about the place in Colombia...and Bucara might be short for Bucaramanga in Colombia too.

Post: #25

Armenia is a city in Colombia as well as the name of a country next to Turkey. He might be talking about the place in Colombia...and Bucara might be short for Bucaramanga in Colombia too.

Roger that!

There is a lifestyle imperative and a chick imperative. For life, it is hard for a man with family and business on the east coast of the USA to beat Colombia in the far off places. The climate is terrific, the people friendly, the woman ... there are tons. I have a friend who put together a web site, http://www.LindaPop.com It is not hard stuff. The point I want to make is that ALL the talent on those pages came from Cali only. It is representative of Colombia.

(AGAIN, it is a shame, and somewhat a mystery why I can not find LTR satisfaction in this gene pool. I guess it is my curse? Worse things could happen )