Post: #1

http://elitedaily.com/elite/2012/free-sex/

Basically he says that no matter what your doing, you still paying for it.

Personally I've seen too many broke (alpha) guys pull seriously hot chicks. And not spend a single dime on them. In fact, the fact the less money the spend, the more the girl likes them. Someone should invite this guy to take the "red" pill.

What do you guys think? Are we "always" paying for it directly or indirectly?

Post: #2

People that spit out the old adages "we're all whores" or "everyone pays one way or the other" are often justifying their own behavior. They take the tiny grain of truth in either statement and make it an unquestionable fact that applies to everyone in all interactions with women. You can definitely get yours without spending money directly on chicks. Granted, life in general costs - no one can coast through totally free, but the slickest cats can get through spending on THEMSELVES, without shelling out for chicks, or spending very strategically on them.

Post: #3

I think the 'everyone pays for it' meme is fucking retarded. The reason I'm right is because if you have to jump through massive linguistic hoops to come to a conclusion, it's a load of shit. In this example, you have to completely redefine what 'paying' is, what 'exchange' is, and so on and so forth.

If you spend time with a girl and then have sex, what have you paid? Time? Time that you were going to 'spend' anyway? She'll have paid that too. If a girl comes to your place, is she 'paying' to have sex with you in the steps she walks to your house? It's retarded.

Ever bought your mom a christmas present? You're obviously paying for her company. Ever asked your dad for some advice? He's paying you for being his son. Fucking stupid pseudo-intellectualism with no regard for any sort of logical thinking whatsoever.

Post: #4

It's a line that both justifies A) paying for sex and B) settling for some harpie shrew girlfriend. And you hear it from guys that have experienced neither A) easy sex with an attractive non-pro stranger or B) a sweet, feminine girlfriend. Or, on the rare occasion, really rich guys who actually can't be bothered with "gaming" anyone.

Also, quoting this precious hamster dump from the facebook comment thread from a "dominant" girl who has no doubt provided many a man with free sex:

"p.s. not all WOMEN NOT GIRLS are submissive , little whores for sale.i'm a dominant woman and I only date submissive males.i work HARD for a living so I don't have to protitute myself to sexually desperate losers who have to pay for it like the guy who wrote the above article.i work hard SO I CAN AFFORD TO DATE & HAVE SEX WITH WHO I WANT TO.I'M NOT A PROSTITUTE FOR SALE.THE GUY WHO WROTE THE ABOVE ARTICLE CANT GET SEX WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT BECAUSE HE HAS NO CHARM OR CHARISMA.that's HIS fault.Barry Manilow & Justin Bieber CAN GET ALL THE FREE SEX THEY WANT.but they're not losers who have to pay for it.like the guy who wrote the above article."

Post: #5

What a herb. He has to change the definition of free to include the petrol I used to get there, wtf.

This kind of bullshit word wrangling is typical from his community.

Post: #6

You have 2 things you can spend on a woman/women
- money
- time

Some dudes spend both and get no one woman, much less lots of women.

Some dudes spend money and buy sex. P4P

Some dudes spend time and effort to amass a certain amount of money or power, to attract women in general. - this is the goal of our society, men build stuff to attract women and the species propagates. This most men in America, probably most men in the world.

Some dudes spend time/effort and money to get ONE woman. A subset of the above group, but all of us have been here at one time or another. For some, this is their way of life. I dare say, this is most American guys. They spend their best years, 10-15 years, trying to nail down less than 7-8 chicks.

Some dudes spend time and effort to become attractive w/o having to spend money on women. This is the game.

They spend their money on themselves. They work out, they learn to be charming...back in the day, this was described as "PUA is the new AFC".

Instead of working a day job and trying to score on a Friday night, you basically worked a 2nd and 3rd shift at night conforming yourself to what women really want. (as opposed to the poor guy doing IT work because he thinks women want a good provider.)

The Game was basically Man's version of Cosmo, how to look better and act better to attract women. You muscled up, you got better looking, you learned to delight women with your conversation by learning how to surprise them at both an emotional and cognitive level.

You're still spending money, time, and effort on women, even if it is indirect.

The next level up are dudes who spend time and effort to do some 3rd thing where women are secondary. This 3rd thing attracts attention, sometimes fame. Attention is attractive to women. Fame is attractive to women, just like money and power. This is your high school athlete, lead guitar singer, or super famous rapper.

The next level up, is the dude who spends neither time nor effort to attract women. He has that look, that swagger, that right phenotype...He attracts many. This is ultimate the goal of people who use game. To no longer have to put in the work to attract women.

And the mythical level is the King.

The King chooses, she submits. She doesn't do it hoping to become the queen, she does it because she has no other choice.

The difference between the king and all of the rest, is most dudes are attracting. They are active in terms of choosing who to sell their goods to, and with time they become more efficient and more effective - but it's still selling. The chick still gets a decision.

Even the most natural of naturals, the most rich, the most famous, still have to attract the women. These guys can only choose from those women who find them attractive.

Let's be clear, they have a much larger field than the average Joe who toils endlessly at some dead end job and hopes to get lucky on the weekend, but largely the ball is still in the women's court. There are women out there who don't find Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Obama, Bill Gates, etc, attractive.

The King does not give her a choice. She gives herself up to something greater than herself.

Where does that leave us?

Kings, are few and far between. Even today's royalty, Dukes and Emirs, don't have the same power over pussy like they did. And for the most part, this option is closed off.

Get amazingly rich or famous - lottery
Be attractive since birth - genetic lottery

Spend 40 years bouncing from job to job, trying to amass wealth (typically for someone else!), in the hopes that your being able to provide is enough for some woman to offer up her womb for a few years?

All that is left is Game.
In my mind, It is the least despicable of the alternatives.

Some of the red pill is understanding the hamster and how crazy she really is.

But the other part of the red pill is understanding that you can never coast. You can never ease up.

If you want pussy, on your terms, you can never turn back to your old life of sloth and comfort.

Make no mistake, convincing yourself to buy nicer shoes, to choose between Paleo and pizza is costing you. You are paying.

You are giving up some of your time, your options, your freedom, in order to get pussy in your life.

This price is something real and tangible.
Player's developed a philosophical belief once they realized this.

Abundance mentality. I have so much, there are so many women, that the price that I pay is small to the value I receive.

Only you can decide whether it's worth it.

You can run through enough broads and find yourself doing it, just to be doing something, not because you savor the kill, or the hunt.

WIA

Post: #7

The men who say "everyone pays one way or the other" are the ones who pay the most.

Post: #8

i agree.sex isn't free. i spent hundreds in plane tickets to get to places.

i spent hundreds of hours learning language.

hours of practicing game.

while those things aren't direct payment to a woman for sex..it's still a payment in some way.

free sex would be..pussy falling into your lap v while you were taking a nap in the middle of the street

Post: #9

It's ridiculous to believe you are not actively paying for sex. Whatever you do, you are INVESTING..money, time, emotions. Maybe once in a blue moon you get a quick SNL, but we all know that not the status quo. Take your head off your ass and start thinking, this is just how humans work..everything's a value exchange. Just because you're not leaving money on the nightstand doesn't mean it's free.

Post: #10

Looking back at my life, I've had a awful lot of bangs that happen in one of two ways:

1. Meet girl. Hang out for drinks. Split the bill and bounce back to one of our places for sex.

2. Mert girl. Tell her to come over and bring a bottle of wine. We drink the wine and have sex.

Any definition of paying for sex that includes the above two scenarios is so semantically tortured as to be meaningless.

Post: #11

Post: #12

I think you have to make several very presumptuous cognitive leaps to say "you always pay for sex." You get to a point to where you are attempting to qualify irrelevant actions as an investment in some pussy for the mere fact that you getting pussy is the desired outcome. If you're prepared to make those type of assertions the justification eventually falls flat because then both parties are paying each other for the same thing. No one is the seller. There are just two buyers.
I don't think that putting forth an effort to get up in some chick's guts is equivalent to "paying" for pussy; it's quite the contrary. You "pay" for pussy so you don't have to put out any effort. You get a hooker because you don't want to take a girl to dinner, learn her native tongue, or fly 2000 miles to meet her. Do I put forth effort in order to maximize my chances of smashing some ass? Of course. Does it cost money? What doesn't? But I wouldn't say because I work my ass off and drop a little coin to fuck every chick I could possibly get my dick in, that that's the same as some clown giving a hooker $20 for a blowjob. Far from it.

Post: #13

Dude who wrote that article is a fucking provider crybaby.

Post: #14

(12-02-2012 12:12 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  i agree.sex isn't free. i spent hundreds in plane tickets to get to places.

i spent hundreds of hours learning language.

hours of practicing game.

while those things aren't direct payment to a woman for sex..it's still a payment in some way.

free sex would be..pussy falling into your lap v while you were taking a nap in the middle of the street

Yes, but learning languages and practising game is for yourself, to raise your value as a person. You should look at it that way.

Post: #15

(12-02-2012 07:51 AM)Roosh Wrote:  The men who say "everyone pays one way or the other" are the ones who pay the most.

They're rationalising it by pretending everyone else is a sad cunt like them.

The beta male hampster at work.

Post: #16

"There is a little bit of the whore in all of us" K.F.B.Packer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVIOmU3l0Zo

I miss the big fella!

"Lifes about, shooting your load"

Post: #17

(12-02-2012 07:51 AM)Roosh Wrote:  The men who say "everyone pays one way or the other" are the ones who pay the most.

I wasn't content with just giving this witticism a like.

Post: #18

Kitsune Wrote:If you spend time with a girl and then have sex, what have you paid? Time? Time that you were going to 'spend' anyway?

Exactly. "Spending time on women"? What the fuck? Can you somehow "save" time by not going after women? There's no such thing as "spending" time.

Either your doing something you enjoy, or you're wasting your time.

Post: #19

Guys are delusional if they think sex is free. You do always pay for it. Either in time, money or emotionally, you will pay for it. Its just the way it is.

Who here actually enjoys gaming chicks? I like to fuck women, I dont like having to jump through hoops to do it. Jumping through hoops and running the broad through a process is not what I consider an effective use of time. Its a necessary evil because I need to scratch an itch. I would honestly rather have a few beers with my mates than some strange chick who is just as vapid as the next. Fuck enough women and you realise that the differences between them are so superficial that you might as well be talking to an android. Sometimes you meet the odd ones who are tolerable, but unless I am in Russia or EE the women are oxygen thieves and I would rather watch a movie for 2 hours than listen to her dreary life story.

You do always pay for it though, and anyone who thinks otherwise does not value their time or their time is simply not worth much.

If you make 50 bucks an hour, and it takes you 5-6 hours to land the lay, its 300 bucks. What if you make more than that? Well that bitch is cutting into your time and its costing you. Now throw into the mix the fact that a lot of you guys wont be banging every chick you put effort into. Work out how many hours you lose to bang a broad and understand that it is a time sink.

Everyone here likes to talk about great apartments for logistics. Good venue selection, good clothes, time in the gym, etc. All of this is again time spent and money spent chasing pussy. You might not be paying the bitch direct, but you might as well be. You still paid for that plane ticket. You still rented that apartment because of how much better it was for pussy, not other facets of your life.

Then there are the costs of going out. Drinks, entrance, taxis, etc. Even if you are not buying drinks for the chicks, its money out of your pocket and lost time while you look for new gash.

If you are banging the same broad for a while, the cost per lay is going to drop. At the same time though, this can require a little bit of maintenance. If you are gaming new chicks all the time, your costs are high. If its the same chick you are banging, there is no real variety but the cost drops.

Post: #20

(12-02-2012 11:19 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Kitsune Wrote:If you spend time with a girl and then have sex, what have you paid? Time? Time that you were going to 'spend' anyway?

Exactly. "Spending time on women"? What the fuck? Can you somehow "save" time by not going after women? There's no such thing as "spending" time.

Either your doing something you enjoy, or you're wasting your time.

Amen.

Post: #21

(12-02-2012 12:12 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  i agree.sex isn't free. i spent hundreds in plane tickets to get to places.

i spent hundreds of hours learning language.

hours of practicing game.

while those things aren't direct payment to a woman for sex..it's still a payment in some way.

free sex would be..pussy falling into your lap v while you were taking a nap in the middle of the street

Payment? Is this not called self improvement?
are you not spending hundreds on plane tickets for personal enjoyment?

How is any of that spending money on a woman?

Post: #22

How about the reverse saying?

"There's no such thing as a free pussy"

Post: #23

Human socializing and community is all a series of transactions on different levels. The key is however to make the sensation of being with you the most potent form of payment. While the sentiment expressed by the guy in the op's link have a morsel of truth to them the dude feels like a total chump by whining by the state of things rather than using his insights to work for him.

Post: #24

I think we need to distinguish paying from investing.

When a loser pays money to a woman to sleep with her he pays. He just throws his money away and gets nothing besides a short temporary pleasure.

When a smart guy trains in gym, develops his communication skills, buys custom suits e.t.c he doesn't pay. He invests. He saves the money. He turns his money into muscles, skills and clothes that will be with him for a long time and will allow him to get women without throwing away his money.

Don't buy fish, buy fishing tools.

When you pay you lose what you paid. When you invest you get back what you spent with a bonus.

Huge difference.

Post: #25

Hooligan Harry - I couldn't think of a skill more worthy of one's time, than fulfilling your biological imperative with ease.

Nothing of value ever comes easy.