Post: #1

Language is a crucial part of game. I believe that understanding what, how, and why people say things and communicate is key towards improving. In fact, when people dis me for what I do and call it PUA, or other pejorative terms, I explain that all I'm doing is trying to get better at communicating with women.

I believe that game can be understood as an attempt to achieve a direct communication with girls. In this light, all the failures and rejections are seen essentially as miscommunication.

So, I'm creating this thread to discuss language/linguistics.

First topic that I've been thinking about is why do gay guys imitate the way women talk. This made me think, why do women talk like that in the first place?

My theory is that it's not that gay guys are imitating women; I think that both women and gay guys talk with the accent a of a submissive.

That nagging, slight lispy sound has an almost childlike quality.

Post: #2

Gay guys do it for attention pure and simple. How many of those flamers sounded normal the first 20 years of their lives and the second they come out of the closet they magically develop a lisp. Oh and not to mention bent wrists.

I guess as soon as you decide to be openly gay your brain has a mild stroke and you no longer talk normal or have any ligament or tendon strength in your wrists

Post: #3

On the other hand, there are butch dykes who take up "masculine" ways of speaking. This usually has a more laconic, dismissive tone.

I guess this just means that masculine is dominant and feminine is submissive.

Post: #4

I've only met a small handful of women who actually talked in that irritating tone. Not surprisingly, all of them had a large network of girly gay friends.

Post: #5

I think this thread has great potential.

For me, the most fascinating thing about language is etymology - as Wikipedia defines it...

Quote:... the study of the history of words, their origins, and how their form and meaning have changed over time.

Post: #6

It is a submissive, non threatening tone AND it is definitely optional.
I've known gay guys who are "bottoms " don't speak like that.

Post: #7

Did it ever occur to you that maybe these guys know that they sound like a flamer if they allow themselves to speak natural and so they suppress that style of talking until they come out of the closet?

(12-03-2012 03:04 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Gay guys do it for attention pure and simple. How many of those flamers sounded normal the first 20 years of their lives and the second they come out of the closet they magically develop a lisp. Oh and not to mention bent wrists.

I guess as soon as you decide to be openly gay your brain has a mild stroke and you no longer talk normal or have any ligament or tendon strength in your wrists

Post: #8

(12-04-2012 12:58 AM)MSW2007 Wrote:  I think this thread has great potential.

For me, the most fascinating thing about language is etymology - as Wikipedia defines it...

Quote:... the study of the history of words, their origins, and how their form and meaning have changed over time.

Etymology is a great way of learning and remembering foreign words. The more Latin I learn, the easier it is to decipher other Romance languages. Likewise, studying German led me to look at Old English and some other Germanic tongues, so I can make a guess at even unknown English words.

It works differently for Asian languages of course. But I focused on reading rather than speaking, so you can get a vague idea if you know your kanji etymology.

Post: #9

(12-04-2012 12:58 AM)MSW2007 Wrote:  I think this thread has great potential.

For me, the most fascinating thing about language is etymology - as Wikipedia defines it...

Quote:... the study of the history of words, their origins, and how their form and meaning have changed over time.

Etymology is indeed fascinating and very interesting. It's like all the words follow a certain logic.

Post: #10

(12-04-2012 11:59 AM)Technics Wrote:  Did it ever occur to you that maybe these guys know that they sound like a flamer if they allow themselves to speak natural and so they suppress that style of talking until they come out of the closet?

(12-03-2012 03:04 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Gay guys do it for attention pure and simple. How many of those flamers sounded normal the first 20 years of their lives and the second they come out of the closet they magically develop a lisp. Oh and not to mention bent wrists.

I guess as soon as you decide to be openly gay your brain has a mild stroke and you no longer talk normal or have any ligament or tendon strength in your wrists

Is that even possible ? To have a lisp and hide it by talking properly ? I wonder if Jeff Garcia has been playing us all for fools all these years.

Post: #11

Yeah etymology is really interesting. It's strange sometimes how words are absorbed into languages and fascinating at the same time.

For example when the Normans dined at the table in England they would eat mouton, porc and boeuf. When the cook prepared the meal to him it would be sheep, pig and cow. Eventually over time these words got anglicised.

Post: #12

Anyone.. here pic up french as a second language. I mean actually fluent.
I am going to start studying soon.

Post: #13

Yes, Elabayarde, PM me if you're interested in suggestions for how to start off.

Post: #14

sent...

Post: #15

Hey Technics, would you mind sending me what you sent elabayarde, I'm trying to pick up French as well. Thanks.

Post: #16

(12-03-2012 02:48 PM)soup Wrote:  First topic that I've been thinking about is why do gay guys imitate the way women talk. This made me think, why do women talk like that in the first place?

My theory is that it's not that gay guys are imitating women; I think that both women and gay guys talk with the accent a of a submissive.

That nagging, slight lispy sound has an almost childlike quality.

I'm not entirely sure that it this issue is linguistics related. However, I'll take a stab at answering it in a linguistic manner: I think it is to do with the raised inflections of questioning statements.

Women tend to 'half ask' statements where they think they know the answer, but are looking for a frame of reference. This tends to happen in social situations where there isn't a correct answer per se. They don't do it when they ask how the microwave works or which way the kitchen is, for instance.

I imagine gay people who have a similar manner are likely insecure and looking for group acceptance - and probably from an early age, hence it becomes a defining part of their identity. If it is a linguistic issue, I imagine it's the rising tones of questions with a desire to be flamboyant/extroverted. Obviously, not all gays have this because a lot of them have no desire to be socially extroverted/high status.


I dunno though, I've made it all up from the top of my head.
In terms of practical information for us though, I'd say one of the first things that made me more happy in social settings was to get rid of any inflective/questionlike mannerisms in my speech.

Post: #17

Elabayarde & Iwin,

Done.

Post: #18

Do any of you guys ever get the feeling that learning a new language is like performing a magic trick?

Neither of my parents speak anything but English, so I grew up in a monolingual home. As a kid I was always fascinated listening to people talk in foreign languages, even though I didn't have a clue what they were saying. When I finally began studying Spanish, and realized that yes, maybe I could learn another language, I thought it was cool as fuck.

Warning: I may be right now.