Post: #1

I admit, I'm kind of just venting a little bit because I'm sure this has been talked about in other threads. But gaming girls online, like Match, P.O.F., etc... I don't know how guys swear by it because I probably have the worst luck with them among anyone I know. Even though I've hooked up with 2 or 3 girls from those exact sites a long time ago, I think that was just luck. I didn't have pictures up and I impressed them with my game (I guess) so much so that I got their numbers and ended up meeting them in person before we hooked up. But I can tell you that I have never got a girl from any site that has pictures of me up. It's almost like it's subconsciously, made me feel less confidence in being photogenic than before these sites were created, know what I mean.

Happened to me recently. I joined Match again for the first time in a long time. And I made sure to not put any pics up. I even mentioned on my profile, I'm just checking things out. Not really into online stuff. I guess this girl really liked my profile because she emailed me. She was actually so cute, I thought it was spam. Sure enough, it was real. We talked back and forth and by the third email, I got her phone number. We texted and called for a couple days until she started hounding me for a picture. Of course, I resisted saying nah, I'm cuter in person, etc., etc. She laughed and still talked to me regardless, but kept asking here and there. I finally gave in. Needless to say, that very same day, she "coincidentally" didn't talk to me as much as she did prior to the pic. Didn't happen right away, but the time between texts gradually got longer and longer as the night went on.

But what's funny is I can get really attractive girls to give me eye contact and stuff in person. I wish I could attach a picture of this most recent redhead chick a while back that was staring at me so hard, her friend noticed. I would be jealous of myself if I ever had her as my girlfriend. That's how hot she was. Unbelievably hot. Yet when those same exact girls see me in a picture, they're not interested. I say to myself, I'm the same person, picture or not, so it's kind of ironic. I guess the bright side is it's better than the opposite situation where they like your pics, but not in person. But still, I just wish I was like some guys that have luck in both scenarios. What's the secret?

Post: #2

In my opinion, those sites are only good if you have good pics. Those chicks ill makes decision based on he pictures you post. In person action is almost lays easier tan trying o initiate game online.... Unless she is a complete hoe!

Post: #3

very true man. i "think" i figured out what i did wrong because we actually been talking more since yesterday. at one point, she called me after the texting got old. to be continued... lol.

Post: #4

I'd probably have good luck gaming online but I'm turned off by how biased it is, much like with facebook. I'm not happy as "one of her prospects", even if it gets my dick wet.

Post: #5

Out of curiosity, how what is the ratio of men to women on an online dating site like Match or Okstupid or Plenty of Shrimp?

Is it even?

Twice as many guys?

Worse than that?

Anyone know?

Post: #6

(12-18-2012 09:37 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Out of curiosity, how what is the ratio of men to women on an online dating site like Match or Okstupid or Plenty of Shrimp?

Is it even?

Twice as many guys?

Worse than that?

Anyone know?

For obvious reasons these sites are never going to release any official data on their ratios, but way back when I did a little test that led me to believe the ratio is about 4:1.

Match had a feature where you can type in keywords and anyone that mentioned that would show up in your search results. So I picked a gender-neutral interest like "beach", "Vegas" or "sushi", words that shouldn't have any selection bias(obvious don't choose pilates or UFC). Four times as many men came up as women when using gender unbiased search words.

Post: #7

(12-18-2012 09:47 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 09:37 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Out of curiosity, how what is the ratio of men to women on an online dating site like Match or Okstupid or Plenty of Shrimp?

Is it even?

Twice as many guys?

Worse than that?

Anyone know?

For obvious reasons these sites are never going to release any official data on their ratios, but way back when I did a little test that led me to believe the ratio is about 4:1.

Match had a feature where you can type in keywords and anyone that mentioned that would show up in your search results. So I picked a gender-neutral interest like "beach", "Vegas" or "sushi", words that shouldn't have any selection bias(obvious don't choose pilates or UFC). Four times as many men came up as women when using gender unbiased search words.

This makes sense. Consider that even guys in relationships will likely keep their online dating profiles up. By contrast, even girls who are perennial online daters will periodically take down their profiles when in LTR's, at least ones with guys they're actually into. Since women are hypergamous, they'll be more likely to not be on an online dating site when they're with an alpha whereas a guy with a hot girlfriend is still likely to be open to getting it on the side.

Post: #8

(12-18-2012 09:47 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 09:37 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Out of curiosity, how what is the ratio of men to women on an online dating site like Match or Okstupid or Plenty of Shrimp?

Is it even?

Twice as many guys?

Worse than that?

Anyone know?

For obvious reasons these sites are never going to release any official data on their ratios, but way back when I did a little test that led me to believe the ratio is about 4:1.

Match had a feature where you can type in keywords and anyone that mentioned that would show up in your search results. So I picked a gender-neutral interest like "beach", "Vegas" or "sushi", words that shouldn't have any selection bias(obvious don't choose pilates or UFC). Four times as many men came up as women when using gender unbiased search words.

Well, I think we solved one of the forums great mysteries here.

No wonder you guys hate online dating so much.

How much fun would you have in a Nightclub with 4 guys to every girl?

Post: #9

You'll only really enjoy dating sites if you're cut up and have a decent face or live in some lame city like DC where it's easy to differentiate yourself from the high number of nerds.

Post: #10

I won't even use a dating site in the states. I tried it once. There are too many low value girls (or girls you think are high value cause they used to be skinny in their picture and when I met them they are about 50 lbs heavier.), and too many undersexed dudes. So I will only use dating sites when I am traveling, because higher value girls will actually use it. Whether for finding a foreigner, because they simply have the money to do it, or cause they work online. There are high value girls in the states on their but it is much more rare. Anyways, I've had a lot of bangs from online game. I will tell you that I only message about the top 5%, and that I have a high success rate, but it all stems on 1 thing....

You have to webcam with them. If you have good game, then you have good body language. If you webcam with a girl, you can 90% game her like you would in person. Only thing that is missing is kino. This is the thing that changes these over messaged girls (gettings 100's of messages a day) from putting up with talking to me, to begging to talk and meet with me. Also in a girls mind, if she has not webcammed with you, you are only a picture. You're not even really a real person in her mind. Just a photo. You have to make a strong impression and connection. The only way to do that is to webcam. It's like trying to build attraction through text messages, you are only dumb enough to try when you are starting out in game. It's very difficult to build attraction with the top girls on dating sites without being able to run full game (minus kino). Hence why webcamming is the #1 most important thing when it comes to online dating.

In fact, I have looked back over my many dates set up from online game. ALL of my hottest girls I webcammed with, except for one and she was a nympho, so she just wanted sex. One girl has scammed me. She agreed to meet before she had webcammed with me. 95% of the girls I meet I have webcammed with. I have witnessed girls barely replying to me, then, after webcamming they won't stop messaging me. All of a sudden they want to meet. The ONLY reason I get the top 5% of girls on dating websites is because I webcam and show that I have game.

You have to look at the type of competition you will be facing on these websites. 80% of guys will be below average in looks, and 10% of the good looking guys, are only on this website because they have no social skills and game. That leaves 10% of guys for any competition at all. Of that 10%, 1% will have decent game. That leaves 1 out of 100 guys being legit competition. But the only way that figure even matters, is if you webcam with her. Because you can fake social skills over text. They can't read your body language. Reading body language is the #1 lie detector women use. A guy can pretend to be high value over text, but his body language will give it away if they meet in cam or person.

Most the girls I meet get over 100 messages a day. So what happens is that the real goal is getting them to webcam with me, not getting them to meet me. The meetup is easy once they have webcammed. To get these girls who are receiving ridiculous amounts of attention from men I need a hook. Something that will make them want to webcam with me. Not make them want to meet me, I just have to get to the webcam stage which can be hard when I'm competing with 100 guys every day. So, while in conversation I will drop in a little hook. These hooks work best if they flow, for example, she says "Yeah, maybe we can be friends." Then I will reply "Yeah maybe we can, but I warn you, I'm much better looking in person (not true, it's just a hook). We will meet and you will find my good looks irresistible." It's a lie, but to hook these girls who get 100+ messages a day you have to play dirty. It won't be enough to meet her, but it will be enough to webcam with her, as she will be curious if it is true. When you get to webcamming she will see you are the 1 in a 100. Then your date will be in the bag. You can use other hooks too. Start talking about muscles then mention how you can make your pecks dance. I can barely make my pecks dance and it looks so weak when I do, but I get to webcam with a girl and it's pretty funny so I get her laughing. Then, I just game.

So to sum it up. You need real world game before you can succeed with the top girls online. Once you have it, you just need to hook them in whatever way possible, then webcam and show that real world game that they are not used to seeing, especially online.

Post: #11

Yea, it's definitely tough. I mean it seems like the last couple pics I put on there have been working somewhat. But I'm trying to make myself a promise that once I move in a few months, I'm going to try my best to say off those online dating sites. Because it's like.. if you know that online game is always available as a last resort, then it's going to slightly take away from the motivation or drive you would put in to real world game. And even, slightly, is enough to be the difference between getting a girl and not.

If there is a percentage of guys that have luck getting more attractive girls online than they would in person, then it must be a very small percentage. Lol. For me, it has always been the other way around.

Post: #12

you haven't done it for a while? you should realize that's how it is if you do it for a longtime.

Don't take it like a fishing where you throw the bait and wait for them to bite in short period of time.

I take it as 'fish trap'. I just check it sometimes. I don't expect immediate result.
If I catch the fish, that's good. if not, that's ok too.
you should be really relaxed with the outcome imo

Post: #13

I can relate to the OP. I've had the same happen. We exchange emails for several days, she's flirtatious, she asks for pics, I send pic, she disappears.

The problem is girls project. They see your picture and make all kinds of judgements about you. If you're a minority they'll stereotype you instantly and assume all the worst. Girls are much more shallow and racist than men (she'll say you're not her type).

Has anyone ever met up with a girl who hasn't seen their pic yet? This is the best strategy for less attractive/less photogenic/non-white guys to get dates and, once you get her in-person alone, win her over with "game".

A few months back I bedded a girl whom I met online. She didn't know what I looked like before meeting me in person. It was a pure blind date. I'm positive she would not have met up with me had she seen my pic beforehand since I'm not white.

Post: #14

(12-19-2012 08:49 PM)Apollo2 Wrote:  Has anyone ever met up with a girl who hasn't seen their pic yet? This is the best strategy for less attractive/less photogenic/non-white guys to get dates...

Ironically, that happened to me twice, almost 3, but the third girl asked for a pic right before meeting even though we still hooked up. First time, I made a three hour drive out of state. Blonde chick, about my age at the time. We talked for 4-5 days on the phone, texting, calling, etc. prior to that. And I just up and said I want to come out there. Rented a car, spent a day and a half up there, sealed the deal. Second time was same scenario, brunette, few years younger.. but she lived closer. She was hotter than I thought and smelled good as hell. Her pictures were a "6", but an "8" in person.

Don't let these instances fool you though. I don't got it like "that". Lol. This was all back in the era when this stuff was.. maybe not new, but fairly new. Between 2004 - 2005. No camera phones or iPhones back then, just texting (barely). For some reason, nowadays, it's almost impossible. Again, at least for me. I'm sure there are still some guys that can pull it off. But yea, I don't know if it's because the novelty has worn off or if girls are more used to these kind of sites.

Post: #15

I burned out on online dating. I get laid more easily by going out, and don't put up with the bullshit of online dating. In my most recent bout with online dating, the girls were flakier than ever - got a bunch of numbers and very few dates. At least with chicks you meet out at night, they usually won't agree to a date over the phone unless they're actually going to go. You have no such assurance with chicks you meet online. These online girls will think you're amazing, laugh at everything you say, and STILL flake on you. More importantly, in a bar scenario, you will probably seal the deal that night or it never happens. So night game has a great element of 'closure' that online dating sorely lacks.

Plus, online dating takes the fun out of occasional dumpster diving charity work. The moment you've got to work at it, you start to hate yourself. But if a girl in a bar needs some love and you're bored, you don't even need to drop a dollar or exchange numbers. No muss, no fuss.

Post: #16

I agree with the other posters, you have to take it for what it is.

Even if you are the coolest most interesting guy she's getting inundated with messages every hour. The signal to noise ratio is terrible.

Girls disappear, flake, and lose interest constantly. I wouldn't judge success or failure by that.

An attractive girl on the internet is like the girl in the club who's been hit on by 20 guys, except for the internet girl it happens ALL DAY EVERYDAY. Because of this fact, some things just come down to pure luck and timing.

I judge my success by what happens during the meetup. I've had very few bad dates in years of online dating because I have very high confidence in my game in person. It's your social skills that will determine your success and carry you forward.

If you're having trouble getting them out, I'd analyze your profile and everything you did before that point.

I've noticed an interesting fact. If the girl responds to my initial message and asks a question about me, then the odds I meet up with her is extremely high.

The other thing is finding your niche market of girls. Take a look at your natural vibe. If you have the good guy type of vibe(which I do) you'll get a specific type of girl. Some of these chicks will still put out on the first or 2nd date anyway, but some will try to rope you into a relationship with 'How was your day?' texts and other tactics. Even after being in the game a while now, the girls have no idea of my player ways until I get them into bed, then the lightbulb goes off.

I used to think this was a disadvantage, but I've found that it's more difficult for me to go against my natural vibe. I've shaped much of my game by being very chill and unassumming and used it to my advantage.

Post: #17

In this year I have gamed online relentlessly and gotten dates with about 25 girls. I kissed about 75% and fucked 9. I guess online works if you are pretty good looking. I just posted shirtless pics since I have a six pack and sometimes girls would contact me. All the girls where ghetto black chicks though. The problem is I spent way too much time on there and never gamed in person so it wasn't healthy socially. I just quit so I would be motivated to break out of my shell and game in person. I had 3 in a month from online. But it is time to face my fear

Post: #18

Threads like this are soul crushing.

Lift your skirt and grab your balls already boys.

APPROACH.

This "Facebook game" and online dating shit is fucking homosexual. Unless you are in a country and dont speak the local language, there is no reason to be doing anything online.

You need to get over this crutch and these social media and online dating threads need to get destroyed now. If you cant get over your fears to approach women everywhere then its always going to be a struggle. And anyone who says they do both is talking shit, because no man who has overcome his fear of approaching women is ever going to waste his time chasing women he has not put his eyes on yet.

Post: #19

(12-20-2012 08:56 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  And anyone who says they do both is talking shit, because no man who has overcome his fear of approaching women is ever going to waste his time chasing women he has not put his eyes on yet.

I agree with everything you said except this. I do both and I bet plenty of guys on here do too.

Post: #20

Went on 4 dates from online dating recently. All kiss closes, 1 I fingered in the bar and 1 I fucked. In this time I also gamed a waitress at a restaurant and fucked her a week later and have her coming back for more.

In person is the only way. I've had my fun experimenting with the online stuff now but I'm pissed off with it. Too many self important girls thinking they're the prize.

Post: #21

(12-20-2012 09:03 PM)houston Wrote:  

(12-20-2012 08:56 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  And anyone who says they do both is talking shit, because no man who has overcome his fear of approaching women is ever going to waste his time chasing women he has not put his eyes on yet.

I agree with everything you said except this. I do both and I bet plenty of guys on here do too.

Where do you find the time?

I cannot imagine why you would want to spend time searching through their shitty profiles and then having to email or message back and forth while you try and work a few warm leads. Then you have to arrange a meet and hope its not a 10 ton behemoth that pitches up after uploading 5 year old photos.

Post: #22

(12-20-2012 09:37 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

(12-20-2012 09:03 PM)houston Wrote:  

(12-20-2012 08:56 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  And anyone who says they do both is talking shit, because no man who has overcome his fear of approaching women is ever going to waste his time chasing women he has not put his eyes on yet.

I agree with everything you said except this. I do both and I bet plenty of guys on here do too.

Where do you find the time?

I cannot imagine why you would want to spend time searching through their shitty profiles and then having to email or message back and forth while you try and work a few warm leads. Then you have to arrange a meet and hope its not a 10 ton behemoth that pitches up after uploading 5 year old photos.

The only way this may work is if one is hitting up lizards while at work/in class online. I used to do it but I took a page out of the G-Manifesto's book and stopped hitting them up. My conversion rate was terrible and I was getting the bottom of the barrel.

Post: #23

(12-20-2012 08:56 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  Threads like this are soul crushing.

Lift your skirt and grab your balls already boys.

APPROACH.

This "Facebook game" and online dating shit is fucking homosexual. Unless you are in a country and dont speak the local language, there is no reason to be doing anything online.

You need to get over this crutch and these social media and online dating threads need to get destroyed now. If you cant get over your fears to approach women everywhere then its always going to be a struggle. And anyone who says they do both is talking shit, because no man who has overcome his fear of approaching women is ever going to waste his time chasing women he has not put his eyes on yet.

This is some tough love. And why Hooligan Harry is so vital to this forum.

He doesn't sugar coat it.

One funny thing I have found about this forum, is I have gotten attacked for using "crutches" ie Cigarettes, Money, Custom Suits.

I bet the guys attacking me are using "Facebook Game", Okstupid and Plenty of Shrimp as their primary attack mode.

Post: #24

(12-20-2012 10:01 PM)Moma Wrote:  The only way this may work is if one is hitting up lizards while at work/in class online. I used to do it but I took a page out of the G-Manifesto's book and stopped hitting them up. My conversion rate was terrible and I was getting the bottom of the barrel.

Its always going to be bottom of the barrel because regardless of how acceptable it may be now, its acceptable only by rationalisation.

How ugly is a woman that she needs to advertise her availability to the world? A woman of worth is being pursued always, which means that the decent looking women on those sites are either looking to attention whore or they are looking to hookup with the top 1% of the men who are cleaning up on those sites.

Think about the average guy on that site. Scared shitless to approach in a club, let alone the street or coffee shop. These are the white knights and pasty gamer geeks, and you get lumped into that category from the word go regardless of how different you may be. I dont give a fuck what you do, whats on your profile, any of that shit. Its gay, and from the get go the womans value is far higher than yours.

When you approach the outcome is dependent on a few simple things.

Is she attracted to you physically?
Is she available?
Are you socially capable and not some retard

If the answer to all three is yes, then the next time you meet the bitch, if she does not flake, you know that

1) She thinks you are fuckable
2) She is looking to get fucked by someone new
3) She does not go into it wondering if you are a retard, she has probably been building you up in her head already.

Honestly, I used to think that guys were using bars and clubs as a crutch when it came to approaching. These days, they are retreating even further into their shells and relying on online approaches and interaction.

Post: #25

(12-20-2012 09:37 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

(12-20-2012 09:03 PM)houston Wrote:  

(12-20-2012 08:56 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  And anyone who says they do both is talking shit, because no man who has overcome his fear of approaching women is ever going to waste his time chasing women he has not put his eyes on yet.

I agree with everything you said except this. I do both and I bet plenty of guys on here do too.

Where do you find the time?

I cannot imagine why you would want to spend time searching through their shitty profiles and then having to email or message back and forth while you try and work a few warm leads. Then you have to arrange a meet and hope its not a 10 ton behemoth that pitches up after uploading 5 year old photos.

For sure, you're right. I ask myself why the hell I'm doing it sometimes too. I usually get on when I'm fucked up at home or just bored. I would never recommend someone just getting into "the game" to start online. Do that shit years later when you get a good feel for how to talk to girls so you know how to escalate right away after meeting them. I have no problem going outside and talking to girls but I grew up with barely using online sites.