Post: #1

1. Which one of these 3 is the most brutal?
2. Which one is the most difficult?
3. How many days a week do you have to practice to get good?

Somebody told me Krav Maga is the deadliest, and it's also used by military special forces throughout the world.

Post: #2

Are you talking about self-defense purposes or for beating somebody up?

Post: #3

1. Krav Maga.
2. I don't know.
3. Twice a week.

Krav Maga is your best option, it's practical, easy to learn and your testosterone levels rocket.

Post: #4

Krav Maga is the most brutal

I did BJJ and Muay Thai so that's my preference.

Post: #5

I've only done a little Muay Thai, so I am no expert here, but I would say from what I know Krav Maga is probably the most well rounded of the three and most effective for practical self defense (not mma cage fighting). A lot of guys like to hate on non-MMA martial arts because they think they don't work, well I hate to break it to you, but MMA is a sport with a lot of rules. If you study old school kung fu or other more traditional styles of martial arts there are no rules, that means you can finger jab the eyes, headbutt, strike the throat (destroying the trachea), kick the groin, side kick the knee, etc.

From what I understand Krav has a lot of brutal strikes, such as what I've mentioned that are illegal in fight sports. Also, Krav has elements of standup as well as grappling, whereas Muay Thai is more or less just striking (with exception of the clinch), and BJJ is basically all just grappling. To be a really well rounded martial artist you need to be proficient in striking and grappling.

That said, I'd say Muay Thai is probably one of the best styles for standup and striking, and BJJ is probably THE best for grappling. I know there are some BJJ fans here (RioNomad) who will talk up BJJ and down other martial arts. We all have our biases, I for one am much more interested in stand-up than grappling. If I get taken down to the ground by a BJJ guy, I'm basically fucked.

But... The martial arts academy I've spent most of my time at, most of the guys there train BJJ and BJJ alone. These guys have no stand up striking skill at all, when they occasionally do a stand up style class, (Muay Thai, Kung Fu, Kali), it's just pathetic how bad they are at punching, kicking, etc. BJJ is great if you are one on one, or able to take the guy down, but it won't do you any good if the guy knocks you out from the get go.

Post: #6

@ Luvianka, I would disagree that you only need to train twice a week to get good, unless you are planning on training for 5 plus years, every week, twice a week. Getting good a martial arts is like getting swole at the gym, it take a lot of time, consistency, and hard work. I have been training an average of 5 day a week, every week for about 16 months. There were many days, when I'd train twice in the same day. That said, I'd say I'm decent at the style I study, but I still consider myself a beginner. It will probably be another year or two of training this consistently that I will consider myself to be "good". BJJ from what I understand takes a very long time to master. I know guys who have been training consistently every week for 4-5 years who are still on the purple belt, and still have yet to obtain brown and black. Legit martial arts take a hell of a long time to get good at.

Post: #7

The style does not really matter the teacher, training intensity and sparring are what count

Post: #8

1. krav maga - well rounded, perfect for kicking arse.

2. All are difficult to master, but most difficult to make useful in everyday life would be BJJ becasue you need to go to ground to use it. That's putting yourself in a more dangerous situation than you usually would with stand up styles. Unless you're supremely confident in your ground game, you'd be better served keeping your feet and slugging it out.

3. depends who you're comparing yourself to. Compared to someone with no training, twice a week will make you 'good'. But if you're not happy being just 'good' and want to be 'great', be prepared for at least 4x a week, for years on end.

Post: #9

(12-17-2012 05:11 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  I've only done a little Muay Thai, so I am no expert here, but I would say from what I know Krav Maga is probably the most well rounded of the three and most effective for practical self defense (not mma cage fighting). A lot of guys like to hate on non-MMA martial arts because they think they don't work, well I hate to break it to you, but MMA is a sport with a lot of rules. If you study old school kung fu or other more traditional styles of martial arts there are no rules, that means you can finger jab the eyes, headbutt, strike the throat (destroying the trachea), kick the groin, side kick the knee, etc.

From what I understand Krav has a lot of brutal strikes, such as what I've mentioned that are illegal in fight sports. Also, Krav has elements of standup as well as grappling, whereas Muay Thai is more or less just striking (with exception of the clinch), and BJJ is basically all just grappling. To be a really well rounded martial artist you need to be proficient in striking and grappling.

That said, I'd say Muay Thai is probably one of the best styles for standup and striking, and BJJ is probably THE best for grappling. I know there are some BJJ fans here (RioNomad) who will talk up BJJ and down other martial arts. We all have our biases, I for one am much more interested in stand-up than grappling. If I get taken down to the ground by a BJJ guy, I'm basically fucked.

But... The martial arts academy I've spent most of my time at, most of the guys there train BJJ and BJJ alone. These guys have no stand up striking skill at all, when they occasionally do a stand up style class, (Muay Thai, Kung Fu, Kali), it's just pathetic how bad they are at punching, kicking, etc. BJJ is great if you are one on one, or able to take the guy down, but it won't do you any good if the guy knocks you out from the get go.

I don't believe I have once talked down about a martial art on this forum. Show me the quote where I did, but I don't believe I have. I've always held the stance that someone should try whatever sport seem interesting to them, and then pick which one they like best and feel they will stick with consistently.

Side kick to start out. Trying to claw the face around 30 second mark. Arm broken shortly after. This isn't Road House bro, you aren't destroying anyones trachea.







I had a whole response written out to you, since you decided to call me out, but I'll leave it at that. I've got to find an apartment in BKK today, don't need to be arguing with the Cool-Aid drinking TMA crowd.

Post: #10

five times a week for five years to get good

in either of them

Post: #11

So even though Krav Maga is deadlier, it's easier to master than the other two? Interesting

(12-17-2012 04:23 PM)Mirthless Wrote:  Are you talking about self-defense purposes or for beating somebody up?

Mainly for self-defence. I can beat anyone up with my knuckledusters.

Post: #12

(12-17-2012 11:26 PM)AlbertoDelMuerto Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 04:23 PM)Mirthless Wrote:  Are you talking about self-defense purposes or for beating somebody up?

Beating somebody up.

I mean Krav Maga was designed by the Israeli government to train their elite soldiers to fuck people up - Israelis are always outnumbered so they must always be the most efficient and most brutal. I think Muay Thai and BJJ have more of a competitive sport feeling to them? No argument that somebody trained in BJJ will fuck somebody up, but Krav Maga trains you to disarm people and slit their throats with the edge of your palm - it takes the most effective parts of all martial arts and combines them for fucking up purposes no matter how people come at you.

Post: #13

You want to do all three.

If your Krav Maga instructor is truly good, he'll teach you stuff that you'd never learn in a MT or BJJ class. Effective stuff for real-life self-defense.

On the other hand, anyone with an actual background in Western boxing or MT or BJJ will be at a significant advantage during a Krav Maga class because you've actually practiced (hopefully for many years) basic strikes like jabs, hooks, upper cuts, elbows, knees, leg kicks, chokes, and locks. All of these are used in Krav Maga.

Post: #14

(12-17-2012 11:31 PM)se7en Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 11:26 PM)AlbertoDelMuerto Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 04:23 PM)Mirthless Wrote:  Are you talking about self-defense purposes or for beating somebody up?

Beating somebody up.

I mean Krav Maga was designed by the Israeli government to train their elite soldiers to fuck people up - Israelis are always outnumbered so they must always be the most efficient and most brutal. I think Muay Thai and BJJ have more of a competitive sport feeling to them? No argument that somebody trained in BJJ will fuck somebody up, but Krav Maga trains you to disarm people and slit their throats with the edge of your palm - it takes the most effective parts of all martial arts and combines them for fucking up purposes no matter how people come at you.

it depends if you're trying to f$%k someone up or defend and give yourself an opportunity to exit the situation asap.

i've trained mt, bjj, and krav. mt for 10 years, bjj for 2, and krav for 2. ultimately, krav is way more brutal and effective in terms of real life situations. it teaches you to disarm knives (guns too, but i'm not fucking with anyone who's got a gun), fight with an injury, in a subway, stairwell, attack "soft points," against multiple attackers, etc. krav can maim people and you can really be liable for some serious damage. so if you're the kind of person who can't deliver a measured response, you might want to stick with boxing or mt. i was never taught the slit someone's throat with my palm move.

i've always viewed krav as mostly mt with the rules turned off. some of the krav moves imo are a little too "martial artsy" for me, but i came with a solid mt base so in those cases i'll rely on my speed and striking ability. although bjj is badass and you should learn the basics, in a real situation, i don't want to be on the ground. no ref is going to disqualify the dude's friend(s) from kicking you or smashing a bar stool over your head while you break his arm.

keep in mind, that against the average person, if you know mt/boxing, you can handle yourself just fine. i was lucky to train at a phenomenal krav school in nyc where all the coaches were ex-israeli spec forces with real combat experience. many of them trained mt/bjj so they really combined the useful parts of both into their fighting styles. i've since moved to california and had to go back to mt because the krav schools here in OC suck.

you have to train 3-4x a week to get good and you should be disciplined about sparring regularly in order to sharpen your reaction time and get used to someone attacking you. you can do the drills all day long, but if you close your eyes and rear back when someone is attacking you, game over. it takes time before you can observe while someone is throwing punches at you, defend, and then attack.

Post: #15

When you learn krav maga, how exactly do you learn all these deadly strikes? Presumably you don't actually spar eye gouges and testicle stomps (or whatever) so how do you know how to do it properly when the time comes?

If I go to a kickboxing class and spar, I am going to punch people in the face and get punched in the face. In a defence situation, I'll know how to punch or kick someone and at what level of force to do so. How would I learn that with krav maga?

And if you practice krav maga by doing 'demo' sparring where you pretend - how is that any different from learning to box by watching videos on youtube?

(Don't mean to step on any toes. Am genuinely ignorant and would like to learn these things.)

EDIT: This is double-so for stuff like 'fighting in a stairwell, disarming gunmen and kinfe-wielders' mentioned above. Presumably you're fighting with rubber knives and on cushioned stairwells or whatever. Or am I wrong?

Post: #16

(12-18-2012 01:04 AM)cellblock4 Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 11:31 PM)se7en Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 11:26 PM)AlbertoDelMuerto Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 04:23 PM)Mirthless Wrote:  Are you talking about self-defense purposes or for beating somebody up?

Beating somebody up.

I mean Krav Maga was designed by the Israeli government to train their elite soldiers to fuck people up - Israelis are always outnumbered so they must always be the most efficient and most brutal. I think Muay Thai and BJJ have more of a competitive sport feeling to them? No argument that somebody trained in BJJ will fuck somebody up, but Krav Maga trains you to disarm people and slit their throats with the edge of your palm - it takes the most effective parts of all martial arts and combines them for fucking up purposes no matter how people come at you.

it depends if you're trying to f$%k someone up or defend and give yourself an opportunity to exit the situation asap.

i've trained mt, bjj, and krav. mt for 10 years, bjj for 2, and krav for 2. ultimately, krav is way more brutal and effective in terms of real life situations. it teaches you to disarm knives (guns too, but i'm not fucking with anyone who's got a gun), fight with an injury, in a subway, stairwell, attack "soft points," against multiple attackers, etc. krav can maim people and you can really be liable for some serious damage. so if you're the kind of person who can't deliver a measured response, you might want to stick with boxing or mt. i was never taught the slit someone's throat with my palm move.

i've always viewed krav as mostly mt with the rules turned off. some of the krav moves imo are a little too "martial artsy" for me, but i came with a solid mt base so in those cases i'll rely on my speed and striking ability. although bjj is badass and you should learn the basics, in a real situation, i don't want to be on the ground. no ref is going to disqualify the dude's friend(s) from kicking you or smashing a bar stool over your head while you break his arm.

keep in mind, that against the average person, if you know mt/boxing, you can handle yourself just fine. i was lucky to train at a phenomenal krav school in nyc where all the coaches were ex-israeli spec forces with real combat experience. many of them trained mt/bjj so they really combined the useful parts of both into their fighting styles. i've since moved to california and had to go back to mt because the krav schools here in OC suck.

you have to train 3-4x a week to get good and you should be disciplined about sparring regularly in order to sharpen your reaction time and get used to someone attacking you. you can do the drills all day long, but if you close your eyes and rear back when someone is attacking you, game over. it takes time before you can observe while someone is throwing punches at you, defend, and then attack.

best post of the lot. The effectiveness of each martial art depends on what you want to do.

alberto if you get stopped whilst carrying knuckledusters around in London you will get arrested and charged with carrying a weapon.

Post: #17

The most important question, which one will you be willing to train for a considerable period of time?

Bottom line if you use your head and some common sense most of the time you won't need to use any martial art training.

Post: #18

I think the main problem with krav maga is no one is ever going to spar properly with you. Your never going to have a chance to go full force using that stuff unless your in a very dangerous situation. Better off sticking to muay thai and bjj. Just punch or kick them in throat or balls (something you will be much better at with solid muay thai) in life threatening situation. You do not need a krav maga course to learn that.

Post: #19

Ive done bjj and muay thai, muay thai alone is enough to send an untrained men to the hospital, plus is a lot faster to get at a decent level. I would say that in 4 or 5 months you should be good to go for self defense purposes in a street fight, but in bjj it takes at least a year and a half.
We used to spar against MT guys before i started MT and it was really hard to take them down cause we weren't used to being hit, sure once you get them down the fight is over. But in the standup youre pretty much useless, once you start getting hit you have no guard, you turn your back, your only option is going for the legs it sucks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ0HCXRgU5g

I would suggest learn standup first then ground game, and like cellblock4 said you have to train 3-4 times a week and be consistent.
I wont talk about krav maga cause ive never done it.

Post: #20

the best thing I get from learning Kick boxing is the ability to keep calm in situations where violence may happen, I am confident , calm and not aggressive and this genuinely stops fights from happening. I also get punched in the head too often while sparring because I am always fighting better fighters than me and it takes away the fear of getting hit knowing that despite my low level of skills even experienced fighters struggle to do too much damage, I know I can keep fighting even with a broken nose although my nose is now pretty fucked looking.

Post: #21

With any of these three you should be able to dominate untrained opponents pretty handily. I have taken Krav Maga and I do really enjoy it. One of the assumptions that BJJ makes is that the guy you are fighting does not have a knife or a couple of buddies that will start kicking you. You might takedown your opponent in a bar or the street and get him in your guard but then he pulls out a knife and stabs you or his buddies pummel you for several sides. This is why in krav you rarely go to the ground and it focuses more on the stand up aspect of things. Krav incorporates muay thai kicks and punches as well so you will be pretty well versed in that side of things. I would go to the various places in your area and take the free intro classes that they offer as well as inquire into the pedigree of the various instructors. A little bit goes a long way, one of the most important things to train is to remove your fear of getting hit and attacking someone else. Krav includes lots of aggression building drills that will probably carry over into being more of a badass in general.

Post: #22

(12-18-2012 05:36 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  When you learn krav maga, how exactly do you learn all these deadly strikes? Presumably you don't actually spar eye gouges and testicle stomps (or whatever) so how do you know how to do it properly when the time comes?

If I go to a kickboxing class and spar, I am going to punch people in the face and get punched in the face. In a defence situation, I'll know how to punch or kick someone and at what level of force to do so. How would I learn that with krav maga?

And if you practice krav maga by doing 'demo' sparring where you pretend - how is that any different from learning to box by watching videos on youtube?

(Don't mean to step on any toes. Am genuinely ignorant and would like to learn these things.)

EDIT: This is double-so for stuff like 'fighting in a stairwell, disarming gunmen and kinfe-wielders' mentioned above. Presumably you're fighting with rubber knives and on cushioned stairwells or whatever. Or am I wrong?

There is a Krav helmet with a faceshield that is more protective than headgear, but yes, you can’t really practice all the moves full speed when you spar- most people like their eyes and trachea intact. I think the idea is that you train your muscle memory to do the moves over and over again, and then in a real fight it will just come out naturally. Anyone here who has fought MT knows that in a lot of cases you just go on autopilot with the combo’s you’ve practiced repetitively. For example, I’ve sparred MT for years, but during clinch, it has never occurred to me to headbut someone given the rules in place. Once you condition your mind/body to make that headbut a natural extension of your fighting style, you are increasing your chances for a positive outcome.

There were no padded stairwells, you trained hard and if you got injured or bruised up, so be it. We did use rubber knives. Krav also educates to real life situations. Once per week we trained in jeans and dress shoes. I can’t tell you how different it feels to train in going out clothes vs. MMA or MT shorts. Also, they taught us to quickly take glances behind us while we were engaged in fighting. According to their statistics, during a street fight many people accidently step off a curb or trip on an empty bottle, etc. and fall. The philosophy is to replicate real life as much as possible. Having said this, you have to find a Krav gym that has real practitioners. The instructors in OC are all taught under the head guy and grew up learning Karate in the comforts of America. The guys I trained with were all ex soldiers who grew up in Israel worrying daily about some sort of attack. They ended up teaching the FBI, NYPD, and some Navy Seals during my time there.

Everyone wants to believe that what they train is the best, but the fact is you have to acknowledge there’s a difference between a sport and real life practical situations. And taking the practical pieces of a few different disciplines makes sense to me. I prefer training MT, but I’m very glad that I did Krav for 2 years. IMO, it only augmented what I knew from MT. So, if I were you, I’d train MT for a few years and then fine tune with Krav. Any good Krav school should have a legit BJJ guy there and you can pick up the basics of the ground as well.

Good luck.

Post: #23

(12-18-2012 02:42 PM)cellblock4 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:36 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  When you learn krav maga, how exactly do you learn all these deadly strikes? Presumably you don't actually spar eye gouges and testicle stomps (or whatever) so how do you know how to do it properly when the time comes?

If I go to a kickboxing class and spar, I am going to punch people in the face and get punched in the face. In a defence situation, I'll know how to punch or kick someone and at what level of force to do so. How would I learn that with krav maga?

And if you practice krav maga by doing 'demo' sparring where you pretend - how is that any different from learning to box by watching videos on youtube?

(Don't mean to step on any toes. Am genuinely ignorant and would like to learn these things.)

EDIT: This is double-so for stuff like 'fighting in a stairwell, disarming gunmen and kinfe-wielders' mentioned above. Presumably you're fighting with rubber knives and on cushioned stairwells or whatever. Or am I wrong?

There is a Krav helmet with a faceshield that is more protective than headgear, but yes, you can’t really practice all the moves full speed when you spar- most people like their eyes and trachea intact. I think the idea is that you train your muscle memory to do the moves over and over again, and then in a real fight it will just come out naturally. Anyone here who has fought MT knows that in a lot of cases you just go on autopilot with the combo’s you’ve practiced repetitively. For example, I’ve sparred MT for years, but during clinch, it has never occurred to me to headbut someone given the rules in place. Once you condition your mind/body to make that headbut a natural extension of your fighting style, you are increasing your chances for a positive outcome.

There were no padded stairwells, you trained hard and if you got injured or bruised up, so be it. We did use rubber knives. Krav also educates to real life situations. Once per week we trained in jeans and dress shoes. I can’t tell you how different it feels to train in going out clothes vs. MMA or MT shorts. Also, they taught us to quickly take glances behind us while we were engaged in fighting. According to their statistics, during a street fight many people accidently step off a curb or trip on an empty bottle, etc. and fall. The philosophy is to replicate real life as much as possible. Having said this, you have to find a Krav gym that has real practitioners. The instructors in OC are all taught under the head guy and grew up learning Karate in the comforts of America. The guys I trained with were all ex soldiers who grew up in Israel worrying daily about some sort of attack. They ended up teaching the FBI, NYPD, and some Navy Seals during my time there.

Everyone wants to believe that what they train is the best, but the fact is you have to acknowledge there’s a difference between a sport and real life practical situations. And taking the practical pieces of a few different disciplines makes sense to me. I prefer training MT, but I’m very glad that I did Krav for 2 years. IMO, it only augmented what I knew from MT. So, if I were you, I’d train MT for a few years and then fine tune with Krav. Any good Krav school should have a legit BJJ guy there and you can pick up the basics of the ground as well.

Good luck.

Post: #24

(12-18-2012 12:09 PM)dog24 Wrote:  Ive done bjj and muay thai, muay thai alone is enough to send an untrained men to the hospital, plus is a lot faster to get at a decent level. I would say that in 4 or 5 months you should be good to go for self defense purposes in a street fight, but in bjj it takes at least a year and a half.
We used to spar against MT guys before i started MT and it was really hard to take them down cause we weren't used to being hit, sure once you get them down the fight is over. But in the standup youre pretty much useless, once you start getting hit you have no guard, you turn your back, your only option is going for the legs it sucks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ0HCXRgU5g

I would suggest learn standup first then ground game, and like cellblock4 said you have to train 3-4 times a week and be consistent.
I wont talk about krav maga cause ive never done it.

i noticed that the MT fighter was able to win by applying the "plum" to the BJJ fighter's head several times.
i heard somewhere that the "plum" strike to the sternum was the most effective in all martial arts due to the fact that the heart gets tossed around in the ribcage and "skips a beat" so-to-speak, causing the recipient to get momentarily stunned.
any thoughts?

Post: #25

Whatever happened to JJJ, Japanese Jiu Jitsu? When I was younger I found a school that taught that and loved it. This was back when the only options were Karate, Tae Kwondo and Judo. We got good ol Japanese self discipline and respect beaten into us with the throws and holds of BJJ plus weapon fighting, strikes and horrible stuff like eyes, throat and groin strikes or just where to bite down if you found yourself in a certain lock. I techniques were effective when I got to use them but the discipline was probably the most effective part for molding my character and confidence. Do places teach that anymore?