Post: #1

I signed up for a gym right next to my house yesterday and I need a little help coming up with a workout routine. I am a complete beginner, having had no experience working out. From what I've read on the board, the two best programs are Starting Strength and Convict Conditioning. I own both books and was wondering if anyone with more experience could help me combine the two programs or if that is even a good idea.

Here is the routine I was advised to follow for Starting Strength:

Workout A
• 3x5 Squat
• 3x5 Bench Press
• 1x5 Deadlifts
• **2x8 Dips (if you cant do these or no assist machine then do Decline Dumbbell Bench Press with your hands Facing each other)

Workout B
• 3x5 Squat
• 3x5 Standing military press
• 3x5 Bent Rows (or power cleans)
• **2x8 Chin-ups (recommended mainly if doing the cleans)

Week 1:
• Monday - Workout A
• Wednesday -Workout B
• Friday - Workout A

Week 2:
• Monday - Workout B
• Wednesday - Workout A
• Friday - Workout B

And then alternate between A & B adding more weight each week until you plateau, then to add reps.

And these are the exercises for Convict Conditioning; I'll be starting on Step 1 of the exercises:
1. Push Ups
2. Pull Ups
3. Bridges
4. Squats
5. Knee Tucks
6. Headstands/Handstand

Any advice on an appropriate combination of the two is sincerely appreciated.

Thanks so much!

Post: #2

No experience working out, at all?

I would just do Starting Strength for about three to four months until your gains stall, then switch to CC for a long term workout. You will make faster gains on SS.

If you really want to, add the leg raises, chinups (already included in SS, so no problem), and handstands to the end of your SS workouts.

One goal at a time, man.

Post: #3

I'm a fan of Starting Strength, but if I were you I would start with Tom Mutaffis's 3-day split. I'll paste is below but you can also see the bodybuilding.com thread where he answers questions about the workout almost every day. There is a 4-day split and other variations (focus on chest, etc) of the workout. All in all, a great workout for someone getting into the gym for the first time. And Tom will customize the workout for you if you have any special needs/interests. Just drop him a note and ask.

If nothing else, remember that technique is far more important than lifting heavy weight at this stage. Learn how to lift. Respect the weight. Oh, and go read Iron and Soul by Henry Rollins for a little inspiration.
http://rosstraining.com/blog/2009/12/04/...y-rollins/

=========================
Tom Mutaffis 3-day split:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...781&page=1

I have seen a number of posts lately regarding 3-day training splits and wanted to share a program that I put together which has worked well for me.

Monday: Pulling (Back/Biceps/Deadlift)
- Deadlifts (3 sets)
- Chins (3 sets)
- One-Arm Dumbbell Rows (2 sets)
- Close Grip Pulldowns (2 sets)
- Barbell Curls (2 sets)
- Hammer Curls (1 set)

Wednesday: Pushing (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps)
- Flat Dumbbell Bench Press (3 Sets)
- Incline Barbell Bench Press (2 sets)
- Dips (2 sets)
- Seated Dumbbell Military Press (3 sets)
- Overhead Dumbbell Extension (2 sets)
- Side Laterals (2 sets)
- Pushdowns (2 sets)
- Cable Crossover / Pec Deck (1 set)

Friday: Lower Body (Legs)
- Squats (4 sets)
- Strait Leg Deadlifts (2 sets)
- Walking Lunges (2 sets)
- Leg Curl / Feet High Leg Press Superset (2 sets)
- Calf Raises (3 sets)

For initial compound movement in each workout I generally work in the 3-5 rep range. For the next compound movement I typically go with 5-8 reps, and then I finish the rest of the workout (accessory/isolation movements) in the 8-12 rep range.

On some of the smaller muscle groups (deltoids, biceps, triceps) I will generally perform drop sets.

Post: #4

Monday
Alternate Workout A and Workout B

Tuesday
Convict Conditioning A
Pushup series
Squat series
Pullups

Wednesday
Same as Monday

Thursday
Convict Conditioning
Handstand work
bridging series
abdominal series

Friday
Same as Monday

If you're getting plenty of sleep, plenty to eat, and you know proper form, you shouldn't have a problem. Feel free to mix and match things to avoid staleness, it's what I've been doing the last couple months.

Basically, use convict conditioning on your "off" days as a form of active recovery. Chaos and Pain suggests that you don't load the spine every day (like 5 days of barbell squats in a row), so convict conditioning provides a pretty good set of exercises to do on your off days.

Don't go too crazy on the reps for convict conditioning. Don't go to failure. I usually do no more than 3-5 reps for as many sets as I feel like on the CC days. Once I get comfortable with a certain exercise (lets say step 5, the pushup) for 5 reps by 3-8 sets, I'll move up to the next level, uneven pushups if I'm not mistaken. If you don't think you can handle what you're doing on your off days, then cut down the volume until you can. The barbell work is where the bulk of your gains will come from.

Lower body work can usually handle more reps, as well as ab work (so bridges, squats, and leg raises). The human body can withstand plenty of punishment, so don't let people talk you into the idea that you're going to die of overtraining. Just don't do thirty pushups at a crack and have it take away from your bench press the following day. Take what Coach Paul Wade says with a grain of salt, no one has any proof that he even exists, there are no pictures of him, and there's literally no one I've found on the dragondoor forum who has gotten "jacked" doing Convict Conditioning. This is my best and only resource for the kind of results you can expect from his program.

http://myconvictconditioning.blogspot.com/

Make sure to start slow, however. You said you hadn't worked out before, so you're going to go through plenty of pain and soreness because of your detrained muscles.

That kind of volume takes some time to get used to. Get someone who knows what they're doing to help you with your form.

I would just start with starting strength, then when you don't get sore the day after your SS workouts, add in convict conditioning on your off days. All you really need is a pullupbar for convict conditioning. I could usually do an average workout in about twenty to thirty minutes for CC. You're going to be sore as hell for at least a week, if not more, once you start Starting Strength.

Seriously, don't bother with the lower level stuff. If you're physically capable enough to do pushups, pullups, leg raises, handstands, bodyweight squats, and full bridges, then by all means, do so. Your body parts aren't going to turn green and fall off if you don't start at step 1, the steps are completely arbitrary and actual convicts don't start with wall pushups.

Also, I wouldn't bother with the ancillary work described in CC2 until you're comfortable enough with bridges to do neck bridges and for whatever reason you feel like adding flags to your workout. Fingertip pushups are generally a good idea, grip hangs are alright if you don't own a Captain of Crush gripper. For the most part, deadlifts are fine enough for gripwork.

I've done Starting Strength for the last couple months and convict conditioning for about a year and have gotten pretty good gains with both of them. You can have a decent physique doing a bodyweight only workout, but if you want to get good at throwing heavy weight around, you can't replace squats and deadlift.

I'm only just approaching intermediate strength levels so take my advice with a grain of salt. Someone's probably going to criticize me for suggesting the volume I just wrote. I've only been doing this for a year now, so I think I'm doing just fine.

Post: #5

are there competent trainers in the gym? do they know which muscle should be tense and will they teach and remind you of the proper form? in the cheap clubs, there is no one to really teach you and check your form/movements. learn the techniques first before you think about your gains, it will be hard to change false movements in the future.

Post: #6

Thanks for all the information guys. It has been really helpful.

I did my first workout this morning at 6:00AM.

I decided to focus on Starting Strength for the first few months until I really feel comfortable with the technique. I'm going to do some of the Convict Conditioning stuff on my off days.

The workout I did this morning was

Bench Press - 3 x 5
Squat - 3 x 5
Deadlift - 1 x 5
Dumbell Bench Press - 2 x 8
and some ab work and like 10 minutes of cardio

I got the rubber legs at work today.

I feel like my technique is off with the squat because as I was coming up I was lurching forward on the ball of my right foot. I almost lost my footing once or twice, so I need to work on that. Also, I feel like I'm bending my back when I do the deadlift, so I think I may have to look at myself in the mirror when doing the lift.

I have the Starting Strength book and video series, I've been watching them but this was my first time ever attempting to actually do the exercises.

Post: #7

(02-01-2013 01:56 PM)Hades Wrote:  I would just do Starting Strength for about three to four months until your gains stall, then switch to CC for a long term workout. You will make faster gains on SS.

Agree 100%. One or the other. You're not going to recover fast enough if you try to do both, unless you just do a few bodyweight finishers on the same days you work those muscles (pushups after benching, pullups after deadlifting). But definitely no heavy squatting one day, then bodyweight squatting on off days, or overhead pressing one day and handstanding on off days. You'll get nowhere.

Weightlifting will bulk you up faster. Convict Conditioning will do so slower, but it does a better job in strengthening your ligaments and soft tissue, the kind of weaknesses that might cause an injury with heavy barbell training.

Post: #8

If you're lurching forward on your squat, maybe you have improper shoes. Try to get some deadlifting slippers or really flat soled shoes, tennis shoes suck for squatting imo.

Practice a lot your first couple weeks with light squats after you're done with your workout to get your form down.

Also, get at least 8 hours of sleep and eat plenty of food. The soreness went away for me after a week or two, but it may take you longer.

Post: #9

Just got Convict Conditioning but have not read it yet.

Looking forward to trying it out. Have been going to the gym 5 or 6 times a week for 3 months now but not seeing the weight loss or strength gain that I want.

Have changed my diet and dropped all forms of sugar, bread and grains and have been eating super healthy so lets see how it goes from here.

Post: #10

I started doing started strength but started to look like a fridge...I wanted cuts and mass not to look like a blob of muscle the best routine is one you put together after good research

Started to do isolations 60% and comjpounds 40% I dont do back squats but front squats for quads , leg curls and good mornings for hamstring development.

I dont have a set work out routine either because when its structured it gets boring.

Yesterday was my back/shoulder day so...

Heavy pull ups
shoulder press
BTN shoulder press
bent over rows

Because those were what I felt like doing....

While another day might look like

Deadlifts
kroc rows
raises for each deltand traps


I just do what I fee like doing on that particular day ( I know which excercise is working which muscle) although I have the basic structure laid down.

Post: #11

(02-05-2013 11:29 AM)Farmageddon Wrote:  I feel like my technique is off with the squat because as I was coming up I was lurching forward on the ball of my right foot. I almost lost my footing once or twice, so I need to work on that. Also, I feel like I'm bending my back when I do the deadlift

I swear i see these at the gym everyday, your problem is that your glutes and hamstrings are too stiff and weak.
You probably have trouble hitting dept and a buttwink too.
You should do these stretches everyday, i do them at least twice.




Weightlifting shoes will help with form, but as a newbie it probably wont be a good investment yet.

Post: #12

Farmageddon, I've struggled with similar squat form issues as well. You've got to push your knees outwards, HARD.