Post: #1

I've seen a number of senior members advising a noob that he needs to desensitize himself to rejection. Of course, I see the logic behind that because rejection is sometimes painful and can be demotivating.

However, is it not true that anything that gives us pleasure can also give us pain (by withdrawing or denying the pleasure)? How is it possible to desensitize oneself to pain without also becoming desensitized to pleasure?

If a woman's harsh rejection truly means nothing to you, then why should her rapt approval mean anything? If neither means anything, then maybe you've lost something of your humanity?

(And if you put rejection all on the other person, as in "Never take it personally - it's just HER problem", then how can you accept the credit for success when she opens up to your advances?)

I think it's more humane to yourself to accept that rejection will happen and sometimes it will hurt, but you know you will bounce back because you're a great guy and no stranger is in any position to judge you because they don't know you.

Desensitization, taken to an extreme, borders on sociopathic - you win battles against people who neither know nor care about you, but you lose the war for living a rich, hearty life.

Post: #2

I usually use rejection as a motivator. Once I get that first rejection, I approach like crazy until I get what I want and this happens in all aspects of my life. Whenever someone tells me I can't do something or I get rejected for a job, etc.

The other day I watched again a video of Mystery talking about the Mystery Method, and he said that he will feel nervous every time before an approach, because he knows he will approach a hot girl as soon as she enters the room -This saying that even the most experienced players still get nervous-. You just accept this paralysing reflex and move forward.

I just think being desensitized is just lowering the importance of a feeling that might be harmful in approach. Not blocking it away permanently.

Part of the process is that as soon as you start getting success you will get more used to it and tend to the -I don't give a fuck- state of mind that will eventually get you better results in life / game / etc.

I don't think you loose something of your humanity, on the contrary, you get should get the impulse to try new things, learn and get the experience, enriching your life because you are pushing yourself through uncomfortable situations.

Of course whenever you start getting more success you get used to it. I remember I was always happy to be able to approach a girl, now I do it more naturally and I can move to other stages of game, try new things.

Same with work, I used to get pretty excited every time I got a new client or project, but now, I just take it as it is, the high is more intense but shorter, but then again, I just know that I'm doing well and it is a feeling that adds up to my whole experience as a person, and not just on a particular moment, or situation.

Post: #3

Find a balance. Being rejected can still be disappointing but you will be able to deal with it much better than the average dude who will pine for an unattainable girl for months instead of just finding another one.

Post: #4

Quote:However, is it not true that anything that gives us pleasure can also give us pain (by withdrawing or denying the pleasure)? [quote]How is it possible to desensitize oneself to pain without also becoming desensitized to pleasure?

I don't believe it is. But would you rather walk a giant amongst toys or live your life afraid of their shadows?

Quote:If a woman's harsh rejection truly means nothing to you, then why should her rapt approval mean anything?

It shouldn't. Your state of mind should not be dependent on a woman's.

Quote:If neither means anything, then maybe you've lost something of your humanity?

I don't understand what that means, and I'm pretty sure nobody really does either.

Quote:how can you accept the credit for success when she opens up to your advances?

As a science, through empirical evidence. Ignoring rejection is explicit denial on your part designed to keep you in the game.

Quote:I think it's more humane to yourself to accept that rejection will happen and sometimes it will hurt, but you know you will bounce back because you're a great guy and no stranger is in any position to judge you because they don't know you.

I think that's fair. However that mentality might keep you from approaching. Best not to dwell on it. You're approaching to get laid, not because you think it's a great way to understand humanity.

Quote:Desensitization, taken to an extreme, borders on sociopathic - you win battles against people who neither know nor care about you, but you lose the war for living a rich, hearty life.

Maybe. Or maybe not. Time will tell.

Post: #5

(02-12-2013 09:22 AM)storm Wrote:  

Quote:If neither means anything, then maybe you've lost something of your humanity?

I don't understand what that means, and I'm pretty sure nobody really does either.

I mean if you are totally outcome independent at all times with women, so you feel exactly the same whether you succeed or not in seducing a woman, then where's the pleasure in it? We are social beings, built to interact and react. If you excise the possibility of being affected by someone else, that makes you less than fully human, in my opinion. And if you truly don't care at all either way, then why would you be here (presumably) seeking to enhance your skills? You and everyone here must care to some extent, however small.

Post: #6

There's such a thing as getting too amped up when something 'good' happens too. Roosh actually posted about this recently. Quality of life is a sum total of many experiences over a lifetime. It's also practically impossible to predict how any individual event is going to change your quality of life in the moment. It might take years before you can look back and say whether or not it was a good or bad thing that a girl flaked on you, or got together with you.

For instance, I dated the hotest girl in my social circle right out of college. I was ecstatic when we first banged. She turned out to be a total bitch and ran off with my best friend. Probably would have been better for me if she'd turned me down and I'd asked out another hot, but not quite as hot, girl who'd have treated me better. Maybe. Maybe not. The point is I'll never know.

Don't get rocked by individual events. Instead look at your whole life and decide if you're happy with it or not. If you are, then feel joy, if you're not than figure out what you have to do to change it.

Post: #7

(02-12-2013 09:39 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:  

(02-12-2013 09:22 AM)storm Wrote:  

Quote:If neither means anything, then maybe you've lost something of your humanity?

I don't understand what that means, and I'm pretty sure nobody really does either.

I mean if you are totally outcome independent at all times with women, so you feel exactly the same whether you succeed or not in seducing a woman, then where's the pleasure in it? We are social beings, built to interact and react. If you excise the possibility of being affected by someone else, that makes you less than fully human, in my opinion. And if you truly don't care at all either way, then why would you be here (presumably) seeking to enhance your skills? You and everyone here must care to some extent, however small.

Are you more human than, say, your mother? Or your last bang?

If I gave you two strangers and asked you to tell me which of them was more human or had more of their humanity, could you give me an answer? Would people generally agree?

If you'd look for things like emotional response, lack of sociopathy, why not talk about those instead of this concept of humanity veiled in a history of poetry and mystique, full of emotional appeals?

Let's even assume we can nail down a definition of humanity, one that people generally agree with. What good is it for you to have a high humanity? Does it make you more charismatic? Why not just talk about charisma?

How important in your life is humanity really? When's the last time you made a real decision because of how it would affect how human you are?

I think all this talk of humanity... it is just something your mind made up because, subconsciously, you are trying to rationalize not changing. I don't mean to upset your sensibilities, but it is a textbook example. At least consider this idea.

Post: #8

I still feel rejection, but don't give a fuck. It feels no different coming from a girl or prospective job. Understand why it happened, calibrate, and push forward.

Post: #9

(02-12-2013 11:11 AM)storm Wrote:  Are you more human than, say, your mother? Or your last bang?

If I gave you two strangers and asked you to tell me which of them was more human or had more of their humanity, could you give me an answer? Would people generally agree?

If you'd look for things like emotional response, lack of sociopathy, why not talk about those instead of this concept of humanity veiled in a history of poetry and mystique, full of emotional appeals?

Let's even assume we can nail down a definition of humanity, one that people generally agree with. What good is it for you to have a high humanity? Does it make you more charismatic? Why not just talk about charisma?

Good post. You're right, humanity is a woolly and imprecise term. So, let's say I think it's undesirable to become sociopathic through excessive desensitization.

Quote:How important in your life is humanity really? When's the last time you made a real decision because of how it would affect how human you are?

Reading 'humanity' as non-sociopathy, very important. I'm always considering how my actions affect others. If that's a weakness, I'm glad to have it. It doesn't make me responsible for their feelings, and doesn't mean that I always have to concede to others or put their wants ahead of mine. How much of a bastard do I want to be to get what I want? Or can this situation be transformed into win-win? To me, those are questions worth asking.

Quote:I think all this talk of humanity... it is just something your mind made up because, subconsciously, you are trying to rationalize not changing. I don't mean to upset your sensibilities, but it is a textbook example. At least consider this idea.

I don't have great resistance to change; I have changed my career, my political views, my day-to-day habits, and the way I look at the world, many times over my life. I've tried being colder and more detached, but being a near-sociopath doesn't work for me. Have you heard of Advaita? I've been some way down that road and seen others go further with it. The results were not acceptable to me.

I'd rather suffer the temporary pain of rejection than turn off my ability to appreciate and enjoy loving acceptance when it comes my way. Feelings won't kill me.

Post: #10

Back to your question.

Ultimately, the hope is that while desensitization means you enjoy things less than you otherwise might you will have more joy because it allows you to triumph in the face of greater adversity - more often and with greater results.

To say nothing of the benefits of being a hard ass motherfucker.

Post: #11

It comes down to not giving a fuck. Set your baseline appropriately. Rejection from a girl is nothing. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Quote: When things in your life seem almost too much to handle, when 24 hours in a day are not enough, remember the mayonnaise jar and the 2 Beers.


A professor stood before his philosophy class and had some items in front of him. When the class began, he wordlessly picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with golf balls. He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed that it was.


The professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles rolled into the open areas between the golf balls. He then asked the students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was.

The professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else. He asked once more if the jar was full.. The students responded with a unanimous ‘yes.’

The professor then produced two Beers from under the table and poured the entire contents into the jar effectively filling the empty space between the sand.The students laughed..

‘Now,’ said the professor as the laughter subsided, ‘I want you to recognize that this jar represents your life. The golf balls are the important things—-your family, your children, your health, your friends and your favorite passions—-and if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full. The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house and your car.. The sand is everything else—-the small stuff.

‘If you put the sand into the jar first,’ he continued, ‘there is no room for the pebbles or the golf balls. The same goes for life.

If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff you will never have room for the things that are important to you.

Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness.

Spend time with your children. Spend time with your parents. Visit with grandparents. Take your spouse out to dinner. Play another 18. There will always be time to clean the house and mow the lawn.

Take care of the golf balls first—-the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand.

One of the students raised her hand and inquired what the Beer represented. The professor smiled and said, ‘I’m glad you asked.’ The Beer just shows you that no matter how full your life may seem, there’s always room for a couple of Beers with a friend.

Post: #12

OP, you are conceptualizing the issue in too much of a black/white manner- that a man has to be either overly sensitive or have no feelings at all regarding girls.

The correct method is simply to make yourself less sensitive to anxiety and rejection because being overly sensitive will lead to a failure to act, improper responses. and emotional turmoil. In a previous life, if a girl rejected me, it would not only ruin my day, it would ruin my week and maybe my month. I rarely approached girls because the pain of rejection was too unpleasant.

Now, through improving my Inner Game and lots of practice of approaching and dating, my emotional state no longer cockblocks me. I'm not a robot- if I get blown out on an approach or a girl flakes or won't give me a second date, it bothers me for maybe five minutes, then I'm ready to move on. And the sting is a lot less, more like a gnat bite, a minor annoyance, not a threat to my self esteem. I can think of two instances in the last few months when I had an unsuccessful date with a girl and immediately went to a bar, picked up and girl, and banged her that night.

Another solution to managing your emotions is dealing with what the Buddhists call "attachment." The ordinary person feels that they ARE their emotions, become fully invested in them, and allow their emotions to control them. But you aren't your emotions-emotions are transitory states and you have the power to either identify with them or to regard them as just a passing creation of your mind. The next time you're feeling nervous before an approach or a little upset after a rejection, remember that these feelings are your mind reacting to a certain stimulus and just let it pass without clinging to it.

Post: #13

Rephrasing it helps. Instead of rejection being a negative state and success a positive state, assume that rejection is normal and do not take it personally. Your new "zero" is now being rejected instead of not approaching at all out of fear. If the rejection does not occur you are in positive territory, otherwise at a neutral baseline of zero.

Post: #14

To me it's as simple as the understanding that some girls will like me and some won't. And percentages of interested/disinterested ones depend on different circumstances. So basically I'm just ready and kind of like "yup! here it is haha.."

Post: #15

Interesting question..

Does not caring about rejection mean that I can't enjoy positive responses from women???

Does "de-sensitizing" myself to girls who don't like me, mean that I can't enjoy girls who do like me???

Absolutely not! Ignoring negative emotions does not mean that we can't enjoy positive emotions! I don't care about a girl rejecting me but it still feels great when a cute girl accepts me.

I simply "re-frame" the negative experiences into learning experiences.

If live gives you lemons. make lemonade!

Some girls like me, some girls don't. It's not worth getting all emotionally invested into each one.

Desensitize yourself to pain but still allow yourself to enjoy pleasure. It's not that hard!

Post: #16

Ive found that a lot of rejections are so subtle that you dont even really have a chance to feel that bad about them. Most classy girls are not going to outright humiliate you or embarrass you for the sake of. However, Im a passionate and somewhat sensitive person by nature and I can remember some of the more harsh rejections through the years and some of them still make me feel kind of down if I dwell on them. But at the same time, I can remember some of the most uplifting compliments coming from girls that have stayed with me for life. Ive had a girl tell another that I was trying to pull that "...he's beautiful". Hearing that made my day and has always stuck with me. Ive had a girl that was trying to be my lady and actually get pregnant by me tell me "....I mean, your perfect". Ive asked a girl what it was about me that made her attracted to me and she complimented me from head to toe in such a thorough way that I was almost floored. Ive gone to parties and could just feel all eyes on me. Moments like that have always stuck with me. Ive had girls give me indirect compliments by saying stuff like "I cant believe you dont have a Valentines...you have the swag of someone that would probably have a lot." or "you know what, you seem like the type thats only into video girls and shit". Ive remembered stuff like that to remind myself that I am attractive and to help cope with rejections when they do happen.

Every woman in life is not going to be attracted to you. Its just a fact. Finding out explicitly that one particular girl is not attracted to you is just finding out the truth. Whether or not you ever approached her to find out that harsh reality is not going to change the fact that your not her cup of tea. You were just man enough to find out the truth and it didnt kill you.

Post: #17

(02-12-2013 08:55 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:  However, is it not true that anything that gives us pleasure can also give us pain (by withdrawing or denying the pleasure)?

Nope, not true. Not true at all.
Moreover your entire premise is too granular.

WIA

Post: #18

(02-12-2013 08:55 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:  I've seen a number of senior members advising a noob that he needs to desensitize himself to rejection. Of course, I see the logic behind that because rejection is sometimes painful and can be demotivating.

However, is it not true that anything that gives us pleasure can also give us pain (by withdrawing or denying the pleasure)? How is it possible to desensitize oneself to pain without also becoming desensitized to pleasure?

If a woman's harsh rejection truly means nothing to you, then why should her rapt approval mean anything? If neither means anything, then maybe you've lost something of your humanity?

(And if you put rejection all on the other person, as in "Never take it personally - it's just HER problem", then how can you accept the credit for success when she opens up to your advances?)

I think it's more humane to yourself to accept that rejection will happen and sometimes it will hurt, but you know you will bounce back because you're a great guy and no stranger is in any position to judge you because they don't know you.

Desensitization, taken to an extreme, borders on sociopathic - you win battles against people who neither know nor care about you, but you lose the war for living a rich, hearty life.

Desensitization is a natural product of giving women a realistic (low) valuation. And it is the recipe for a much richer life than someone who puts pussy on a pedestal.

Post: #19

@ Lemmo - So you give all women a low valuation. If she's negative towards you, you've lost next to nothing. If she's positive towards you, you've gained next to nothing. Or does her 'yes' magically raise her value? So her value is dependent on how she evaluates you? I feel there's some kind of trap there, but I can't quite locate it.

(I know putting pussy on a pedestal is a grave error.)

Post: #20

Assume low value in general, looking for "nuggets of exceptional quality". If she rejects, say "why did I expect any different". If she does not reject consider her one of the few valuable girls left.

Post: #21

(02-13-2013 06:59 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:  @ Lemmo - So you give all women a low valuation. If she's negative towards you, you've lost next to nothing. If she's positive towards you, you've gained next to nothing. Or does her 'yes' magically raise her value? So her value is dependent on how she evaluates you? I feel there's some kind of trap there, but I can't quite locate it.

(I know putting pussy on a pedestal is a grave error.)

No, a "yes" won't magically raise her value. She is a big dumb animal regardless. A "yes" only increases her value to the extent it makes our interactions more pleasant. For example, I value a smart, pleasant dog more than one those small, loud obnoxious breeds. But ultimately a dog is a dog. I don't rearrange my life for it and I move on once I cease to be amused by it.

Post: #22

(02-12-2013 08:55 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:  I've seen a number of senior members advising a noob that he needs to desensitize himself to rejection. Of course, I see the logic behind that because rejection is sometimes painful and can be demotivating.

However, is it not true that anything that gives us pleasure can also give us pain (by withdrawing or denying the pleasure)? How is it possible to desensitize oneself to pain without also becoming desensitized to pleasure?

If a woman's harsh rejection truly means nothing to you, then why should her rapt approval mean anything? If neither means anything, then maybe you've lost something of your humanity?

(And if you put rejection all on the other person, as in "Never take it personally - it's just HER problem", then how can you accept the credit for success when she opens up to your advances?)

I think it's more humane to yourself to accept that rejection will happen and sometimes it will hurt, but you know you will bounce back because you're a great guy and no stranger is in any position to judge you because they don't know you.

Desensitization, taken to an extreme, borders on sociopathic - you win battles against people who neither know nor care about you, but you lose the war for living a rich, hearty life.

I've spent plenty of time debating and trying to sort this out with myself.
It can take time to develop, but learning more about why they are rejecting you (this goes for both men and women) can allow you to see it as not being about you. I have also thought a lot about why I rejected women. I have rudely blown off many women who approached me due to my own shyness that has greatly decreased. But I still do catch myself doing it at times. It helped to realize that they also might be doing the same. I think the rudeness was my way of not looking shy.

Post: #23

Depends on what you're looking for. Most of us want something to stick our dick in.