Post: #1

t's supported by 42 studies on 22,000 people and it's the easiest, most practical persuasion technique available.
I'll admit it. A few of the techniques for persuasion I've covered here on PsyBlog have been a little outlandish and impractical.

Things like swearing, talking in the right ear and pouring coffee down someone's throat. The studies are interesting and fun but not widely useful.

The question is: which persuasion technique, based on psychological research, is most practical, can easily be used by anyone in almost any circumstances and has been consistently shown to work?

The answer is: the 'But You Are Free' technique. This simple approach is all about reaffirming people's freedom to choose. When you ask someone to do something, you add on the sentiment that they are free to choose.

By reaffirming their freedom you are indirectly saying to them: I am not threatening your right to say no. You have a free choice.

A recent review of the 42 psychology studies carried out on this technique has shown that it is surprisingly effective given how simple it is (Carpenter, 2013). All in all, over 22,000 people have been tested by researchers. Across all the studies it was found to double the chances that someone would say 'yes' to the request.

People have been shown to donate more to good causes, agree more readily to a survey and give more to someone asking for a bus fare home.

The exact words used are not especially important. The studies have shown that using the phrase "But obviously do not feel obliged," worked just as well as "but you are free".

What is important is that the request is made face-to-face: the power of the technique drops off otherwise. Even over email, though, it does still have an effect, although it is somewhat reduced.

The BYAF technique is so simple and amenable that it can easily be used in conjunction with other approaches.

It also underlines the fact that people hate to be hemmed in or have their choices reduced. We seem to react against this attempt to limit us by becoming more closed-minded.

The BYAF technique, as with any good method of persuasion, is about helping other people come to the decision you want through their own free will. If they have other options, like simply walking away, and start to feel corralled, then you can wave them goodbye.

On the other hand, respecting people's autonomy has the happy side-effect of making them more open to persuasion. You can look good and be more likely to get what you want. Nice.

http://www.spring.org.uk/2013/02/the-one...d-know.php

Post: #2

This reminds me of one my favorite LMR destroying lines:

"We don't have to have sex."

Post: #3

Another:

"We don't have to do anything you don't want to."

Post: #4

"Just the tip.....just to see how it feels"

Post: #5

Damn, I've used this in past relationships without thinking about it in these terms. This is pretty awesome and it explains a lot.

I've told several ex-girlfriends, and the current one, "You're free to leave any time. I'm not going to be the one keeping you in this."

They always stay, or try to anyway.

Contrary-wise, I guess the best way to lose a girl would be the reverse statement, "You aren't going anywhere. You can't leave me."

Post: #6

It also works as a boyfriend/beta/cockblock destroyer:

"Does he decide what you do?"
"Does he choose your breakfast for you?"
"Doesn't she let you do anything on your own?"
"Wait. So, you can't talk to anyone or meet anyone without their permission?"

Post: #7

Of course, no one liked being pressured into situations, especially women.

This also known as Hobson's choice I believe, where you operated based on the mentality "take it or leave it" and the outcome of the customer does not affect you if they choose not to partake.

This entire thing only works if you are truely outcome independent in my opinion. If you are on the hunt that night and are displaying a heavy NEED to take a girl home, whether or not you say "it's your choice babe" isn't going to make a difference. It needs to be accompanied with a genuine carefree attitude of the outcome, some of which I think can be developed internally and the other half of which will come through experience as you have more and more options and interactions.

Post: #8

Hobson's choice was a good book, we read it in school.

I'm reading the Thank You For Arguing book at the moment, and it has this in there.

Post: #9

I use "What ever you want to do is fine".....

Post: #10

I studied directing for film and theater, and one of things that you have to do is use the language of permission. It frames the interaction in a way that your are the dominant one, but they have the choice. They have the choice because you allow them to have it.

This is the great trick of game. It's framing.

Post: #11

I can see how this technique has great use in destroying LMR (as Samseau pointed out), as a variation on/of Agree and Amplify, but in the general pickup process it feels a bit needy to me. To be able to give the BYAF statement you have to request something of them first. As we all know attraction and other elements of Game cannot be negotiated. You just assume the sale and be outcome independent. So why would there be a need for a negotiating line?

"Want to come home with me? But of course you're free to decide for yourself."
"Want to kiss me? But of course you're free to decide for yourself."

We all know women can't decide for shit. That's why they need men to lead them.

Post: #12

(03-12-2013 12:29 PM)Grayham Wrote:  I can see how this technique has great use in destroying LMR (as Samseau pointed out), as a variation on/of Agree and Amplify, but in the general pickup process it feels a bit needy to me. To be able to give the BYAF statement you have to request something of them first. As we all know attraction and other elements of Game cannot be negotiated. You just assume the sale and be outcome independent. So why would there be a need for a negotiating line?

"Want to come home with me? But of course you're free to decide for yourself."
"Want to kiss me? But of course you're free to decide for yourself."

We all know women can't decide for shit. That's why they need men to lead them.

I see this technique being used more as a means of overcoming objections and not part of the initial request. For example

Me: "Let's go in to the other room where we'll be more comfortable"
Her: "I don't know, we're not having sex tonight..."
Me: "Ok. You're free to do whatever you want."

Post: #13

(03-12-2013 12:36 PM)RCron Wrote:  I see this technique being used more as a means of overcoming objections and not part of the initial request. For example

Me: "Let's go in to the other room where we'll be more comfortable"
Her: "I don't know, we're not having sex tonight..."
Me: "Ok. You're free to do whatever you want."

Ye, so it's to battle LMR, as I agreed to.
If you get objections earlier in the pickup then you're doing something wrong.

As most tools everything has its time and place, but we already kind of figured this one out. It's always nice to have another screwdriver in the toolbox though.

Now for real life non-game application (as I tend to do with most game stuff) I can see this help me win certain arguements or get people to do what I want.

Post: #14

(03-12-2013 12:36 PM)RCron Wrote:  

(03-12-2013 12:29 PM)Grayham Wrote:  I can see how this technique has great use in destroying LMR (as Samseau pointed out), as a variation on/of Agree and Amplify, but in the general pickup process it feels a bit needy to me. To be able to give the BYAF statement you have to request something of them first. As we all know attraction and other elements of Game cannot be negotiated. You just assume the sale and be outcome independent. So why would there be a need for a negotiating line?

"Want to come home with me? But of course you're free to decide for yourself."
"Want to kiss me? But of course you're free to decide for yourself."

We all know women can't decide for shit. That's why they need men to lead them.

I see this technique being used more as a means of overcoming objections and not part of the initial request. For example

Me: "Let's go in to the other room where we'll be more comfortable"
Her: "I don't know, we're not having sex tonight..."
Me: "Ok. You're free to do whatever you want."

RCon is on the money.

Just use it to overcome objections. However, I use it as a last resort. When you give women the option of leaving, just remember that some will leave. You're basically saying, "Take it or leave it."

For example, here's how I'd handle that conversation.

Samseau: "Let's go in to the other room where we'll be more comfortable"
Her: "I don't know, we're not having sex tonight..."
Samseau: "When did I say we'd have sex?"

At this point, she might feel more comfortable with you and agree to go somewhere else. But if she keeps objecting...

Her: "I know guys like you. You're all the same."
Samseau: "You know guys like me? Well since you're already pre-judging me maybe we should just go our separate ways. No one is forcing you to stay."
(This is calling her out. At this point, she'll qualify and possibly apologize, or get defensive and possibly walk.)

If she qualifies:
Her: "No no, I'm not pre-judging you, it's just that you seem really forward, and I'm not that kind of girl."
Samseau: "Seriously, look where we are. How am I not supposed to show a little forward interest if I want to get to know you?"
Her: (laughs) "Yeah true..."
Samseau: "You're making a big deal out of nothing. Let's get outta here."
(Overcame the initial objection, and then go for the close.)

If she defends:
Her: "I know you can't force me to stay! I'm not that kind of girl and you're an asshole for thinking I'm judging you."
Samseau: "Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?"
Her: "Fuck you!"
(Girl walks)

I wouldn't any "feel free to walk" line unless it was a last resort, because you really never know what kind of response you'll get.

Post: #15

(03-12-2013 12:51 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(03-12-2013 12:36 PM)RCron Wrote:  

(03-12-2013 12:29 PM)Grayham Wrote:  I can see how this technique has great use in destroying LMR (as Samseau pointed out), as a variation on/of Agree and Amplify, but in the general pickup process it feels a bit needy to me. To be able to give the BYAF statement you have to request something of them first. As we all know attraction and other elements of Game cannot be negotiated. You just assume the sale and be outcome independent. So why would there be a need for a negotiating line?

"Want to come home with me? But of course you're free to decide for yourself."
"Want to kiss me? But of course you're free to decide for yourself."

We all know women can't decide for shit. That's why they need men to lead them.

I see this technique being used more as a means of overcoming objections and not part of the initial request. For example

Me: "Let's go in to the other room where we'll be more comfortable"
Her: "I don't know, we're not having sex tonight..."
Me: "Ok. You're free to do whatever you want."

RCon is on the money.

Just use it to overcome objections. However, I use it as a last resort. When you give women the option of leaving, just remember that some will leave. You're basically saying, "Take it or leave it."

For example, here's how I'd handle that conversation.

Samseau: "Let's go in to the other room where we'll be more comfortable"
Her: "I don't know, we're not having sex tonight..."
Samseau: "When did I say we'd have sex?"

At this point, she might feel more comfortable with you and agree to go somewhere else. But if she keeps objecting...

Her: "I know guys like you. You're all the same."
Samseau: "You know guys like me? Well since you're already pre-judging me maybe we should just go our separate ways. No one is forcing you to stay."
(This is calling her out. At this point, she'll qualify and possibly apologize, or get defensive and possibly walk.)

If she qualifies:
Her: "No no, I'm not pre-judging you, it's just that you seem really forward, and I'm not that kind of girl."
Samseau: "Seriously, look where we are. How am I not supposed to show a little forward interest if I want to get to know you?"
Her: (laughs) "Yeah true..."
Samseau: "You're making a big deal out of nothing. Let's get outta here."
(Overcame the initial objection, and then go for the close.)

If she defends:
Her: "I know you can't force me to stay! I'm not that kind of girl and you're an asshole for thinking I'm judging you."
Samseau: "Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?"
Her: "Fuck you!"
(Girl walks)

I wouldn't any "feel free to walk" line unless it was a last resort, because you really never know what kind of response you'll get.

I think the trick to this technique is to say it before any arguing starts. Otherwise, you lose leverage.

Post: #16

If a girl starts arguing with you, 9 times out of 10 you aren't going to bang because she's a cunt. I personally like it when they walk.

Post: #17

great suggestions

Post: #18

(03-11-2013 05:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  This reminds me of one my favorite LMR destroying lines:

"We don't have to have sex."

I've used this before without really understanding why it worked.

Post: #19

(03-11-2013 05:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  This reminds me of one my favorite LMR destroying lines:

"We don't have to have sex."

My favorite:

Her: We're not having sex. (CHALLENGE ACCEPTED)
Me: I didn't expect to. Was I hoping? Yeah, sure. But not expecting. I EXPECT to have a good time, I don't expect anything else. If that's having sex, great. If not, I'm just having a great time hanging out with you.
Her: (muffled, can't really understand because her mouth is on my mouth or dick)