Post: #1

What is the real reason why a girl gets turned off if you seem desperate or needy?

What does it mean to her to be hanging out with a "loser" or "creep"?

Why is it that you might have had great drunken sex with a girl, but if you text her the next day, she will get buyer's remorse?

Why does she want you to treat her as an insignificant part of your life?



I believe the root of all this is fear. Many of you already know that thousands of years ago, a woman depended on either a strong man or the power of a group to stay alive. This is why girls are more turned-on by survival attributes than men are.

While men look mainly for good replication attributes like tits and ass, even the sluttiest skank has the need to feel emotionally connected to a socially powerful man deep within her brain. That ancient part of her is telling her she needs to hang out with a guy that is going to protect her when she is baring and raising a child.

So, if you come off as needy, you will scare her away because she subconsciously feels that it's a reflection of her own value. This is why women of low value still need to be gamed. They need to feel that they have some worth in society. Fear of ostracization drives them above all else. If the needy man thinks he can get her, then she will feel like something wrong with her to be giving off that vibe.

This is why most normal guys can't just go directly up to a girl and tell her "Let's fuck" without the girl freaking out or getting offended. Look at what happens when guys cat-call girls in the street.

I've noticed this when I've sexualized a conversation "too early" (e.g. initiating a push to send a girl a dick pic). It really fucks with them. On the one hand, it's a pretty daring move- on the other hand it brings up the possibility that they might enjoy the cock of a random man, which means that they are a slut.

Unlike the glorification of sluts that we see in modern society, sluts were either kicked out of the group or killed in ancient times. Just look at how groups that essentially live by ancient codes handle their women; the most extreme Muslim societies have very harsh penalties for slutty behavior.

So, if you make it seem like you think she's easy, she will get offended because the underlying implication of you actions scare the shit out of her. I try to keep this at the forefront of my mind when talking to women. I have to make sure that this fear doesn't come to the forefront of their mind.

This means that as men, we need to be driven from a position of strength. We need to ignore approach anxiety. We need to be on the pedestal. We need to be kings, or at the very least not be motivated by fear.

In the Text Tricks thread I started, Sebastian says:

"when a chick says 'new phone, who's this?' do you put your pride down and tell her who you are or just ignore her? I did that couple times and it didn't work. (she deleted my number, why would she come out?) So I think it's better to preserve your ego and ignore her."

Here we have a guy who is worried about preserving his ego. He's thinking defensively, is motivated by fear more than desire, and will get eviscerated in the game.

All the shit tests and hassle we have to put up with when dealing with women is just a manifestation of this ancient fear that they have of being cast out on their own or stoned to death.

I'd be curious to know if any of you have noticed other ways in which fear guides women. Heartiste has many posts on how instilling a sense of dread in a woman is the one of the most powerful tools we have at our disposal.

I also see understand feminism through this paradigm as the outcasts (women who would have been considered witches and sluts in ancient times) coming back to the tribe with a vengeance. They are going to make sure that the powers that attacked them will suffer. It's not just about equality and making sure that society doesn't reject them, feminism is about retribution. I'm pretty sure that most hardcore feminists would actually agree with this (in privacy at least).

Post: #2

Nice breakdown soup.

I don't have much to add except that most women are insecure at some visceral level. That is consistent with your analysis and even though they don't want to live in fear, being defensive is a comfort zone for them. It's what they are used to. Thus, when you hold frame, they are qualifying themselves to you and you have hand. Therefore, I believe the balance is between keeping them on the defensive while not instilling the fear you so accurately identify and describe.

Post: #3

Another solid post, Soup. I don't have much to add at the moment as I've got to hit the road, but I always enjoy reading your thoughts and reflections on the game. You'd be a good ROK contributor.