Post: #1

Here is my three day split. I am 28yo, 6' tall, 169lb, 16% body fat. My goal is to be 10%. I realize that I should focus on calorie deficit and the workout is just for muscle maintenance. Do you have any recommendations about the exercises or their order?

Back Squat: 135x10, 225x5, 225x3
Good Morning: 90x10, 90x10, 90x10
Calves: 50x20, 50x15, 50x10
Upright Row: 95x8, 95x5, 95x4
Abs Top: 15, 10, 5

Incline Bench Press: 115x10, 115x10, 115x10
Pullovers: 55x10, 65x10, 75x5
Dips: 15, 10, 5
Reverse Barbell Curls: 45x10, 45x10, 45x10
Lunges: 80x10, 90x10, 100x10

Deadlift: 225x5, 315x5, 335x1
Seated Rows: 150x5, 180x4, 180x2
Pullups: 10, 7, 4
Seated Front Press: 95x5, 95x5, 95x4
Abs Bottom: 10, 10, 10

Post: #2

What are your maxes? Personally I like to deadlift and squat on the same day. I also like to follow 6 week cycles, gradually increase weights from 70% max holding reps constant for the first 2 weeks, then the 3rd week back off on weight, then weeks 4 and 5 increase the weight and decrease reps, week 6 hit a new personal max. Back off to 70% and start over. I also prefer more warm up sets. I never do more than a 50lb jump from my warm up squat weight to the next set.

Post: #3

My two cents:

A lot of different exercises. Given your height and weight, I'm guessing you're relatively new to weightlifting and would be better served with sticking to a few main lifts ala Starting Strength.

If your numbers are accurate, you'd be the first person I've seen who can deadlift 315 for 5 reps but benches 115 and presses 95.

I would at least nix good mornings, pullovers, and rows. I'd also nix all the "Seated"s and the "top" and "bottom" from abs, and get really good at just one core exercise.

Post: #4

You need to up those poundages!!!

This is what I did this week, my schedule is pretty basic old school bodybuilding:

I am 5'8 160

Monday:
Bench 245x9 265x 4 285x2
2 sets of dips 15 reps each

Tuesday:
19 chinups
10 with a 25 lb plate
10 regular
3 sets of dumbbell rows
3 sets of shrugs

Wends: Rest

Thursday:
3 set heavy cheat curls dumbbells 70's ,80's, 85's
3 sets concentration curls up to 45's on each side with ez curls bar
3 set reverse curls up to 65

Friday:
Shoulder dumbbell 75x8, 85x 3
Upright rows 3 sets up to 85

Sat:
Squats 205, 225
2 set leg extension
3 set calves

This is not including my cardio workouts, I lift a lunch, and run at night after work.

You have a lot of good exercises in there, your mix looks a little odd...

Post: #5

I'd switch the upright row for some super heavy shrugs. Doubles and singles

Maybe some power cleans too

Post: #6

Thanks guys.

The numbers above are from my most recent workout. These are my working sets. I warm up with an empty bar and lighter weights first. I used to do breathing squats (1 set of 20 reps) three times a week and I built it up to 200lb. At this point my form was shit, so I dropped the weight and tried doing ass-to-grass squats, hence the low numbers. Same with bench, I just switched from flat bench to incline bench and I'm building up my weight slowly. Deadlifts are my favorite and I don't change them at all.

Ensam:
My 1 rep maxes for the big three: squat ~ 280, bench ~ 205, deadlift ~ 340. I used to have deadlift and squat on the same day too, but then the rest of the week would be too easy. So I split it into legs, push, and pull. What's a "holding rep"?

Expat:
I've been lifting regularly for about a year now. I try to hit my big three every week. I do all exercises in order, so if I'm going to skip anything it would be the bottom exercises for each day. Normally I do three sets for five exercises or three exercises - five sets each.

I think my squat form suffers because of weak hamstrings and the bar rubs my spine because of weak traps, so I added good mornings and rows to target those muscles. They say pullovers are fantastic for stretching the ribcage, but I'm not feeling it yet. Maybe I'm doing it wrong or with a wrong weight, but it's mostly triceps I feel.

I used to do standing "military" press, but at the bottom position I would inevitably use my legs to help push the weight up. If I'm sitting down, its all upper body. I just made that switch too, so I had to lower the weight. Same with seated rows. I used to do bentover barbell rows on my deadlift days, but with heavy weights I would use my lower back to help with the lift. In a seated position I get a closer grip and more focus on the upper back.

I don't know about abs, I think I put them in there just to keep things even.


Captain:
Yes, my 1 rep max goals are to squat 315, deadlift 365, and bench 225. I don't know if there is a 900lb club, but I would like to be in it Would you recommend doing 3 exercises per day, extra heavy on every set? How would you reorganize my list?

Cancer
I used to do barbell shrugs, but the grip on a straight bar is awkward for me and I get a better feeling doing them with light dumbells. I know power clean as well as clean and jerk are fantastic, but I'm worried I might snap some shit up. There are not many lifting experts in my gym. Also, what are doubles and singles?

Post: #7

did you do the shrugs with straps?

by doubles and singles I mean sets of 2 or 1 reps.

I do shrugs every few weeks and I swear my traps get bigger every time. I work from 400lb (triples) to 500lb (doubles) to just under 600lb (single)

-- these aren't strict shrugs, they're more 'power shrugs' a la chaos and pain.

Post: #8

If your goal is to cut body fat, are you doing cardio? Do some boxing, karate, etc. It is fun, great for tone, coordination, flexibility.

Post: #9

What does your lifting schedule look like exactly? Is this 6 days a week?
Otherwise I would drop some of what looks like a bodybuilding.com routine and simplify everything a little.
All you really need are squats, deadlifts, overhead press, and bench. You can add two or three assistance exercises for good measure (like chinups, kroc rows, and leg raises or ab wheel rollouts).

Post: #10

The general consensus seems to be that I should reduce the number exercises and reps.

Cancer:
No straps, just gloves. I'll try doubles. I bet shrugs is a perfect exercise for something like that.

Lemmo:
Yes, I just want to get lean. I boxed last summer and loved it. I prefer lifting now because I can do it on my own schedule and because the weight room is next door to my office. I did start walking on weekends (6-10 miles). I can't run such distances and even though walking them takes forever, I think it still burns a ton of calories.

Hades:
The three sets of exercises are for Monday-Wednesday-Friday. I used to go five days a week, but I was always sore.

Post: #11

If your looking to get lean I would recommend doing some low intensity cardio in the morning in a fasted state before you eat a couple times a week. What I do is just crank up the incline on the treadmill and walk at about 3.0 for 30 mins and its really helped me break through any plateaus that Ive hit while trying to lose fat. As time goes on too you can work your way up to 60min but no more than that and you can also increase the amount of days you do cardio just dont go balls to the walls the first week because you'll end up plateauing rather quickly and probably end up burning a bit of muscle

Also just curious to why you threw in lunges on your day with mostly bench when you did legs the previous day?

Post: #12

(04-13-2013 11:30 PM)AlphaEnchantment Wrote:  Also just curious to why you threw in lunges on your day with mostly bench when you did legs the previous day?

I hate lunges, but they do work wonderfully. I tried doing both on the same workout, but then my legs are too tired from the squats to maintain good form for a lunge. Lunges on a chest day give my legs a little rest and add depth to a relatively easy workout.

Post: #13

(04-14-2013 12:21 AM)one-two Wrote:  

(04-13-2013 11:30 PM)AlphaEnchantment Wrote:  Also just curious to why you threw in lunges on your day with mostly bench when you did legs the previous day?

I hate lunges, but they do work wonderfully. I tried doing both on the same workout, but then my legs are too tired from the squats to maintain good form for a lunge. Lunges on a chest day give my legs a little rest and add depth to a relatively easy workout.

Gotchya. I recently switched up my split to hamstrings lower back and calves on monday then quads and calves on like a thursday and it works well

I do Deadlifts - t bar rows - good mornings - lying hamstring curls - front loaded leg press - stiff legged deadlifts - seated leg curls - then superset seated calve raises with standing calve raises and on the other day its back squats - leg press - lunges - leg extensions - then the calves superset again. granted your still doing squats and lunges on the same day but I normally do them first when I have the most energy and work in higher rep ranges since Im cutting rather than doing sets of my 5 rep max which will deplete your energy rather quickly

Post: #14

(04-13-2013 05:19 PM)one-two Wrote:  Ensam:
My 1 rep maxes for the big three: squat ~ 280, bench ~ 205, deadlift ~ 340. I used to have deadlift and squat on the same day too, but then the rest of the week would be too easy. So I split it into legs, push, and pull. What's a "holding rep"?

A side effect of bad grammar. What I meant was I gradually increase the volume of my work out by leaving the number of reps in each set constant and increasing the weight during the first half of a six week cycle. Then I switch and keep the volume relatively constant by increasing weights and decreasing the number of reps in each set during the last 3 weeks. I find this helps break plateaus.

Post: #15

Check it out fellas. This is me squatting 275. I don't normally lift this heavy, but I figured this is the best weight to expose my weaknesses.

Now that I look at it from the side, my center of gravity shifts a LOT and at the bottom of the squat I've got the butt wink. Any advice on how to fix that?

Sorry the gif is so small, it seems like I can't upload files bigger than 1MB

Post: #16

(04-13-2013 08:03 AM)one-two Wrote:  Here is my three day split. I am 28yo, 6' tall, 169lb, 16% body fat. My goal is to be 10%. I realize that I should focus on calorie deficit and the workout is just for muscle maintenance. Do you have any recommendations about the exercises or their order?

Honestly dude it sounds like you know more than a lot of people here know what they are doing when it comes to working out. Id stick to BB.com or wherever your getting your advice from already.

The order of your exercises should be determined by several factors but I would always do the heavy compound first. As you continue through your workout you get weaker and weaker so the exercises at the end will suffer the most.

Its hard to say if you should reduce exercises or not, how long have you been lifting for and how consistently? I like your rep scheme, you know what your doing and I can tell you got prior advice on another forum.

Post: #17

OP, follow a set program that has already been written by someone who knows MUCH more than the rest of us in here. Programs that have been tested on hundreds, potentially thousands of people in the past.




If you want more of a "bodybuilding" routine but while still gaining some strength, check this out: http://www.jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-m...g-routine/

Quote:Mon: Lower
Squat: 3-4X6-8/3′ (3-4 sets of 6-8 with a 3′ rest)
SLDL or leg curl: 3-4X6-8/3′
Leg press: 2-3X10-12/2′
Another leg curl: 2-3X10-12/2′
Calf raise: 3-4X6-8/3′
Seated calf: 2-3X10-12/2′

Tue: Upper
Flat bench: 3-4X6-8/3′
Row: 3-4X6-8/3′
Incline bench or shoulder press: 2-3X10-12/2′
Pulldown/chin: 2-3X10-12/2′
Triceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5′
Biceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5′

For the Thu/Fri workouts either repeat the first two or make some slight exercise substitutions. Can do deadlift/leg press combo on Thu, switch incline/pulldown to first exercises on upper body day. A lot depends on volume tolerance, if the above is too much, go to 2-3X6-8 and 1-2X10-12

You may need to reduce the volume, or do a ABA BAB so that you only lift 3x a week depending on how big your calorie deficit is and how you feel.



If you want to gain some strength, check out the Texas Method. There are dozens of variations. The one below is what I start on Monday: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...181&page=1
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Texas_Method

Quote:The Texas Model works in 3 sessions:
High Volume / High Intensity Session
Low Volume / Low Intensity Session
Low Volume / High Intensity Session

In summary, this is how it is outlined:

Monday
High Volume / High Intensity Session
Squats 5 sets of 5 reps across
Bench Press 5 sets of 5 reps across
Bent Over Rows 5 sets of 5 reps across

Wednesday
Low Volume / Low Intensity Session
Squats 2 sets of 5 reps @ 80% of Monday
Press 3 sets of 5 reps
Deadlift 1 set of 5 reps
Chinups 3 sets of 5 reps across

Friday
Low Volume / High Intensity Session
Squats 1 set of 5 new PR
Bench Press 1 set of 5 new PR
Bent Over Rows 1 set of 5 new PR

However, the best advice I can give you is to go to an actual weight lifting forum for your weight lifting advice. You want advice on girls and travel? Come here. You want advice on lifting and nutrition? Check out bodybuilding.com forums or t-nation.com forums, or something similar.

Post: #18

(05-02-2013 08:39 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  The order of your exercises should be determined by several factors but I would always do the heavy compound first. As you continue through your workout you get weaker and weaker so the exercises at the end will suffer the most.

I agree, but there is something to be said about pre-tiring your support muscles beforehand. For example, some people do calves first, then squats. Did anyone try that?

(05-02-2013 08:39 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  How long have you been lifting for and how consistently?

I've been doing it regularly for a year now, at least three times a week. I definitely increased the weight I can lift, but my bodyfat just does not get below 16 for more than a couple of days. You know how they say, you can't out-train a bad diet.

(05-02-2013 10:22 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  However, the best advice I can give you is to go to an actual weight lifting forum for your weight lifting advice. You want advice on girls and travel? Come here. You want advice on lifting and nutrition? Check out bodybuilding.com forums or t-nation.com forums, or something similar.

Fair enough, thanks.

Post: #19

(05-03-2013 07:22 AM)one-two Wrote:  I agree, but there is something to be said about pre-tiring your support muscles beforehand. For example, some people do calves first, then squats. Did anyone try that?

Dumb and proven false. Pre exhausting just makes you weaker for the muscle you are trying to target. Its a myth. Whats your #1 priority for your body? Squats or calves? Do that one first. Whole point of 5 rep compound is to do it as heavy as possible, not take away from it. I dont want a body part fatigued when I got 300 lbs on my back.

Quote:I've been doing it regularly for a year now, at least three times a week. I definitely increased the weight I can lift, but my bodyfat just does not get below 16 for more than a couple of days. You know how they say, you can't out-train a bad diet.

Well this is a grey area because everyones body is different. Different reps and sets and # of exercises is different and has different results for everyone but if you are only at the 1 year mark I would overhaul (simplify) your split and try to do everything except deads and squats 2x or even 3x a week. After the newb gains phase the best way to continue to grow muscle is hitting the muscles multiple times in 1 week. If you were on year 3 of constant lifting I would like your current split a lot more.

(05-02-2013 10:22 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  However, the best advice I can give you is to go to an actual weight lifting forum for your weight lifting advice. You want advice on girls and travel? Come here. You want advice on lifting and nutrition? Check out bodybuilding.com forums or t-nation.com forums, or something similar.

Exactly. There is good advice on these boards but there is also a lot more bad advice then somewhere like BB.com.

Here is my split, I hit each body part 2x a week.

day 1: heavy weight/low rep legs, low weight-high rep back
day 2: heavy weight/low rep chest, low weight/high rep arms
day 3: heavy weight/low rep back, low weight/high rep legs
day 4: heavy weight/low rep arms, low weight/high rep chest

-The low weight/high reps I do about 66% of my max and work on increasing the reps more than increasing the weight. When I hit 20 reps I go to 12 reps and increase the weight the next week and work my way to 20 reps again.

-My arms/chest I do 2 exercises per workout, my legs I do 3 exercises per workout and back I do 3/4 exercises per workout. Back and legs are huge muscles so they need more exercises.

-When I am cutting I scrap all the low weight/high rep exercises and try to maintain lifting heavy as much as I can.

Post: #20

I think that part of the problem is the fact that you don't want to be always sore. Honestly, if you learn to enjoy the feeling of being sore and parallel it with improvement/ growth you'll be able to workout harder and get fitter which should reduce your body fat.
Also 16% is fairly lean and if your diet isn't healthy you probably won't drop below that. So make sure that you're diet is helping you with your goals.

Post: #21

(04-13-2013 06:26 PM)WesternCancer Wrote:  did you do the shrugs with straps?

by doubles and singles I mean sets of 2 or 1 reps.

I do shrugs every few weeks and I swear my traps get bigger every time. I work from 400lb (triples) to 500lb (doubles) to just under 600lb (single)

-- these aren't strict shrugs, they're more 'power shrugs' a la chaos and pain.

Love this. When you shrug you should be pissing all over the weight you deadlift. Power shrugs are good for strength AND aesthetics.

This is so much better than that pathetic 'shoulder roll' I see guys doing with the plates. How the hell can you work a muscle when you're not going against gravity?! Might make sense if they used a cable machine.

Post: #22

(04-13-2013 08:03 AM)one-two Wrote:  Here is my three day split. I am 28yo, 6' tall, 169lb, 16% body fat. My goal is to be 10%. I realize that I should focus on calorie deficit and the workout is just for muscle maintenance. Do you have any recommendations about the exercises or their order?

Back Squat: 135x10, 225x5, 225x3
Good Morning: 90x10, 90x10, 90x10
Calves: 50x20, 50x15, 50x10
Upright Row: 95x8, 95x5, 95x4
Abs Top: 15, 10, 5

Incline Bench Press: 115x10, 115x10, 115x10
Pullovers: 55x10, 65x10, 75x5
Dips: 15, 10, 5
Reverse Barbell Curls: 45x10, 45x10, 45x10
Lunges: 80x10, 90x10, 100x10

Deadlift: 225x5, 315x5, 335x1
Seated Rows: 150x5, 180x4, 180x2
Pullups: 10, 7, 4
Seated Front Press: 95x5, 95x5, 95x4
Abs Bottom: 10, 10, 10

You have some crazy numbers and imbalances considering your height and weight. I would drop the weight on your squat and deadlift and focus on technique. I would also drop most your excess exercises until you get stronger at the basics (ie bench, squat, deadlift, pullups). I would do a proven program for beginners. That will give you the best bang for your buck. Most have a template of 3 compound lifts that work the full body and the option of adding 2 isolation (beach) exercises at the end.

As for losing body fat add a session of cardio after your lifting. It could be as simple as going for a 30 min power walk. That plus eating clean will make the fat fall off really quick.

Post: #23

A lot of your numbers look good. Your routine looks pretty sharp, and all I would do is streamline because you look like an intermediate lifter (no offense, probably 96% of lifters are intermediate or beginner) and training complexity comes with time. I have the needed ones bolded.

Quote:Back Squat: 135x10, 225x5, 225x3
Good Morning: 90x10, 90x10, 90x10
Calves: 50x20, 50x15, 50x10
Upright Row: 95x8, 95x5, 95x4
Abs Top: 15, 10, 5

Incline Bench Press: 115x10, 115x10, 115x10
Pullovers: 55x10, 65x10, 75x5
Dips: 15, 10, 5
Reverse Barbell Curls: 45x10, 45x10, 45x10
Lunges: 80x10, 90x10, 100x10

Deadlift: 225x5, 315x5, 335x1
Seated Rows: 150x5, 180x4, 180x2
Pullups: 10, 7, 4
Seated Front Press: 95x5, 95x5, 95x4
Abs Bottom: 10, 10, 10

One thing you need more of is pressing. Always be overhead pressing. It will take you probably two years to overhead press your bodyweight but it's completely worth it from a body transformation standpoint.

I would also include more volume on the back squat and maybe even an extra set of deadlifts. You can cut out a lot of this routine and still make serious gains by adding an extra one or two sets. The best assistance exercise for the deadlift is the kroc row, which would be useful for you to add in a high rep range (like 20-30 reps) instead of barbell rows (I hate these).

Dips are very important for getting your press numbers up. I am surprised you don't press heavier considering you can dip that much, but get your dips in the neighborhood of 4 sets and 15-20 reps and then we're talking.

The other guys have good advice here too, but if your routine works where it's at, I would just include an extra day of overhead pressing a week and leave it at that.

Post: #24

"Pre exhausting just makes you weaker for the muscle you are trying to target. Its a myth."

Kai Greene would beg to differ with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...jtrnZbPqxI

Post: #25

(05-03-2013 07:49 AM)Jaylow Wrote:  I would overhaul (simplify) your split and try to do everything except deads and squats 2x or even 3x a week. After the newb gains phase the best way to continue to grow muscle is hitting the muscles multiple times in 1 week. If you were on year 3 of constant lifting I would like your current split a lot more.

You're right, maybe I'm over thinking it. More like looking for excuses . I should just stick with the 5x5 workout and focus on the diet.

(05-03-2013 07:49 AM)Jaylow Wrote:  -When I am cutting I scrap all the low weight/high rep exercises and try to maintain lifting heavy as much as I can.

I have no energy to lift heavy when I'm cutting, that's when I usually eat whole bunch of carbs, but the next day I can lift like a champ. I've increased my daily calorie allowance by a little bit to see if it helps.

(05-03-2013 11:56 AM)Cyr Wrote:  Also 16% is fairly lean and if your diet isn't healthy you probably won't drop below that. So make sure that you're diet is helping you with your goals.

I am skinny compared to an average Joe Schmoe. Still, my diet is probably the reason I can't reach my goal. I'll post my updated weights and macros soon.

(05-04-2013 10:25 AM)Surreyman Wrote:  When you shrug you should be pissing all over the weight you deadlift. Power shrugs are good for strength AND aesthetics.

This is so much better than that pathetic 'shoulder roll' I see guys doing with the plates. How the hell can you work a muscle when you're not going against gravity?! Might make sense if they used a cable machine.

I do upright rows for my traps. Don't have the straps for shrugs that heavy and I am guilty of doing the "shoulder roll" with dumbbells

(05-06-2013 11:41 AM)Ace Wrote:  You have some crazy numbers and imbalances considering your height and weight. I would drop the weight on your squat and deadlift and focus on technique. I would also drop most your excess exercises until you get stronger at the basics (ie bench, squat, deadlift, pullups). I would do a proven program for beginners. That will give you the best bang for your buck. Most have a template of 3 compound lifts that work the full body and the option of adding 2 isolation (beach) exercises at the end.

As for losing body fat add a session of cardio after your lifting. It could be as simple as going for a 30 min power walk. That plus eating clean will make the fat fall off really quick.

I am worried about the imbalance, but hopefully that will all improve with time (updated weights coming). You can check out my squat technique in the gif above. I do miss high rep squats with lighter weights, but they are a mental struggle. I think the general consensus is against high-rep deadlifts. I am not sure why, probably risk of injury.

I cook during the work week and its easy to stick to the meal plan then, but on the weekends I drink and eat out. To compensate, I walk 5-8 miles. I have the time and it's a lot more fun than running.

(05-06-2013 11:50 AM)Hades Wrote:  One thing you need more of is pressing. Always be overhead pressing. It will take you probably two years to overhead press your bodyweight but it's completely worth it from a body transformation standpoint.

Overhead press is my favorite. Really tough to add weight, but I am making progress.

(05-06-2013 11:50 AM)Hades Wrote:  The best assistance exercise for the deadlift is the kroc row, which would be useful for you to add in a high rep range (like 20-30 reps) instead of barbell rows (I hate these).

I'll try that. I see people do these all the time and I'm looking to have more dumbbell exercises in my routine.

(05-06-2013 11:50 AM)Hades Wrote:  Dips are very important for getting your press numbers up. I am surprised you don't press heavier considering you can dip that much, but get your dips in the neighborhood of 4 sets and 15-20 reps and then we're talking.

Good to know. I'll work on that.