Post: #101

(05-10-2013 08:41 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Well, we can test the Jewish thesis by evaluating Germany. They pretty much exterminated all of their Jews and Jews are afraid of Germans to this day.

Does Germany have high rates of low quality immigrants?

Does Germany have a welfare system that is highly abused?

Does Germany do anything through the EU to stop the masses of illegal Islamic immigration that comes in through Greece?

Quote:I tend to see this as an example of playing both sides of the field and analogous to the sort of financial chicanery that led to the 2008 economic meltdown. Heads I win, tails you lose, so to speak.

A very good point. No matter what the majority of whites choose (pro-immigration or anti-immigration), the Jews remain in power.

Well, I suppose if you don't get along with Jews, you can always move to China...

Germany has a massive immigration problem. 20% of the pop is non-German.

Post: #102

(05-10-2013 03:37 PM)kerouac Wrote:  Also-

Most of these problems deal with the lower classes. The upper classes don't care as much because they don't need to care; they can simply avoid the problem.

And since when in history have the upper classes cared about the plight of the underclasses?

Rich people are living better than ever, outsourcing their union/workers problems to far off lands where they don't have to hear about the problems anymore. Why would they, all of a sudden, look at the people who they used purely for their utility in some sort of new "white" light? Particularly now that they don't offer the same utility.

The upper classes don't have a national identity. Okay, some do, but the upper classes of the world have more in common with each other than their "lesser" national counterparts.

When you meet rich Iranians, Turks, Chinese, Russians, Italians, French, or whatever, they will get along much better in their cosmopolitan cliques than you can imagine. Point being, it's not so much of an ethnic issue, but an issue of class.

The lower classes in their respective countries feel "betrayed" but since when is this a new issue? Since when did the rich kids start caring about the poor kids?

True. For all this talk about crime on this thread (including one link of mine on Norway), Muslim immigrants are being made out to be more physically dangerous than they really are. As far as non-white immigration and its threat to Western culture, that’s obviously a different discussion, but a Youtube clip of some immigrant teenagers trying to act hard for cameras means nothing. The second video Teedub posted with the German woman was more meaningful because radical Islam should never be tolerated in any civilized part of the world.

Crime, on the other hand, doesn’t come from multiculturalism or racial diversity, or from being Muslim or black. Almost every country with a high crime rate has a high income disparity, with South Africa having the highest. There are other factors in various countries too, like effects of colonization, but the income gap is generally a strong predictor of crime rates.

Norway and Germany have some of the lowest crime rates in Europe and the world. Many predominately Muslim nations like Indonesia, Senegal, Mali, and several Arab nations also rank low in violent crime rates. Many diverse countries with substantial Muslim minorities like Singapore and Cameroon have some of the lowest levels of violent crime. You’re less likely to be a victim of a violent crime in any of these countries than you are in the United States.

Homogeneously white Eastern European countries have significantly higher crime rates, the highest in Europe. Like with African countries, some are worse than others. In Western Europe, the most violent cities are Glasgow and Belfast, both of which are close to 100% white. Not Paris, Berlin, Oslo, London, or any of the nearby Scottish cities with more ethnic diversity, but two nearly all-white cities. I guess it doesn’t really reach people unless it involves Scandinavian women getting raped and killed by Muslims and blacks. If race and religion were the causes of crime, the cities and countries I’ve mentioned wouldn’t have the crime rates they have.

Just like with the US, many European nations’ minorities are disproportionately represented in crime, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the problem will get worse over time with greater demographic change. In the US, for example, the crime rate has been steadily decreasing over the past several decades while also becoming more non-white.

Post: #103

(05-10-2013 03:37 PM)kerouac Wrote:  Also-

Most of these problems deal with the lower classes. The upper classes don't care as much because they don't need to care; they can simply avoid the problem.

And since when in history have the upper classes cared about the plight of the underclasses?

Rich people are living better than ever, outsourcing their union/workers problems to far off lands where they don't have to hear about the problems anymore. Why would they, all of a sudden, look at the people who they used purely for their utility in some sort of new "white" light? Particularly now that they don't offer the same utility.

The upper classes don't have a national identity. Okay, some do, but the upper classes of the world have more in common with each other than their "lesser" national counterparts.

When you meet rich Iranians, Turks, Chinese, Russians, Italians, French, or whatever, they will get along much better in their cosmopolitan cliques than you can imagine. Point being, it's not so much of an ethnic issue, but an issue of class.

The lower classes in their respective countries feel "betrayed" but since when is this a new issue? Since when did the rich kids start caring about the poor kids?

Theoretically, in western countries, there is a third class: a middle class. Neither rich nor lower class. They work and earn enough to afford a comfortable standard of living: a single-family home, heat and electricity, probably a car, healthy food, and enough money and free time to engage in some hobbies. They are organized into communities based on shared values, in particular high civic participation and trust in a local government that held to high standards. Local government, including the police, are peers and also members of the community. Corruption happens but is rare. The communities may include a substantial working class segment that is culturally similar with similar civic values, they just have less wealth. So long as they don't harbor much envy of their middle class neighbors, they will get along just fine.

Such communities will have some level of crime. That's when the police and courts are expected to do their job and keep it to a minimum. What I'm describing comes from an American perspective but I think most of the core traits are the same throughout Western countries. The details will differ and probably also social mobility, but that's the basic idea that separates middle class from upper class.

Upper class generally conveys a substantial amount of wealth, the ability to isolate yourself in gated communities, police that are lower class than you (even if they situationally may have more power-- see Reese Whitherspoon), substantial luxury including cultural education at an elite college, possibly peer access to state and national government, and of course "ownership of the means of production", which can generalized to mean capitalist power. Unlike middle class children, upper class children are less likely to have ever had lower class friends or real middle class values. They're more likely to believe they're better than you and of course that's going to cause friction with lower class people they may encounter.

Most western countries, in the latter half of the 20th century, had a solid core of primarily middle class population. There was always an underclass and an upper class but the middle class had a lot of power.

Quote:The lower classes in their respective countries feel "betrayed" but since when is this a new issue? Since when did the rich kids start caring about the poor kids?

The new issue is that "multiculturalism" and anti-racist (as opposed to mere anti-discrimination) ideology has helped silence the middle class, making it more difficult to talk frankly about these problems and conflicts.

Post: #104

Atilla,

I think it's reasonable to agree that crime rates can rise for more than one reason, and diversity does not always cause higher crime. However I would not agree that diversity doesn't ever lead to higher crime or that some cultures and ethnic groups are less compatible than with others.

Quote:Just like with the US, many European nations’ minorities are disproportionately represented in crime, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the problem will get worse over time with greater demographic change. In the US, for example, the crime rate has been steadily decreasing over the past several decades while also becoming more non-white.

It's probably worth noting that the US incarceration rate has also gone up dramatically during that same time period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._i...nwards.png

Post: #105

(05-10-2013 06:43 PM)j r Wrote:  

(05-10-2013 07:42 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-08-2013 08:44 AM)j r Wrote:  According to this, Norway is IRT paradise. That sounds suspect. One thing that I've noticed about white nationalists is that they all seem to assume that white woman have suddenly developed a brown fetish.

Actually, white women do go for these Islamic men because they can beat and intimidate these women with zero fear of repercussion from the state. The state, and it's PC bullshit, will ignore these crimes in fear of looking racist.

I talked about how Tamerlane was charged with domestic violence and yet was let go, and his wife still took him:

http://www.returnofkings.com/9968/the-am...l-time-low

Then Roosh validated my analysis when he provided me with this link showing that 75 percent of all Islamic converts each year are overwhelmingly women:

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/s...ting-islam

The rulers of white countries are literally betraying their own population in order to maintain control over it.

That Clarion article is a case of first class fear-mongering with very little real information to back it up. First it says that a "staggering number of women" are converting to Islam. It doesn't offer a number, though. Instead it says that " tens of thousands of Westerners" convert to Islam every ear. How many people are there in theWest? Just counting Europe and North America gives you about 1.4 billion people. And how many is tens of thousands? Ten thousand? A hundred thousand? Let's split the difference and say that 55,000 westerners convert to Islam every year. That's .004 percent of the population.

Staggering, right?

I think the problem is much more pronounced than most realize because these women are converting in areas where Muslims are already growing rapidly as a percentage of the cities population, such as Oslo, Marseilles, or Beirut.

Too bad we can't measure this, because PC controls work to hide and obscure such information.

Post: #106

(05-11-2013 05:34 AM)Atilla Wrote:  In the US, for example, the crime rate has been steadily decreasing over the past several decades while also becoming more non-white.

It's not becoming non-white, it's becoming less 'white' (read: Northern European Protestant decent). Speakeasy and myself have discussed this on various threads. Expect over the next 20 years the majority Euro-descent 'Latinos' becoming accepted as 'white' - as they indeed are.

Post: #107

(05-11-2013 01:32 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(05-11-2013 05:34 AM)Atilla Wrote:  In the US, for example, the crime rate has been steadily decreasing over the past several decades while also becoming more non-white.

It's not becoming non-white, it's becoming less 'white' (read: Northern European Protestant decent). Speakeasy and myself have discussed this on various threads. Expect over the next 20 years the majority Euro-descent 'Latinos' becoming accepted as 'white' - as they indeed are.

I worked with criminals from California, and part of why crime is down is that they are locking up the really bad guys ( say, 3 or more robberies or other violence) for a LONG time. I'M 75% in favor of it, because I can walk around night in major cities and the type of assholes who would have harassed/robbed me in the 1970s are locked up. Sometimes it's going too far, and it costs a ton of money. Some less violent guys could be on house arrest or something.

But you've got to have some fucking rules. You should see the rap sheets I've seen, thugs don't do serious time (> 1 yr) until like their 3rd or 4th armed robbery. They badly need to be in jail.

Most guys in level 3+4 (the worst guys) have over 15 arrests starting at maybe 10-13 years old, building up to some terrifying carjacking or the like that scared the living shit out of a decent citizen. They need to be in jail or some VERY closely supervised environment.

Post: #108

(05-11-2013 01:32 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(05-11-2013 05:34 AM)Atilla Wrote:  In the US, for example, the crime rate has been steadily decreasing over the past several decades while also becoming more non-white.

It's not becoming non-white, it's becoming less 'white' (read: Northern European Protestant decent). Speakeasy and myself have discussed this on various threads. Expect over the next 20 years the majority Euro-descent 'Latinos' becoming accepted as 'white' - as they indeed are.

The "white" Latino population in the US is virtually zero. Most Latinos in the US are Mexican, specifically the Mexican underclass, and have almost no Spanish or other European ancestry.

I guess I can see that "white" immigration is better than other types of immigration to the extent "white" is shorthand for immigration of wealthier, better educated, more culturally similar people. But at the end of the day, displacement is displacement. If Brits followed the example of the US and became a tiny minority (10-20%) in the UK, it would be better to be displaced by Germans or Poles than Pakistanis, but aren't both outcomes undesirable? I like the Japanese and consider them generally superior to Americans but wouldn't even want them to displace Americans in the US because I want the option to live with be governed by people of the same culture.

It is impressive how 1920s era Americans were right about everything. The immigration laws passed then (on the books until 1965) kept immigration from all areas (including Europe) very low and within that small number discriminated heavily in favor of the groups most similar and easily assimilated (NW Europeans). The US is beyond recovery but Europeans aren't so far gone as to be unable to follow a similar approach (Germany had a somewhat similar approach until recently).

Post: #109

(05-11-2013 06:15 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(05-11-2013 01:32 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(05-11-2013 05:34 AM)Atilla Wrote:  In the US, for example, the crime rate has been steadily decreasing over the past several decades while also becoming more non-white.

It's not becoming non-white, it's becoming less 'white' (read: Northern European Protestant decent). Speakeasy and myself have discussed this on various threads. Expect over the next 20 years the majority Euro-descent 'Latinos' becoming accepted as 'white' - as they indeed are.

The "white" Latino population in the US is virtually zero. Most Latinos in the US are Mexican, specifically the Mexican underclass, and have almost no Spanish or other European ancestry.

In 15 years in California, I don't think I've ever had a Mexican even be rude to me.

I don't know about stuff like using up gubmint resources and so forth, I don't know the economics, but compared to other immigrant populations, in my day to day life here Mexicans are probably among the nicest people you could be invaded by.

Post: #110

(05-11-2013 06:15 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  I guess I can see that "white" immigration is better than other types of immigration to the extent "white" is shorthand for immigration of wealthier, better educated, more culturally similar people. But at the end of the day, displacement is displacement. If Brits followed the example of the US and became a tiny minority (10-20%) in the UK, it would be better to be displaced by Germans or Poles than Pakistanis, but aren't both outcomes undesirable?

Considering that the Brits are basically a mix of Celts, Germans, and Romans, and that they have a large amount of unattractive people, maybe sprinkling in a little bit more fresh Polish/German genes into their gene pool wouldn't be a bad thing.

Unless the Pakistanis can guarantee their future children will look like this:


(Speaking purely from what I think my penis would like better)

Post: #111

(05-11-2013 11:51 AM)Blaster Wrote:  I think it's reasonable to agree that crime rates can rise for more than one reason, and diversity does not always cause higher crime. However I would not agree that diversity doesn't ever lead to higher crime or that some cultures and ethnic groups are less compatible than with others.

We’ve been discussing Norway and Germany, both of which have some of the lowest crime rates in Europe and the world. German women marry Turkish men more than any other non-German men. I realize they’re the biggest minority there, but how incompatible could Turkish people be if Turkish men account for the highest rates of inter-marriage with German women and there is low crime relative to the rest of Europe? Because Turks and Muslims are just annoying to see in Germany?

(05-11-2013 11:51 AM)Blaster Wrote:  It's probably worth noting that the US incarceration rate has also gone up dramatically during that same time period.

War on Drugs.
I’m not talking about incarceration rates, I’m talking about real crimes involving violence. Violent crimes have steadily decreased since 1925. “Gangs of New York” and many similar movies demonstrate the kind of crime prevalent during these times.

Post: #112

(05-11-2013 06:15 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(05-11-2013 01:32 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(05-11-2013 05:34 AM)Atilla Wrote:  In the US, for example, the crime rate has been steadily decreasing over the past several decades while also becoming more non-white.

It's not becoming non-white, it's becoming less 'white' (read: Northern European Protestant decent). Speakeasy and myself have discussed this on various threads. Expect over the next 20 years the majority Euro-descent 'Latinos' becoming accepted as 'white' - as they indeed are.

The "white" Latino population in the US is virtually zero. Most Latinos in the US are Mexican, specifically the Mexican underclass, and have almost no Spanish or other European ancestry.

According to Wiki: "As of 2010, 50.5 million or 16.3% of Americans were ethnically Hispanic or Latino.[15] Of those, 26.7 million, or 53%, were White." and apparently 63% of these are Mexicans who self identify themselves as white, which could explain it.

If they look like this:



Then they are blatantly saying they are white for the socio-status reasons, but if they look like this:



...then they're right. Because even if the above is mestizo, then you're talking 5% perhaps. Anywhere but the U.S, he's white. Hell, he looks 'whiter' than most Greeks I know.

Anyway, don't want to derail any more than we have so here's something relevant:





Thoughts?

Post: #113

(05-11-2013 11:25 PM)Atilla Wrote:  

(05-11-2013 11:51 AM)Blaster Wrote:  I think it's reasonable to agree that crime rates can rise for more than one reason, and diversity does not always cause higher crime. However I would not agree that diversity doesn't ever lead to higher crime or that some cultures and ethnic groups are less compatible than with others.

We’ve been discussing Norway and Germany, both of which have some of the lowest crime rates in Europe and the world. German women marry Turkish men more than any other non-German men. I realize they’re the biggest minority there, but how incompatible could Turkish people be if Turkish men account for the highest rates of inter-marriage with German women and there is low crime relative to the rest of Europe? Because Turks and Muslims are just annoying to see in Germany?

(05-11-2013 11:51 AM)Blaster Wrote:  It's probably worth noting that the US incarceration rate has also gone up dramatically during that same time period.

War on Drugs.
I’m not talking about incarceration rates, I’m talking about real crimes involving violence. Violent crimes have steadily decreased since 1925. “Gangs of New York” and many similar movies demonstrate the kind of crime prevalent during these times.

The BJS junior employee who came up with that chart didn't even bother to change the default Excel data series color, delete gridlines, format the y-axis for thousand comma separation, or keep consistent capitalization?

2/10 WNB.

Post: #114

(05-10-2013 12:34 PM)Galnuc69 Wrote:  When did America colonize Mexico

Around 1848-1850.

Prior to that is was 'Americans' settling in Mexican held Texas that was the trigger point for the war, and afterwards places like California, New Mexico, Arizona, etc all become parts of what was Mexico as newly sovereign U.S., and colonised by 'Americans'.

Post: #115

(05-11-2013 11:25 PM)Atilla Wrote:  War on Drugs.
I’m not talking about incarceration rates, I’m talking about real crimes involving violence. Violent crimes have steadily decreased since 1925. “Gangs of New York” and many similar movies demonstrate the kind of crime prevalent during these times.

There are still too many variables to know for sure diversity is not a factor. I wasn't trying to say that law enforcement is the only reason for the decrease in crime. It's not like the assertion that "national crime down, national diversity up" is a reasonable correlation to begin with. It's not like you can take an alternate reality of the past 20 years that involves less immigration and see whether the crime rates go up or down.

Post: #116

(05-08-2013 04:35 AM)bojangles Wrote:  Pakistani men here kidnap and groom girls who are just little children.

Yet another case:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ators.html

Quote:The victims – aged 11 to 15 – were befriended with gifts of perfume, alcohol and drugs before being subjected to a ‘living hell’ of extreme physical and sexual violence for eight years. Yesterday five men of Pakistani origin and two of Eritrean heritage were facing lengthy jail terms after being convicted of a string of crimes.

This pisses me off:

Quote:The case is the latest involving men of predominantly Asian origin picking up underage white girls for sex.

It isn't 'Asians'. I hate the fact they skirt around the issue. It's always Muslim men, who are predominantly Pakistani origin. It isn't Hindus or Sikhs, and in a broader sense, it isn't Chinese, Japanese etc.

You don't get "7 Burmese men arrested in Leicester for child grooming". It happens, sure, but not on the scale it's been happening with these types.

The police have a lot to answer for, as they were more concerned with being PC than doing their jobs. I suspect a Common Purpose graduate was in charge.

Post: #117

What kind of inept law enforcement do you guys have over there?

Ah of course:

Quote:Oxfordshire County Council's chief executive Joanna Simons, left, and Thames Valley Police chief constable Sara Thornton, right, have both refused to resign despite their organisations' failure to stop the abuse sooner

Post: #118

That's a huge part of the problem. Women are a lot more riddled with P.C. That's because women tend to authority, whilst also going out of their way not to 'offend' people. You see this in their interactions with each other. Of course, they're also utterly solipsistic so unless this is happening to their kids, it isn't as important.

Post: #119

(05-11-2013 06:15 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  The "white" Latino population in the US is virtually zero. Most Latinos in the US are Mexican, specifically the Mexican underclass, and have almost no Spanish or other European ancestry.

A very large percentage of Mexicans would not stand out in much of Europe. Mediterranean and Eastern European people are often confused for being Mexicans in California.

In my opinion, it’s a bit counter to this forum to be so adamantly opposed to non-Western immigration. I'm not saying you have to support uncontrolled immigration from non-white countries, but there are social advantages. Mexican chicks are friendly as hell, no matter the ratios. Mexican 9s are less arrogant than American 6s, but I know that's not saying much.

Also, many white men in the US have found happiness and love (with lower divorce rates) with Asian-American women.

Quote:I guess I can see that "white" immigration is better than other types of immigration to the extent "white" is shorthand for immigration of wealthier, better educated, more culturally similar people. But at the end of the day, displacement is displacement. If Brits followed the example of the US and became a tiny minority (10-20%) in the UK, it would be better to be displaced by Germans or Poles than Pakistanis, but aren't both outcomes undesirable? I like the Japanese and consider them generally superior to Americans but wouldn't even want them to displace Americans in the US because I want the option to live with be governed by people of the same culture.

It is impressive how 1920s era Americans were right about everything. The immigration laws passed then (on the books until 1965) kept immigration from all areas (including Europe) very low and within that small number discriminated heavily in favor of the groups most similar and easily assimilated (NW Europeans). The US is beyond recovery but Europeans aren't so far gone as to be unable to follow a similar approach (Germany had a somewhat similar approach until recently).

I’m not saying most Turks are “white” in a Nordic way that Americans would consider white. However, they do have features typical of the Mediterranean and Caucasus. Either way, Turks who mix with Germans and Brits as a general rule will have children or grandchildren resembling Western Europeans. Some, like Mesut Ozil, still stand out, but most could pass for westerners:

Sebnem Schaefer: half-Turkish, half-German


Tiffany Amber Thiessen: part-Turkish on her mother’s side


Mehmet Scholl: Turkish father, German mother


Jason Tahincioglu: I’m assuming he’s half-English because of his first name and place of birth


There are also, of course, lots of people in Turkey who already can pass for Western Europeans.

Post: #120

That's because the origin of the Turkish peoples and the Germanic peoples are not so far away from each other. I am not a historian, but I think they all came from the (Now) Russian steppes at various points in history.