Post: #1

http://io9.com/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-...-496098276

Same wine is rated differently by the same judges.

White wine is dyed red and then rated as red by unknowing wine critics.

Summary: wine tasting is BS.


I've always believed this about wine, beer, whiskey, coffee, chocolate, all of it. It's just snobbery. These so-called experts are easily fooled and show themselves to be full of it. Then on the other end of the spectrum you've got hipsters professing their love for PBR to show how they're down with the working stiff.

Jim Norton Fan likes taco shop tacos but also likes taco bell. JNF likes cheap crap mostly and I don't care what anybody thinks of it. I can't see why anyone gives a damn what other people think of their tastes. I say it's insecurity.

Now, if some dude knows all the tasting lingo and uses it to impress ladies, what kind of game is that called? Then, I can see a practical purpose to this crap. That and using it in business. Like some dude talking about cigars and making asshole clients feel special and wanting to sign contracts because they're doing business with some dude who knows more about cigars than Castro and Bill Clinton combined.

Post: #2

Agreed that wine judging and critique is pretty bullshit - everyone's tastes will be different and no matter how much we try to remain objective our moods will affect us. Robert Parker Jr has remarked how the difference beetwen a 99-point and 100-point wine depended on his general mood on the day. Same with PUA and women really, one person's 9 is another's 5.

That said, as a guy in the wine industry, i'm skeptical as to some of the studies in the link there. I mean, how much red food colouring do you need to add to a white to make it as deep as a Cabernet Sauvignon? Or maybe it was just lightly dyed and passed as a Rose, but even so the main fruit characteristics should still be evident. PUA example: A redhead who dyes her hair blond will still have red pubes.

Also, wine isn't just judged on just taste and sight, smell (aromatics) and texture (acid/tannins) play important roles as well, and will round off the whole wine experience.

I also take issue with the price = quality conclusion in the article - The best wine is the one that YOU will enjoy, regardless of the price. Knowledge of wine regions, terroir and vintage will help you make an informed choice. Say you buy a Chablis - you'll search for another chardonnay grown in similar soils, climate and geographical location, and hope the price is more affordable there. PUA example - you like asian girls, go to Thailand to get more bang for your buck.

Disclosure - I work in the wine industry and i'm slightly drunk on Riesling and Shiraz as i type this up.

Post: #3

There's a handful of people who were born with ridiculous senses of smell and taste that can pick out individual flavors and chemicals.

Pabst sold their beer in China for 20 times the regular price and it's considered a high class luxury item over there, if that tells you anything about people associating price with quality and status.

http://business.time.com/2010/07/28/sell...-in-china/

There have been wine companies that do the same thing, bump up their price to increase sales.

Post: #4

(05-09-2013 09:17 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  There's a handful of people who were born with ridiculous senses of smell and taste that can pick out individual flavors and chemicals.

Pabst sold their beer in China for 20 times the regular price and it's considered a high class luxury item over there, if that tells you anything about people associating price with quality and status.

http://business.time.com/2010/07/28/sell...-in-china/

There have been wine companies that do the same thing, bump up their price to increase sales.

Just reaffirming that this is an issue of status, and not of taste. China is the spoilt billionaire heiress of the world right now. And they still demand to have corks in their wines even though stelvin (screwcaps) closures have been proven to be superior for wine preservation.

Post: #5

I'm a supertaster - as is 1 in 4 of you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/w...upertaster

It is a pain in the arse really, in many ways. Since you find that most of the food you ever come across just tastes bad.

Anyway - I am not sure about the others here. But I had a friend who couldn't tell Pepsi from Coke. Which I thought was really strange.

And - whisky was mentioned earlier. Well - I can deifnitely tell my different bourbons apart. But - I still agree that their is a placebo element involved. Your favourite bourbon from an unknown bottle will seem different to your favourite bourbon coming from the same bottle. The expectation of something nice seems to add to the enjoyment. Which then makes it taste better.

Also - would you enjoy a scoop of chocolate ice cream the same as a scoop which had being skillfully shaped to look like a dog turd?

Post: #6

I would laugh my ass off if Thunderbird, Night Train Express, or even Boone's Farm got a 90+ score at a contest in a blind tasting. I think they embalm bodies with Thunderbird.

Post: #7

(05-09-2013 09:13 AM)Tengen Wrote:  Agreed that wine judging and critique is pretty bullshit - everyone's tastes will be different and no matter how much we try to remain objective our moods will affect us. Robert Parker Jr has remarked how the difference beetwen a 99-point and 100-point wine depended on his general mood on the day. Same with PUA and women really, one person's 9 is another's 5.

Let's not get carried away here.

Mens' rank-order ratings of female looks is probably one of the most consistent ratings you can get from people on anything, whether that consistency be measured across time or across different individuals.

Post: #8

Anyone else notice that Coke tastes much nicer in glass bottles, than it does in cans or plastic bottles?

Post: #9

Same with water.

Part real, part psychological. Look at how glass looks like really pure ice.

Post: #10

It's somewhat legit. I've done some blind taste testings with friends. The general consensus was that a $9-14 bottle almost always tastes better than a $5 bottle and that a $20+ bottle tastes better than a $14 bottle about half the time. Once you go above that it's a lot harder to tell but my friend who works in a wine store was pretty good at ranking bottles by cost blindly; even though she didn't think the most expensive tasted the best she could still tell the difference.

That said I think most critics are full of shit. If you want to learn about wine talk to someone who actually makes it or sells it.

Post: #11

I've got thrown out of some of those wine tasting parties.

One time I puked in the spit bucket.

I love going to those and just getting shit faced.

Aloha!

Post: #12

Quality and types distinctions definitely exist; the bullshit comes in when critics attempt to make finer and finer ratings distinctions which are matters of personal taste

Post: #13

(05-09-2013 07:56 PM)Ensam Wrote:  It's somewhat legit. I've done some blind taste testings with friends. The general consensus was that a $9-14 bottle almost always tastes better than a $5 bottle and that a $20+ bottle tastes better than a $14 bottle about half the time. Once you go above that it's a lot harder to tell but my friend who works in a wine store was pretty good at ranking bottles by cost blindly; even though she didn't think the most expensive tasted the best she could still tell the difference.

That said I think most critics are full of shit. If you want to learn about wine talk to someone who actually makes it or sells it.

THe last few months I've gotten into buying wine, reading about it, and telling the difference between different types.

Wine tasting is legit, in the sense that there really are differences between different types of wines and qualities. Wine has an amazing array of different fragrances and tastes.

A lot of times these "psychological studies" are done with random people who have no discriminating taste. I'm not sure what the high end of the wine tasting world is, but I have bought some 20+ dollar bottles of wine, and could pick up subtleties that were reflected in online reviews of the same wine.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet, even if it's gussied up in some New York Times article and has psychological studies backing it.

With that said, yes many people are "full of it" when it comes to stating what they prefer. Much of the time its just brand loyalty and not actually distinction of taste.

This goes for most lager beers like Coors, Miller, PBR, etc. Those "common folk" are making their purchases based upon brand loyalty. You give those untrained people a blind taste test, they won't know what they are drinking.

To generalize that to EVERYTHING is a good way to write off a lot of cool experiences and a fine appreciation of quality products.

Post: #14

(05-09-2013 09:13 AM)Tengen Wrote:  PUA example: A redhead who dyes her hair blond will still have red pubes.

No she won't. A redhead who dyes her hair blonde will be waxed bald. But we get what you're trying to say.

Post: #15

(05-09-2013 08:40 AM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  http://io9.com/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-...-496098276

Same wine is rated differently by the same judges.

White wine is dyed red and then rated as red by unknowing wine critics.

Summary: wine tasting is BS.


I've always believed this about wine, beer, whiskey, coffee, chocolate, all of it. It's just snobbery. These so-called experts are easily fooled and show themselves to be full of it. Then on the other end of the spectrum you've got hipsters professing their love for PBR to show how they're down with the working stiff.

Jim Norton Fan likes taco shop tacos but also likes taco bell. JNF likes cheap crap mostly and I don't care what anybody thinks of it. I can't see why anyone gives a damn what other people think of their tastes. I say it's insecurity.

Now, if some dude knows all the tasting lingo and uses it to impress ladies, what kind of game is that called? Then, I can see a practical purpose to this crap. That and using it in business. Like some dude talking about cigars and making asshole clients feel special and wanting to sign contracts because they're doing business with some dude who knows more about cigars than Castro and Bill Clinton combined.

Hyperbole much?

Wine scoring and judging might be bogus in your eyes but making a blanket statement like "Wine tasting is bogus" is pretty ignorant.

I do wine tastings for my friends. I'll open 3 bottles of burgundy from different sub appellations to see how different towns make completely different wine from the same grape. It's interesting, and if it's your hobby, it's pretty fucking fun and you're shitfaced at the end of it.

Wine is fun, it's meant to be fun. Do some jackasses take it too far, over-intellectualize it, and turn it into some overly official experience? Of course. Just like anything else. There's dick swinging in every hobby.

But wine is not bullshit or inherently snobby. Making those assertions just makes you sound like a redneck. It sucks if that's been your experience with it, but it means you need to figure out what the big deal is on your own terms, and forget about Robert Parker or official wine ratings.

Post: #16

I'm a craftbeer person and it's so obnoxious when wine drinkers get into beer. shoving their noses in the beer, swirling the glass, and taking tiny ass sips, I can't stand it.

Post: #17

(05-09-2013 08:39 PM)MrXY Wrote:  Quality and types distinctions definitely exist; the bullshit comes in when critics attempt to make finer and finer ratings distinctions which are matters of personal taste

At the end of the day, the best wine in the world, bar none, is the FREE wine.

(05-09-2013 11:22 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

(05-09-2013 08:40 AM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  http://io9.com/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-...-496098276

Same wine is rated differently by the same judges.

White wine is dyed red and then rated as red by unknowing wine critics.

Summary: wine tasting is BS.


I've always believed this about wine, beer, whiskey, coffee, chocolate, all of it. It's just snobbery. These so-called experts are easily fooled and show themselves to be full of it. Then on the other end of the spectrum you've got hipsters professing their love for PBR to show how they're down with the working stiff.

Now, if some dude knows all the tasting lingo and uses it to impress ladies, what kind of game is that called? Then, I can see a practical purpose to this crap. That and using it in business. Like some dude talking about cigars and making asshole clients feel special and wanting to sign contracts because they're doing business with some dude who knows more about cigars than Castro and Bill Clinton combined.

Hyperbole much?

Wine scoring and judging might be bogus in your eyes but making a blanket statement like "Wine tasting is bogus" is pretty ignorant.

I do wine tastings for my friends. I'll open 3 bottles of burgundy from different sub appellations to see how different towns make completely different wine from the same grape. It's interesting, and if it's your hobby, it's pretty fucking fun and you're shitfaced at the end of it.

Wine is fun, it's meant to be fun. Do some jackasses take it too far, over-intellectualize it, and turn it into some overly official experience? Of course. Just like anything else. There's dick swinging in every hobby.

But wine is not bullshit or inherently snobby. Making those assertions just makes you sound like a redneck. It sucks if that's been your experience with it, but it means you need to figure out what the big deal is on your own terms, and forget about Robert Parker or official wine ratings.

Wine should be a beverage of pleasure... dont get too hung up on ratings and etc, advice should be taken from many sources, and ultimately comes to YOU to be educated in the matter.

It will take time and effort, but once you learn to tell the crap from the good, it would be very hard for anyone to pull the wolly over your eyes.

I second the thought that there are supertasters, and that the average person simply doesnt care about taste all that much. Like a musician who hears things in a piece, a trained taster can picukp and differenciate things that are part of a wine.

Anyway, the fun of wine is when it tells you a story of a time and place that cannot be repeated. Even better when this story is playing magic with the food. It could be a $10 bottle and burgers, or a $50 bottle poured over the back of a beautiful dame (highly recommended!) but it can have the power of a peak experience, however brief and fleeting.
Wine is purely sensorially pleasurable. Enhanced by the more you learn.
And that is why learning about wine is worth it. Hence the 'chasing the dragon' many wine geeks have.

Post: #18

Wine. It can get you laid.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #19

Now this,this is a wine tasting!

Post: #20

(05-09-2013 08:27 PM)Kona Wrote:  I've got thrown out of some of those wine tasting parties.

One time I puked in the spit bucket.

I love going to those and just getting shit faced.

Aloha!

Why'd they throw you out if you made it to the bucket?

Post: #21

(05-09-2013 07:49 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Anyone else notice that Coke tastes much nicer in glass bottles, than it does in cans or plastic bottles?

RC Cola in a can is the best tasting soda. I can;t stand the taste of Coke in a plastic bottle.