Post: #1

Yes. We all have some sort of accent when we speak a foreign language. However, the accent that comes out of the mouth of an American speaker is so easy to spot, and it’s so goddamn ugly sounding. I fucking hate it. You’re not speaking English, so for fucks sake, don’t pronounce those words like you are speaking English.

I’m really cognizant about phonology in languages, so it’s pretty easy for me to figure out what these common faults American English speakers make that they can easily prevent.

UK and Australian speakers also share similar “fault patterns” to those of Americans, so the following advice does apply. I've also read something similar to what I'm going to write here somewhere, so there might be a similar article somewhere in the net, though I don't remember where to find it.

1. Stop trying to add your own subjective intonation to the language.
Generally, there are three types of stress patterns in a language: syllable-timed, stressed-time, and mora-timed.

In syllable-timed languages, every syllable takes up the same amount of time. Examples: Chinese, Spanish, French, Italian, the Fino-Ugric languages (Hungarian, Finnish, Estonian), etc. Listen to Spanish news. This characteristic is clear as day.

A mora-timed language is similar to a syllable-timed language, but certain syllables could take twice (or more) time than other syllables (essentially, certain syllables are “monomoraic” and others are “bimoraic”). Japanese is an example of such a language.

English is a stress-timed language. This means that the time interval between each stress is roughly equal.

The clash is most obvious when English speakers try to stress-time syllable-timed languages like Spanish or French. This is a dead giveaway, so take special care not to do this. Keep all the syllables equal length. This still applies if the language has stress (in general, the stress patterns are predictable in syllable-timed language: for example, the stress is either in the last or penultimate syllable in Spanish by a very clear rule)

Yes, there are other stress-timed languages, but you’ll still sound like shit if you try to apply English stress patterns to these languages. You need to apply their own patterns.

Russian is a noticeable example of a stress-timed language. Some other examples: Arabic, German, and I think the Scandinavian languages. The best thing to do with these languages is to learn the word stresses in your vocabulary list well as well as learn the rule as to how to properly reduce the vowel lengths of unstressed syllables (the rules to а, е, о in Russian, for example).

2. Stop reducing vowels to freaking schwa sounds.
The “schwa” sound is the sound of the vowel roughly of that when you say “uh” or that of the last syllable of “intention”.

A lot of English speakers feel that if a syllable isn’t stressed, you can just laze away and schwa-it up.

Don’t be one of those. In fact, there are quite a few languages that don’t even have the schwa sound. Spanish is an example. Each vowel is freaking pure, so pronounce them properly and fully.

General rule for foreign languages: start with the assumption that each vowel has one AND ONLY ONE sound; don’t force other stupid sounds like the schwa into a letter. Of course, this isn’t always true for all languages, but it’s better to use this as a starting point and learn any new vowel sounds are than starting with the arrogant belief that you can pronounce a certain vowel combination in a variety of English-esque ways.

3. Stop diphthongizing vowels
Say the word “say” slowly. You’ll notice that there are two vowel sounds to “say”, so it sounds a bit like “SEH-EI”. This is what a “diphthong” is: when you glide together two (or more) vowel sounds in one syllable.

Example: in Spanish, I’ve heard people pronouncing “Qué” as “Kay”. Like wtf? You obviously sound like shit, so stop. There is only one vowel sound in “Que” and this vowel exists in English (say “bet”), so there’s no excuse for anyone not to pronounce this word correctly.

More examples: the French word “sais”. Pronounce it like the English “say” and you’ll sound stupid. Pronounce it like a quick “seh”, and you will be far closer to the target. Also: the French word “non”. There should only be one vowel here. Don’t try turning this into an English “no”.

In general, the vowels where English speakers tend to diphthongize when they’re not supposed to are the e and o vowels.

Another corollary here: Americans tend to be too freaking lax when pronouncing vowels. Tighten your lazy ass mouth. When you pronounce “tu” in Spanish, it should be quick and tense. If you pronounce it like “two” and have the vowel resonant for 5000 seconds, then you’re not doing it right.

Another note: diphthongs do exist in most languages, but it is safe to pay attention in pronouncing the vowels purely and separately in the beginning and then combining them.

4. The freaking R sound.
The English R sound doesn’t freaking exist in most languages, so get rid of it.

In most popular languages you encounter, you either trill the R like in Spanish, or have that slightly guttural uvular R like in French.

This is especially present at the end of words like “tener” in Spanish or “pour” in French.

In addition, sometimes English speakers add this R when it’s not even in the word.

The first time I heard a Brit pronounce the word “idea” as “idear”, I was like what the flying fuck? How the hell did you manage to sound Chinese all of a sudden?

Now, that was an extreme example, but make special care you don’t leak out this R in other languages.


There’s other stuff too, but I think this is a good start for most of the errors. I didn’t cover sounds that don’t exist in English, but I may do that in the future.

Actually, I’ll cover one vowel: the French u or according to IPA, the /y/ sound. Pronouncing this is a piece of cake: pronounce an English “u” vowel. Notice that your lips are rounded. It’s no surprise that the English “u” is a rounded vowel. Now, pronounce the vowel in the word “cheese” (it’s like the letter E). Sustain this note. You’ll notice that you’re either slightly smiling or smiling like a dumbass. Either way, that’s a good start. Now, just round your mouth without changing the vowel sound. Congrats, you made the /y/ sound.

In any case, I’m a huge fan of foreign languages, so I’ve read up and broken down many things in this subject. Perhaps this will be a good general place to discuss difficulties in pronunciation or whatnot.

Post: #2

Every time I hear an Anglo (usually American) pronounce the word niche as nitch it drives me bonkers, its pronounced as neesh fellas.

Post: #3

theres a difference between accent and just poor pronunciation. an accent is pretty meaningless to me.its hard to fool someone into thinking youre not foreign. niche as "nitch" is just straight wrong, but centrifugal as "crentif <uh> gal" and "centrif<you>gal" is fine, imo

Post: #4

(05-18-2013 07:37 AM)scotian Wrote:  Every time I hear an Anglo (usually American) pronounce the word niche as nitch it drives me bonkers, its pronounced as neesh fellas.

and clique as "click". OMFG. "Your click has really found it's nitch." what.the/fuck

and "aluminium" as "aluminum"

and "nuclear" as "nookyoler"


arrgh.

Post: #5

(05-18-2013 07:43 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 07:37 AM)scotian Wrote:  Every time I hear an Anglo (usually American) pronounce the word niche as nitch it drives me bonkers, its pronounced as neesh fellas.

and clique as "click". OMFG. "Your click has really found it's nitch." what.the/fuck

and "aluminium" as "aluminum"

and "nuclear" as "nookyoler"


arrgh.

aluminum actually is the proper american english word for "aluminium"

Post: #6

Great write up minus the rage. Sometimes it's fun to add American stresses and diphthongs just to piss off uptight purists.

Also if you audience is mostly anglo it's usually better to be clear than accurate. If a sportscaster says "Del POE-trow" and is heard clearly but tries to pronounce "Del Potro" properly and people miss it then he's not doing his job.

Post: #7

(05-18-2013 08:12 AM)void Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 07:43 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 07:37 AM)scotian Wrote:  Every time I hear an Anglo (usually American) pronounce the word niche as nitch it drives me bonkers, its pronounced as neesh fellas.

and clique as "click". OMFG. "Your click has really found it's nitch." what.the/fuck

and "aluminium" as "aluminum"

and "nuclear" as "nookyoler"


arrgh.

aluminum actually is the proper american english word for "aluminium"

lol, that's even worse. Think about how it got to that: the whole english speaking world + scientific community called it aluminium as per it's latin roots. Americans just mis-pronounced it so much that they started writing it wrong too

Post: #8

(05-18-2013 07:37 AM)scotian Wrote:  Every time I hear an Anglo (usually American) pronounce the word niche as nitch it drives me bonkers, its pronounced as neesh fellas.

American pronounce niche as nitch.
Brits and Canadians say neesh

So what? The same word can be pronounced differently in different regions. Get over it.

I don't expect the Brits and Canadians to stop pronouncing "schedule" as SHEH-juhul

Post: #9

OP is obviously well versed in linguistics, judging from the vocab and terminology. Don't know if I agree with the intent of the post but I'm with it when it comes to trying to approximate accents in the languages I have some ability in (Korean, Japanese, Spanish).

That being said, I still think most natives are more impressed by a foreigner who is functionally proficient with a horrible accent than someone who only knows a few words but parrots it in a good accent. If I had to choose, it'd definitely be the former.

The head of East Asian Studies at my uni was a mid 50's American who had lexical command of a native Korean scholar, but his accent still sounded like the GI's on Hooker Hill spitting one liners at the working girls.

Post: #10

Why are you so angry?

Post: #11

Lol. Heavy Anglophone accents do bother me, but I wasn't actually angry when I wrote this post; I was just having fun with what I was writing.

I shouldn't have brought up that "pervasive R" issue with the Brits since it appeared that I was super vocal about it, which might have brought in that "niche" discussion.

At the end of the day, each dialects have their own characteristics, and I don't think anyone should subscribe to the thought that one accent is superior to another. The accent you have is shaped by your environment, so it's not like it's completely your choice how you talk. You become a victim of the human tendency of "clanning" if you hold such antagonistic sentiments. Walking a fine line, however, we can still have preferences.

This post wasn't talking about accents in the English language either. This post is about an Anglophone accent that is present when a foreign language is spoken.

Quote:That being said, I still think most natives are more impressed by a foreigner who is functionally proficient with a horrible accent than someone who only knows a few words but parrots it in a good accent. If I had to choose, it'd definitely be the former.

I mean, if you establish such a scenario, then the choice is obvious. However, in hearing language learners speak, I recognize a lot of patterns. One of the patterns is that the accent is heavily neglected. It is not that difficult to make significant improvements in your accent if you just isolate some key steps or "hacks" if you use what appears to be an annoyingly fashionable word. Anyone smell Paretto principle here? In my ideal world, it's not like the Anglophone accent is completely annihilated, but that its most pervasive aspects are reduced. I still have an accent when I speak foreign languages, but a lot of the non-standard aspects have been reduced with very little investment on my part after I isolate the culprits.

A "horrible accent" also potentially interferes with comprehension. Thus, it's not like a good command of vocabulary, grammar, and syntax is the only criterion for "functionally proficient"; pronunciation, intonation, and prosody play a role as well. There's an entire industry/market on Accent Reduction since this is a REAL need especially in the professional world.

Post: #12

Great post. For me, this is a safety issue. I'm in South America right now, and the last thing I need is for people to know I'm from the US.

Post: #13

Great write-up by the OP. On a macro level, I think it's a matter of humbling yourself, and being open to a new way of speaking. Sometimes, when I hear anglos speak a different language, it doesn't even seem like they're trying to pronounce things correctly. Like seriously, how hard is it to mimic sounds?

Post: #14

You're having a go at the way a brit pronounces english?

erm....

Post: #15

You could have had a really solid post there if it weren't for your delivery, which comes off as angry and arrogant. While I'm all for being critical of Americans' lack of culture and the fact that most Americans don't broaden their horizons as much as they should, this isn't the way you're going to get people to work on their accents.

There's nothing like total immersion. If people don't have a use for learning another language, they're simply not going to iron out the finer points of language like proper vowel pronunciation or the use of the subjunctive tense, shit like that. As much as I love listening to French, I know I'm never going to learn it at a conversational level when I can get by with 30 or so phrases.

English isn't a Romance language, even though there are many elements that we've borrowed, so it's not as easy to pick up French, Italian, or Spanish as it is for native Romance speakers to learn each others' language.

And as a matter of personal taste, I think Brits and Aussies sound like jackasses. Sorry fellas. My favorite accent of English is from an educated Southerner.

Post: #16

(08-17-2013 01:35 AM)buja Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 07:37 AM)scotian Wrote:  Every time I hear an Anglo (usually American) pronounce the word niche as nitch it drives me bonkers, its pronounced as neesh fellas.

American pronounce niche as nitch.
Brits and Canadians say neesh

So what? The same word can be pronounced differently in different regions. Get over it.

I don't expect the Brits and Canadians to stop pronouncing "schedule" as SHEH-juhul

I have heard both pronounciations from Americans

Post: #17

(08-18-2013 03:20 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  My favorite accent of English is from an educated Southerner.

I play it with lethal intent. Deployed against U.K/OZ girls wins. I use certain words to peek interest, like "niche", then they ask to hear others. Then I make them work for it. Works in Spanish too. "Por-kaaaaaaaa"? Chicks love it. Accents are part of who we are, and should be used to an advantage, not hidden.

Post: #18

I learned Spanish starting at age 20. At first I had an accent of course and people immediately knew I was American. But now when I speak Spanish, native Spanish speakers think Im Brazilian or Italian, which I take as a very positive sign. Occasionally people will think im actualy a native speaker

There are many techniques for accent reduction but my way has always just been child like copying of people around me. How do they pronounce it? How do they phrase it? Thats how I learned my accent and slang.

Americans have this funny arrogant idea that they know better how a language should sound than do its native speakers. They will argue about pronunciations that are different from how they "think" it should be. You have to lose this and internalize the fact that you know nothing and must learn everything. Being aware of sounds and how to accurately produce them hekps.

Funny story, I was with my monolingual friends and ran into a Brazilian guy. I started speaking portuguese with him in my sotaque mineiro. If you know Brazilian portuguese, its very nasally and has nasal sounds English doesnt.

It sounded weird to my monolingual friend and hes like "why did you talk like that?" and I say "Thats how portuguese sounds." and hes like "Yea i mean say the words but you dont have to pronounce it all like that."

This fucking idiot, who knows zero portuguese, is giving me instructions on how t speak portuguese. Classic obnoxious american

For instance

Post: #19

(08-18-2013 06:34 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  There are many techniques for accent reduction but my way has always just been child like copying of people around me. How do they pronounce it? How do they phrase it? Thats how I learned my accent and slang.

If I could only give one short sentence of advice to anyone who wants to improve their accent, it's this.

Imitation.

Okay, that's a word, but it's so simple, yet so many language learners don't do this. That's why people who go through Pimsleur or Michel Thomas tend to have above average pronunciation because there is no seeing the written word and allowing the speaker to pronounce words the way he wants. It's all just imitation drills after imitation drills. You know, like what babies do.

Post: #20

None of this would be an issue if everyone just had the courtesy to speak English