Post: #1

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/0...hoofinance

Once upon a time women seemed more eager than men to marry. Today such generalizations no longer apply.

Is it women’s preferences (the demand for husbands) or men’s preferences (the supply of husbands) that are driving the trend toward less marriage? It’s hard to tell, but some gender asymmetries are apparent. For instance, a recent poll of unmarried blacks of prime marrying age found that only 25 percent of women were seeking a long-term relationship compared with 43 percent of men.

Some people may dislike application of concepts like supply and demand to the search for potential lifetime partners. After all, we like to think of ourselves — and our partners — as unique individuals, not as substitutes or next-best choices.

But the concept of a marriage market offers some useful insights into the evolution of marriage as an institution. It also helps explain why markets don’t always generate efficient adjustments to new circumstances.

As a contractual commitment, marriage has a price. It offers both costs and benefits to potential partners. The contract involves commitments for financial support and family care on terms that can be completely egalitarian.

But the terms can also be more advantageous to men or to women. For example, Anglo-American law traditionally gave men greater rights than women in marriage, and some religious traditions today encourage wives, but not husbands, to promise obedience.

Economic prospects matter: not just the relative earnings of men and women but also their relative contributions of time and energy to domestic work and family care.

Women are willing to pay a higher price for marriage than men if they have few alternatives, as when their opportunities for economic independence are restricted. An increase in the supply of women who want to marry drives the price of marriage down for men.

In these circumstances, as the economist Shoshana Grossbard puts it, husbands can pay a low “quasi-wage” for domestic services.

If the supply of women who want to marry decreases, the terms of marriage move in favor of women. They are likely to receive a larger share of joint income and leisure time. Husbands become more likely to relinquish some decision-making power and do more housework and child care.

Marriage market dynamics mean that a bride’s bargaining power is partly determined by the number of other choices her groom has (and vice versa). The changing terms of marriage complicate the effects of women’s improved economic position. On the one hand, men should like the prospect of sharing income with a high-earning woman. On the other hand, they may find it difficult to adjust to a new social role.

Considerable research suggests that gender roles are, in fact, pretty sticky. In a recent article, Marianne Bertrand, Jessica Pan and Emir Kamenica offer evidence that wives often try to enact traditional gender roles in an apparent effort to reassure their husbands that they are not a threat. (The New York Times took note of their findings in an article and a commentary.)

These economists also contend that couples in which the wife earns more than the husband are less satisfied with their marriage and are more likely to divorce. But as the sociologist Philip Cohen points out, this assertion is based on data more than 20 years old and disregards a large body of sociological research.

Some attitudes have recently changed in the United States. According to a recent survey by the Pew Research Center, only about 28 percent of respondents this year agreed that “it was generally better for a marriage if a husband earns more than his wife,” compared with 40 percent in 1997.

Economic factors may shape the pace of attitudinal change. In a fascinating study of nonmarriage among women college graduates in Japan, Jisoo Hwang observes that men whose mothers were employed have less traditional attitudes than other men and were also more likely to marry. She hypothesizes that the relatively recent and abrupt increase in female employment in that country made it more difficult for men there to adjust.

Some evidence from the United States suggests that class and education also influence role flexibility. Affluent couples are more likely to marry than other Americans, perhaps because they don’t need to renegotiate gender roles; they can purchase substitutes for wives’ traditional domestic work in the form of restaurant meals, child care and cleaning services.

Higher education may give students more familiarity with normative change and more experience negotiating differences. In the Pew survey referred to above, adults with a college degree were only half as likely as those with only a high school diploma to say it is generally better for a marriage if a husband out-earns a wife.

The demand for long-term commitments seems to be steadily declining among both women and men. Philip Cohen persuasively asserts that we should stop bemoaning this change and adapt to a world in which fewer adults marry.

But it is also worth noting that inflexible rules and sticky gender roles impede adjustments that could help increase both the demand for and supply of potential spouses. The sociologist Kathleen Gerson develops this position in some detail in her book “The Unfinished Revolution.”

As same-sex couples have profoundly demonstrated, the demand for marriage is not based on some natural sexual division of labor, but on the desire to give personal commitments public recognition.

Men and women who get this point probably enjoy a distinct advantage in finding a partner, whether or not they are lucky enough to achieve long-run equilibrium with someone they love.

Post: #2

Quote:prime marrying age

And what age is that? Adolescence, youth, pre-wall or post-wall? The desire to marry strongly fluctuates with age (and desirability to men).

Post: #3

Quote:As same-sex couples have profoundly demonstrated, the demand for marriage is not based on some natural sexual division of labor, but on the desire to give personal commitments public recognition.

Yeah, instead of having sex-based divisions, they still have a dominate partner. I am sick of straight people idolizing homosexuality - it is absolutely nothing to do with equality.

Quote:She hypothesizes that the relatively recent and abrupt increase in female employment in that country made it more difficult for men there to adjust.

Why is it on men to adjust? Yeah, hypergamy just disappeared over night.

Quote:The demand for long-term commitments seems to be steadily declining among both women and men. Philip Cohen persuasively asserts that we should stop bemoaning this change and adapt to a world in which fewer adults marry.

We should also listen to dipshit academics. Don't argue against liberal decline - let it happen!!!

Post: #4

I am waiting for a study to conclude the following:

New Study Finds Declining Demand for American Women.

Post: #5

The article is just the usual drivel that can best be described as: #firstworldproblems.

It's not really that men are any more or less in demand as husbands. That demand is based on biology and is pretty much a constant. It's just that the social environment has given women unrealistic expectations regarding who they are able to hook as a husband; and their economic independence has allowed them to make believe that they can get someone better. Since they have no compelling economic reason to marry the delusion can be maintained for a much longer time than in the past. We speak about the consequences of this on this board all the time. Essentially: Go long cat food for personal profit.

Put differently: Women want (have a demand for) husbands at the same rate as any in the last couple of hundred years. It's just that they don't want the man they can get. They want a better man. While it has always been like this, some social changes make it possible for women to live much longer in delusion than before.

As a man don't bother feeling bitter towards these women. Not that I believe in karma as a religious concept, but "karma" is not kind to them in later life. I know quite a few women in their late 30's and early 40's who have played either the career game or the "cock carousal" game (or both) without hooking anyone long term. They do not fare well when the reality of the wall becomes apparent. They are as much as two decades too late to maximize their husband value at that point. All that remains is cats and a all consuming hatred and jealousy of younger women. It is quite sad and pathetic to observe.

Post: #6

(06-17-2013 08:47 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  As a man don't bother feeling bitter towards these women. Not that I believe in karma as a religious concept, but "karma" is not kind to them in later life. I know quite a few women in their late 30's and early 40's who have played either the career game or the "cock carousal" game (or both) without hooking anyone long term. They do not fare well when the reality of the wall becomes apparent. They are as much as two decades too late to maximize their husband value at that point. All that remains is cats and a all consuming hatred and jealousy of younger women. It is quite sad and pathetic to observe.

^Too true.

I expect to see legions of cougars, cat ladies, and spinsters in the future crying about "Where have all the good men gone?"

Regardless, I think the declining importance of marriage does at least pose some benefits for a player who doesn't take this shit too seriously since there are plenty of sluts out there who want to ride the cock carousel.

Post: #7

I don't feel bad for women. We'll so how much grrl power helps them when they die alone in their condos.

Today's woman doesn't bring enough to the table and thus just isn't quality enough to get a man to want to commit to a lifelong relationship and start a family with them.

So at this point, why water your mouth for food you can't eat?

Post: #8

I fully support women not marrying. That way we are both on the same page.

Post: #9

(06-17-2013 08:19 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote:prime marrying age

And what age is that? Adolescence, youth, pre-wall or post-wall? The desire to marry strongly fluctuates with age (and desirability to men).

If women were smart they'd marry at the their peak attractiveness because they have a choice of which man they want. I think have forgotten this vital fact.

The penis wants what it wants. What it doesn't want is some dried up old leather pussy attached to a bitter old cunt.

Post: #10

Hmm, this is strange. The majority of the women that i've met, hooked up with, and dated all wanted to hubby me all really fast and i'm young.

Career women are even worse. I don't want to get married and they all do!

Maybe it's just my type.

Post: #11

(06-17-2013 02:10 PM)frenchie Wrote:  Hmm, this is strange. The majority of the women that i've met, hooked up with, and dated all wanted to hubby me all really fast and i'm young.

Career women are even worse. I don't want to get married and they all do!

Maybe it's just my type.

If they are older women then they are finally sensing that they must act now. If younger, maybe a bit smarter than the average girl.

May also mean you could be doing a bit better. Open girls slightly hotter than the ones you typically get. My prediction is you'll have some success and they will not be as keen to marry you.

Post: #12

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/201...athers-for


Who the fuck debates the need for fathers? Obviously none of these folks are honest enough to admit cultural marxism have already destroyed the black community is en route to destroy the white community. I guess their dream world consists of a brown bastard underclass ruled by rich white families who are essentially pagans (enviornmentalists).

Enjoy the decline, cuz these folks think they're making progress!

Post: #13

lies.

Post: #14

Remember that many, maybe even most, women would take 5 minutes of "quality time" with an alpha over a lifelong storybook marriage with a beta.

With the welfare state they have no need of men for money.

With social media they have no need of men for companionship. See Roosh's article called Patricia's Smartphone.

With affluence the definition of alpha rises each day. Affluence also makes it harder to fake being an alpha. See the lifestyle section threads on fashion. More guys are more sophisticated in fashion now. The Vikings weren't, the Mongols weren't, the pioneers weren't, and neither was GI Joe.

Regular guys who wear regular clothes today had better be really hot or cute or they die virgins.

Look at all the subcultures. Hipster, Juggalo, Mullethead, Metalhead, Biker, Wannabe Cowboy, Wannabe Gangsta. All attempts to create subcultures where the men can get closer to the top of a hierarchy and the women can get a man closer to the top of a hierarchy.

What about working hard, paying taxes, contributing to a civilization? Does the guy no good. Being a good father? Fuck you. Kind and nurturing but tough when you need to be? Shove it.

These women want alpha and that's all they want.

Post: #15

They're all around my age, roughly 22-25. I would definitely classify them as smarter than average. All have degrees and some advanced. They all fit the stereotypical INTJ or INFJ MBTI stereotypes though (google if you don't know).

Maybe intelligence makes women look for intellectual soul mates? I don't know.

I'm waiting until 30. Afterwards it's fair game.

Post: #16

Main reasons why Demand for Husbands is down:

They choose to not marry young because they want to find the best possible suitor.

They spend most of they early blossom days, 18-26, going to clubs, bars, online dating etc.

By the time they hit their 30's they soon realize that they are already over the wall.

The media of today has brainwashed women into thinking that it is OK to be overweight, old and a feminist.

I have conducted studies that shows that; most of US commercials are targeted to fat people.

We have become a nation full of feminist supporters.

Times have changed for original Alpha males in this country forever.

This war is long lost.

The women of today will raise the men of tomorrow.

That means it will only get worse before it gets better.

Our generations are like a chemical dilution. Each time a new generation is mixed with the previous one, an important trait from the previous generation disappears more and more.

One day being alpha will be as rare as being a knight.

I am a firm believer there won't be tolerance for alpha behavior in the future.

Things that used to be considered Alpha like slapping a girl for being disrespectful are frown upon. Also;

Having multiple women before marriage.

Going off overseas while leaving your wife and children at home.

Let's just be thankful that we are able to enjoy some type of Aplha events while they still exist.

Everyday that goes by more and more betas arise.

There isn't a declined for husbands. There is a declined for beta husbands.

Last time I check most of the Alphas on this forum don't want kids.

What are we going to leave the world with, once we all parish?

Post: #17

Real men like real Alpha and solid Beta provider are being provided with very very bad incentives now. What happens to a civilization when it's comprised of damaged narcissists raised by single mommies?

The narcissist doesn't seek to do good, they just want supply.

Leading narcissists is rough because when they screw up and you say something they either go to pieces, hate you/strike back in some way, or they like the fact that they caused a reaction in you and they want that attention (supply) any way they can get it.

There's only room for a few narcissists at the top as charismatic leaders and a few that can be manipulated into dedicating their lives to a cause. A society needs lots of good average hardworking law abiders.

Problem is single mommy and faux alpha with his barb wired tattooed biceps can't raise a good person, they can only raise a screw up or a narcissist.

Civilization is fucked.

Post: #18

What I wish would happen:
Seeing the decline and fall of western civilization is inevitable the only option is that the alpha/red pill men leave before our numbers are too small. The redpill men of the western world should just move to some lawless land in Africa and join some African tribe where they still hunt with spears and what not. Then after we alliance with some tribe we try to get financial backing from some anti-western nation like Russia and china and use modern tech to kill enemy tribes. After we become the alpha tribe we keep expanding and then have some sort of military coup to throw out the corrupt rulers bought by western money. Then we will have a legit red pill nation.

Post: #19

We men have to fight against are all forms of welfare and distribution of wealth from men to women.

Just imagine if we lived in a communist country. No, I don't mean the USSR where I grew up, btw, I mean the kind of communism that was promised to the people of the USSR as the end point: basically, from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs. This means, for example, that a single man who works his ass off gets everything taken away from him distributed "fairly" to young sluts with bastard children among others. Then that poor guy lives in a small dorm room and the slut with 3 bastard kids gets a fucking house even though she has never worked and never will. Strangely, I have never seen anything like this in the USSR: it fell apart before becoming really communist. However, when I lived in Europe I saw more communism there than I saw in the USSR in the old days. I saw sluts living in better and bigger apartments/houses than many honest taxpayers.

How does this relate to declining demand for husbands, you might ask? Well, if a cunt can get everything paid for, she will keep shitting out bastards and having string of relationships with random guys. She doesn't need us men except for occasional fucking and conceiving more illegitimate children, because she gets our money regardless.

This is the main reason why I am not only anti-communist, I am libertarian. For many people, anti-communism is just a way of being anti-Russian or anti-East Bloc. I actually know what real communism is like and, based on my experience living and traveling in different parts of the world, I believe that free market is better for us men.

Post: #20

US Census Bureau reports that median age for women at first marriage varies from 23.3 in Utah to 30.1 in DC, and was about 26.9 nationally, for the period (2011ACS data). This compares to a national average of 22 in 1980 (birthdate for a 33 year old). What the median age of marriage to you is that half of the women get married by that age, and are for practical purposes off the market. And most of the 7+ go off the market first.

True, a lot of demand for husbands that has disappeared, given that there are now about 10 million females in that 22-27 age group (US Census data again).

But a lot more female demand for non-relationship sex has been generated here. And 7+ spend longer roaming in the wild. So, who's complaining?

Post: #21

Demand curve shift to the left shift for husbands right demand curve shift for guys like me. Economics at work, son.

Post: #22

"One day being alpha will be as rare as being a knight.

I am a firm believer there won't be tolerance for alpha behavior in the future."

In the future??? what about right now ? -being a real man is just about damn near illegal...

You are right on the money !

Post: #23

By definition the top 10% of men with regards to height, build, looks, and DT are alpha (to women).

The Adria Richards case herbs would be alpha if the rest of the world were bad enough.

Problem is, real genuine alphaness, as defined by men is being destroyed too.

Some real alphas at the top, beta providers as the rock of society. That works.

Now we're getting weaker alpha, omega, and betas morphing into faux alpha. The real alpha and the beta provider are being destroyed and civilization with them.

Post: #24

Instead of "The Declining Deman for Husband" how about a statistic of "The Declining Need to get Married by Alpha males"

It's hard to settle down in a place like the US. If you cheat on your wife and she finds out your basically finished.

If you cheat in a country where your wife needs you for her own survival, she will be more receptive to "sweeping it under the rug".

Post: #25

(06-17-2013 02:10 PM)frenchie Wrote:  Hmm, this is strange. The majority of the women that i've met, hooked up with, and dated all wanted to hubby me all really fast and i'm young.

Career women are even worse. I don't want to get married and they all do!

Maybe it's just my type.

Age, height, looks please?