Post: #1

So I may be coming into a role where I'll be working equal time rotation (28 days on day 28 days off) and one of the positives is that I can literally live anywhere in the world. While I love travelling, I'm getting a bit tired of living out of 2 bags, or a car when I'm lucky, and not having a home base.

Optimistically planning ahead, I'm curious about some of the other people here who have setup long term abroad in places like Asia. Not like for 6-12 months, but thinking 5 years+ (AmericanInBangkok?). I'm thinking potentially of getting a place in Bali, the other option would be to be boring and just set up in Canada or Australia.

So for those who've lived abroad, how did you manage? First off just having close friends or relationships with people? Until you get basically fluent with the language which is a multi year process, it's almost impossible to have real conversations with people, so what do you do for friends? There are expats, but again, aside from the fact that you're both foreigners in a foreign country, you may not have much in common.

From reading lots of trip reports, It seems the longer people stay in SE Asia, the more trivial annoyances seem to get to them. Hopefully this doesn't come off as too racist or condescending, but the education here is bad, and dealing with people who aren't even grade 9 educated can be incredibly frustrating. It's literally like dealing with children. I'm often telling people my dad's age we need to shut the door to the house to keep in the cold air, and keep out the mosquitoes, or that if you just leave a tap running and walk away, we'll eventually run out of water since we're on a well. Basic thought processes like that are beyond many people. As many other people have mentioned too, the women aren't much better. Basic English, very inwardly focused, not super aware of what's going on in the world or having any interest to travel. Good enough to stick your dick into, but for actually hanging out with and talking with not so much.

I make satirical jokes which completely go over these people's heads, and something as simple as moving my self into check when playing chess is so funny that people are literally falling out of their chairs, so I find it impossible to relate.

The other issue is that no matter how long you are abroad, no matter how well you learn the language, you'll always be a foreigner. I speak passable Indonesian now, but in the tourist areas, even speaking Indonesian and telling people what certain things should cost, some people refuse to budge from tourist pricing.

So is it possible to truly integrate into Asian society? Or is all you can do is just stay in gated communities hanging out with other expats.

Post: #2

There is definitely an intellectual vacuum here -- that's what happens when you slaughter all the schoolteachers, professors, writers etc. in a communist purge. I've been able to meet a *few* smart people on college campuses; maybe you could find interesting activities there.
Agreed that the average Indonesian's idea of humor is pretty limited. I can't bear to watch their comedy sketch shows, since they don't go any deeper than personal insults, laughing at transvestites and midgets, and shitty wordplay. I read an article where the former writers for these shows (which no longer have scripts) complained how dumbed-down they've become.
I feel your ennui. Sometimes it seems as though, besides seeking cultural/linguistic/historical knowledge, enjoying a unique "race" of women, or finding natural vistas, there's not much reason to be here unless one is helping to extract natural resources for multinational corporations. But that's life.

Post: #3

Don't forget the "funny" noises to let then know it's funny. "Bonk!" "Awwwooogah"

In general people in SEA are stupid. Lets be honest. The dumbest being in Thailand.

When THC and I were in Indo, he ordered an iced coffee black. The guy behind the counter said sorry, they pre make the ice coffee and they were all out. I stood there in awe as THC asked

"do you have black coffee?"

Yes

"Do you have ice?"

Yes

THC makes the motion of dumping one over the other.

I'm not kidding the guys eyes lit up and he ran to do it excitedly.



I will say that the Filipinos actually are very smart, get all sorts of humor and are intellectually curious. Their shows still suck though.

Post: #4

Haha, I forgot about those shows. The people I work with just love them. I saw the exact same thing when I was living on the Mexican border. My friend and I took busses down the entire length of Vietnam, and they were just blaring these stupid shows at maximum volume the entire trip, through the night. Was ready to kill myself. Maybe it has to do with the level of education and ability to deconstruct and reconstruct things to determine if why they're 'funny'. I remember one time we were going to a picnic and the subject of food came up, I jokingly said "Oh, I hope they have rice" because they eat rice 20 times a week here. Someone explains to me,"'yes, they should. That actually rice is very popular in Indonesia". Thanks.

I was at the airport one time, and two guys walked on the plane together next to each other. One of my guys thought this was hilarious "Gay-style!, is that what you call it in English? Gay-style! Bha-hahaha" Why are they gay? Maybe they just work together or are friends. It's just two dudes walking side by side.

Some of the university educated people I work with are perfectly decent people. Good enough English to have a real conversation with, and if I was in the same city as them years down the road, I would look them up. The majority however no.

Fisto that is exactly the kind of stuff I deal with on a daily basis. I tell people I work in Indo, and they think it's so amazing, they're surprised I generally leave the first chance I get.

Anyways getting off topic, does it makes sense to actually live in places like this, or does the constant female company, good beaches, and cheap stuff not make up for the lack of close relationships, numerous minor annoyances, and lack of integration into real society?

Post: #5

Given your social requirements, I'd say you'd fit in Makati pretty well. Makati is the business center of Metro Manila. The Ortigas area, a few miles away, is another choice there. Educated females, with near-western outlooks (they think themselves "full-western" but it's not true). English is the principal language. Lots of condos, restaurants, etc. that are ok for an ex-pat. I lived in Makati for several years, when I had a 50% travel job, too. Most girls I dated had at least a B.A. Tagalog, which you'll learn for fun, has a lot of cross-over with Bahasa. Downside: almost all the girls still live with their families. A lot of the bad stuff you hear comes from guys without developing world experience. With living in Indonesia behind you, you should know by now how to ignore a lot on the way to getting what you want.

One place I rarely hear about, but works well is Narita City. Lots of flight crew, but many other airline-related staff, from all over, and many on 3-year or less assignments -- so they are living the independent transient life, too, as you. Lots of English all over. Learning enough Japanese to be polite isn't hard. Classes will be a great place to meet other ex-pats with same career/life issues. An American pal established his E&P consulting firm there, and has had a great eight years. I've stayed with flight crew there a couple times, but don't really have enough experience to offer more than the comments of others.

Bangkok is a possibility, but has drawbacks in the areas you mention. But with a month in, a month out, you can become pretty much known as a local in the social environment with the features you want. I did Bangkok for a year or so, working in Thailand and Cambodia. Language was problematic for me, but may not be for others who grasp tonal languages quicker. There's a fair number of western males with good incomes that are happy and doing well there, with access to the kind of girls and general social environment you mention. Some of the Thai girls I dated had masters degrees from U.S. universities (engineering, economics -- so they weren't dummies). Cultural congruency is a bigger problem than in Makati, but there definitely seems to be a higher frequency of condo ownership among educated females in Bangkok than Manila, so there is nominally some greater independence from families. A lot of the downside you hear about Bangkok comes from those without the incomes to stay in play in the higher end of the environment. Also, the date-able educated females are a little older, in my experience, than in Manila -- at least those that are English-fluent and interested in foreigners. (In Manila, the bottom end of my range of educated females was age 20-21, in Bangkok, about age 24-25)

Hong Kong never worked for me, so can't report on that. See comments of others.

Like Jakarta, getting around in all these places becomes a lifestyle problem right from the very beginning. When you check out a city, also check out the automobile costs and personal licensing issues, as well as safety and traffic issues. Makes a big difference. In Bangkok, I relied on a company car and driver (paying out of my own pocket for his overtime driving me around recreationally); in Manila I owned and drove my own car, only sometimes hiring a driver. The geographical concentration of your social recreation sites determines if you'll be parking once (or not at all) or will be driving several times in an evening to get to venues and then home.

Hope that helps.

Post: #6

Openbar, Where did you stay in Makati? Thoughts on Rockwell?

Post: #7

(06-28-2013 09:30 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I will say that the Filipinos actually are very smart, get all sorts of humor and are intellectually curious. Their shows still suck though.

I am looking forward to a Philippines trip after I save more money.

I had a upper-middle class Filipina for a girlfriend when I was in graduate school. Most loyal ever girl ever. Never weaseled money, looked at another guy, lent me money without question when I needed it ( I always paid her back. )
Best of all, she thought it was funny when I flirted with younger chicks, she seemed to think it was natural and was more into the close relationship we had.
When she KNEW I was getting ready to fuck one she'd panic, but if I was more discreet I could have kept it under control.

She was funny too. I had a little honda MC, and she called it my "Hardly Davidson." Still miss her.

When I'd get manic and start babbling nonsensical humor as I am wont to do, she would shake her head and say in mock seriousness,
"I am now convinced there is really something wrong with you."

I'm a fan; but relatively few are highly attractive sexually.

The big differentiator for me, especially from Murkabeests, is the loyalty. Who wants a girl who'll ditch you for some absolutely vague abstract bullshit. "I don't feeeeeeeel respected...". I know, I know, all women are sluts etc. But no matter what anyone says, I was a lot happier when I had that girl.

Post: #8

Even though I started out negatively on the place, I have come around to the idea that the Philippines and even Metro Manila would be the place to stay, for the reasons stated above by Fisto and Openbar.

You can makes subtle jokes here and people will get it. There are also things like four daily English language newspapers which give you a window on politics and culture. Because of years of cohabitation with western culture, the emotional lives of Filipinos are very close to those of Americans and Europeans.

I am finding out more and more Spanish loan words in Tagalog, so I don't even think learning the local language would be that hard.

I have even cracked the food question to some extent, finding some local restaurants which serve healthy food, and if all else fails, Mang Inasal and Chow King.

You can't escape the real estate flyers here, you can get a decent 2 br condo here for $100,000 - actually less, with the cash discount.

Post: #9

Seadog,
Great point that unless one can speak the local lingo fluently, one cannot really converse or have a meaningful converstaion/relationship and friendship with the locals. I know you're asking about Asia, but let me offer you another great if not outright fabulous alternative, Brasil.

As much as I love Asia, it's fun, it's wild, it's cheap and it's got that everything goes kind of wild wild east feel to it, I wouldn't live there long term since the local languages are too difficult to learn. And even if one were to make the necessary sacrifices to learn one of the languages, you'd still be considered an outsider and would never integrate into the local community. You'd be always regarded as the farang/foreigner and be used by leeches all around you. For me, the ideal place to semi settle or at least, make my base would be where I can speak the local language, communicate and connect deeply with the locals. And that would be somewhere in Latin America and mainly Brasil. I speak the lingo fluently, know the culture, love the culture and have plenty of local friends all over the country.

What I'd suggest is make some trips there, invest the time to learn the language, which to be honest, won't be as hard or long as any of the Asian languages. And the ROI will be tremendous as Brasil is by far, the country that comes closest to the complete and total package. It has tremendous resources and thus, business opportunities, specially for someone like you working in the energy sector. Even in other sectors, it's booming like crazy! The culture is simply fascinating, the music is the best in the world, the joie de vivre is unrivaled around the world, the girls are the most passionate and coolest and among the hottest in the world, specially once you get to speak the language fluently, have a decent local social circle and get outside of the touristy places away from Rio and SP. Lifestyle is fabulous specially if you're not a broke backpacker. Provided you have a decent bankroll, I don't see any country who can provide you with the same lifestyle in a more beautiful setting and social fabric than Brasil.

Another thing I didn't like about Thailand/Phils is that over there, people are lacking in the intellectual curiosity area. They don't care or aren't able to talk about anything intellectual for the most part. It's hard to find people there, who are not foreigners, to stimulate your mind and brain. In Latin America and Brasil, it's a different culture, different approach, people are very curious about you, about things in life, and you can have stimulating conversations with people there, even the girls are quite brainy there yet still feminine (if you look in the right place that is). Add to that, this typical Brasilian thirst for life, for truly living it up and enjoying every waking moment, then it makes it for a truly incredible experience, every day there.

Asia is good for when you're broke or are just starting and want to bootstrap your expenses until you start to make some decent profits. Once you reach a monthly budget of say over 5K/month, then Brasil is simply unbeatable. And if you're from Canada, it's in the same timezone or almost (only 1-3 hours difference depending on the season and where in Canada you're from) so that makes it another great perk for if you want to keep in touch with family and or have business to run and contact your clients within the same time frame as them. Which is quite a challenge if not impossible from Asia due to the the average 12 hour time difference.

All in all, if you want to make a long term investment of not only money but also your most valuable asset, your time, then I'd strongly recommend Brasil. Lifestyle wise, nothing comes even close to Brasil specially if you have more than a couple nickels to rub together. Asia, while awesomely fun, doesn't have the same vibe than Brasil. Plus, in Brasil, you'd be hard pressed not to make any real, meaningful, life long friendships with the locals specially once you live there. In the 5+ months that I lived in BKK, I didn't make one real local friend. Conversely, during my travels to Brasil, I've made more life long friends than almost 2 decades living in Canada.

Don't get me wrong: I had a total blast in Asia and love to death Asia and I can't wait to return there. However, my heart, mind and soul are in Brasil and this is where I will be making my long term base as soon as I get things under control here. I'd strongly recommend you to make a trip or two or five there first. Let me warn you tough: once you get a taste of Brasil, of how geniunely warm, friendly and passionate the people there, and I'm not even bringing the beautiful and uber passionate girls into the equation here, then you will be hooked for life.

I've been around the world with the exception of Australia and Oceania, lived in various countries on 3 continents, but the one country that truly captured my heart like no other one, has been Brasil. As a matter of fact, my heart has never left Brasil since my first time there in 2005. And let warn you once more: Brasil is definitely a very dangerous country in that it stole and captured my heart like no other country. And it will do the same to you as well once you go there. And even more so if you learn the language, then it will be an experience like no other.

Post: #10

Damn you VP now I want to move there.

Post: #11

(06-29-2013 03:10 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Seedog,
Great point that unless one can speak the local lingo fluently, one cannot really converse or have a meaningful converstaion/relationship and friendship with the locals. I know you're asking about Asia, but let me offer you another great if not outright fabulous alternative, Brasil.

Great post, VP.

Quote:Another thing I didn't like about Thailand/Phils is that over there, people are lacking in the intellectual curiosity area. They don't care or aren't able to talk about anything intellectual for the most part. It's hard to find people there, who are not foreigners, to stimulate your mind and brain.

When you're in groups of Thai friends and you do find someone that is actually conversating in the group, people will continually interrupt your conversation to tell you "don't talk too much" or "shut up." They mean it in a joking way, but it comes from a real cultural paradigm too. Intellectual discourse is actually discouraged here.

It can be annoying but you learn to only get into more thorough conversations in one-on-one situations and just focus on fun banter in the groups.

Quote:In the 5+ months that I lived in BKK, I didn't make one real local friend.

I guess I'm just the odd man out in this department still. Everywhere I go end up meeting locals and am taken to their homes, etc. They wrack their brains, trying to think of a good girl to match you up with so you stick around and settle in for the long run.

I just say don't worry I've got this one man. lol

I'll admit it's difficult, and sometimes you really have to open up your mind and/or give it some time to be accepted, but once people drop their barriers they are extremely generous and kind. I hardly go out at all at the moment and have been pretty broke, but I've still met two new groups of Thais that have taken me under their wing in the last month alone. They barely let me pay for beer when we're sitting around drinking suds too, so it's not like they want me to hang so I can foot the bill.

One invited me over to his place and filled my cup all night - his old lady cooked me a feast even though they'd already eaten before I got there, and then they worried incessantly about me driving home even though I was in control of all the faculties. He wanted to follow me halfway in his truck to make sure I was okay. Shit he was the one that was tipsy but they really worry about their guests.

I met another guy on the boat who was traveling to samui with his gik, and he gave me a buddhist amulet and ended up getting a room in my apartment building for a few days - invited me to come visit in Phitsanalook.

Of course these are just aqaintences at this point. All the boys up north though, the ones I know well enough to consider actual friends, are giving me a ton of shit for having been here 3 months and not coming up to visit. I haven't seen any of them in nearly 2 years now and not a bit of love lost. Hopefully within the next week or two on my way to Laos (have three weeks to get up there).

You really just have to get out there in Thailand and get on their level. It can be hard to do if your caught up in chasing floozies though because it takes being out of your own head for a bit to get to know these guys. Sometimes in Thailand we get wrapped up in our new status so much that we come across the wrong way - at least that's the impression I get of a lot of farangs I see around.

Brazil sounds dope though. Someday.

Post: #12

Fisto,
Why don't you make Brasil your next destination? It may very well trump anything you've seen or experienced so far. Granted, you may not get the same quantity than you've been doing in Asia or in the DR, but the talent, there will be in a different dimension altogether. One advice tough: stay away from Rio and SP and choose a 2nd tier city. And before you go, learn as much Portuguese as you can. And if you already speak and or understand Spanish, then your work is cut in half almost.

Brasil is not or rather, no longer for the following types of people:
- cheap, low budget
- doesn't speak the lingo
- short time there (1-2 weeker)

However, if you have time, money and can speak the lingo, then it will be easy for you to build a local social circle and get access to the type of girls that you'd be drooling over, or as they call them in Brasil, filet mignon. One might say that with money and time you can get quality girls anywhere in the world. True, however, there's something truly special about Brasil and the girls there. If you want a feisty, passionate girl who will be a tigress in bed and a feminine and classy woman outside the bedroom, then Brasileiras are among the best in the world in that.

And the vibe there is second to none. Did I mention the partying? It's off the chart! Brasilians are the champions of the universe in that regard! And they have tons of world class parties like events throughout the year with Carnaval being the epitome of it all.

The food is varied, rich and delicious and healthy. The beef is among the very best in the world. The drinks are among the very best in the world. The tropical juices are simply unbeatable as there a ton of fruits there that are only native of Brasil and have no names in any other languages than Portuguese!

Plus, a fighter like you will feel like at home there as it has a very rich tradition of fighting sports. Vale Tudo is what actually inspired this whole UFC trend to get started and commercialised in NA. It's an outdoorsy and active person's paradise as Brasil is one giant playground, figuratively and literally speaking. It's among the top spots for water sports, like surfing, kite surfing, wind surfing. Capoeira can also be fun for you, or get into futebol if you're brave. I got my ass schooled there by 9 year old kids and I played up to almost under 15 nationals level as a kid in France. I'm still feeling the pain of that to this day. lol

Post: #13

VP has a good point - take a more global outlook, and live in the place that fits you, while you've got this ability and job.

When I switched from a "3-week out, 3-week in" schedule to something more like a "2 months out, 2 months in" routine. I moved "home base" back to the States. Your schedule will fall somewhere in-between.

The type of work that I did, and the length of intended time abroad (always changing in location), meant that I had to allow time before the beginning of each "out" period to set up, acquire materials, etc., and then to undo it all, maybe prepare reports, etc., upon return. When I looked at this in context, the setup and breakdown time really was "travel time" -- I had to totally disengage socially from the "home" or "in" environment to get it all done. Comparing the actual airline time to the total time that I spent disengaged from "home", I found that raw "time to conquer distance to/from job site" was not the major element of "total travel time". (This is something like comparing time aloft to "chock-to-chock" time for a flight -- you are stuck in the airplane with the doors closed in both cases, but runway delays only go into the second number.) So, with distance from home to job site not being a determining factor, my decision was to move back to the States, but the choice just as well could have been Brazil; for me, there were advantages, business-wise, to a Stateside base at that time.

Post: #14

(06-28-2013 11:23 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Openbar, Where did you stay in Makati? Thoughts on Rockwell?

I lived in the center of things, in Salcedo Village, which, for others who don't know the geography, put me within a sort of triangle outlined by three major business streets, thus in the shadows of the big banking and commercial buildings of downtown Makati. Day game and happy hour game with office girls became a lifestyle.

Somewhat older than the new developments, the condo was big - claimed as 250 sq m (that's over 2500 sq ft), but I think that overstates it quite a bit, undoubtedly includes some portion of common area. Three bedroom, 3.5 bath plus maid's room/bath, and only two units per floor. Definitely luxury, in terms of space and co-residents, for the area. No pool, though, and its age was showing somewhat.

Since it wasn't a gated village, and security was only at the building level, girls could come over on their own or be brought home easily and comfortably. Because they still retained the transportation access and local building sights they knew well in their regular routine, they felt safe, not isolated. When I lived in Forbes Park (for others here: this is a traditional high-end gated community in the same area), girls were impressed by the celebrity neighborhood, but often were too timid to just come over on their own, due to the security and what they felt was isolation -- and gate security added too much formality to the encounter.

Post: #15

If you want a holistic view of the fuckedupness of Indonesia, I can't recommend highly enough "Indonesia: Archipelago of Fear" by Vltchek. Somehow it is available at Plaza Senayan.

Post: #16

OP, I have lived in HK and Hanoi both for 1 year each and have explored about half of SEAsia. I'm about to move to Singapore for a 2-year contract. But what you wrote in your original post has me second-guessing devoting myself out there. Shoot me a PM if you're still set on it, about how integrate well into the society, because compared to every other expat I've spent time with in Asia the locals see me as one of their own.

But maybe it was all fake? Education, language, etc bits are all true..
.

Post: #17

(06-28-2013 08:06 PM)Seadog Wrote:  So I may be coming into a role where I'll be working equal time rotation (28 days on day 28 days off) and one of the positives is that I can literally live anywhere in the world. While I love travelling, I'm getting a bit tired of living out of 2 bags, or a car when I'm lucky, and not having a home base.

Seadog I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are right now, I just came back from seven months in Asia and got right back to work in the oil biz. I'm also getting really sick of living out of suitcases, traveling to new places and being homeless, I just can't make up my mind as to what my next move may be. I have plenty of options as I've been offered a 3 week on/3 week off gig so I could set up shop somewhere abroad and go there on my days off, or I could set up somewhere in Canada such as Montreal. We'll see what happens, for now I"m just focusing on work and saving money, but I think I may just work the rest of this year as much as I can and take a few months off next winter.

I was also in your position a couple of years ago when I decided to take the winters off for a couple of years to travel and scope out some places that I could see myself settling in on a long term basis, I ended up staying in the following places: Jamaica (six weeks), Colombia (four months), Thailand (four months) and the Philippines (three months). I'll break down my thoughts on each place for you, hopefully my experiences can shed some light onto this for you.

Jamaica:
Great place to chill for a couple of weeks, party, drink some rum, smoke some weed but I don't think I could settle there, I'll definitely return though as I love that place as a short trip destination.

Colombia: I liked Colombia the best out of all places, the women, temperate climate (tropical heat is too much for me), reasonably cheap and easy to travel around. The biggest factor in Colombia was that I picked up the language fairly quickly and will continue to improve, this is a tangible goal that is reachable for most guys, the same can't really be said for an Asian language such as Thai. The only real downside of Colombia is the violence and danger factor although these risks can me mitigated by using common sense, its not like Thailand where you can stumble around BKK or a beach town hammered drunk at 4 am and still get home in one piece.

Thailand: I really liked Thailand and had a blast there, there's so much to do and see and its relatively cheap although I think prices will continue to increase. There's also tons of foreigners there, so being a farang is nothing special. The downside for me was that I don't have the patience to learn Thai and as such Thailand is the place where I would have the greatest difficulty in getting to know the local culture and build up a social circle. That being said, there's tons of expats to hang out with there.

Philippines: I liked the Philippines in a lot of ways, I liked dating Filipinas a lot more than Thai women because they spoke English so well and their culture was less foreign to me as a North American. The downside was that the Philippines isn't so well organized for a foreign tourist, I ran into several headaches and meltdowns during my time there. It is also quite poor, probably the poorest country I've ever been although one can get away from that by staying in the upper class areas of Manila.

So those are my general thoughts on each place, since I've decided that I'll likely remain in Canada over the next several years and work seasonally in the oil patch, I think Colombia will be my go to place and am thinking of heading back there next winter for a few months. I'm sick of traveling and being among new cultures, languages, customs, food, etc, I've had my fill and know what I like and that's why I'll head back there.

(06-28-2013 09:54 PM)Seadog Wrote:  Anyways getting off topic, does it makes sense to actually live in places like this, or does the constant female company, good beaches, and cheap stuff not make up for the lack of close relationships, numerous minor annoyances, and lack of integration into real society?

For me, that applies mostly to Thailand and likely other SE Asian countries such as Indo or Vietnam, etc. Its less of a problem in the Philippines because there's no language barrier and Filipinos are really into us North Americans, almost every Filipino has family in Canada, they're less insular than the Thais. In Colombia, as long as you're willing to put into the effort to learn Spanish (which is very rewarding), you'll meet people and develop a social circle.

Some other considerations I had when ranking the places I stayed in:

Travel Time: SE Asia is pretty far and the jet lag can be brutal, it took me 27 hours to fly from BKK to Edmonton, I can fly from Edmonton to Bogota in about 10-12 hours (direct flights from Toronto).

Foreign property ownership: I'm thinking about buying something in the next three to five years, in all countries I visited, a nice two bedroom condo or small house can be bought for $100,000-150K. The problem with Thailand and the Philippines is that a foreigner can only buy condos, not land, unless he marries a local. I don't think those rules apply in Colombia, as far as I know.

Having a family: One thing I'm planning on doing is settling down with a girl and having some youngsters in the next few years, a good reason to get the fuck outta Canada on my months off. Lots of guys do this in all of the countries I visited and it seems entirely feasible for guys in our situations. I'm not sure if I'd bring a foreign woman back to Canada to live but if so, the Filipinas would be the best to bring to Canada as there's tons of them already here (#1 immigrant in Canada the past few years). I know some guys who brought Thai wives back and they seem happy, although I think it would be difficult for a Thai to live somewhere like Edmonton, haha.

Things to do: Thailand wins hands down especially since there's so many healthy, active things to do (kayaking, rock climbing, Muay Thai, diving, etc). Similar activities are available in Colombia and the Philippines, but far less prevalent and not as highly organized.

Anyway, hope this helps. Congrats on the new job offer, you're definitely in a good position, especially for the player lifestyle. As far as settling down, I'm not so sure if the lifestyle is so conducive to having a happy family (missing out on half your kids life) but lots of guys do it, I'm still on the fence as to whether or not it could be a life for me, we'll see.

Post: #18

(06-28-2013 08:06 PM)Seadog Wrote:  So I may be coming into a role where I'll be working equal time rotation (28 days on day 28 days off) and one of the positives is that I can literally live anywhere in the world. While I love travelling, I'm getting a bit tired of living out of 2 bags, or a car when I'm lucky, and not having a home base.

Curious. What kind of a role/ job gives you this 28/28 thingy? Inbox if you do not wish to make it public.

Post: #19

Quote:I'm curious about some of the other people here who have setup long term abroad in places like Asia. Not like for 6-12 months, but thinking 5 years+ (AmericanInBangkok?). I'm thinking potentially of getting a place in Bali, the other option would be to be boring and just set up in Canada or Australia.

Blasphemy - don't even consider moving to Canada or Australia part-time. Also, if you're considering Indonesia, get out of Bali! Stay on the outskirts or one of the smaller cities.

Quote:So for those who've lived abroad, how did you manage? First off just having close friends or relationships with people? Until you get basically fluent with the language which is a multi year process, it's almost impossible to have real conversations with people, so what do you do for friends? There are expats, but again, aside from the fact that you're both foreigners in a foreign country, you may not have much in common.

First, I'm a loner. I almost always travel alone. It takes time to meet decent people so you just give it time. As far as the language, it depends on how dedicated you choose to be. It doesn't need to take years to speak basic Thai. I did so in about a year. The longer you stay, the easier it gets. Make acquaintances, give time to make friends.

Quote:

Quote:From reading lots of trip reports, It seems the longer people stay in SE Asia, the more trivial annoyances seem to get to them. Hopefully this doesn't come off as too racist or condescending, but the education here is bad, and dealing with people who aren't even grade 9 educated can be incredibly frustrating. It's literally like dealing with children.

If the people were more intelligent on the whole, chances are the third world countries we like so much wouldn't be third world and we couldn't afford to live in them! Patience...learn to ignore shit and be patient. It does help and it does get easier.

If you expect people to relate to you like they do in your home country you might as well pack it in now. Different cultures have different senses of humor. I won't watch Thai TV because it's full of over dramatic soap operas and comedies for complete morons.

Quote:

Quote:The other issue is that no matter how long you are abroad, no matter how well you learn the language, you'll always be a foreigner. I speak passable Indonesian now, but in the tourist areas, even speaking Indonesian and telling people what certain things should cost, some people refuse to budge from tourist pricing.

Again, get over it. For every negatives there are at least five positives. Either that or get an Indonesian chick to make the purchase for you.

Quote:So is it possible to truly integrate into Asian society? Or is all you can do is just stay in gated communities hanging out with other expats.

Gated communities with expats? No way.

I didn't come to Thailand to hang out with foreigners, I came to experience Asia and learn about the region. I feel fortunate to have a close-knit family and a handful of good friends and that's enough for me.

Personally, I've grown slightly bored with Thailand and Asia in general. There's not a whole lot I haven't experienced so I'm now looking into spending a few months in Africa or South America and a few months in Thailand. It may be 3-5 years before I am completely set-up and ready to roll.

Anyhow...as far as integrating. Yes, you can do so but you will never be Asian or Thai. That doesn't bother me one bit. I am what I am. When I stay in another country or region, I know going in I'm a foreigner. Not a problem. Frankly, I don't really care if I'm viewed as an outsider or not.

Post: #20

VP, Jesus Christ now I have to switch up my life plans to work in brazil haha.

Openbar, well said. I can visualize everything you're saying.

Post: #21

(06-29-2013 03:52 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  The food is varied, rich and delicious and healthy. The beef is among the very best in the world. The drinks are among the very best in the world. The tropical juices are simply unbeatable as there a ton of fruits there that are only native of Brasil and have no names in any other languages than Portuguese!

One thing I really miss about Brasil is the food. Brasilian cuisine is as diverse as Brasil itself. Amazonas, Nordeste, Centroeste, Minas Gerais, Sul, ect, all those regions have their own culinary specialities.

Just thinking about the fabulous Goias churrascos(especially the picanha, the king of beef cuts!), the feijoada, the delicious Amazona comida (maniçoba, pato no tucupi, vatapa or the incredibly tasty amazonian fishes) cooked with manioc, the Bahianese moqueca, the Minas feijao tropeiro, the Nordeste carne de sol, the Mato Grosso delicious fish (Pacu, Pintado or Dourado) soups, and all the other succulent regional specialities from Sao Luis, Vitoria (the moqueca capixaba is maybe even better than the Bahia's one IMO), Belem, ect ect, I have my mouth watering.

And as you say, the abundance of strange (cupiaçu, bacuri, acai, ect) and tasty fruits is also unbelievable. In Belem, I have literally spent hours sipping fresh sucos at the outdoor bars of Praca da Republica, Docas or Ver-O-Peso. Great memories.

Brasilian cuisine is for me n°1. And beside "estupidamente geladas" cervejas, what is better to accompany brasilian cuisine than some caipirinhas exoticas with strawberry, kiwi, grape (caipi-uva, my fav), maracuja, ect ?

Post: #22

(06-30-2013 03:46 AM)Prosal Wrote:  what is better to accompany brasilian cuisine than some caipirinhas exoticas with strawberry, kiwi, grape (caipi-uva, my fav), maracuja, ect ?

I found some Caipirinha flavoured cordial in my cupboard last night. I'm very curious now, gonna get some soda water to mix it with. It's non alcohol, though..

Post: #23

(06-30-2013 04:13 AM)Architekt Wrote:  I found some Caipirinha flavoured cordial in my cupboard last night. I'm very curious now, gonna get some soda water to mix it with. It's non alcohol, though..

As a side note, we got drunk on caipirinhas with Akula in Paris last sunday.

Post: #24

Thanks everyone for all the great advice. Like I said here the key is long term quality of life. I want to set up a home base. Indonesia has a plus that I'm already 2 years invested in the language, it would be a very short commute to work, and since I work here, there would be no visa issues. The downsides I've touched on. Any other SE Asian or even SA country would require visa hassles, potentially legal/tax stuff if I get a place there, as well as starting language study anew.

American in Bangkok, what exactly do you do for fun on the outskirts of a small city? Like the situation would literally be 28 days of free time, so I was thinking of being in at least a sizable city with a western streak at least for things like food/recrreation/hobbies etc. That's one of the draws to Oz is that despite the overt westernization, you can live on the beach, do things like a night photography course, language isn't an issue, all the creature comforts of the west. I'll literally be living in a jungle camp for a month at a time, so on my time off I want a taste of the good life.

As for the details of the job, basically I work now 8 weeks on/3 off in a remote location, but share a house in a small town with 3-5 coworkers. They want me to trasfer to the capital for a project that basically requires me to live at the rig camp, but because I'm based in the capital they say it's high quality of life, so you get zero rotation and less money. Just maybe 4-6 weeks per year and the odd sunday off when its slow. Needless to say at this point in my life I'm trying to work less not more. So because it's 28 days straight at the rig, I'll be arguing for 28/28, because some guys have negotiated that in the past. I just feel like a bit of an ass making 3-4 times what the locals make, and saying that's not good enough. My specific job is we put tools in oil wells that measure various properties (does it conduct electricity? Water does, oil/gas doesn't, what is the speed of sound? fluids are slower than rock, how dense is it? Rock is heavier than gas etc) and we basically make a map for the oil companies with best guess of what it looks like down hole based on those measurements. But absolutely zero quality of life. Up at 4:45, 12 hour shifts starting at 5:30, 2 TVs between 190 guys, I'm lucky i get my own room, but its an 8 foot cube with a shared bathroom. Consider it as trading 1 month of your life. If they don't go for the 28/28 thing I'll probably quit. Spend some time back in Canada, enjoy the summer, then hit the road and follow the sun when the weather turns. Money wise I'm fine for years, but would like to keep the job just so I don't get bored.

Post: #25

(06-28-2013 08:06 PM)Seadog Wrote:  I'm thinking potentially of getting a place in Bali, the other option would be to be boring and just set up in Canada or Australia.

You mentioned avoiding Australia, but I would consider it. I have a friend who lives in Sydney and travels every other weekend somewhere new in SE Asia. Last month he was in Manila, the month before in South Korea and given from his facebook this weekend, he's in Kuala Lumpur at the moment. In Australia you'd have all the amenities of living in a western country and language wouldn't be a problem.