Post: #1

Jamie Lewis wrote a great article on why not jerking off is stupid. I agree completely. He found that it increases total testosterone (no-fap) but that's not the issue at hand, because total testosterone is sort of a meaningless number from a health aspect.

"Free testosterone" that circulates the bloodstream (roughly 2 percent of total T) is apparently the number that is important, which the no-fap movement does not take into consideration. That's what helps out muscle gains and general horniness.

One thing the no-fap group definitely has right though is that too much porn fucks with your brain. I quit porn a while back and disabled my wireless router so I have to use my shitty ass "family computer" for internet, and I've never felt better or been hornier. I'm even having fairly lucid dreams It's great.

If anyone is worried about jerking off all the time and it somehow destroying your masculine essence, eat more zinc. Most people are deficient and ejaculation can worsen that deficiency.

edit: It's Jamie Lewis's newest post. I'm trying to load the link but the blog is down for some reason.

Here is the particular quote that you guys should all read -

Quote:One summer in college I somehow found myself in a conversation with a geriatric at my gym who still boasted veins on his biceps that rivaled my own, currently.

At the time I was still in heavy pursuit of what my friends and I had dubbed "the Arnold veins", and so I naturally assumed any man with the requisite muscularity and leanness to boast them under skin ensconced in liver spots likely knew what the fuck he was talking about. As such, when he told me that his strength and virility came from abstention from both sex and masturbation, as spilling his seed was a waste of his vitality, I soaked the information up like a Bounty paper towel and resolved to quit cold turkey.

This was not easy- I've masturbated two or more times a day since I was in second grade, and falling asleep without jerking off was then and is now about as likely as Verne Troyer successfully dunking on a basketball hoop without the use of a jetpack. Nevertheless, I gave it hell, and for about a year I jerked off to completion somewhere between twice and four times a month. Proud of my "self control", I waited patiently for Brodin to bless me with the gains for which I prayed nightly.

They did not arrive, but what did was a horrifying case of erectile dysfunction when I attempted to have sex that was as breathtaking as it was infuriating. It wasn't that I couldn't get it up- my erections became penile strobe lights, flashing on and off without rhyme or reason and not allowing either party to cum. In a panic, I scheduled a doctor's appointment with a urologist, who proceeded to laugh out loud when I explained what I'd done (or not done, as the case may be) for the last year.

That's right- a panicky 23 year old was nearly laughed out of a medical doctor's office, so stupid was his mindset over the last year. After assuring me my dick would stop randomly playing dead during sex if I followed his advice, he sent me on my way with "Buy some Penthouses (not Playboys) and masturbate as often as possible, and no fewer than three times a day" scribbled in chicken scratch on a prescription sheet.

Post: #2

how do you eat more zinc?

Post: #3

I am taking ZMA before going to sleep.

There are a few threads about zinc on the forum.

Post: #4

From a personal perspective, fapping is good and should be considered for stress release/stamina/ blah blah. The issue at hand is watching porn or be it too much porn. But Hades is right, psychologically it does effect you in a mental and physical standpoint. Everything your imagination could want is just a click away. Once your mind is satisfied with this, it becomes increasingly harder to get aroused or stimulated in real life, you live in your little bubble of porn and shit.

Post: #5

OK here is the link -

http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2013/07...g-way.html

Post: #6

I think there's a need to find a happy medium with nearly all things in this world; jerking off is no exception. I've been on both ends of the spectrum: Jacking off twice a day regularly with porn to having recently gone 12 weeks without touching myself. There is no doubt in my mind that No Fap will lead to being hornier, but at what cost?

If I jerk off, am I suddenly no longer attracted to women? Am I suddenly a huge beta? Do I never want to fuck again? No, no and no. The effects of No Fap have been greatly exaggerated, but it does have a lot of merit imo. I think the No Fap movement is most helpful to those who jerk it to porn regularly and is a way to help destroy that habit. Also, it does allow you to get more horny and therefore more willing to approach women.

I have found recently that fapping once, twice a week at most is okay, if not beneficial in that it allows me to relax and not bust as soon as I touch a female.

Seth Rose

Post: #7

Does zinc definitely help you feel better?

Has anyone done experiments which controlled for the placebo effect? Since the placebo effect is a very powerful thing.

Post: #8

(07-17-2013 12:17 PM)Hades Wrote:  Jamie Lewis wrote a great article on why not jerking off is stupid. I agree completely. He found that it increases total testosterone (no-fap) but that's not the issue at hand, because total testosterone is sort of a meaningless number from a health aspect.

"Free testosterone" that circulates the bloodstream (roughly 2 percent of total T) is apparently the number that is important, which the no-fap movement does not take into consideration. That's what helps out muscle gains and general horniness.

One thing the no-fap group definitely has right though is that too much porn fucks with your brain. I quit porn a while back and disabled my wireless router so I have to use my shitty ass "family computer" for internet, and I've never felt better or been hornier. I'm even having fairly lucid dreams It's great.

If anyone is worried about jerking off all the time and it somehow destroying your masculine essence, eat more zinc. Most people are deficient and ejaculation can worsen that deficiency.

edit: It's Jamie Lewis's newest post. I'm trying to load the link but the blog is down for some reason.

Here is the particular quote that you guys should all read -

Quote:One summer in college I somehow found myself in a conversation with a geriatric at my gym who still boasted veins on his biceps that rivaled my own, currently.

At the time I was still in heavy pursuit of what my friends and I had dubbed "the Arnold veins", and so I naturally assumed any man with the requisite muscularity and leanness to boast them under skin ensconced in liver spots likely knew what the fuck he was talking about. As such, when he told me that his strength and virility came from abstention from both sex and masturbation, as spilling his seed was a waste of his vitality, I soaked the information up like a Bounty paper towel and resolved to quit cold turkey.

This was not easy- I've masturbated two or more times a day since I was in second grade, and falling asleep without jerking off was then and is now about as likely as Verne Troyer successfully dunking on a basketball hoop without the use of a jetpack. Nevertheless, I gave it hell, and for about a year I jerked off to completion somewhere between twice and four times a month. Proud of my "self control", I waited patiently for Brodin to bless me with the gains for which I prayed nightly.

They did not arrive, but what did was a horrifying case of erectile dysfunction when I attempted to have sex that was as breathtaking as it was infuriating. It wasn't that I couldn't get it up- my erections became penile strobe lights, flashing on and off without rhyme or reason and not allowing either party to cum. In a panic, I scheduled a doctor's appointment with a urologist, who proceeded to laugh out loud when I explained what I'd done (or not done, as the case may be) for the last year.

That's right- a panicky 23 year old was nearly laughed out of a medical doctor's office, so stupid was his mindset over the last year. After assuring me my dick would stop randomly playing dead during sex if I followed his advice, he sent me on my way with "Buy some Penthouses (not Playboys) and masturbate as often as possible, and no fewer than three times a day" scribbled in chicken scratch on a prescription sheet.

I agree with this shit but I also agree with the no fap movement.

I find the easy access of being able to see a girl naked and fucking at my discretion is ultimately what keeps me unmotivated to want to have sex or meet women.

This is where having a consistent sex partner/girlfriend is key because you can stop watching porn, have regular sex and maintain your motivation and horniness. I just dropped the masturbation out of the equation.

Also, while zinc as a supplement seems to have mixed results with T levels and shit, I do feel hornier taking it, but again, I only took it when I was watching porn all the time.

I think for the sake of gentlemen trying to cut porn out but want to feel healthy sexually and don't have a sex partner at the time, masturbate without material, jerk off to clothed women, etc. etc. I think there is some psychological merit to the fact that being able to freely watch porn is motivationally killing and somewhat addictive.

Post: #9

Umm, I don't get why a Dr's opinion on masturbation is more qualified than anyone elses.

People overestimate the value of authority.

And as we can see by the many alternate anecdotes, this guys experience is hardly a universal. Apparently different strokes for different dicks.

Post: #10

(07-17-2013 02:35 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Does zinc definitely help you feel better?

Has anyone done experiments which controlled for the placebo effect? Since the placebo effect is a very powerful thing.

Two years before I found the RVF I used to take a magnesium supplement with chelated zinc because my doctor recommended a magnesium supplement since he said my diet was pretty bad (no green vegetables, no seeds, little dairy, have since rectified), and within a week of taking moderate doses I was horny like a 14 year old again.

I might have mentioned this in the OP but men have a much higher need for zinc, magnesium, (calcium to some degree) than women because the daily "human" requirements for zinc is something like 15 mg but the average cumshot has something like 30 to 300 milligrams of zinc and a significant amount of magnesium in it. Almost everybody who jerks off or gets laid regularly is deficient in it.

ZMA is a good supplement that I have not tried (it's zinc and magnesium dosed "for men"), it does all the work for you and is supposedly more bioavailable than the chelated variety.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bigj4.htm

You want to take a zinc/magnesium combo supplement before bedtime, as it's supposed to promote deep sleep and makes me pretty tired. I sleep really hard while taking a zinc and magnesium supplement.

Post: #11

Watching porn cannot be a good thing.

You're training yourself to orgasm after seeing many young women from angles you normally don't see.

I noticed needing to watch my dick going in-n-out the pussy to stay aroused, or having to think about other girls (while this girl was seriously hot).

Not masturbating also isn't good.

You need to flush the system. Otherwise toxins accumulate.

Say hello to prostate cancer!

Post: #12

Can a multivitamin such as Controlled Labs Orange Triad be a good way of getting in zinc and magnesium since it contains reasonable amounts plus other vitamins and stuff which I am sure all help and contribute to tesosterone, libido and other stuff to do with sex, women etc

Post: #13

There is no issue with fapping.... It's porn that's the issue.

Post: #14

It's not even about testosterone levels, but the dopamine system in place in your brain. Porn changes your brain physically, and abstaining from porn, masturbation, and orgasm allows the brain to reach a level of homeostasis and 'heal' itself. It's like recovering from a cocaine addiction or similar substance, but I think porn is far more reaching and dangerous than a physical substance. Porn is trash, in other words. PMO free for 53 days now and I feel like god.

Post: #15

(07-20-2013 08:16 PM)Ubietza Wrote:  It's not even about testosterone levels, but the dopamine system in place in your brain. Porn changes your brain physically, and abstaining from porn, masturbation, and orgasm allows the brain to reach a level of homeostasis and 'heal' itself. It's like recovering from a cocaine addiction or similar substance, but I think porn is far more reaching and dangerous than a physical substance. Porn is trash, in other words. PMO free for 53 days now and I feel like god.

You got ANY sources for outrageous claims like that?
I quit porn and wanking for weeks and had absolutely no positive effects. On the contrary I was so horny I could hardly focus on anything.

I cant help but think that feminism is spreading misinformation about porn nowadays. I watch porn, jerk off and go on with my day but from some of the stuff you read you might think its the new crack.

Post: #16

(07-21-2013 06:06 AM)w00t Wrote:  

(07-20-2013 08:16 PM)Ubietza Wrote:  It's not even about testosterone levels, but the dopamine system in place in your brain. Porn changes your brain physically, and abstaining from porn, masturbation, and orgasm allows the brain to reach a level of homeostasis and 'heal' itself. It's like recovering from a cocaine addiction or similar substance, but I think porn is far more reaching and dangerous than a physical substance. Porn is trash, in other words. PMO free for 53 days now and I feel like god.

You got ANY sources for outrageous claims like that?
I quit porn and wanking for weeks and had absolutely no positive effects. On the contrary I was so horny I could hardly focus on anything.

I cant help but think that feminism is spreading misinformation about porn nowadays. I watch porn, jerk off and go on with my day but from some of the stuff you read you might think its the new crack.

My eyes were opened by yourbrainonporn.com and I'm not doing it for testosterone reasons but to heal the 19 years of damage I've dealt my dopaminergic system. What's outrageous about what I wrote? For me, personally, porn has been absolutely destructive. Longest I've gone has been 70 days, but now I've told myself it's going to be a life-long commitment. No pussy, no orgasm. Right now, I'm hovering around 54 days and feel like god. Going for the magical 90.

As for the poster that was asking if you can still wank while abstaining from porn, you can do whatever you want, but the point here is that you're hard-wired to masturbate while watching porn. You cut-out the harmful stimulus and the action associated with it to try to recover and destroy your reliance on porn. Some people can drink like fish day-in and day-out and masturbate 3 times a day to internet porn and not be affected, but I'm not one of those. Know thyself.

Post: #17

Its outrageous to me to compare porn and masturbation to hard drug addiction and that it somehow damages the dopaminergic system. Thats just complete hogwash to me. I know the site yourbrainonpron.com and its really sketchy and basically the only source for these far out claims. I cant shake the feeling its some feminist or christian nutcase propaganda to make people stop jerking off. For me its on the same level like saying video games and movies make people violent.

Post: #18

If you don't understand how porn can fuck up your brain then you're not thinking very clearly.

Your brain did not evolve to handle seeing dozens or hundreds of beautiful young women naked and getting fucked on demand. That's sexual overload. You become desensitized to it over time, and it distorts the way you view sex and relationships with women in your real life.

Porn basically gives your brain a visual reward that's completely out of line with your effort to earn it. In order to see a beautiful, young naked girl getting fucked, for most of human history a man had to be the one fucking that girl, so he had to put in all the effort that went along with doing so. With porn, you simply click a link, and you can watch beautiful girls getting fucked until your dick falls off. But you didn't earn it. You're just sitting at home in front of your computer. You didn't actually fuck that girl, you watched some other dude fuck her.

Porn basically trains a man to be sexually passive. Watching porn will always be easier and more tempting than putting in the work to fuck a hot girl in real life. And a lot of guys get hooked on it for that reason, the same way they get hooked on drugs.

Post: #19

The whole line of reasoning is so weird to me I dont even know where to begin.

Not working for seeing naked girls? Yeah and so what? By that logic a strip club would have the same effect. And even before porn there were pictures, magazines, videos. My local video shop has hundreds of dvds with all kinds of disgusting shit yet people say that internet porn is the new crack.

And how is it even remotely comparable to hard drugs addiction? Do ppl suck dicks or rob grannys to get their porn fix? And where does that claim come from that it somehow damages your receptors in the brain? That happens from longterm hardcore drug use not from watching some videos. If that was true action movies would have the same effect.

I have no problems with ppl quitting porn and wanking if they feel it hepls them, but these outrageous claims coming out of the anti-porn camp are putting me off. There are some really big claims like its physically changing your brain and theres absolutely no evidence or sources for that except this shifty yourbrainonporn site that started the whole hype a couple of years back.

Post: #20

Do you not realize that a lot of guys DO get addicted to strip clubs?

And that pre-internet, a lot of guys WERE addicted to porn from sex shops and adult video stores?

The thing about the internet is that it takes all of the effort and expense out of acquiring porn. Imagine if you had a faucet in your kitchen that pumped out an unlimited supply of liquor for $10 a month. Do you think you might drink more? And even if YOU didn't become an alcoholic, surely you can understand that if everyone had such a faucet, there'd be a lot more alcoholics walking around?

Also I don't think you really understand how brain chemistry works. Any pattern of behavior will change your brain over time. Are you familiar with habits? Habits are a re-wiring of the brain over time due to the repeated performance of certain activities. The brain is plastic and adapts itself to the things we do. If you watch a lot of porn, you brain adapts itself to that stimulus and comes to expect it. Needless to say, there is nothing natural about your brain expecting a constant flow of beautiful naked women for zero effort.

Basically, you're engaging in the solipsistic thinking that is characteristic of women: you think that because YOU have never had a problem with porn, and because YOU don't understand how it could even be a problem, then it simply can't be a problem at all. Step your thinking back and realize that just because you might be the exception to the rule, that doesn't mean the rule doesn't apply generally.

Post: #21

Regardless of whether or not you believe the claims that porn fucks with the dopamine levels in your brain, you should be able to figure out for yourself whether watching porn is benefiting you.

For me, it definitely doesn't benefit me.

I've noticed that when I am watching a lot of porn, banging a new girl is never as satisfying...I can't help but subconsciously compare her to Jenna Haze, and feel like damn - she's not as hot as the girls I prefer busting a nut to (girls in porn).

When I abstain from porn for weeks on end, the feeling of being with a new girl is much more satisfying. She doesn't have to be the hottest girl ever, but as long as she's cute I'm happy to have her in front of me, naked, asking for sex.

Mentioned earlier, from an evolutionary standpoint, this makes sense. If I am constantly being exposed to the hottest naked chicks the internet has to offer, being with a decent or even good looking girl might mean less.

When you haven't seen a naked girl in days, or weeks, finally obtaining it (without having jerked off two times earlier in the day to Jenavive Jolie getting railed in the ass) is MUCH more gratifying.

Post: #22

@scorpion

Well weak minded people get addicted to all kinds of stuff. Food, tv, gambling ... that doesnt mean a thing is bad in itself. Lots of people can handle those things just fine.
And that behavioural patterns emerge in the brain is a bit different than saying porn damages your dopaminergic system. Huge difference actually. And again how is it the same like hard drug addiction? Its not the same at all. Hard drugs can kill you.

You say there is nothing natural about watching lots of beautiful naked women. Yeah so? When I watch action movies tons of people get killed thats not natural either. But thats not a problem while porn is? This whole line of reasoning doesnt make any sense to me. Its just the same discussion we had 20 years ago or sth when people were freaking out over violent movies, music and video games and now its porn.

I could throw the solipsistic comment right back at you, just because YOU have a problem doesnt mean everbodye else is gonna have problem with it too. There are tons of people who watch porn and have no problem with it. There are also tons of people online who think if they just quit porn their lifes will magically turn around. The whole thing has become yet another magic pill.

Like I said I have no problem with people quitting porn if they think its a problem for them. What I do have a problem with is all this hysterical stuff that has absolutely no foundation in reality. Like comparing it to hard drugs or saying it damages your dopaminergic system. And no I wouldnt become an alcoholic with an unlimited supply because a) I got self control and b) I dont even like alcohol that much.

Post: #23

(07-21-2013 11:32 AM)scorpion Wrote:  If you don't understand how porn can fuck up your brain then you're not thinking very clearly.

Your brain did not evolve to handle seeing dozens or hundreds of beautiful young women naked and getting fucked on demand. That's sexual overload. You become desensitized to it over time, and it distorts the way you view sex and relationships with women in your real life.

Porn basically gives your brain a visual reward that's completely out of line with your effort to earn it. In order to see a beautiful, young naked girl getting fucked, for most of human history a man had to be the one fucking that girl, so he had to put in all the effort that went along with doing so. With porn, you simply click a link, and you can watch beautiful girls getting fucked until your dick falls off. But you didn't earn it. You're just sitting at home in front of your computer. You didn't actually fuck that girl, you watched some other dude fuck her.

Porn basically trains a man to be sexually passive. Watching porn will always be easier and more tempting than putting in the work to fuck a hot girl in real life. And a lot of guys get hooked on it for that reason, the same way they get hooked on drugs.

The same thing can be said about sex if you're not trying to conceive a child. Sex without pro-creation is meaningless, so is watching porn.

Post: #24

the same thing can be said about VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES....how it is a passive form of actual, real life violence and gore and horrific killings and explosion....

the structure of your argument is:

1.1. Your brain is not used to "X", unless you do something active to get "X".
X in the case being a beautiful women.
1.2. If you started getting an approximation of "X" through passive means(watching porn)...you will experience an overload...that means you become desensitized towards "x".


From that....one can run down the rabbit hole:

Your brain is not used to "seeing many ridiculously successful people"...seeing movies or reading books about their biographies...overload your brain...therefore, desensitized you towards having ambition......

(07-21-2013 11:32 AM)scorpion Wrote:  If you don't understand how porn can fuck up your brain then you're not thinking very clearly.

Your brain did not evolve to handle seeing dozens or hundreds of beautiful young women naked and getting fucked on demand. That's sexual overload. You become desensitized to it over time, and it distorts the way you view sex and relationships with women in your real life.

Porn basically gives your brain a visual reward that's completely out of line with your effort to earn it. In order to see a beautiful, young naked girl getting fucked, for most of human history a man had to be the one fucking that girl, so he had to put in all the effort that went along with doing so. With porn, you simply click a link, and you can watch beautiful girls getting fucked until your dick falls off. But you didn't earn it. You're just sitting at home in front of your computer. You didn't actually fuck that girl, you watched some other dude fuck her.

Porn basically trains a man to be sexually passive. Watching porn will always be easier and more tempting than putting in the work to fuck a hot girl in real life. And a lot of guys get hooked on it for that reason, the same way they get hooked on drugs.

Post: #25

Nemencine, you're actually completely right. The comparison to violent video games is exact. The same way that violent video games act as an outlet for male aggression, porn acts as an outlet for sexual desire. However, in both cases, the man is simply sitting alone in his chair. He isn't actually doing anything in real life. In moderation, both of these things are harmless. But it's easy for guys to become obsessed with either of them, just because the biological rewards (the dopamine hits) are so out of line with the actual effort expended (sitting in your chair).

Imagine you had the magical power to summon beautiful women on demand for sex. How much effort would you put into developing yourself as a man if that was the case? Much less than you would otherwise, because you simply wouldn't have the incentive. Why would you bother to spend hours at the bar to take home a 7 when you could summon a perfect 10 for no effort? Only a fool would do so.

Porn is basically a lesser version of that power. It allows guys to access virtual sex with beautiful women with no effort on their part. It encourages laziness and apathy toward the pursuit of women, which is what underlies all male achievement. It allows men a sexual outlet that our brains didn't evolve to handle.