Post: #1

Part of the reason why I study game is to learn to keep my emotions in check. As I've gotten older I've gotten more stoic, but certain things can cause me to crack. I can usually go with the flow, but anyone who's wishy-washy with me will just hit my berserk button. And as we know a lot of girls like to tease and then flake during courtship. As a logical male I assume that women always mean what they say, but it's always much more complex than that and I'm trying to learn not to project my values onto them.

This all stems from my thread about not being able to seal the deal with a girl I've already fucked (Who is also the best looking girl I've been with). She was wishy-washy the whole week, and eventually really hit my berserk button when it took her almost 24 hours to respond to a text I sent. I stopped contacting her after that - If she really cared she'd initiate contact (So far she hasn't).

If a girl says no right off the bat I'm completely fine with it. But it bugs me when a girl shows signs of interest, then disinterest, then interest. I've got a pretty busy life and I don't schedule time for just anyone, so I feel immensely disrespected when my time and energy are wasted. How do you guys deal with this? What do you do to keep yourself from feeling like shit?

Post: #2

(08-01-2013 05:56 PM)Lex S. Wrote:  How do you guys deal with this? What do you do to keep yourself from feeling like shit?

You have so much shit going on that you don't really care if one specific girl doesn't follow through. It takes time and effort to develop that level of abundance.

Post: #3

(08-01-2013 06:24 PM)reino341 Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 05:56 PM)Lex S. Wrote:  How do you guys deal with this? What do you do to keep yourself from feeling like shit?

You have so much shit going on that you don't really care if one specific girl doesn't follow through. It takes time and effort to develop that level of abundance.

Definitely. I'm a freelancer so there's always work to be done and money to be made. I think the problem was the sense of urgency I wanted with this girl - She's only in town for a week and won't be back for a while so it's like a now-or-never scenario. There's no doubt I'd be more calm if she lived in the same city as me.

Post: #4

The problem is youve gotten too emotionally invested in this girl too quickly probably because shes good looking. Youre getting oneitis while it looks like you were just a pump and dump to her
you should be gaming numerous girls at the same time. If a girl flakes on me it doesnt mean shit to me since I hslfway expect it anyway and always have a back up plan.
I can sympathize with the sutuation in which a girl who is hot and you like and youve banged and want to bang again is acting flaky. That is tougher. You just have to game other girls and let her go if she doesnt want to see u again.

Post: #5

What MrXY said. Also:

(08-01-2013 05:56 PM)Lex S. Wrote:  If a girl says no right off the bat I'm completely fine with it. But it bugs me when a girl shows signs of interest, then disinterest, then interest.

Understandable.

Quote:I've got a pretty busy life and I don't schedule time for just anyone,

Not busy enough. You need to get to a point where you're no longer getting so emotionally invested in individual girls that they have the power to make you feel "immensely disrespected" by flaking. That means applying MrXY's advice and getting more going on in your romantic life and/or just making other plans in the event of flaking (which you ought to expect and be totally prepared for).

Quote:How do you guys deal with this? What do you do to keep yourself from feeling like shit?

See above and see MrXY's advice. You simply need to minimize emotional investment in any individual girl and up your own preparation for inevitable flakes. You do that by a) gaming multiple girls at once (giving you other romantic options and leaving you less dependent on any single likely flaky girl) and/or b) occupying yourself with a host of other obligations that you genuinely prefer and that can take up your time in the event of a flake. It should get to a point at which a girl can flake on you and it can have no impact on the quality of your night because you've made plans for just that scenario and can still have fun.

Ex: Invite girl to bar. Girl either doesn't respond or flakes out last minute. The bar you invited her to is a place you enjoy and you have many other friends who hang out there regularly anyway. She doesn't show? Go hang out with your friends, maybe talk to a few other girls. Night is no worse for her absence, you had fun.

That kind of thing is what I'm talking about. Between interacting with multiple different girls at the same time and building anticipation of flakes into the plans you make with any given girl, you can minimize your emotional investment and reduce a girl's ability to make you feel like total shit via flake.

Post: #6

(08-01-2013 06:56 PM)Lex S. Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 06:24 PM)reino341 Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 05:56 PM)Lex S. Wrote:  How do you guys deal with this? What do you do to keep yourself from feeling like shit?

You have so much shit going on that you don't really care if one specific girl doesn't follow through. It takes time and effort to develop that level of abundance.

Definitely. I'm a freelancer so there's always work to be done and money to be made. I think the problem was the sense of urgency I wanted with this girl - She's only in town for a week and won't be back for a while so it's like a now-or-never scenario. There's no doubt I'd be more calm if she lived in the same city as me.

Remind yourself of your priorities in life. Structure your hours.

Let's say you have 8MB of RAM. A woman is like a program taking up RAM, and although she is only worth 500KB, she will fill your entire 8MB with no conscience if it goes unused.

Post: #7

Thanks for the help, guys. I didn't mention it in the OP but I've been seeing another girl casually for a while. The steady girl is fine and all, but she's nowhere near the best-looking girl I've been with and I know I can do better. And I know part of the reason she sticks around is that I barely make time for her and I frequently make up excuses for not seeing her while also remaining calm and collected around her advances.

I seriously brain farted with the hotter chick, and I know now that I should treat her like steady girl - Game a 10 the same way you'd game a 6. The problem was the hot chick was only in town for about 5 days so I felt an urgency to speed things up, otherwise it'd be months before I could see her again. The hot girl contacted me this afternoon about a topic we were talking about when I saw her last week. I didn't know whether to respond or not - I ended up waiting about an hour and then texting her back VERY brief responses. What's odd is that the longer I took to respond and the briefer I was, the quicker she texted back and the more she wrote. She may be a lost cause, but I think some uncaring aloof game could turn the tables in my favor.

Post: #8

(08-01-2013 05:56 PM)Lex S. Wrote:  Part of the reason why I study game is to learn to keep my emotions in check. As I've gotten older I've gotten more stoic, but certain things can cause me to crack. I can usually go with the flow, but anyone who's wishy-washy with me will just hit my berserk button. And as we know a lot of girls like to tease and then flake during courtship. As a logical male I assume that women always mean what they say, but it's always much more complex than that and I'm trying to learn not to project my values onto them.

This all stems from my thread about not being able to seal the deal with a girl I've already fucked (Who is also the best looking girl I've been with). She was wishy-washy the whole week, and eventually really hit my berserk button when it took her almost 24 hours to respond to a text I sent. I stopped contacting her after that - If she really cared she'd initiate contact (So far she hasn't).

If a girl says no right off the bat I'm completely fine with it. But it bugs me when a girl shows signs of interest, then disinterest, then interest. I've got a pretty busy life and I don't schedule time for just anyone, so I feel immensely disrespected when my time and energy are wasted. How do you guys deal with this? What do you do to keep yourself from feeling like shit?

damn. im in the exact same position. I stopped contacting this girl for a week after she flaked and ive haven't heard from her since and then I caved in and texted her(classic beta move). she is responsive to my texts but only shows interest if I initiate.

It is the most frustrating thing in the world and I have no idea if I have any knd of chance with this girl even though ive already fucked her. For some reason I cant stop thinking about her and by her playing this stupid game it constantly makes me question my self worth making me feel like shit.

the only thing you can do is go out and try to fuck other girls. honestly, my whole take on it now is not giving a fuck. the reason why I caved in and texted her is because I don't care anymore if it is bad game. Id rather completely fuck it up and know for a fact its not going to work. Then playing this stupid game not knowing wtf is going to happen.

I might be a newbie but it is another take on rooshv's contrary game. I don't care to the point where I am now aggressive in texts with this girl, if it comes off as needy and fucks it up then its whatever. because I can now have closure and move on.

Post: #9

(08-01-2013 05:56 PM)Lex S. Wrote:  As a logical male I assume that women always mean what they say, but it's always much more complex than that and I'm trying to learn not to project my values onto them.
...
...
But it bugs me when a girl shows signs of interest, then disinterest, then interest. I've got a pretty busy life and I don't schedule time for just anyone, so I feel immensely disrespected when my time and energy are wasted. How do you guys deal with this? What do you do to keep yourself from feeling like shit?

Your first mistake is to apply full logical analysis onto women. As for human relationships, women are creatures which neocortex is impaired by an hormonal storm, therefore allowing their limbic system and reptilian brain to run amok and dominate their logic with instincts (feelings). Only menopausic women can be truly considered logical beings.

What a woman says or thinks about other humans is largely irrelevant. What she feels at the moment is everything. You must use your male logic to analyze stimulus generating feelings in the women, and provide her with stimulus that create favorable feelings about you in her limbic system (a.k.a. Game). For that, you need to be a natural player, or to read, act and practice for years.

As for your time and energy, you have to understand that, unlike men, women never evolved to efficiently use time and resources. Add in the fact that young, attractive women can get male attention on a daily basis, and the plain truth is that most women don't care about your time at all. You are an expendable, replaceable stimulus. Treat women the same way.

Feeling disrespeted for a flake means you still have to learn. Always assume the flake, always make a plan B, always spin multiple plates. It is easier to write it than to do it, of course.

Post: #10

(11-12-2013 01:29 PM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 05:56 PM)Lex S. Wrote:  As a logical male I assume that women always mean what they say, but it's always much more complex than that and I'm trying to learn not to project my values onto them.
...
...
But it bugs me when a girl shows signs of interest, then disinterest, then interest. I've got a pretty busy life and I don't schedule time for just anyone, so I feel immensely disrespected when my time and energy are wasted. How do you guys deal with this? What do you do to keep yourself from feeling like shit?

Your first mistake is to apply full logical analysis onto women. As for human relationships, women are creatures which neocortex is impaired by an hormonal storm, therefore allowing their limbic system and reptilian brain to run amok and dominate their logic with instincts (feelings). Only menopausic women can be truly considered logical beings.

What a woman says or thinks about other humans is largely irrelevant. What she feels at the moment is everything. You must use your male logic to analyze stimulus generating feelings in the women, and provide her with stimulus that create favorable feelings about you in her limbic system (a.k.a. Game). For that, you need to be a natural player, or to read, act and practice for years.

As for your time and energy, you have to understand that, unlike men, women never evolved to efficiently use time and resources. Add in the fact that young, attractive women can get male attention on a daily basis, and the plain truth is that most women don't care about your time at all. You are an expendable, replaceable stimulus. Treat women the same way.

Feeling disrespeted for a flake means you still have to learn. Always assume the flake, always make a plan B, always spin multiple plates. It is easier to write it than to do it, of course.

Amazing post, man! That's so true, the hardest part about game is not projecting your values and logic onto other people, in this case women. I'm a really logical guy, always to a fault, so I really do need to tap into the animal side of my brain and really just use emotion to get their interest.

And the other side of that is what you mentioned about time and resources - Women project their values and hamster logic onto men. I've never met an American female in her 20's from a middle-to-upper class background who lead a responsible life. Women aren't only showered with attention and kindness from men romantically, they're also given the same attention at work and in school. I've worked with 20-something women, and it seems like all "career women" do today is fuck around on Facebook or text on their phones. Work is just an inconvenience in between parties and dinners and dates. Since they can't empathize with putting in an honest day's work and using their time in a valuable manner then they waste your time, flake, etc. All men really have are their time and their resources, and speaking as a man this is why it irks me so much when someone flakes, wastes my time, etc.

Great point about assuming the flake. I'll have to do that from now on. I've found that your mindset can really fuck you up, and if your expectations are too high then you're doomed to be disappointed. Meeting a girl and WANTING to fuck is one thing and that will actually probably help your game - EXPECTING to fuck is completely different and detrimental.

Post: #11

We evolved to hunt and fight. Survival meant experience, logic and efficient use of resources. That is why men built bridges, got to the moon, created money, armies and politics for long-term while women used gossip, deceit and lies to form short-term alliances while nursing babies.

Game is, above all, an inner frame. It is difficult to de-program oneself from years of feminism and beta-father values, but it is doable. Download the books by Daniel Goleman: Emotional Intelligence and Social Intelligence.

It is called game for a reason. It is not the Mission, the Purpose, but a Game. You play and sometimes win, then loose the rest. The best PUAs have been rejected more than most men that ever existed, but have also fucked more than most men ever.

Post: #12

We evolved to hunt and fight. Survival meant experience, logic and efficient use of resources. That is why men built bridges, got to the moon, created money, armies and politics for long-term while women used gossip, deceit and lies to form short-term alliances while nursing babies.

Game is, above all, an inner frame. It is difficult to de-program oneself from years of feminism and beta-father values, but it is doable. Download the books by Daniel Goleman: Emotional Intelligence and Social Intelligence.

It is called game for a reason. It is not the Mission, the Purpose, but a Game. You play and sometimes win, then loose the rest. The best PUAs have been rejected more than most men that ever existed, but have also fucked more than most men ever.

Post: #13

There is this persian girl in my apartment. She is liberal in outlook and was giving me some big IOIs(or so I thought). Asked her if she wanted to hang out sometime and she said she will think about it. Then about 3hrs later, texted she may not be able to join me but she 'hopes to be able to go out as a group' with her iranian friends sometimes as she wants to 'keep her friendships'.

Am I right in saying this is a rejection and not a shit-test? Havent texted her back since. Now that I am probably going to run into her, how do I interact with her here on?

In such scenarios, what would be the right mental frame of mind to adopt towards such girls?

Post: #14

(12-15-2015 01:39 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  There is this persian girl in my apartment. She is liberal in outlook and was giving me some big IOIs(or so I thought). Asked her if she wanted to hang out sometime and she said she will think about it. Then about 3hrs later, texted she may not be able to join me but she 'hopes to be able to go out as a group' with her iranian friends sometimes as she wants to 'keep her friendships'.

Am I right in saying this is a rejection and not a shit-test? Havent texted her back since. Now that I am probably going to run into her, how do I interact with her here on?

In such scenarios, what would be the right mental frame of mind to adopt towards such girls?

Sounds like she wants to make you an orbiter.

> Now that I am probably going to run into her, how do I interact with her here on?

Aloof, slightly disinterested. Make her chase but keep flirting.

Post: #15

(12-15-2015 04:23 AM)reino341 Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 01:39 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  There is this persian girl in my apartment. She is liberal in outlook and was giving me some big IOIs(or so I thought). Asked her if she wanted to hang out sometime and she said she will think about it. Then about 3hrs later, texted she may not be able to join me but she 'hopes to be able to go out as a group' with her iranian friends sometimes as she wants to 'keep her friendships'.

Am I right in saying this is a rejection and not a shit-test? Havent texted her back since. Now that I am probably going to run into her, how do I interact with her here on?

In such scenarios, what would be the right mental frame of mind to adopt towards such girls?

Aloof, slightly disinterested. Make her chase but keep flirting.

Not sure how to be aloof and keep flirting at the same time. Am a newbie to RVF, this is my first rejection outside of nightgame since I got into game. Prior to this, I would have just started ignoring the girl and only exchange basic pleasantries if I run into her. So, would like to know how flirting can come into this kind of disinterested behaviour.

Some egs might be helpful.

Post: #16

Are you still posting about this one girl?

Didn't she say no to a free dinner on your behalf, and in fact explicitly state that she just wanted to be friends? Edit: Thus implying she won't even tolerate being alone with you as one of her orbiters in exchange for free food?

Dude, forget this chick.

In fact, ironically, forgetting about her is probably your best chance of getting her at this point.

Also, read the newbie FAQ. You unfortunately seem to need to. Edit: Game does not get you any one particular girl.

Post: #17

(12-15-2015 08:21 AM)262 Wrote:  Are you still posting about this one girl?

Didn't she say no to a free dinner on your behalf, and in fact explicitly state that she just wanted to be friends? Edit: Thus implying she won't even tolerate being alone with you as one of her orbiters in exchange for free food?

Dude, forget this chick.

In fact, ironically, forgetting about her is probably your best chance of getting her at this point.

Also, read the newbie FAQ. You unfortunately seem to need to. Edit: Game does not get you any one particular girl.

I am ok with forgetting chicks of this kind because this has happened to me quite a lot of times and that's what I always do pre-RVF/game, ignore them completely. I have already lost all respect for her. What I would like to know however, if that's the ideal frame to hold given that I am bound to run into her again. The post before yours has suggested that I should still try some flirting with her while seemingly appearing disinterested.

I was wondering how this can be done because this might help me in the future with other girls.

Post: #18

I think it boils down to the amount of approaches. If you get rejected 2x it sucks. If you get rejected 50x it's like "meh" and you won't remember her in a day or 2. You grow thicker skin. No way around it. I approached over 50 women so far, got maybe 3 numbers out of which none replied to me.
I run mostly night game, a lot of women will sort of ignore me or bail out after short exchange. Others either say they got bfs or "sorry but I'm not looking for something". I only got 1 rude rejection which is sort o laughed off while the girl was still there.

Just gotta approach more man. After a while you won't even think about rejections and will naturally chat to women without worries.

Post: #19

(12-16-2015 04:00 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  I am ok with forgetting chicks of this kind because this has happened to me quite a lot of times and that's what I always do pre-RVF/game, ignore them completely. I have already lost all respect for her. What I would like to know however, if that's the ideal frame to hold given that I am bound to run into her again. The post before yours has suggested that I should still try some flirting with her while seemingly appearing disinterested.

I was wondering how this can be done because this might help me in the future with other girls.

I'd say in your current mindset - which is quite needy - you will not be able to flirt with her without appearing interested.

Only when you've APPROACHED 100 OTHER GIRLS (and likely been rejected by all of them) will you even have a shot at this.

Do not post about this girl or attempt to learn any more from the situation. There is nothing more to learn here.

You will only learn by approaching other girls.

I'm done here.

Post: #20

(12-16-2015 04:14 AM)Hairz Wrote:  I think it boils down to the amount of approaches. If you get rejected 2x it sucks. If you get rejected 50x it's like "meh" and you won't remember her in a day or 2. You grow thicker skin. No way around it. I approached over 50 women so far, got maybe 3 numbers out of which none replied to me.
I run mostly night game, a lot of women will sort of ignore me or bail out after short exchange. Others either say they got bfs or "sorry but I'm not looking for something". I only got 1 rude rejection which is sort o laughed off while the girl was still there.

Just gotta approach more man. After a while you won't even think about rejections and will naturally chat to women without worries.

I totally agree with you but I have the misfortune of seeing this chick bec she lives in my apartment. Time to put on the ice man act I guess. She will then probably do some BS to get the attention again..

Looks like you are a newbie as well. I have done half that amount of approaches and it has been hard. Have you been rolling solo?

Post: #21

Now that chick's friend has started checking me out now that I am ignoring her friend. These girls play the game real hard..

Post: #22

(12-15-2015 04:23 AM)reino341 Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 01:39 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  There is this persian girl in my apartment. She is liberal in outlook and was giving me some big IOIs(or so I thought). Asked her if she wanted to hang out sometime and she said she will think about it. Then about 3hrs later, texted she may not be able to join me but she 'hopes to be able to go out as a group' with her iranian friends sometimes as she wants to 'keep her friendships'.

Am I right in saying this is a rejection and not a shit-test? Havent texted her back since. Now that I am probably going to run into her, how do I interact with her here on?

In such scenarios, what would be the right mental frame of mind to adopt towards such girls?

Sounds like she wants to make you an orbiter.

> Now that I am probably going to run into her, how do I interact with her here on?

Aloof, slightly disinterested. Make her chase but keep flirting.

It has been a few months since this unfortunate debacle above and in this time nothing much happened because we moved to different residences. I did not contact her further after that incident. I can say that I have improved my game a little bit during this period and did other self improvement stuff and have a bit more of that abundance mindset you guys talk about. But now again, I see her nearly everyday because we take some similar classes. She has started giving me IOIs again. But I have kept my cool so far and not approached her since.

So now, am I right in saying that

1. I am not to approach her for any kind of pleasantries or greetings till she approaches first AND suggests hanging out with me alone?

2. After going through some good openers from Bang and the Mystery openers, I am thinking of opening her only when she is with her friend but focus/tease/game the other girl? This is in line with how I open and develop attraction with every girl I meet these days. Do you think this will be productive? Thing is I am currently in a place with a lot of FOB betas so being the 'leader of men' as Mystery puts it can give some confidence but I also dont want to be sucked back into the same mess again.

Thanks guys. Damn.. I can already feel the oneitis creeping back in. It just gets on my nerves that she keeps doing these antiques after consistently ignoring her for the last 6 or 7 months whenever I see her.

Post: #23

Ehh, not really.

1) you've got a "one special girl" problem. She's on a pedestal, and that makes your game attempts weak, because you can't really come at her like you don't care about the outcome.

2) But since I know you're not going to listen to reason, the way you handle the overall approach

You can initiate contact and engage the girl. You then show your value through the engagement. You're funny, smart, you're not going to take her shit, you'll call her on some bullshit, you don't care how she feels about you - you care how you feel about you.

When she starts trying to seek rapport with you that's when you're getting signals that she's attracted. You press your advantage, you DO NOT give her rapport until she invests in the interaction. Until she starts complying with what you want her to do.

Every girl, every time. No exceptions.

Mark of a square is that he laps up every positive response from a chick like a beaten dog.

Once you become predictable, like every other guy she meets, she loses fascination and interest.

Mystery and company talk about this a little bit, but I'm trying to hammer it into new guys because they do not realize how dangerous these chicks are. She's been learning about people and body language since kindergarten, and has been testing guys for alpha prior to puberty.

A weak man bends immediately to her will. He does not have good genes. A strong man, makes her bend to his will

WIA

Post: #24

(07-28-2016 09:15 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  When she starts trying to seek rapport with you that's when you're getting signals that she's attracted. You press your advantage, you DO NOT give her rapport until she invests in the interaction. Until she starts complying with what you want her to do.




WIA

Yeah its probably best to continue ignoring her and treating her like any other girl. The way I see her now, she is quite a game player and very smooth, active and dominant socially. People say IOIs are an indicator that one should approach but sometimes its just for her validation and you never know. I realize that it might be that she just wants to put me back in the friend zone again and feels awkward about the previous incident. That's why as someone new to the game I might not be congruent enough to get into the frame that you mentioned above.

I remember Bang mentions 'never get rejected twice' so I was thinking she should be the one approaching me the next time and suggesting in some form if we should hang out if she is really interested and you know girls do that if they are interested enough. Alternatively, I was also considering interacting while she is in a group setting with her in it while chatting up her friends and only exchanging pleasantries with her but again that means showing very high value to the other girl(s) and there is a risk she might see through it or I might appear needy.

Now assuming she approaches me, a situation I do not expect to happen, what do you mean by 'her investing in the interaction'? She can be very good in agreeing, amplifying and giving rapport to what I have to say but I think it has got to be something more than that. Also, lets assume that you are in my place and all the previous stuff happened to you. What is it that you will want her to agree to do?

Thanks for your reply.

Post: #25

If she's a game player,

- hit on chicks in front of her
- bring hotter chicks into the circle
- introduce her to other guys

This game baby steps stuff won't progress your knowledge or skills.
You're playing this like you don't have infinite lives.

WIA

(07-29-2016 10:10 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 09:15 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  When she starts trying to seek rapport with you that's when you're getting signals that she's attracted. You press your advantage, you DO NOT give her rapport until she invests in the interaction. Until she starts complying with what you want her to do.




WIA

Yeah its probably best to continue ignoring her and treating her like any other girl. The way I see her now, she is quite a game player and very smooth, active and dominant socially. People say IOIs are an indicator that one should approach but sometimes its just for her validation and you never know. I realize that it might be that she just wants to put me back in the friend zone again and feels awkward about the previous incident. That's why as someone new to the game I might not be congruent enough to get into the frame that you mentioned above.

I remember Bang mentions 'never get rejected twice' so I was thinking she should be the one approaching me the next time and suggesting in some form if we should hang out if she is really interested and you know girls do that if they are interested enough. Alternatively, I was also considering interacting while she is in a group setting with her in it while chatting up her friends and only exchanging pleasantries with her but again that means showing very high value to the other girl(s) and there is a risk she might see through it or I might appear needy.

Now assuming she approaches me, a situation I do not expect to happen, what do you mean by 'her investing in the interaction'? She can be very good in agreeing, amplifying and giving rapport to what I have to say but I think it has got to be something more than that. Also, lets assume that you are in my place and all the previous stuff happened to you. What is it that you will want her to agree to do?

Thanks for your reply.