Post: #1

Backstory: Inadvertently, I went without dairy for the most part for a little while. I started eating it again, and got a little bit of acne. I can't say the two are linked, but many people report benefits from cutting out dairy.

Question 1: Is dairy a problem for you? If you cut it out of your diet, what were the effects? Did you try reintroducing it temporarily, and if so, what happened?

Question 2: If dairy is problematic for you, do you find some products are better than others? Eg, is milk worse than cheese? Is whey protein a problem?

Question 3: If you don't use dairy, how would you make a shake for bulking? Your main fats left, coconut and clarified butter, are saturated, and thus solid at room temperature.



I'd like to keep eating dairy, because it's very convenient as a high fat, high protein source. I tend to avoid milk, but I use half-and-half for shakes. I could switch to heavy cream and almond milk to cut down the milk consumption.

Clarified butter should remove any dairy-related problems entirely, and it's great for cooking with, but is solid when cold - I could see it working in a *hot* protein shake though.

I don't eat wheat as it is, except with the occasional meal out. Interested to hear people's experiences with cutting out dairy.

Edit: A while back I tried drinking a gallon of milk a day to bulk. I only got to 3/4 a gallon for two or three days - I had a lot of energy, but my voice went completely hoarse. IMO, going with a mix of cream and protein, plus rice/potatoes on the side is a better bet to cut down on sugar.

Post: #2

I get pretty mucousy when eating dairy in large amounts. Like you I don't eat a ton of it. Some milk with my whey when I'm hurtin for calories, some cottage cheese or greek yogurt when its on sale. I do definitely look and feel much better when I eat it (less bloat + mucous), but its not worth it to cut out the few servings I have a week.

Post: #3

No reason to drink milk.

I still eat Yoghurt because it has a lot more good for you then any bad from the dairy properties you get from it, Its full of good beneficial bacteria; same thing with butter, lots of good stuff that comes from it. I still eat cheese but its now and then.

But here is the catch: The protein in dairy is really hard for the body to digest and on top of it calcium and protein don't get along well and fight with each other in your body. Whey protein is basically a dead product and stripped of everything except for its protein so it does not count, but things like cheese, milk, yoghurt your not getting all that much protein from the product.

Post: #4

I do an inch of half and half in my coffee every morning. I also love just plain whole milk yogurt.
I'll do a slice if cheese here and there on a sandwich as well.

Post: #5

I cut out dairy entirely awhile ago. I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case I am 100% certain that dairy causes acne, as well as mucus and gas.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that most people are lactose intolerant to one degree or another, and that consuming dairy therefore produces an inflammatory response in the body, which results in acne, bowel irritation (gas) and increased production of mucus and phlegm. Some people who are more tolerant of dairy will barely notice these symptoms because the inflammation will not be as severe, while others can hardly tolerate any dairy.

The fucked up thing is that there are tons of people who are actually quite intolerant of dairy who don't even realize it, and continue to stuff their faces with milk, cheese and butter, oblivious to the fact that it's the reason they have acne that never goes away and constant sinus allergies. Their body is essentially in a continual state of inflammation from all the dairy they consume.

I won't lie though, it does kind of suck to not eat dairy. You don't realize how many foods have cheese in them until you do it. I still miss the fuck out of pizza and milkshakes. But you get used to it. It's also good because it forces you to keep your diet very clean and prepare most of your meals yourself. There's an absolute ton of processed food you can't eat anymore because it contains either cheese, milk or whey protein filler. If you're going to stick with a dairy-free diet you will become quite disciplined about it by necessity. You will learn to inspect every ingredient list, because you will find that even the most seemingly innocuous shit will often have dairy ingredients (for example, some flavored almonds I recently bought actually have milk ingredients in the flavoring).

As far as dairy replacements go, for fats I eat a lot of natural peanut butter, almonds, olive oil, avocados and bacon. I cook eggs in the bacon fat, too. Throw olive oil on everything (i.e. potatoes, rice, etc...). I'll also buy fatty ground beef, cook it up in a pan and then mix the fat in with my rice. I don't eat whey, so for a quick protein replacement I recommend canned chicken mixed with hot sauce. It's a little more expensive and inconvenient, but not too bad. For a dairy-free bulking shake you could do almond milk, natural peanut butter, coconut oil, honey and oatmeal. Then just eat a little chicken on the side for the protein.

Post: #6

I'm seeing that cheese, especially aged cheeses, have little to no lactose:

"Lactose
Cheese is often avoided by those who are lactose intolerant, but ripened cheeses like Cheddar contain only about 5% of the lactose found in whole milk, and aged cheeses contain almost none.[35] Nevertheless, people with severe lactose intolerance should avoid eating dairy cheese. As a natural product, the same kind of cheese may contain different amounts of lactose on different occasions, causing unexpected painful reactions."

Wikipedia.

(08-03-2013 10:46 PM)kosko Wrote:  But here is the catch: The protein in dairy is really hard for the body to digest and on top of it calcium and protein don't get along well and fight with each other in your body.

Do you have any links for that?

Scorpion, did you ever try an intermediate stage, where you cut out say, milk but kept cheese? I'm wondering if this will deliver most of the benefits, or if you have to go 'whole hog' and cut it all. You should try clarifying butter - it removes all the milk solids, which should resolve the dairy-related drawbacks of butter. It's also great for cooking with, with a higher smoke point than non-clarified butter.

Post: #7

I do fine with cheeses. Milk bloats me, so I don't drink it.

A lot of people have trouble with dairy and it's a very individual thing.

The same is true of gluten. I am fine with an occasional English muffin, but gluten wrecks other guys.

You should at one point in your life eliminate each of the most common allergens: egg, dairy, soy, wheat, treenuts/peanuts, shellfish. See how you feel.

I can eat cashews without a huge problem, but my nose runs when eating them. So it's kicking off some sort of "intolerance" or "allergy."

Some people have trouble with night shades, too.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=62

Post: #8

I drank raw whole milk for a period of about 1.5 years rather consistently. I can't drink regular milk because I'm lactose intolerant. During this raw milk phase, I felt great actually and never got sick once. However, when I stopped I noticed I was a lot less bloated.

I've actually been thinking about dropping dairy from my diet for a while, maybe when I get back to the US. Out here (Russia) there is not many food choices so cheese and butter become part of my daily diet.

Post: #9

I go through a 1/2 gallon of milk a day sometimes, and eat cheese like a rat fink bastard. Coming back from the DR I thought I had stomach problems from there, but it was the reintroduction of heavy dairy. Things settled back, but I'm trying to cut down, as I probably take in too much. There's just something about sucking down copious amounts of milk for a hangover. I doesn't help, but it tastes good when I feel like shit. And don't get me started on milk and cold pizza for breakfast.

On occasion I get gas from what I'm assuming is the dairy, but can't pinpoint which product is doing it. I may just be taking in too much at a time, as my body is becoming less tolerant. But damn, dairy is the BOMB! I can put cheese and sour cream on just about everything.

Post: #10

I love dairy, can't live w/out it. I don't overindulge in it though. I feel I don't have problems from eating it.

For those that have lactose problems, try cheese and milk made from raw milk. Pasteurizing milk takes all the good enzymes out of it. It's only used so it can be shelf stable for a month.

Trader Joes has raw milk cheese, and the better, higher end specialty shops and farmers' market have raw milk/cream. Best stuff ever.

Post: #11

The only definitive thing I have noticed, is that reintroducing dairy, after cutting it out of my diet, gives me diarrhea.

Post: #12

I'm lactose intolerant, and it's fucked up. I start getting the shits about 30 min after eating most dairy products.

Milk and ice cream are the worst. Cheese isn't so bad because it's usually consumed in less volume.

I get around it somewhat by spending a little more dough for lactaid milk. I think you can also buy lactase drops and pills (the enzyme that digests lactose), but I'm too lazy to carry them around with me. Whey protein is fine. It's only the lactose in the milk that messes me up.

Post: #13

I eat dairy and thus far have had no problems with it. When I was bulking I drank a lot of whole milk. I'll have some cheese on my pasta from time to time if I need calories, and usually add semi skimmed milk to my coffee in the am.

Post: #14

Yes, of course.

Post: #15

I cut out dairy from my diet because it gave me acne on my face, back, etc.

Doing some research online, I found that the hormones in cows' milk creates some sort of hormonal imbalance in human bodies and causes acne breakouts. Maybe not everyone experiences this sensation, but I definitely do.

A few weeks ago, I couldn't resist the urge to eat a few slices of pizza and some sandwiches with cheese. Fast forward to today, my once clear face complexion (for a few months after cutting dairy) has now been experiencing breakouts. I get them mostly along the jawline. Btw, I'm Filipino. Apparently, some races are more susceptible to acne breakouts.

I care about my complexion enough to cut dairy out and replaced it with almond milk, etc.

Post: #16

(08-04-2013 05:50 AM)Prosal Wrote:  Yes, of course.

Prosal, I wonder how you French can eat goat's cheese and goat's milk? One of my friends in France partakes in that on the regular. I have tried it a few times and it is the most vile thing I have ever eaten in my life. It truly must be cultural.

Goat's milk is akin to goat's piss and the cheese makes my whole intestinal system want to do a backflip.

Post: #17

I've cut out, amongst other things, all dairy from my diet some years ago. Like Scorpion says, it makes you very disciplined when buying and making your food, and at first it was difficult because it looked like everything I wanted to eat had something I had cut out, but nowadays I'm so used to the diet I follow that it actually would be difficult to go back to a more normal one.

Post: #18

I was a big dairy eater and it was part of my family culture, being from a big dairy farming region. So I was surprised to find on an elimination diet that I did a lot better without it.

Strongly suggest that you experiment with cutting it out - even if you think you have north European dairy-friendly genes . Only occasional cheese and butter for me now, no milk, cream or yoghurt. No bloating, better digestion all around.

Post: #19

Use Almond Milk(unsweetened) for smoothies.

It's a bit watery so make sure you throw in an avocado.

Post: #20

(08-04-2013 07:37 AM)Moma Wrote:  Prosal, I wonder how you French can eat goat's cheese and goat's milk? One of my friends in France partakes in that on the regular. I have tried it a few times and it is the most vile thing I have ever eaten in my life. It truly must be cultural.

Goat's milk is akin to goat's piss and the cheese makes my whole intestinal system want to do a backflip.

Not only french people eat goat's cheese. You find it also in Spain, Italy, Greece, ect (and even Ireland and UK I think). Personally, I find most goat's cheeses a bit tasteless, especially when they are young, but an aged Rocamadour is delicious.

BTW we have some 400 distinct types of cheese in France -my favorite being Roquefort.

Post: #21

(08-04-2013 11:10 AM)Prosal Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 07:37 AM)Moma Wrote:  Prosal, I wonder how you French can eat goat's cheese and goat's milk? One of my friends in France partakes in that on the regular. I have tried it a few times and it is the most vile thing I have ever eaten in my life. It truly must be cultural.

Goat's milk is akin to goat's piss and the cheese makes my whole intestinal system want to do a backflip.

Not only french people eat goat's cheese. You find it also in Spain, Italy, Greece, ect (and even Ireland and UK I think). Personally, I find most goat's cheeses a bit tasteless, especially when they are young, but an aged Rocamadour is delicious.

BTW we have some 400 distinct types of cheese in France.

Goats milk is easier to digest then Cows. Most countries if they partake in a lot of dairy as part of the diet goat dairy will be more common.

Post: #22

Does having a french lineage give one advanced dairy digestion abilities? I eat lots of cheese and have never been constipated. I love me some garlic herb Brie

Post: #23

I love milk. Maybe it's a Midwest country boy thing. Growing up we always had a glass of milk with dinner, pretty much no matter what it was... Milk and spaghetti anyone?
The thought of drinking milk with dinner repulses a lot of people I know, especially my black friends from the city.

For those of you that are drinking milk, are you slamming whole, 2%, 1%, or skim? I'm a whole milk guy myself. 8 pack abs? No, I'd rather stick my chest and belly out like a dominant silverback.

Post: #24

I eat dairy, but I do it in moderation. That means that if I have a couple of slices of pizza, I'm not having any more cheese that day or--if it was at night--until the next night. Too much cheese fucks up my digestion.

I don't drink milk because I don't like, though I do use a little bit of half and half in my daily coffee. I also use almond milk on cereal or in smoothies.

I use butter in cooking, but it's not something I use a lot.

I've never seen a correlation between dairy consumption in my life and acne, and I've very attuned to the state of skin at any given time. If anything, sleep patterns, poor hydration, or slacking on my skincare regimen have bigger effect. That's not to say diet isn't important in skin health, I just don't see the direct lines between a specific type of food (greasy, chocolate, or dairy) and acne that guys swear by. I'm convinced that mostly myth or psychosomatic.

I think quality of ingredients has more to do it, as does overall diet, rather than a specific things automatically creating zits.

Post: #25

(08-04-2013 12:35 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  If anything, sleep patterns, poor hydration, or slacking on my skincare regimen have bigger effect.

My skin always looks better when constantly staying hydrated, but I see a bigger difference with the infused h2o. Combined with ACV and amino collagens/hyralonic acid, I glow.