Post: #1

I just watched How to hold a conversation like a man, by Nick Sparks. I'm unfamiliar with him but it was very good. It's nearly an hour long. I took notes and figured I would share them with you guys.

He starts off with the disclaimer that body language, eye contact, and facial expressions are far more important than conversation and should be improved first. Once that has been handled, it's time to learn how to converse.


When you start a conversation with a girl, you have two jobs:

1) Get her talking as much as possible.

2) Make her feel good about it.

This is because the male function is to build things. We build skyscrapers, aqueducts, steam ships, computers and international space stations. Therefore, the masculine role is to build the foundation of the conversation. Meanwhile, a woman's role is to try to be at the center of attention. This is because women live within the civilizations that men build. Very Red Pill stuff.


To build that foundation, you need 3 things:

1. Ask questions

2. Teach her how to be present

3. Be fully present yourself


1. Ask questions

The main message he reiterates throughout the video is to be very interested in the other person. This is the most important point that will make you into a great conversationalist. Therefore, his bread and butter is to start a conversation with a question, which shows empathy and concern. His 3 favorites are: Hey, how's it going? What are you guys up to? So, where you from?

Instead of just talking about yourself, be genuinely interested in her. This is important because a lot of guys go up and start trying to figure out what to say to game her, when they should just STFU and listen. Chicks can tell when you're trying to game them, and simply planning your next move like a social robot, and it turns them off.

2. Teach her how to be present

It's good to ask questions at first but then you should stop. Make statements instead, because asking too many questions turns you into an interviewer. Also, she needs to invest to prove she's equally interested in talking to you.

Often, once you stop asking questions there will be a silence in the conversation. It's extremely important that once you've been talking for a while, you let her be the one to break the silence. Don't hide it at all. Give her a look that says, "Well? Aren't you going to say something? Or ask me something back?" Raise your eyebrows, shrug, motion to her as if you're handing her the spotlight, etc. If she fails this test it's a bad sign. He likes to give women 2-3 chances, and if they consistently fail to be the one to break the lull then they have low interest and you should leave (more on that later).

3. Be fully present yourself

Make her feel like you're really listening, instead of just waiting for your turn to talk. Don't just search for keywords to use as ideas while ignoring the rest of what she's saying. They can tell, and it turns them off. Instead, genuinely care about what she's saying as a human being. Figure out a way to look at her and find her genuinely fascinating.

Be like a child, who listens with no agenda. You know how when you tell a child a story, they're completely enchanted? Kids feel stories so intensely, they jump up in surprise when you say, "And then there was a monster!" They gasp, and shit their pants. He calls this the "Overly Empathetic Child," and you literally cannot overdo this. There is no such thing as too much. When a woman can feel that a man is truly paying attention to her, she gets extremely turned on.

He has another technique called "Buffering." It's when you say things like: Really? Is that right? Huh. That's so interesting! This one you don't want to overdo though.

Ultimately, being present has two parts:

1. Relate: What your own personal experiences have in common with hers.

2. Personalize: How she personally felt during a story. Her personal experience. "How did that feel? Did it hurt? How did you react?" etc.

He also suggests that you "follow the trail of breadcrumbs." This means that most of the time, women are hinting at what they want to talk about next. For example, they'll say "it was a good thing but then stuff happened." Duh. Ask her what "stuff" she's referring to. Then follow that. You don't need to pick something she said and filter out the rest. Take it all in and she will talk about what she wants. This is what makes you an excellent conversationalist.



You should know when things are going well: she gives you intense eye contact, fills in the conversational gaps, genuinely smiles at you, and orients her body towards you. Once these are happening, and the conversation is flowing, you need to give her validation for talking to you. This happens by giving her sexual interest. You must reward her with sexual interest or she will leave. Even if she's not looking to hook up, at the very least she wants to flirt, so this is always necessary. Look at her, touch her, get close to her, and say things that display sexual interest.


Simple conversational techniques for escalation:

Playfully challenge them. "No way, you never did that, you're such a liar!"

Playfully disagreeing. "What do you mean you hate it? That's my favorite! Nah, just kidding."

You're [blank]. Use their adjectives back at them. Examples: That's hot. "You're hot." That's stupid. "You're stupid." Etc.

Faux-mance (fake+romance): "OMG that's the hottest, sexiest thing I've ever seen in my life. You're such a diva."

Playful disinterest: "Ugh, that's the worst. Gross. That's horrible." You can even push her away a little, get physical in the process.

If it doesn't work out with the girl, you should do "the warm goodbye." You say, "I gotta get back to my friends, but it's been fun. I've enjoyed talking to you, enjoy the rest of the night, cheers." Basically, you're the one terminating the convo, and it's done in a positive way. This accomplishes 3 things:

First, the door might reopen later. She might realize how hot you are compared to all the other guys there who suck at conversing.

Second, all the other women are watching. If you control the frame, you can leave looking like a boss, and those girls end up looking like ice queens.

Third, you're ending it on your terms. I'm saying goodbye to you. So barring a total blowout, you can't really be rejected.



Do: actually listen, be present, make her fill in gaps, reward her with sexual escalation.

Don't: try to impress her, show an agenda, awkwardly fill in silences, avoid eye contact or being close to her or touching her.

Post: #2

Even though a lot of this may be common knowledge for guys on the RVF, you added value by taking the time to write up these notes, respect.

Post: #3

'So, where are you from?' Vomit. That doesn't show interest in her at all. Because no guy in history has ever actually cared about the answer when he sees a hot girl before he talks to her. It's a well-worn, and ultra boring gambit. That's it.

Strong eye contact and body mirroring and touching is always key.

Thanks for writing this up.

Post: #4

Nick Sparks... the king of blue pill fiction.
Maybe in an ultra subversive troll move his fiction is spun game.

Post: #5

i day game and only 8+ on purpose and these are good tips. i have a strong ramble, better than most, and getting the girl involved is basically the whole point of seduction.

for aggressive players this list makes sense. hubris is a bitch

Post: #6

How do you become genuinely interested in a girl when you're only interested in fucking her?

When you find women in general to be uninteresting?
When you find the hottest ones the most tedious to talk to?

How do I *telegraph* genuine interest when I see her next to a chick with a big chest, one with a phat ass, or one in some impossibly tall heels and short mini skirt.

When my mind is running her through some sort of Nacho Vidal sequence....

This is my general criticism of blue pill pick up.

They don't at all take into account what's going on in a guys brain and his motivations (and how that reflects in his body language, words, and mannerisms)

The only reason I often want to talk to a girl is because of the way she fills out her clothing. That's the dumbest and most superficial reason to talk to someone, but probably the most honest and most common.

"Your body is making the deepest part of me respond. And as a result, I want to befriend you and fuck you. "

I'm hoping to say the right combinations of words and do the right things in sequence so as to make that happen. If I am successful, then and only then would I actually start to consider you as a person. We may be great friends, great lovers, in a relationship, or it could just end abruptly cause I realize that aside from your physical nature, you're not a good human being I want in my life.

^^That's the reality.

Who's writing about approaching or having a conversation with a sex kitten with that the average player's intentions in mind?

WIA

Post: #7

(08-28-2013 01:08 AM)BecomingMachine Wrote:  Nick Sparks... the king of blue pill fiction.
Maybe in an ultra subversive troll move his fiction is spun game.

What are talking about? Just about everything he said is spot on, based on my experience.

A lot of new trolls showing up today.. I hope you aren't one of them.

---

They should this guy do a TED talk.

Post: #8

(08-28-2013 01:06 AM)horn Wrote:  'So, where are you from?' Vomit. That doesn't show interest in her at all. Because no guy in history has ever actually cared about the answer when he sees a hot girl before he talks to her. It's a well-worn, and ultra boring gambit. That's it.

Strong eye contact and body mirroring and touching is always key.

Thanks for writing this up.

I agree that it's not challenging enough. Might be better to tell a girl "why did you come here (city)"

Post: #9

Torpedo of truth from WIA. I thought exactly the same thing when I read the OPs post.

Also especially hot, younger chicks (the ones we want to bang) don't have experienced that much in life to tell grand interesting stories about themselves that will captivate your interest. Most women are bad conversationalists themselves as far as my experience goes, and basically you have to guide her through the whole convo.

Also a point that isn't spoken of is exactly that you should guide the convo onto relevant topics and away from boring ones.

Post: #10

(08-28-2013 07:18 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  How do you become genuinely interested in a girl when you're only interested in fucking her?

When you find women in general to be uninteresting?
When you find the hottest ones the most tedious to talk to?

How do I *telegraph* genuine interest when I see her next to a chick with a big chest, one with a phat ass, or one in some impossibly tall heels and short mini skirt.

When my mind is running her through some sort of Nacho Vidal sequence....

This is my general criticism of blue pill pick up.

They don't at all take into account what's going on in a guys brain and his motivations (and how that reflects in his body language, words, and mannerisms)

The only reason I often want to talk to a girl is because of the way she fills out her clothing. That's the dumbest and most superficial reason to talk to someone, but probably the most honest and most common.

"Your body is making the deepest part of me respond. And as a result, I want to befriend you and fuck you. "

I'm hoping to say the right combinations of words and do the right things in sequence so as to make that happen. If I am successful, then and only then would I actually start to consider you as a person. We may be great friends, great lovers, in a relationship, or it could just end abruptly cause I realize that aside from your physical nature, you're not a good human being I want in my life.

^^That's the reality.

Who's writing about approaching or having a conversation with a sex kitten with that the average player's intentions in mind?

WIA

Roosh uses inirect techniques. Re you implying that he's bluepill?

Post: #11

(08-28-2013 01:06 AM)horn Wrote:  'So, where are you from?' Vomit. That doesn't show interest in her at all. Because no guy in history has ever actually cared about the answer when he sees a hot girl before he talks to her. It's a well-worn, and ultra boring gambit. That's it.

Strong eye contact and body mirroring and touching is always key.

Thanks for writing this up.

Disagree, I walk up to girls and say

Me- I was standing over there and was trying to figure out where you are from....pause* Russia?
Girl- blah blah blah. Yea.
Me- Drop city names from Russia- Moscow/St Petersburg/Novo, Tomsk (thanks slubu).
Girl- omg, have you been there before!!!!
Me- blah blah blah

Post: #12

@ soup

Neither me nor the OP is talking about direct or indirect.

My comment focuses on genuine interest, which smacks me as a blue pill/woman centric view of the world. It neglects the practical issue of faking real interest. And implies that you can't get a chick if you're not interested in what she says.

In general the be interested approach is naive, only a step above joking dancing monkeys and blowhard braggarts.

As others have said, you can play the game at this superficial level just fine. But there those early conversations can be much more. I'll expand when I'm on my pc.

Bang is pill agnostic, imo. It's primarily strategy and tactics, not so much overarching world view. But I haven't read it in awhile. And I'm sure it was written well before the red pill was the concept it is now.

WIA

Post: #13

WIA are you talking about a Russell Brand like approach

He never asks women any of these questions, very aggressive and gets straight to talking about fucking them immediately. They typically accept his frame

Post: #14

(08-28-2013 03:51 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  @ soup

Neither me nor the OP is talking about direct or indirect.

My comment focuses on genuine interest, which smacks me as a blue pill/woman centric view of the world. It neglects the practical issue of faking real interest. And implies that you can't get a chick if you're not interested in what she says.

In general the be interested approach is naive, only a step above joking dancing monkeys and blowhard braggarts.

As others have said, you can play the game at this superficial level just fine. But there those early conversations can be much more. I'll expand when I'm on my pc.

Bang is pill agnostic, imo. It's primarily strategy and tactics, not so much overarching world view. But I haven't read it in awhile. And I'm sure it was written well before the red pill was the concept it is now.

WIA

I think that sparks is talking about coming off as congruent. Why talk to a girl at all? Why not just go caveman and grab anything that gets you hard.

Direct, or indirect, if you are going to talk to a girl you have to throw yourself into the conversation. This doesn't have to feigning interest, but you definitely have to be present.

Post: #15

This is all well and good, but I think it neglects the need for a guy to be interesting in his own right.

Intriguing. Making 'salty' statements that make her ask for more details, even in spite of herself.

Mentioning travels and the occasional funny stories that accompany.


At some point, many chicks want to get a feel for the guy's substance. This is best after mutual appeal is ongoing, but can't be entirely neglected. Deep down chicks are tired of their own vapid bullshit and want a dude whose life is much bigger than hers.

Post: #16

(08-28-2013 03:39 PM)DVY Wrote:  

(08-28-2013 01:06 AM)horn Wrote:  'So, where are you from?' Vomit. That doesn't show interest in her at all. Because no guy in history has ever actually cared about the answer when he sees a hot girl before he talks to her. It's a well-worn, and ultra boring gambit. That's it.

Strong eye contact and body mirroring and touching is always key.

Thanks for writing this up.

Disagree, I walk up to girls and say

Me- I was standing over there and was trying to figure out where you are from....

But you don't actually care if she's from Tomsk vs Novosibirsk, do you? You care about: how hot she is, will she sleep with you, is she fun and or interesting, does she act feminine/sexy, is she SNL material, can I pawn her, what kinks does she have, will she bring a friend for a 3-way, does she drink/drugs/whatever.

Yes, I get the fact that it's *an opener* as previously stated. But let's not pretend you honestly care.

'are you from Russia'
"No, I'm from Finland.'
....
'I've been to Helsinki.'
"I live in Vaasa."

Nobody cares this Finlandic HB9 [let's say] is from Vaasa. Unless you're going there, have family there, want to work there, or own a travel business where people want to go to Vaasa, it's less than zero relevance to your interest in the girl.

Post: #17

Honestly, this stuff is not even specific to pickup. It's about being a good conversationalist in general, of which picking up is merely a subset. If you talk about yourself and ignore the other person you will come off like a douche. Be a good listener. That's what he's saying in a nutshell.

It's also very helpful for introverts like myself, who often find ourselves standing in front of a girl with nothing to talk about at that moment. Yes, we exist, and no, telling us to "stop being introverted and be extroverted" doesn't work.

Quote:How do you become genuinely interested in a girl when you're only interested in fucking her?

WIA, don't you find people interesting? Don't you find everything interesting? Even the dumbest bitchy broad in a bar is made up of ~120 trillion cells (Carl Sagan mode: engaged). Can't you find something interesting in what she's saying? Can't you connect with her?

I don't mean to sound like a chick for a sec but it's true, if you're literally only interested in a woman's body then you might as well get a hooker or blowup doll. I mean, you have to like a girl in order for her to be worth pursuing. That's why Roosh travels.

Post: #18

(08-28-2013 08:21 PM)daygamebrah Wrote:  WIA, don't you find people interesting? Don't you find everything interesting? Even the dumbest bitchy broad in a bar is made up of ~120 trillion cells (Carl Sagan mode: engaged). Can't you find something interesting in what she's saying? Can't you connect with her?

Most young American girls care only about themselves and stupid shit like celebrity culture. I don't think many of us want to connect with these kinds of girls we just want to fuck them and put up with as little of their bullshit as possible.

Post: #19

(08-28-2013 09:08 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

(08-28-2013 08:21 PM)daygamebrah Wrote:  WIA, don't you find people interesting? Don't you find everything interesting? Even the dumbest bitchy broad in a bar is made up of ~120 trillion cells (Carl Sagan mode: engaged). Can't you find something interesting in what she's saying? Can't you connect with her?

Most young American girls care only about themselves and stupid shit like celebrity culture. I don't think many of us want to connect with these kinds of girls we just want to fuck them and put up with as little of their bullshit as possible.

Yes but the better you listen, the less bullshit of theirs you will needs to put up with to get the bang. If they feel a connection right away, they are more likely to bang right away.

I find sand, light-bulbs, and blades of grass interesting. It's going back to that child-like wonder he talks about. If you can't find anything interesting in a living breathing human being except literally her body then how could you possibly expect to bang her? Even if you could, why bother putting in so much work? Even the worst feminist cunt can be interesting if you study her with the frame that she's a freak who belongs in a zoo... and take interest and study in the creature.

I mean, people study fruit flies and find them interesting. Just saying.

Post: #20

(08-28-2013 04:03 PM)Valhalla Wrote:  WIA are you talking about a Russell Brand like approach

He never asks women any of these questions, very aggressive and gets straight to talking about fucking them immediately. They typically accept his frame

No, I'm talking about something different.

There are dozens of ways to approach "the approach".
Millions of ways to have a conversation.

I'm taking issue with this "take a genuine interest" in a stranger.

You're feigning a genuine interest, at best.

WIA

Post: #21

redacted

Post: #22

Quote:You're interested in fucking the bitch. (not the dog)