Post: #1

Roosh's article today rang a tune with me. Eye contact is by far the most important thing ever and careful observation can help us wade through the non-responsive and flakers for the ones that are interested.

I've noticed that when a girl is into me she'll give me a stare. I don't really know what it is, but when I get this look my gut reaction to it is, "Approach approach approach". Every time I get that gut reaction I have scored a notch.

These doe eyes so to speak, are generally pretty big and have a short of twinkle in it. It's almost like looking into a mirror when I was younger and I would get awe struck by a really attractive girl. Deer in headlights.

Now, when I see this I know to jump on the opportunity as that is when she is the most interested in me approaching.

Ironically, the types of girls that do this to me tend to be of a similar phenotype. I can't put words on it, but they all have similar traits of other women i've been with.

The point of this story is, I hate getting rejected, I don't like wasting time, and it caters to my lazy nature. Once I started mastering what that look, "Look" liked, I started getting more notches and lower failure rates than the classic talk to 100 girls and see which one bites.

As much as i'd like to believe that with the right combination of words and style I can get with any girl there is something more complicated at work.

Post: #2

Oddly enough, this doesn't match my experience. Most eye-contact girls flat out reject me, many of them have been blowouts during my early game years.

I don't even bother with eye-contact because it means nothing in my world.

I think eye-contact is also misleading if you're a good looking guy. I hate to brag, but when I walk in a room lots of people turn heads and look at me. That doesn't mean they want to bang. They just like to look at you.

Post: #3

(09-04-2013 12:39 PM)Waffles Wrote:  I agree 100%. No matter how many notches you have, a rejection will always hurt. Which is why cold approaches are always a huge risk. I ONLY approach a girl if she gave me the look. A lot of times I don't even approach but just post up next to her to see if she does it a couple more times to the point where she's damn near approaching me herself. This doesn't happen as often but it's a guaranteed notch.

You have to change this thinking.

Who gives a f*ck if she rejects you?

It's her loss.

Post: #4

(09-04-2013 03:59 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Oddly enough, this doesn't match my experience. Most eye-contact girls flat out reject me, many of them have been blowouts during my early game years.

I don't even bother with eye-contact because it means nothing in my world.

I think eye-contact is also misleading if you're a good looking guy. I hate to brag, but when I walk in a room lots of people turn heads and look at me. That doesn't mean they want to bang. They just like to look at you.

I get eyefucked a lot too and you're right about that, but I think the OP is onto something here

I've noticed there's two kinds of looks- what you might call the look of aesthetic appreciation, which is not an approach invitation, and the other type which used to be called the "come hither" look which is.

It doesn't necessarily have to do with how long they look at you or how frequently, but with the quality of the look, which is impossible to describe in words.

But to me eye contact is only one factor; I also look at her body language, her jewelry, especially her earrings, how many girls she's with and how she is interacting with them and how much she's drinking. If the other factors look good I'll approach in the absence of eye contact. A little while back a got a cold approach SNL from a girl I approached from behind who never even saw me but I identified her as being open to an SNL from other factors. A girl in a bachelorette party can stare at me all night and I'm not going to approach her

Post: #5

I think Roosh drew the distinction between the US and abroad for a reason in that post. Consider this. I gaffed an 8.5 one night by somewhat rudely interrupting her conversation with her bff sitting in a booth in a bar. Once I had her accompanying me for the next 1.5 hours at the bar, smoking, etc.., I paraded her around enough to have another 8 walk up to me after seeing me with this slightly better looking girl than her and drop her jaw when I walked by and asked; "Holy shit who the hell are you...?" There were a few others that night eyeing me as well after the first was on the hook.

I would have worked that 2nd girl right into the parking lot for an against-the-wall pounding but her amazement-statement occurred in sight of my initial target. I stuck with the initial target and banged her later that week.

Case in point, had I waited for eye contact, not only would I have not bagged nearly a nine, I would have likely had zero options instead of the pick of the crop for that bar. If you see a sexy woman, approach her at will...

Post: #6

(09-04-2013 10:00 PM)Ingocnito Wrote:  Case in point, had I waited for eye contact, not only would I have not bagged nearly a nine, I would have likely had zero options instead of the pick of the crop for that bar. If you see a sexy woman, approach her at will...

Good tactical idea-- approaching one helps you get all of them...

Post: #7

If you wait for a special 'twinkle' eye-contact, you might very well have better success during your approaches.

You will also likely approach much less, and I think have much less success overall.

When a girl gives me eyes more than once, I will usually go talk to her because I can tell she's probably sexually attracted to me. But that doesn't happen all the time, and I've had a ton (probably most) of my success come from approaching girls who were neither looking at me, nor anticipating my approach.

Why not put yourself out there and face possible rejection? Taking risks and getting rejected is what will ultimately make you improve yourself, and help you get higher quality women.

If you only rely on eye-contact when approaching, you will be missing out on a lot of girls, and a ton of possible notches.

Post: #8

In a nutshell, it's cool to have eye contact but it's not required. After all it's the follow through that is important. Girls often look at well groomed guys cause they stand out from crowd aesthetically but have no actual intentions of meeting them. In the end you never know until you find out for yourself.

Post: #9

I agree with everyone saying that the American preference for not waiting for female go-ahead is the key to game.

It's why, all things considered, we've got better game than everyone else.



Stepping up to a girl sight unseen is the 1st major hurdle in developing your game.

And often times, if you've really been handling your business, she's SEEN YOU, but you haven't seen her see you.

WIA

Post: #10

(09-05-2013 07:31 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  It's why, all things considered, we've got better game than everyone else.

I guess that lies in the eye of the beholder... I know that this includes many stereotypes, but still I would say that if you asked a statistical significant sample size of women there would be other nationalities that are recognized for the game of men - my guess would be French, Spanish, Italian...
And I am not talking about adolescent mediterranian macho behaviour, but men full of savoir-vivre, with style, looks, culture, money and self-confidence... Just my very general comment on that...

Post: #11

Roosh's post was spot on, from my experiences in Europe.

Think of it like sales. Eye contact = warm lead, no eye contact = cold call. Your chances will obviously be higher if she shows initial interest.

Post: #12

I think eye contact is a tool, but I wouldn't base my approach strategy on it if I actively wanted to get laid. It's also a guide if a particular venue is good or not.

Even in Europe, I don't wait for eye contact. I've been approaching without it for too long that I know I don't need it to succeed.

Post: #13

(09-05-2013 09:08 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  Roosh's post was spot on, from my experiences in Europe.

Think of it like sales. Eye contact = warm lead, no eye contact = cold call. Your chances will obviously be higher if she shows initial interest.

Agreed, dating is a lot like sales.

I was never good at a cold call. Ironically, my one friend who does door to door sales is an absolute lady killer. To him it's a numbers game, approach, approach, approach.

I'll honestly say it, i sometimes have bursts of energy where i can do that. However, if i'm focused on other things in my life i don't put forth the energy and risk.

A good thought puzzle for sure. Eye contact, while not important all of the time, can help you find the ones that are interested if you're paying attention.

American girls do give eye contact, but you have to be watchful for it. Very subtle.

Post: #14

This guy Scotty talks about how to implement eye contact with street game:

Post: #15

Of course eye language is important. We can communicate confidence or fear thru our eyes.

We can see lust or disgust.

I like when a girl looks at me like I am a piece of meat and she is a hungry dog.

Eye contact is most important during those crucial moments early in the approach. This is where she will often look into your eyes subconsciously probing for weakness. Your eyes must remain as strong as your frame.

(09-04-2013 12:39 PM)Waffles Wrote:  No matter how many notches you have, a rejection will always hurt.

Rejections do not hurt me and in fact they often give me power as I channel the emotional energy into momentum.

Post: #16

(09-05-2013 09:08 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  Roosh's post was spot on, from my experiences in Europe.

Think of it like sales. Eye contact = warm lead, no eye contact = cold call. Your chances will obviously be higher if she shows initial interest.

I echo this, 100%.

Post: #17

(09-08-2013 04:18 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Of course eye language is important. We can communicate confidence or fear thru our eyes.

We can see lust or disgust.

I like when a girl looks at me like I am a piece of meat and she is a hungry dog.

Eye contact is most important during those crucial moments early in the approach. This is where she will often look into your eyes subconsciously probing for weakness. Your eyes must remain as strong as your frame.

(09-04-2013 12:39 PM)Waffles Wrote:  No matter how many notches you have, a rejection will always hurt.

Rejections do not hurt me and in fact they often give me power as I channel the emotional energy into momentum.

"I don't like when dudes looks at me like I am a piece of meat and they're hungry dogs."

Lolz because i had the misfortune of riding my bicycle shirtless this evening after a game through the Dupont Circle area of Dork Central (DC).

Post: #18

Yeah it's a great tool over here though it's not a prerequisite for an approach. It just means when you do approach it gives a sense of you not being a complete stranger, that there's already been an interaction, not a verbal one but an interaction.

Post: #19

Really hot/high value girls with a little gang of admirers will rarely give you eye contact. They just avoid eye contact with most anyone they do not know in public. They don't want to attract unwanted attention outside of their social circle, which from their perspective/likely what they normally experience is likely to be "less cool"

Once I got big eyes from a 9.7, with her gang of ordinary girlfriends, I just went up to her and introduced myself and it was like slipping off a brick wall. Then I got angry with her and said "you were just looking at me!" like some emotional child, she jumps a little and asks me for my name, but the iphone wall remains. You have no leeway at all to appear as anything than higher value than her, as that is generally what she is expecting/wants - is socially acceptable for her to accept.

But the funny thing, after I slid off her wall, both her friends (7's at best) are all curious and start asking me questions! But at the time, I had mini-oneitis and just walked off in a huff!

I have seen this out there before, girls who recognise the alpha female, and then go for what she rejects, almost a bit like a scavenger! Problem is for me, I get stuck on the alpha female and she is "hard". Normally, the females in the room, sure as hell know who she is. You cannot fail by approaching her, it shows you have balls. Point is, there are other guys who want her too, and you are pitting yourself against them by approaching her in many respects as well. Often times, she is more feared than the alpha male with big muscles, as she makes grown men nervous and jealous. One 8.7 said to me once, that only extremely wealthy men approach her!

So if you go for her (after having warmed up in some other venue preferebly, so you in the zone), all the other females will recognise your level of entitlement, you have displayed a high value of entitlement. If you go the other way, and approach 4's and work your way up, I wouldn't imagine it would go so well.