Post: #1

Were they significantly more effective than the typical "natural" or a guy who had to study game and got good?

I saw a very influential coach in the industry gaming a few weeks ago in my city. His game was much more flashy and versatile compared to naturals, but it didn't rank much higher in terms of effectiveness.

Post: #2

No but I have seen a bunch of guys run game that I can only attribute to the typical PUA super structured game. It made me cringe.

Post: #3

(09-10-2013 07:52 PM)Altair Wrote:  Were they significantly more effective than the typical "natural" or a guy who had to study game and got good?

I saw a very influential coach in the industry gaming a few weeks ago in my city. His game was much more flashy and versatile compared to naturals, but it didn't rank much higher in terms of effectiveness.

I ran into a "lair".

The visual bait, the awkward openings...

In terms of naturals, looking back on it, I knew a bunch of cats that managed to fuck top shelf bitches.

They ran the gamut from skinny Asian dudes, obnoxious and pestering Indian dudes, sneaky Mexicans, G' looking broughams, pot belly white dudes, male models, loud mouths, rock and rollers, hippies, and miscreants. Routinely these horny mf'ers would link up with hot and very fuckable chicks. Including the skinny teenage body blondes and brunettes that you dudes seem to lust after. (although I'm turning the page on that one myself)

I've heard and seen so much natural game that I know when I see a keyboard jockey say some shit about "sexual market place value" I KNOW HE'S NOT FUCKING.

That whole, a bitch knows who's she's gonna fuck with in 5 seconds, 30 seconds, all that nonsense - any dude spouting that kind of nonsense is an idiot.

Or what do you people say, "he has limiting beliefs".

Even "structured dating" game is rarely textbook.

Regular natural game is primarily persistence. It's not even target selection, or pre-selection by the target.

But it's a knowledgeable persistence. It's not just hammering away, but hammering and then seeing the weak spots, and hammering there.

I gotta homeboy that's probably a legit sex addict. 5 kids, 4 baby mamas, 3 ex-wives, routinely pays for hookers, and will talk to anything in a skirt. He needs to fuck on a regular basis. I've seen him chat up a variety of bitches. You name it, he's hollered. Skinny blonde fitness chicks, phat ass sistas, fresh off the boat asians - don't matter, he needs to get his dick wet. And if you heard him drop the most beta saccharine sweet shit, you'd flip your fucking lid.

It works. It works cause he's paying attention to a chick, and that's what she really wants. Not on some superficial, sup bitch, but on some "real genuine interest". But the only thing he's interested in is fucking a bitch. He talks to them super sweet, they open up, and he just pushes relentlessly.

He believes his shit so much, that she believes it.

But if you were to listen, you'd try to get banned from the forum cause you'd turn into a white knight.

Now as much as i've seen, as much as I try to live in a world of abundance, I still think these lizards are crazy, and hypergamy is real.

The real next step after taking the red pill (where you realize the world is fucked) - is moving the past the need to get respect from these lizards you sink your meat into.

She is gonna be who's she's gonna be.

What she does can not affect you.

*ain't none of this really got to do with your question though*

WIA

Post: #4

i've seen two coaches in the field. the first was jesse from simple pick up. i saw him with a client at a half-empty club last summer. i observed from afar for about 10 minutes. he did about 2 approaches that did not take.

the second was mystery in may of this year. he was out celebrating something with his venusian arts crew and his latest gf. he spent his night basking in the attention of male admirers and fans. i chatted with him for a bit. he's nuts lol.

Post: #5

(09-12-2013 11:12 AM)bodmon Wrote:  i've seen two coaches in the field. the first was jesse from simple pick up. i saw him with a client at a half-empty club last summer. i observed from afar for about 10 minutes. he did about 2 approaches that did not take.

the second was mystery in may of this year. he was out celebrating something with his venusian arts crew and his latest gf. he spent his night basking in the attention of male admirers and fans. i chatted with him for a bit. he's nuts lol.

I'd love to see Mystery in action just to measure how good is the community's top dog. I got a chance to see his most notorious pupil in action and wasn't too impressed. It made me think the community largely embellishes its leaders game

Post: #6

@WIA can you give us an example of his game and the things he says.

I'm always looking to learn something new

Post: #7

I've seen a couple of guys from an American company in Oxford Street before. Something like "love systems", I can't remember.

Anyway, I went to talk to him after I noticed what he was doing. Walked up to him and said "excuse me?" And he immediately shot me down: "no!"

"What do you mean 'no?'"

"No"

Guy was a dick and eventually got round to telling me what's going on after I gamed him, ha! Told him I've seen some stuff online and wanted to get into it and he gave me the website, and said a course for the weekend was 2 or 3 THOUSAND dollars. It was over a year ago so I can't remember the name of it.

Anyway, they looked like frauds to me. The one I spoke to was in his mid to late 30s, short, yellow teeth, thin and receded shit blonde hair, a massive beer belly, a shitty stripey shirt and a superiority complex. The other guy with him was tall, had a massive mohawk and was wearing ridiculous pink bracelets and necklaces obviously doing the whole "peacock" bullshit.

You'd have to pay me to listen to their advice.

Post: #8

(09-10-2013 09:22 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  No but I have seen a bunch of guys run game that I can only attribute to the typical PUA super structured game. It made me cringe.

Same here. It was painful to watch, but watch I did.

And not to hate on the guys, I mean they were out there putting in the work, but the way they psyched eachother up, regrouped after an approach, huddled together was just odd.

And as MattC said, they were just generally anti social misfits. I thought that if this "PUA" thing doesnt pan out for them, they are lost. Those types of social skills are a surefire way to get fired, beat, cheated and otherwise left for dead by those with real world swagger and an upbeat friendly persona.

Post: #9

I've seen 3 real life PUA's, 1 was coaching. It was like watching two bullet trains, filled with puppies and babies, in a head on collision on a mountain pass, then tumbling down in a fiery blaze, being attacked by the Pterodactyls nested in the cliffs below.

Post: #10

Have hung out with Mystery and Matador quite a few times, a few years ago, during the height of their success, as I mentioned in another thread.

Not going to talk shit, but it was nothing special. To put it bluntly: My pull rate destroyed theirs and I wasn't wearing a fuzzy hat or a leather vest.

Post: #11

(09-12-2013 03:16 PM)Valhalla Wrote:  @WIA can you give us an example of his game and the things he says.

I'm always looking to learn something new

Rolling with my squad.
We were at some tourist restaurant.

He spots the hostess.

"Hey sweetness, lemme talk to you" while we were *leaving* the joint. (i'm pretty sure he played sick one night so he could get the hotel room to himself, cause he saw some chicks @ the hotel bar)

And then he'd ask obvious questions that she can answer.

"what are the good dishes"
"you live around here"
"what else is good"
"you looking kinda sweet"

But he's totally "congruent" with it. He's a short stocky dude, prolly 5'8'. Fearless and disgustingly sweet.

I'm watching her reactions, and at first she's incredulous, and then she warms up. Had to be at least 12 years his junior.

And as we were waiting in the car, he finally came out with a phone #, from a chick that we'll probably never see again.

He's a small town kinda dude, and he was running small town game on a small town chick. So there's that in this instance.

But I've seen him basically play the fool and ask easy to answer questions FROM EVERYBODY, he makes everyone around him feel smart.

I see through the shit, cause i'm like, dude, you know the answer to your fucking question, don't ask me any bullshit. But I don't like that feeling of being smarter than everyone in the room. That usually means i'm in the wrong room.

Everyone else gets disarmed. I don't know how much of it is calculated, probably very little given that he's a natural and just talks to girls that pass his boner test, but it's constant and consistent and with guys, girls, old people, kids...et cetera. He's a people person, and uses that skill to get his dick wet.

Not my kinda game at all, but it works exceedingly well.

I've seen dudes send drinks to bitches across the bar, and then recover from that "beta" move. Gorilla pimping, where a dude will just grab a chick's arm. Cat Calls that turn into phone #'s and turn into sex....

It's kind of a fallacy that you need high levels of complication to fuck regularly.

But that really complicated stuff, like jealousy threads and cat string theory, projecting asshole body language, spinning chicks out of nowhere... - that shit works too.

I"ve said this before, but you can skin a cat many ways. You can use styles and stories that aren't your own, provided that you know how they work, and you can carry it off.

Chicks are none the wiser. If chicks really could read minds, there'd never be a rape or a serial killing ever.

Instead, they look for cues, and when the chicks find those cues, they spread their legs.

The correct combination unlocks the placenta © Ras Kass.

Our job as players is to learn those universal cues, the knowledge behind them, and then tailor our approaches based on our own style and down to the particular girl.

And again, even after you fuck them, fuck them thoroughly, IMO, they still don't belong to you, you can't possess them. You can only trust them to be who they are.

Perhaps my attitude will change with age, but i've met lots of sweet-marriageable girls that turn into the narcissistic lizards that we all despise.

You tell them no, but they want the answer to be yes...and until you get control of the conversation - her attacks will keep coming. The nags don't stop, the emotional manipulation is unconscious and conscious.

In hip hop terms, she's testing your G, for pick up artists - this is the Deida alpha testing thing.

I just don't know if any girl is worth putting up with that kinda burden. constantly needy, always got to have something, you've always got to provide it, or out smart her.

Man, i'm digressing like mf'er today.

WIA

Post: #12

Yes, most professional coaches are more effective, but not for the reasons you might think.

Back in the day I befriended and went out with many of the commercial "gurus". This was a year or so before The Game was released, along with the height of the seduction community. I tagged along as an informal coach on a paid few workshops. Talk about pressure to perform.

I discovered that the act of approaching in front of *paying students* really forces you to rise to the occasion, and make your very best approaches. Best approaches = greater likelihood of success.

You can use this as a psychological trick for yourself. Imagine that men have literally just paid you thousands of dollars to show them how it's done. Now it's time to deliver on that promise.

Post: #13

(09-12-2013 05:31 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  Have hung out with Mystery and Matador quite a few times, a few years ago, during the height of their success, as I mentioned in another thread.

Not going to talk shit, but it was nothing special. To put it bluntly: My pull rate destroyed theirs and I wasn't wearing a fuzzy hat or a leather vest.

It's bullshit that you diss the top PUA gurus in the game like that but forget to add in the extremely important fact that you are a top Hollywood nightclub promoter. You have social circle fame and these girls will use you and fuck you just so they can fuck Kim Kardashian's ex boyfriend. You have no game, they are just using you. They don't even like you. So you dogging on the most legitimate PUAs out there is bullshit and misleading.
















Annnnnndddd we know you were wearing ski goggles at night.

Post: #14

Watched Julien and his wings roll in a local night club. Observed him game a particular chick and by an accident saw them walk together outside later after the club had closed.

I had no doubt Julien is legit but nonetheless it was cool to witness his game first-hand.

As for his game in detail from what I can tell, it wasn't particularly flashy. He just had a rock solid frame in general and you could read the verbal pushes and pulls from their body language. And seriously, the guy just wouldn't stop moving. There wasn't a moment where he would be standing either alone or with his wings waiting for a girl to jump on his dick. That aspect of his game was particularly impressive and I think explains his success. Over a longer period of time you'll have so much more opportunities to learn how to manage specific situations if you develop the habit of taking action all the time.

Post: #15

Hung out with Johnny Soporno
Game wise, he was alright.

Some of his philosophies we'd consider beta but he definately got the job done.

...also think he has a bit a thing about guys with big dicks as he made non contextual, off handed comments along the lines of "size queens aren't getting pleasure but are getting high off of the pain" :/ .

Post: #16

I know a guy on 180ish lays. Shit coach, takes a few clients. Better player than coach.

High volume, strong internals. Modus operandi is usually to tap girl on the shoulder and get her reactive. He is always unreactive, nothing will phase him.

Usually gets digits or facebook rather than go for ONS, bangs on date which is always nearby his apartment.

He doesn't really work, plays online poker. Just hits on girls: street, day, night. Works as a promoter too at high end club but gets nothing from there.

Gets Facebook death threats from brothers and boyfriends of girls he hits on. Usually laughs at them.

Post: #17

I know another guy around 150ish. More calibrated, very smooth, speaks French. Strong masculine polarity.

Excellent coach, constantly booked out throughout year.

His workshop:

• 6 infield night sessions (you’re also welcome to come along some other nights as shadow so that you build up a social circle)
• 12 infield day sessions
• 6 theory sessions
• A two part style consultation
• A speed dating session, with coaching
• Audio recording for your conversation improvement
• Inner game analysis and exercises
• 27 / 7 access to me for as much help as you want
• Ongoing support after the workshop (I have clients from years ago still hitting me up for tips and catch ups)

That's $2900. Excellent reviews though. Real deal.

Post: #18

Krauser and the whole old Rock Solid Game crew. Not sure if Krauser still coaches but they were the best value for money pick up guys in London. The whole crew were the real deal, it was something like £500 for a weekend and you'd be hanging out with 8-10 different guys all teaching you different things from night game to day game to text game.

Post: #19

(09-13-2013 08:35 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  I know a guy on 180ish lays. Shit coach, takes a few clients. Better player than coach.

High volume, strong internals. Modus operandi is usually to tap girl on the shoulder and get her reactive. He is always unreactive, nothing will phase him.

Usually gets digits or facebook rather than go for ONS, bangs on date which is always nearby his apartment.

He doesn't really work, plays online poker. Just hits on girls: street, day, night. Works as a promoter too at high end club but gets nothing from there.

Gets Facebook death threats from brothers and boyfriends of girls he hits on. Usually laughs at them.

I wonder how many lays some of these PUA coaches even have? I can imagine Vince Kelvin and Mehow probably have a shit load of lays, but most of them from fucking guys. Whoever is impressed by either of these guys must have some pretty severe social issues.

I've got around 100 lays at 28 years old, with a 6 year relationship in there fucking up my numbers. I'd never want to be a coach, but even if I did, I don't feel 100 is that impressive.

I guess compared to the types of dudes who would pay for some of these $2-3k PUA bootcamps, that is about 100x more pussy than they've ever gotten though.

Post: #20

(09-13-2013 07:00 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(09-12-2013 05:31 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  Have hung out with Mystery and Matador quite a few times, a few years ago, during the height of their success, as I mentioned in another thread.

Not going to talk shit, but it was nothing special. To put it bluntly: My pull rate destroyed theirs and I wasn't wearing a fuzzy hat or a leather vest.

It's bullshit that you diss the top PUA gurus in the game like that but forget to add in the extremely important fact that you are a top Hollywood nightclub promoter. You have social circle fame and these girls will use you and fuck you just so they can fuck Kim Kardashian's ex boyfriend. You have no game, they are just using you. They don't even like you. So you dogging on the most legitimate PUAs out there is bullshit and misleading.
















Annnnnndddd we know you were wearing ski goggles at night.

I'm not sure if this is a real attack or not, but I know who I'd rather hang out with and what person I'd rather be. McQueen'sPlayboyRules has more value. It doesn't matter about game when you have that level of value.

Post: #21

Mehow and Vince Kelvin are fucking gays. Mehow has no game but gay game

Post: #22

@RioNomad:

When I hung out with Mystery and Matador, we went to venues where I was not known, nor did I host at.

Proof is in the pudding: multiple forum members have met me and seen how I roll. Whether it's a spot where I'm known or not, I can crush 99.9% of known PUA's.

Next time you're in LA or I'm in your neck of the woods pick a spot and you'll see my friend.

Next.

Post: #23

Ali is the only one who knew that was a joke? I thought for sure the Mystery photo in ski glasses and dancing banana was enough to give it away. Ill lay it on thicker next time I guess.

Post: #24

Watched Ross Jeffries chat up a bartender at the 57th St Holiday Inn in New York City once. It was very conversational but he managed to segue well into his staple themes.

Post: #25

delete