Post: #1

...according to the world's greatest ever chess player, Garry Kasparov.

I'm not kidding. He is a believer in a fantastically odd alternative history of the world put together by the Russian mathematician, Anatoly Fomenko.

Quote:Yet Kasparov is also a voracious student of history. He has read a library of books and memorised most significant dates in the human chronology. To him, there always seemed to be discrepancies in the human chronology. Then in 1996, Kasparov came across the famous Moscow State University mathematician Anatoly Fomenko who had published a textbook outlining his mathematical theory that history contained statistically improbable pattern duplications. The two men met and in 1998 Kasparov wrote a supportive Preface to Fomenko’s radical book "Introduction to New Chronology."

Earlier this year, I interviewed colleagues of Fomenko’s for a story in Saturday Night. During these conversations I found out about Kasparov’s fascination. It took a few weeks to track him down – Kasparov constantly travels the world playing chess -- but when I did, he spoke freely about several of the major problems in the chronology; including discrepancies in mapping, military technology, mathematics, and how historians are reacting.

http://www.timothytaylor.ca/10/08/23/gar...rview-2001

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)

Lastly - I first saw Kasparov talk about this in a documentary. You can see him rant about this theory to his family below.

http://youtu.be/HbwMTv3IVzo?t=8m30s

The clip is in Russian - with Russian subtitles. But when I first came across it on TV - the rant had English subtitles.

Of the key claims - the one that most stands out is that the historical Jesus lived 1000 years ago - and not 2000 years ago.

Anyway - fascinating stuff all round!

Post: #2

Damn, I heard that claim about Jesus from a Russian woman! She said that an error in transcribing hebrew numbers to roman numerals caused the misunderstanding.
I forget the precise points, but it was difficult to forget.
Is that part duped anywhere? available to buy?

Also, I wonder is it possible they just misunderstood/mistranslated kasparov when he said that?

Post: #3

No - above there is a link above to an interview with Kasparov where he enthuses about the work of Fomenko.

So - it seems to be an accurate reflection of his beliefs.

Here is what Fomenko says about Jesus.

Quote:The most probable prototype of historical Jesus was a Byzantine emperor, Andronikos I Komnenos (allegedly AD 1152 to 1185), known for his failed reforms, his traits and deeds reflected in 'biographies' of many real and imaginary persons.

Post: #4

Seems as farfetched as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis

Post: #5

Alot of people - even if they were convinced a 'conspiracy theory' were true - would still not trust their own conclusions. And would instead echo what everybody else believes - and instead live with their doubts rather than voice them.

So I always respect people who challenge conventional wisdom in such a dramatic way. Since they are demonstrating an intellectual courage that must people would lack, if they were ever tested.

Post: #6

It is not too difficult to fathom. If you control the past, you control the future.

The history books still say JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald. Just look at events in our lifetime - 911 officially was committed by Al Qaeda terrorists with box cutters and it is the official record that the USA invaded Iraq due to weapons of mass destruction that we were unable to find. What a joke.

Oh yes, and WWI was due to the fact that someone assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand.

It wouldn't surprise me if most of history was a fabrication. Knowledge is power.

Post: #7

(10-23-2013 02:45 PM)cardguy Wrote:  ...according to the world's greatest ever chess player, Garry Kasparov.

I'm not kidding. He is a believer in a fantastically odd alternative history of the world put together by the Russian mathematician, Anatoly Fomenko.

Quote:Yet Kasparov is also a voracious student of history. He has read a library of books and memorised most significant dates in the human chronology. To him, there always seemed to be discrepancies in the human chronology. Then in 1996, Kasparov came across the famous Moscow State University mathematician Anatoly Fomenko who had published a textbook outlining his mathematical theory that history contained statistically improbable pattern duplications. The two men met and in 1998 Kasparov wrote a supportive Preface to Fomenko’s radical book "Introduction to New Chronology."

Earlier this year, I interviewed colleagues of Fomenko’s for a story in Saturday Night. During these conversations I found out about Kasparov’s fascination. It took a few weeks to track him down – Kasparov constantly travels the world playing chess -- but when I did, he spoke freely about several of the major problems in the chronology; including discrepancies in mapping, military technology, mathematics, and how historians are reacting.

http://www.timothytaylor.ca/10/08/23/gar...rview-2001

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)

Lastly - I first saw Kasparov talk about this in a documentary. You can see him rant about this theory to his family below.

http://youtu.be/HbwMTv3IVzo?t=8m30s

The clip is in Russian - with Russian subtitles. But when I first came across it on TV - the rant had English subtitles.

Of the key claims - the one that most stands out is that the historical Jesus lived 1000 years ago - and not 2000 years ago.

Anyway - fascinating stuff all round!

Historical Jesus? I'm skeptical that Jesus even existed in the first place. This mathematician is just bolstering that belief.

Post: #8

(10-23-2013 03:52 PM)soup Wrote:  

(10-23-2013 02:45 PM)cardguy Wrote:  ...according to the world's greatest ever chess player, Garry Kasparov.

I'm not kidding. He is a believer in a fantastically odd alternative history of the world put together by the Russian mathematician, Anatoly Fomenko.

Quote:Yet Kasparov is also a voracious student of history. He has read a library of books and memorised most significant dates in the human chronology. To him, there always seemed to be discrepancies in the human chronology. Then in 1996, Kasparov came across the famous Moscow State University mathematician Anatoly Fomenko who had published a textbook outlining his mathematical theory that history contained statistically improbable pattern duplications. The two men met and in 1998 Kasparov wrote a supportive Preface to Fomenko’s radical book "Introduction to New Chronology."

Earlier this year, I interviewed colleagues of Fomenko’s for a story in Saturday Night. During these conversations I found out about Kasparov’s fascination. It took a few weeks to track him down – Kasparov constantly travels the world playing chess -- but when I did, he spoke freely about several of the major problems in the chronology; including discrepancies in mapping, military technology, mathematics, and how historians are reacting.

http://www.timothytaylor.ca/10/08/23/gar...rview-2001

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)

Lastly - I first saw Kasparov talk about this in a documentary. You can see him rant about this theory to his family below.

http://youtu.be/HbwMTv3IVzo?t=8m30s

The clip is in Russian - with Russian subtitles. But when I first came across it on TV - the rant had English subtitles.

Of the key claims - the one that most stands out is that the historical Jesus lived 1000 years ago - and not 2000 years ago.

Anyway - fascinating stuff all round!

Historical Jesus? I'm skeptical that Jesus even existed in the first place. This mathematician is just bolstering that belief.

You do know there are original wax tablets written in Latin talking about Jesus, right? And Pontius Pilate did exist, yes?

Post: #9

Check my earlier post - this Fomenko guy isn't actually saying that. It is my fault. I phrased his claim inaccurately. What he claims is that the myth of Jesus is recycled from the life of a Byzantine emperor who lived a thousand years ago.

Also - for what it is worth - most atheists (including Richard Dawkins) accept Jesus existed. I'm an atheist myself - but don't really doubt there was a dude called Jesus a couple thousand years ago. He crops up in the accounts of some of the Roman historians of the time.

Post: #10

(10-23-2013 03:56 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Check my earlier post - this Fomenko guy isn't actually saying that. He says the myth of Jesus is recycled from the life of an early Byzantine emperor.

How would that even be possible, given that Byzantine was already a Christian empire since Rome had converted to Christianity?

Post: #11

Victors write history.

Post: #12

You have to look into the claims of Fomenko.

I am sure he is a crank - but the basis of his claims is that whole swathes of history have been made up or didn't happen.

So - when you point out inconsistencies in these claims - you have to bear in mind that Fomenko is challenging the very foundations you are using in order to raise such inconsistencies. If that makes sense?

In the interview above - Kasparov does talk a bit about the Byzantine Empire. So that might be worth checking out.

Post: #13

(10-23-2013 04:05 PM)Edmund Dantes Wrote:  Victors write history.

Victors? There was nothing to be victorious about. Byzantine Empire was the leftovers of the Roman empire.

Post: #14

(10-23-2013 04:06 PM)cardguy Wrote:  You have to look into the claims of Fomenko.

I am sure he is a crank - but the basis of his claims is that whole swathes of history have been made up or didn't happen.

So - when you point out inconsistencies in these claims - you have to bear in mind that Fomenko is challenging the very foundations you are using in order to raise such inconsistencies. If that makes sense?

In the interview above - Kasparov does talk a bit about the Byzantine Empire. So that might be worth checking out.

I dunno. Seems like it's not worth the time.

If you want alternative history on the Byzantine Empire, check out "Secret History" by Procopius.

Post: #15

I just checked out the Amazon reviews of History: Fiction or Science? Dating methods as offered by mathematical statistics. Eclipses and zodiacs. Chronology Vol.I and I must say, it is pretty comical. I don't think I will be going down this rabbit hole.

Post: #16

Kasparov is juus. Be careful.

Post: #17

Just about all high level chess players are a little off. You have to be in order to become a grandmaster of that game. Just look at the stuff Bobby Fischer spouted towards the end of his life.

Post: #18

Here is Bobby Fischer on a local radio station in the Philippines - about 4 hours after the 9/11 terrorist attacks:

Post: #19

(10-23-2013 04:55 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Here is Bobby Fischer on a local radio station in the Philippines - about 4 hours after the 9/11 terrorist attacks:

Fascinating. This was certainly an emotional response, quite funny considering who in fact perpetrated 911.





and





Edit: Bobby Fischer was Jewish and American by the way.

Post: #20

Bit of a stretch to proclaim ALL of history is a lie. Not to say that we may never know truths that have been covered up. History is written by the victors, yes, but we must remember that the losers have left history behind as well. There is A TON of history that is available on fringe conspiracy websites. I stumbled on one that is worthy of it's own thread.

The sad thing is, we may never know truths and events that have happened throughout the history of mankind. Blame the destruction of knowledge on those ignorant fools who thought their way was better. Blame the covering up of events and workings on those who KNOW that if the truth came to light, they would be destroyed. I can only imagine how advanced we could become if knowledge was kept and treasured.

If there is one thing that i hate about man, it is our arrogance and greed. There are those in power who would love nothing more than to censor the truth and to profit from their deceit.

Knowledge Is Power. Knowledge Reigns Supreme Over Everyone.

You have a vast wealth of knowledge right here, right now. Use it.

Post: #21

I definitely agree with Cardguy that conventional wisdom should be challenged, but this guy sounds a bit too much of a conspiracy theory cuckoo to me.

Post: #22

(10-23-2013 05:09 PM)durangotang Wrote:  

(10-23-2013 04:55 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Here is Bobby Fischer on a local radio station in the Philippines - about 4 hours after the 9/11 terrorist attacks:

Fascinating. This was certainly an emotional response, quite funny considering who in fact perpetrated 911.





and





Edit: Bobby Fischer was Jewish and American by the way.

Currently watching the video/interview of the Russian ex military guy/nuclear specialist and gotta say its fascinating stuff! Highly recommend you guys to watch it! Thanks for sharing it!

Post: #23

(10-23-2013 10:33 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  I definitely agree with Cardguy that conventional wisdom should be challenged, but this guy sounds a bit too much of a conspiracy theory cuckoo to me.

Yeah - I find with about 99% of people you are wasting your time because they will not challenge accepted wisdom, no matter how much evidence you provide them.

I find this alot with the bullshit health advice which goes unchallenged.

Post: #24

Relevant:

"History has only been told by one viewpoint, how can so few know the stories of so many? It has always been a patchwork of real events and speculation. The human only knows what are ounces of what is a boulder weight of reality"

[...]

"The reality does not equal truth.. truth stems from your trust in a said message which can be wrongly accepted from a false showing. Reality brings about many factors that one sees as real, and many factors that one can't explain due to the fact that he put trust in a false story of truth when the reality comes to counter that."

"I can share to you the history of my people and you can share to me the history of your people, your story and my story can be exchanged. I have extended my arm in sharing with you to gain your trust, you have done the same.. but would you believe the story of another man neither of us have met or gained are real trust from sharing to tell us both are own reality?"

"The word of a man whom shares is real and from the heart, for the man whom has stolen from you or has broken your trust, his words are not meant to be real and shouldn't be taken as truth."

[...]

"Events were always carried through dialogue and actions. The scripts are stories and revised to fit the authors vision or view. You craft a story on paper it must be revised and edited, you tell a story your word is taking as it is a pure or not, but its your terrible sin to tell lies of your own people. Nobody was benevolent to share great true renditions of other people whom were not their peoples. Bias existed then as it does as much today... always remember that."

[...]

"One view were always be favored and biased towards that view and their people. It was never intended to be the word of truth, only their words of bias."

- Old Aboriginal Elder I used to kick it with.

Post: #25

Reading about Kasparov makes me wish chess was more popular than it is today. In the West, that is. In Russia, being a proficient chess player can land you quality pussy cuz many girls know chess player = high IQ. In the US, youre considered a fuckin dork.