Post: #1

Thought I'd toss this one out:
I do cold-call sales most of the day. It's not a bad gig, the owners of the company don't micromanage me, so I appreciate the job. I go around trying to sell their industrial maintenance services to small businesses. I've been doing OK, not fabulous, but OK. There is a base pay, but you are supposed to make most your money via commission.
Lately, I've noticed they aren't sending me any leads. As a matter of fact, they hardly ever send me leads. Most of what I find I do on my own. But it's started to bother me because several times I've had to point out that an account which showed up as new business was a place I'd recently called on. They don't seem to be putting much of an effort into finding out where the lead was generated if a company calls them up about a service. Usually if they get a call, they handle themselves and list it as a house account.
I don't want to get into a "Goddammit that was my sale Motherfucker!" situation. Been there, done that, been that. Saw fist fights between retail associates when I sold electronics. But I don't want them to think I'm a chump. I've heard too many stories of sales guys who gave away huge accounts to the boss to get on their good side, only to get the boot later when it was convenient.
So should I confront the owners or just look for another job? I do have a huge database on small businesses in the area I've been accumulating over the past year.

Post: #2

Welcome to the cutthroat world of sales.

(11-12-2013 05:08 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  I do have a huge database on small businesses in the area I've been accumulating over the past year.

The lesson is somewhere in here, young player.

Post: #3

You should bring it up to them. I've worked several of these jobs. Sales reps get in little disputes over who's poaching whom all the time. Any sales manager should expect this and be able to resolve it fairly. If your boss can't do this, then, you should get out of there. If he is poaching your leads to make house accounts, he's a fucking dirtbag and you should definitely get out of there. Cold calling is one of those gigs that's always turning over. People are afraid to do it or they suck at it. Opportunities all over.

In any case, build leverage. Look at other jobs. Hammer out a business plan to use your database. Keeping that data in your own hands was smart. G is right, could be the key to your future freedom. Walk in to the conversation knowing you can leave the job. Don't be threatening or confrontational about it. But have the knowledge in your head. Bring it up tastefully if necessary.

Post: #4

Thanks for the advice. In all fairness, I don't think the company is deliberately fucking me over. But prospects do call and forget where they heard about them. I saw this a lot in electronics retail where the buyer would suddenly remember who they had talked to AFTER you rang the sale, thus setting the scene for another confrontation. But the end result is the same: I don't get credited for the sale and have to bring it to somebody's attention.
I've talked to other sales guys in this field and they tell me company owners covet all the hot or warm leads. They believe a hot lead was guaranteed $$$, so why do they need salesmen? Of course, it's never their fault when the lead doesn't go anywhere or the company suffers because they were out trying to find leads instead of ordering supplies.
Any recommendations on good Internet sites for sales jobs? I used to use Indeed, but it seems lame as of late. And don't get me started about Craig's list....

Post: #5

Do whatever you can to get the commissions you're owed, then when the check clears, bounce with your database (and a crate of office supplies) and sell their clients to a competitor.

Post: #6

I'd use that as a valuable lesson in several ways:
-you learned the very valuable art of selling through cold calling, that is contacting and closing leads. Both of which are golden skills.
- you learned first hand that working for others is not the smartest use of your resources such as your time and talent.
- you learned a valuable lesson early on.

Now use those skills and lessons to start your own biz!

Best of luck!

Post: #7

It's bullshit if they are giving deals to the house if you can show them that you recently contacted that client. I assume you can show them when you were in contact and with whom?

I'm sure you already do this, but make sure the client knows to contact you. Some always fall through the cracks, but try to minimize it.

Building a database was a good idea. I'd look into getting into the business myself since you already have the contacts.

Think about ways to do this yourself.

You say industrial service which is a pretty big field. Could be something that takes a lot of investment or it may not.

Is this something you could start up?

Post: #8

Yes I could get into the field myself, but I don't want to. I would have to hire dudes who can do the jobs. This isn't no-brainer floor polishing work where you can get your help off the street. You need young guys with skills who know-how to hustle. We are talking a man's work. I have tried to find other companies who target the businesses I'm selling to, but no luck. It's getting cold where I live and the economy still is in the shitter.
Had a sit-down with the owners of the company today and was cool, calm, and collective. Didn't get confrontational. I think they were worried I was going to quit.. They agreed to start throwing me some bones in the way of hot and warm leads, but not at the same commission rate. Fine. A little chunk of something is better than nothing.
From talking to other salesmen in this field, you have to have some decent leads sent your way as no one can survive on 100% cold calling in this field. But the owners of the company want me out scouring the streets for gold.
It's a family-owned business, so do the math.

Post: #9

-Anytime you are told you are getting 'warm leads', thats usually bullshit.
-Leads are a finite thing unless you are selling air, identify the top 100 buyers of your products in your immediate area.
-Get full info on them, names, bio's, etc, use LinkedIn or social media.
-Cross reference that against your companies CRM, are these people they have already called on?
-If not, its your job to create relationships with these people.
-Your clients are your life, not the other way around. You create dozens of solid, legitimate relationships with the top buyers of your products.
-In an unruly environment like that, which I would compare to any random start up, you have to really take full ownership of your book of business. There should be no mistaking who are your clients and who are not. How do you track internally? Or, you have made such good relationships with these clients that they will be calling back asking to speak with you.
-The sales will happen, eventually, this is a longer term prospect, but you will probably get some 'luck' along the way if you become known as that cool industrial maintenance services dude.
-Try to fit into the culture of your current company while you build your base. An odd duck that doesn't sell is the first to get the boot.
-You may have to spend some money out of pocket, buy them pizza, it works, believe me.
-Next, you find out the top five competitors to your current company.
-Once they either give you the boot, or you find a better offer, and, you have developed these relationships, you can probably up your base and commission by 50%.
-You will become the authority of your marketplace with the relationships.
-Stay positive and keep looking for something better, its usually out there.

Post: #10

(11-13-2013 11:41 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  Yes I could get into the field myself, but I don't want to. I would have to hire dudes who can do the jobs. This isn't no-brainer floor polishing work where you can get your help off the street. You need young guys with skills who know-how to hustle. We are talking a man's work. I have tried to find other companies who target the businesses I'm selling to, but no luck. It's getting cold where I live and the economy still is in the shitter.
Had a sit-down with the owners of the company today and was cool, calm, and collective. Didn't get confrontational. I think they were worried I was going to quit.. They agreed to start throwing me some bones in the way of hot and warm leads, but not at the same commission rate. Fine. A little chunk of something is better than nothing.
From talking to other salesmen in this field, you have to have some decent leads sent your way as no one can survive on 100% cold calling in this field. But the owners of the company want me out scouring the streets for gold.
It's a family-owned business, so do the math.

Leads are great, but you shouldn't have a different rate on them.

If the boss could sell them he would.

Saying that, if I was in your business I'd probably do the same as your boss since you seem willing do it.

Let's put it another way; Your sales make his business. Without people like you your boss makes no money. That's a given.

If you will in essence lower your rate because the boss "brought the biz in", your boss would be stupid to not do that.

Your boss is selling you and you took it.

Thing is, the easiest person to sell is a salesman.

Seriously.

That's why this shit works on broads. Give anyone the same game they are spitting and they will believe it.

Because they have to believe the bullshit before they spout it if they are going to move anything.

Probably not Game 101, but it should be.

Post: #11

(11-14-2013 04:49 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  That's why this shit works on broads. Give anyone the same game they are spitting and they will believe it.

Because they have to believe the bullshit before they spout it if they are going to move anything.

Probably not Game 101, but it should be.

I think there's some gold here. Would you be willing to expand on this point?

Post: #12

Thanks everyone for the quality advice.
The my arrangement with the company works like this: I get a percentage of each new client, but only for the first year. Since our services are quoted on us showing up on a regular basis, this can really suck for me in the long run. Although I am waiting for someone to bail on the company after the first year so I can say:"I see. That means if I get them back for you, I get a chunk of the business."
I get most of my commission within the first two months. It works for the company because they don't have to worry about a fat ass salesman who sits in his chair all day collecting his commission check. We also don't do contracts, it's part of the pitch. But if a customer cancels service during the first year, I get a charge-back. So it's in my best interest to call on reputable people who won't bail 3 months into the service. Which is why I don't call on people who can't speak standard English: the language and culture barriers are a time bomb waiting to happen. That said, someone who was a native Asian language speaker could rip it up in this field.
Yes, I am sure the owners are going to Game me seriously on the warm and hot leads. Which is why I don't try to get very close to these people. It's all back-slapping until you want something in return.

Post: #13

(11-14-2013 07:42 AM)Ensam Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 04:49 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  That's why this shit works on broads. Give anyone the same game they are spitting and they will believe it.

Because they have to believe the bullshit before they spout it if they are going to move anything.

Probably not Game 101, but it should be.

I think there's some gold here. Would you be willing to expand on this point?

It's been said on this forum that sales skills and game skills have many intersections. Namely, the ability to lead an interaction towards what you want (getting paid and getting laid).

A professional salesman doesn't count on luck to make a sale. A skilled everyman doesn't count on warm leads through his social circle only to get female companionship.

All the best salesmen I've ever known were also skilled seducers.

Post: #14

My problem with going after the top 100 users is that they are guarded by the big competition with steel knives. I'm talking big-time companies who wine and blow the CEO's that run these companies. Other than getting pictures of them with transsexual hookers, it's not going to be easy.
Not that I haven't considered following them around with telephoto lenses...
From the other end I am under constant attack by:
A) Part-time freelancers who think they can repair stuff because they know one end of a screw driver from another.
B) Established smaller companies whose grandfathers' started the business. And in the more affluent areas these people have had the same customers for 30 years. It's easy to grab the new accounts from them, but the older ones are like pulling teeth.
C)The prospects themselves who are sure they have a brother-in-law, employee with a triple digit IQ, or a "buddy" who can do the job.
I'm not trying to whine, but this is my reality. If I didn't care I wouldn't be here.

-Anytime you are told you are getting 'warm leads', thats usually bullshit.
-Leads are a finite thing unless you are selling air, identify the top 100 buyers of your products in your immediate area.
-Get full info on them, names, bio's, etc, use LinkedIn or social media.
-Cross reference that against your companies CRM, are these people they have already called on?
-If not, its your job to create relationships with these people.
-Your clients are your life, not the other way around. You create dozens of solid, legitimate relationships with the top buyers of your products.
-In an unruly environment like that, which I would compare to any random start up, you have to really take full ownership of your book of business. There should be no mistaking who are your clients and who are not. How do you track internally? Or, you have made such good relationships with these clients that they will be calling back asking to speak with you.
-The sales will happen, eventually, this is a longer term prospect, but you will probably get some 'luck' along the way if you become known as that cool industrial maintenance services dude.
-Try to fit into the culture of your current company while you build your base. An odd duck that doesn't sell is the first to get the boot.
-You may have to spend some money out of pocket, buy them pizza, it works, believe me.
-Next, you find out the top five competitors to your current company.
-Once they either give you the boot, or you find a better offer, and, you have developed these relationships, you can probably up your base and commission by 50%.
-You will become the authority of your marketplace with the relationships.
-Stay positive and keep looking for something better, its usually out there.
[/quote]

Post: #15

(11-18-2013 11:49 AM)ColSpanker Wrote:  My problem with going after the top 100 users is that they are guarded by the big competition with steel knives. I'm talking big-time companies who wine and blow the CEO's that run these companies. Other than getting pictures of them with transsexual hookers, it's not going to be easy.
Not that I haven't considered following them around with telephoto lenses...
From the other end I am under constant attack by:
A) Part-time freelancers who think they can repair stuff because they know one end of a screw driver from another.
B) Established smaller companies whose grandfathers' started the business. And in the more affluent areas these people have had the same customers for 30 years. It's easy to grab the new accounts from them, but the older ones are like pulling teeth.
C)The prospects themselves who are sure they have a brother-in-law, employee with a triple digit IQ, or a "buddy" who can do the job.
I'm not trying to whine, but this is my reality. If I didn't care I wouldn't be here.

I hear you, have faced that several times, anytime you enter a start up you face this too. Any entertainment budget you can muster will help, be creative if you have to. Think of it like this though, any effort you put in will pay off down the road, whether it be immediate sales, or a new and better role down the road where you can legitimately say to one of these bigger guys that you developed strong relationships with the top buyers. The truth is though your current employer is looking for you to sell now, by any means necessary.

Post: #16

I dropped off a pizza to a prospect last week, someone I've talked with but can't get to answer my calls. Well, what do you know. Two days later he took my call and spoke with me.,

Post: #17

(11-24-2013 06:18 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  I dropped off a pizza to a prospect last week, someone I've talked with but can't get to answer my calls. Well, what do you know. Two days later he took my call and spoke with me.,

haha, see, pizza is magic. purists will say you shouldnt have to buy sales, and I would agree if you are selling vinyl siding doing and are a transactional seller. here you are setting up a continual relationship where they are going to buy from you on an ongoing basis, thats a whole different scenario, far different than the 'sales advice' you see geared to what are essentially telemarketers.

Post: #18

delete

Post: #19

I've talked to three other sales guys working for different branches in different parts of the country. And they have three completely different approaches to how to seal the deal.
As many times as I've watched the Alex Baldwin video, I've never figured out one thing: why didn't any of those sales guys say:"Okay, Mr. Cadillac, why don't you show me what to do right?"

Post: #20

(11-24-2013 10:11 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  I've talked to three other sales guys working for different branches in different parts of the country. And they have three completely different approaches to how to seal the deal.
As many times as I've watched the Alex Baldwin video, I've never figured out one thing: why didn't any of those sales guys say:"Okay, Mr. Cadillac, why don't you show me what to do right?"

I dont think you will ever find another sales rep in your company that will take you under his wing and show you how to do the job. You have to do it on your own.

Post: #21

Everyone should experienced a job in sales at some point, and do it well.

There is a reason why sales can be one of the top paying industries, you'll have good salespeople making more than doctors.

Benefits from a job in sales:
No mercy for those who don't approach/call/sell.
You understand that you'll need to call/talk to 100 people to get 25 conversations to get 5 sales. So if you want to hit 20 sales a month, you better talk to at least 400 people.
Pay is excellent if you're good.
When you get used to talking to 50+ people a day, your game gets damn good.
If you are well connected you can make a lot of sales on top of company provided leads.
You understand what really takes to sell something, useful for all future business activities, you will also be able to spot a sinking ship and get out ahead of time.
It is always about how much you sold today.


Negatives:
Not an industry I would recommend staying in long term unless you really enjoyed it.
If you are new to the industry, many companies start you out with grade D leads, the people who have never bought before, and may have even told you not to call them. Once they see you pass a certain threshold you'll get the next tier leads.
Some good cultured companies out there, but overall industry is not known for their warm and fuzziness.
It is always about how much you sold today.

Post: #22

(11-26-2013 09:55 AM)johnwu Wrote:  It is always about how much you sold today.

Fucking-A.
As I tell people:"In sales you bring home the bacon or you get porked. There is no in-between."

Post: #23

(11-26-2013 09:55 AM)johnwu Wrote:  If you are new to the industry, many companies start you out with grade D leads, the people who have never bought before, and may have even told you not to call them. Once they see you pass a certain threshold you'll get the next tier leads.

One of the first territories with my current sales gig was a cute little arts and crafts town. I thought it would be a breeze.
Now I realize the owners of my company figured if I could endure that shit-hole, I would stick around.
I had a week of prospects screaming, tossing me out of their stores and generally giving major attitude. It was winter and the tourist season was over. Most of the prospects were desperate to get $$$. The last thing they wanted to hear was some motherfucker trying to sell to them.

Post: #24

Just and update:
The owner of the local branch still hasn't given me anything extra, as was promised. With all the global warming happening, sales have been dismal. As a matter of fact, I spent this morning scraping global warming off my sidewalk, but that is another story....
I've been talking to someone who owns another branch of this company. We send each other leads all the time. I'm thinking about approaching him to rep for his territory. But only if he gives me what I don't currently get. The territories are side-by-side, but I would add a shit load of miles and time to my daily schedule. Not a bad deal if my sales double, but there is never any guarantee of that happening. His territory has a little bit better cash base than the one I currently work.
But:
1) All hell could break loose if the current people I work for found out that I'd approached someone else inside the same company and
2) I have to assume they would so
3) I would have to deal with those consequences which would entail a
4) Major shit storm, no matter how you square it.
So should I approach this other guy who owns another territory?

Post: #25

(02-20-2014 11:15 AM)ColSpanker Wrote:  Just and update:
The owner of the local branch still hasn't given me anything extra, as was promised. With all the global warming happening, sales have been dismal. As a matter of fact, I spent this morning scraping global warming off my sidewalk, but that is another story....
I've been talking to someone who owns another branch of this company. We send each other leads all the time. I'm thinking about approaching him to rep for his territory. But only if he gives me what I don't currently get. The territories are side-by-side, but I would add a shit load of miles and time to my daily schedule. Not a bad deal if my sales double, but there is never any guarantee of that happening. His territory has a little bit better cash base than the one I currently work.
But:
1) All hell could break loose if the current people I work for found out that I'd approached someone else inside the same company and
2) I have to assume they would so
3) I would have to deal with those consequences which would entail a
4) Major shit storm, no matter how you square it.
So should I approach this other guy who owns another territory?

Maybe it's time to jump ship. That is what I would do.