Post: #1

Article on Salon here.

I mean, why do women think they know so much about men?

I found this article shared by a Jewish, feminist herb on FB. I chose not to stomp out this fool on my FB feed, so I just linked to TLP's article about beta males in the thread but I will leave my initial response here.

It involved about four or five neckbeard herbs talking about homosexuality, the virtues of bottoming/topping and serious entrenched prejudice against men.

First off, know they rapidly agreed with the article, thinking that sexuality is a false binary and most people were bisexual before the patriarchal institution of "love and marriage" was forced on people. They further wondered about what Biblical figures were gay and one relationship in particular -- to them -- embodied the ideal male homosexual relationship.

One herb complained that Frodo and Sam were really repressed homosexuals. Further, the man who posted the article I targeted, admitted he had significant "anti-male prejudices stemming from the horrendous misogyny that pervades male relationships and only is friends with women."

He furthers stated that is important to get men friends so they stop harrassing/raping their female friends because men do not respect female wishes. Think about that - they think sexuality is a false binary, but men need male friends so they don't pursue sex with women. Probably believes male rape of women is about oppressing women as a class. Do I need a safe space from which to challenge that falsehood?

Still, this man has a prominent role in the Jewish community in Chicago and it is men like him that lead boys to having such negative views of themselves. He is borderline omega that only gets beta status because he has a wife that isn't a landwhale.

Quote:Dipshit (and the fools that agree with him) are the reason men have problems in society, not the ridiculous fictions of out-dated masculinity, misogyny or “false binaries of sexuality.” Seriously, the last one is simply laughable. Go read some evolutionary biology or evolutionary psychology and come back with some real, substantive opinions instead of women’s studies drop-out mindless jargon.

First off – and this sheer ignorance hangs heavy over all left-wing doctrine – is what you people are critiquing are personality disorders. If people have unhealthy thought patterns, then they have a personality disorder. Masculinity has never been based out of denial of emotions, fierce competition and lacking empathy. What that is describing is narcissistic personality disorder, assuming you even correct in your observations. This idea men as unfeeling beasts is a fiction invented by women – the world over – to explain away the perceived inevitability of male domination of society.

What characterizes the modern world is narcissism. It is hilarious the article leads with the favorite demographic to rage at: white, heterosexual men. I mean, come on? How big of sheep are you? Are black men operating at a higher level than white men? Don’t you fools live in Chicago? Black on black crime is at all time highs. Do they kiss each other and exchange sweet nothings in each other’s ears before robbing or killing each other? As expected, this study does nothing to hold for class.

What makes you think female relationships are superior? I think this is a simply flipping the script that now women are superior to men. You don’t think this article is targeted at women and soft men like you guys? Women are reading this article, feeling “sorry” for the state of man. Unlike men, women are so supporting and loving of one another. Gee, the existence of reality TV and gossip rags paints a very different picture of the modern woman. Don’t complain ladies, if you are reading it is for you. You are the ones that uphold the leviathan that is “frenemies.” And gay men. Hmm…

Even if we roll with your “well-thought out” theories, it is YOUR fault men are committing suicide, are lonely and more isolated than ever. If men are so homophobic, then why are you trying to homosexualize men friendship/relationships? Shouldn’t you address the homophobia before you start wondering who might be the closet? People like you are obsessed with who or who is not gay -- but, of course, it's cool because you luv the gayz -- but you are not even thinking of the consequences of your actions. If men retreat from each other emotionally because of being perceived as gay and this retreating leads to depression and sometimes suicide, then you need to shut the fuck up about gays and start dealing with this "homophobia." The trick here is that homophobia doesn't exist -- and as such -- presents no action to take in real life. See why you believe it? It's easy because its false.

What woman would want to be with men who are –essentially – gossiping over who is the top or sucks whose cock? Since I am not gay, I don’t spend wondering about male homosexuality. What does it matter to you if one guy is a top? If it’s consensual, then stop talking about it because it isn’t your life.

Dipshit, you go off to mention you have anti-male prejudices. THAT is why men are struggling because is that men – who should be their roles models – have entrenched prejudice against men. You do realize men can hang out with other men and not “make a misogynistic boy’s club.” See the problem yet? You try to homosexualize male relations, you assume misogyny is endemic to male friendship and you ADMIT your bigotry against men. You then play that “most straight men cannot respect the platonic boundaries of friendship with women.” I mean, Dipshit, considering so many of these men have latent and repressed homosexual desire, do you really expect them to respect their male friend’s boundaries? Does the topping happen before or after the exchanging of misogyny?

It is soft men, like you Dipshit, that is the problem. You have no stable identity, have low self-esteem and can’t operate without loads of female approval (telling by your need for female friends when you have a wife). The problem is tying male self-identity to female approval. You know, single mothers, female-dominated schools/daycare, and all that.

You are not a role model and I have no idea why your wife chose you unless she wants a miserable, low-energy crushed man with which to be "co-partners" with. Hopefully, she won't feel the need to cheat too much. But if she does, hopefully it is with a woman so you and your boyfriend's can talk about who the top is.

Post: #2

Quote:One herb complained that Frodo and Sam were really repressed homosexuals.

Would you honestly expect a herb to understood the closeness of male friendships that are formed under times of great duress, such as war?

Feminists are training young men to see any form of male bonding as evidence of repressed homosexuality to shame men out of forming the close bonds of brotherhood who could threaten their power. It will be their downfall when none of them have the stones to fight off the invaders who'll replace the current status quo.

Do these herbs even realise war is looming between the US, Japan and China over disputed islands in the East China Sea?

Post: #3

Men have fewer friends but they're closer, often reaching the level of blood relatives or someone he'd take a bullet for.

Women have many friends but they're shallow, often reaching the level of backstabbing, shit-talking, and someone she'd throw under a bus.

Post: #4

I'm not really in with all these internet lingos, and don't know if I missed it in another thread but what is a "herb"? And I know its not in reference to cooking

Post: #5

"Herb: Nerd; dork; geek; generally uncool person. Originated in early 1980s Burger King ad campaign in which a nerd named HERB was featured. The term was subsequently embraced by the hip hop generation."

Post: #6

Gotchya, thanks!

Post: #7

Quote:*herb, noun – a schlumpy, nondescript white guy with no fashion sense, chin, or sexual gravitas, who has managed to hook up with a cute chick. Herbs usually wear satchels to nightclubs and button down collar shirts with the Hanes undershirt peaking through at the neck. They love anything khaki and are not embarrassed to be seen wearing fanny packs or sandals. A super herb takes it up a notch with white athletic socks and an extra-large t-shirt to hide his man boobs. They have a walk that can be best described as looking like they are carrying a load in their pants. They will annoy you just by being there. The fact that a herb will have usually managed to score a cute yuppie chick will fill you with violent feelings toward him.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/05/...a-or-herb/

Post: #8

Lmfao! Oh that's rich....my neighborhood is full of em

Post: #9

Feminists have discovered that they cannot be men. No matter how hard they try, the majority will always prefer being mothers over being executives and they continue to laughably fail to become infantry officers, football players or race car drivers.

Since they can't be us, they've decided that we must become them.

Post: #10

Ah yes, "man up" and live the way we want you to.

Perhaps this uh, writer, doesn't realize that men build "intimacy" by talking about things that might not be considered intimate.

My closest friends for instance are guys that I can talk about the big and the small things with. We just usually talk about the stuff we love- military history, writing about battles, making our somewhat successful show on YT together, playing ball, etc. All classic "male" things. We don't need to talk about "emotional things." The ethos exists between us that we have each others' backs (and therein, the emotional support), and that's enough. We CAN have emotional disclosure but it isn't something that we focus on.

Numerous other strawmen exist throughout this hack job (masculine being "better" than feminine, forming "intimate" bonds, etc.).

In fact, making a conscious effort of coming into closer contact with my masculinity this year has been the number one driver of my positive development, and I think I am now a better friend than before.

Herbs indeed.

Post: #11

I do agree that in the U.S. people would benefit from more friends.

We are a particularly unfriendly society, I think individualism plays a part in this. In societies like Latin America, for instance, I think men generally have a much larger social circle, and it's nice if you've ever experienced it. Part of it is probably the bigger families that are common there, and growing up with lots of relatives who you always spend time with.

Honestly, lots of people in the U.S. seem to abandon ties with their blood relatives and spend all their time with chosen friends. Not that it's a bad thing, but in Latin America for instance, many people's closest friends ARE their families. Their many first second and third cousins are people who they've shared their whole lives with and have incredibly deep and meaningful ties with.

Post: #12

(12-12-2013 02:39 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Quote:One herb complained that Frodo and Sam were really repressed homosexuals.

Would you honestly expect a herb to understood the closeness of male friendships that are formed under times of great duress, such as war?

Feminists are training young men to see any form of male bonding as evidence of repressed homosexuality to shame men out of forming the close bonds of brotherhood who could threaten their power. It will be their downfall when none of them have the stones to fight off the invaders who'll replace the current status quo.

Do these herbs even realise war is looming between the US, Japan and China over disputed islands in the East China Sea?

This is one of many reasons why i'm a bane to the existence of herbs/blue pillers because i'm like Paul Revere warning them that the pussy pass they give to women now will be also offered to women by your enemies while they slaughter you.

Post: #13

There I was scowling and thinking - "Oh, how original. Another article that hides its intent to hate on men easier by qualifying with 'heterosexual white males' in the first sentence." As long as they drop in that part, these femenazies find they can say whatever they want without repercussion. Disclaimer: I stopped reading there so if she had good points I never got that far.

Instead I skipped to the comments and read this (clearly placed by one of you sonofabitches):

Quote:nothing a little vagina knitting can't cure

That shit there put a healthy grin on my face.

Rooshers unite.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #14

(12-12-2013 02:13 AM)Spinsterbitch Wrote:  Lisa Wade: Straight White Men Don't Have Enough Friends Because Of Misogyny we hate entitled cunts.

Fixed.

Post: #15

Oh look. Another woman trying to tell men what masculinity should be.

Post: #16

The reason why all men---not just straight, white men---have fewer friends is because feminists have spent the last 50 years exterminating all-male spaces. Feminists have spent the last 50 years demanding that these spaces either be shutdown or made co-ed, fundamentally altering the atmosphere therein. This bitch appealing for guys to be friends with girls now is really just feminism attempting to solve a problem that it created. Thanks, but no thanks.

This is one reason why forums like this are so key.

Post: #17

Correct me if I am wrong but since when do men have a lack of friends ? It is women that don't have friends.. Hence why they will drop everything to be with their man.... All the backstabbing and competing that goes on with women cause them to want to hang out with guys since most of us are non judgmental..

Gay guys also don't have any friends except for maybe one good gf.... They move around from group to group and once they are all done fucking each other they move onto the next group that is forming from outcasts from other broken groups

Post: #18

I'm always in awe of the ability of the writers at Salon and The Atlantic to take an issue, explore its dimensions, and meticulously concoct an analysis that manages to be totally wrong in every detail.

So men can't bond with other men because they are dissociating from the feminine? Well she is clearly using paradox as a tool to mystically express higher truths beyond the scope of masculine logic. My best interpretation: she's so arrogant that she believes emotional communication and bonding is inherently feminine and men are broken, stunted beings incapable of finding meaning and connection without the aid of the Mother Goddess. Or some shit like that.

Calling each other fags and bitches distances boys from one another instead of serving as a bonding tool and communicator of shared values and expectations? And they only start doing it at age 15? I feel like it took effort on this woman's part to be so totally clueless about boys. 15-16 is just about the age when kids have been calling each other faggots for so long that the term is pretty much exhausted as an insult and starts to be used in a somewhat different way that the author will never comprehend because she is a girl.

I don't doubt that the study's findings that white straight men have shallower and fewer friendships than other demographics are completely accurate, and the true explanation is pretty clear to me. It's because boys are dissociating from the masculine but cannot replace it with the feminine because...they're male. Men understand and express their emotions through their masculinity, if they are alienated from their masculinity they are likewise alienated from their emotions. The crucial 15/16 age the article mentions is, imo, the phase in adolescence where boys qualitatively become men. Young, immature, awkward men just starting out, but men. That process has been totally monkey-wrenched by our society leaving youths in a soulless limbo when their boyhood is stripped from them but their manhood is stunted. And now certain elements of our society want them to heal themselves by becoming quasi-women. A second dose of poison should help, right?

That kid the author quotes illustrates the process:

Boy: [My best friend and I] love each other… that’s it… you have this thing that is deep, so deep, it’s within you, you can’t explain it. It’s just a thing that you know that person is that person… I guess in life, sometimes two people can really, really understand each other and really have a trust, respect and love for each other.

This first quote is of course not only faggy as shit but also essentially meaningless. Naturally the lady author gushes. But it's not the kids fault: he's a boy. As he matures he is supposed to learn from other men the foundations of male friendship in definite things like mutual respect, solidarity, integrity, and all that manly shit. Sometimes this is achieved by calling him a bitch ass little faggot or taking his lunch money or whatever. By hook or crook the job gets done. Ideally he'd eventually find himself surrounded by a select group of tested and loyal friends whose support he can count on. And yes, he can share his inner burdens with these men knowing that they will tell him what he needs rather than wants to hear as well as keep his secrets. Good look getting discretion and constructive feedback on your personal life from a woman, no matter how sympathetic she might be.

As it turns out there aren't really a lot of men around for this kid. And the attempts of his male peers to fill in the gaps themselves are always aborted by the public school environment that dominates their lives. Quite a few of them just become more and more isolated and withdrawn. They spend their free time on the margins of the student population in groups of three or four. They talk about video games and movies and you know whatever just like that sort of stuff. As their high school days draw to a close their female teachers are too busy not noticing them to be glad their discipline problems seem to have resolved themselves. Some of them let their grades tank while others bury themselves in their schoolwork. And our young hero becomes...

Psychically mutilated beta in training: [My friend and I] we mostly joke around. It’s not like really anything serious or whatever… I don’t talk to nobody about serious stuff… I don’t talk to nobody. I don’t share my feelings really. Not that kind of person or whatever… It’s just something that I don’t do.

Read that shit aloud. Kid isn't just uncomfortable sharing his feelings, he's uncomfortable in general. He sounds depressed and anxious as fuck. His relationship with his friend is completely shallow and he trashes it as insignificant. He doesn't mention other friends, much less a group he can be part of. Even if he would share his feelings, can he even articulate them? And let's say he could, what could our sympathetic author do for him? Give him a hug and tell him it'll be alright? The kid is socially withdrawn and seemingly totally unmotivated (i.e. depressed). Is having a good cry going to get him real friends? Will it help him find a passion or duty that gives meaning to his life? Feminization really has nothing to offer him but a pat on the back and a tender look of pity for the broken creature he is and might as well continue being because he's such a sweetheart and it's all gonna be alright.

Need a smoke.

Post: #19

^^ Anyone know what he was trying to say there?

Post: #20

(12-19-2013 05:54 AM)Capitán Peligroso Wrote:  ^^ Anyone know what he was trying to say there?

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Post: #21

(12-19-2013 05:54 AM)Capitán Peligroso Wrote:  ^^ Anyone know what he was trying to say there?

He believes young men don't have strong masculine role models offered to them anymore, and the feminine ones they're offered instead preach the importance of feminine displays feelings and emotions, which is so anti-masculine that young men can't identify with it, and it stunts their development as men.

That being said, I've seen what women do to each other in the name of 'friendship', and I wouldn't wish 'friends' like that on any man.

The thing is though, what is the study is simply showing that straight, white men are simply strong enough to be self-reliant? Women need friends as audiences for their narcissistic drama. Men just get shit done.

Post: #22

In my experience guys have many friends while growing up. There is usually one main Alpha that is head of the group.
As you get older and want to break out from under the shadow of the Alpha you do the loner thing or start your own group
with yourself as the Alpha and a few Betas that follow you around. It's either that or you get married and become the
head of your family.

What's annoying to me is the concept of a man-child. I went to my high school reunion a little while back and hung out with
my old prom date afterwards. Not surprisingly I was the only one there all suited up

A group of us went to a local bar for an after party. She flat out called my friend a man-child to his face. I damn near fell over.