Post: #1

This has completely changed my mindset on training, literally entirely changed my mindset on training.

I've never been one to stick to the same routine with workouts. I've always tried different things and training methods to progress my training. But now I feel like there is an entirely different process I wasn't aware of or had attempted before.

Check out the podcast: http://dangerandplay.com/2014/03/02/mark...interview/

I made some notes on it. Here were the highlights for me. But you should really take the time to listen to it when you can:

- Hit isolation movements, rather than compounds first (I had ALWAYS done otherwise)
- Training one set only per exercise, with failure during concentric, isometric, and eccentric contractions
- Move the weight as fast as you can, but within control. Learn control, as in maximally activating your muscle fibres
- Odds are you are probably using a lot of momentum in your lifts and you are not contracting the muscle fibres maximally like you should be for full benefit

- Example of one set for an exercise, high intensity style: Pullups, done in control, to maximum number of reps, but at the last one, you perform an isometric hold. Hold that static position as long as you can, and then hold the eccentric lowering extension as long as you can until your elbows fully extend and your arms can't hold you up anymore.

Positive, static, negative failures.

Post: #2

Glad you enjoyed the podcast.

HIT is brutal. I just finished a chest/tri workout and am spent.

Post: #3

mike you need to have BLP on the podcast brah. Dude can make the brah u just had on look like Suits in the weight room.

Post: #4

I'm not a fan of Mentzer (dude was kind of a moron, he wasn't fooling anybody with his hilariously espoused "drug-free" lifestyle), his training theories, or HIT workouts (for the most part) but will have to check out the podcast sometime. I'm glad that he lost the 1980 Mr Olympia (his assertion that his training protocols were the "only way to train", based in Ayn Rand's obejctivist theories, really pissed off dudes like Arnie who basically just went to the gym and wrecked shit twice every day) as it probably reduced the popularity that HIT could have enjoyed, but the world is worse off for every HIT jedi that walks it's face despite that. I hope the fad dies out.

Anyway, on the training. Why limit yourself to one training set per exercise to failure? Are you doing twenty different exercises? Do you train every lift every day? Two-a-days? I'm aware that HIT jedis are big on reducing training volume as they increase in Mentzer's definition of "intensity" (his idea was that the subjective notion of how hard you train = intensity, everybody else in the entire strength training universe define intensity as the percentage of your one rep max that you're training at) but your gains are going to stall out if you don't keep adding training volume, insist on doing short workouts, and insist on taking so many rest days.

That being said, there's a lot of merit to bodybuilding and a lot of guys are doing themselves a disservice by reading too much Pavel and Rippetoe. Bigger muscles are stronger muscles, one way or another. It's not a surprise that guys who actually enjoy lifting, opt for more volume rather than less (bodybuilders =/= hit jedis), aren't afraid of overtraining, and spend lots of time in the gym regularly outlift everybody else.

Post: #5

Note that these guys are into bodybuilding -- these principles hardly apply for strength, except for avoiding excessive momentum & doing controlled reps. That isolations before compounds is just a suicide for strength.

Also, all of these guys are heavily enhanced. ALWAYS take that in notice. Seriously folks, even with low doses of drugs you can just fuck around in the gym and make good gains. Ponder how seriously you can take their advice, especially if they haven't reached a high level of muscularity or strength without performance enhancing drugs.

I am a firm believer that the only way for natural trainees to reach high level of muscularity is through strength first, then enough volume rest and food second. The only guys who were jacked before drugs era were the ones who reached high levels of strength first.

Post: #6

I used to be a HUGE HIT fan Arthur Jones, Doug Mcguff, Ken Hutchins, Ellington Darden, Tim Feriss, Markus Reinhardt-read them all and trained that way for years.

I will say though that the only time I've put on serious muscle mass (13 kg in 3 months) was through doing a Starting Strength style 5x5 routine and eating a TON. Progressive overload + food.

I'll probably go back to training HIT style in the future but just as a change of pace to add some variety into my workouts.

Post: #7

I agree Danger and Play Podcast's have become mandatory viewing. MikeCF has produced some great podcasts on a variety of topics ranging from training to gaming as an introvert, along with Testosterone replacement therapy for newbies. No nonsense and very to the point. Greatly appreciated. I listen to every new podcast.

I would be interested in a discussion about whether HIT is sustainable longer-term for an athlete or if it is too intense and causes injuries?

Post: #8

I haven't listened to the podcast but I have been doing High Intensity Training for a while now.

Whilst there is a lot of scientific evidence for this approach there are some modifications needed for the average trainee.

The research is clear that there is no difference between training 1 set and 20 sets in terms of gains. This is why HIT proposes doing 1 set to failure.

But I find that most people are simply unable to push themselves that hard in one set which is why multiple sets work best for the majority. High volume can overwhelm your recovery and lead to overtraining however so still limit it to no more than 4 sets for each of the 3 main compound movements (upper body pushing, pulling and legs).

Also in regards to training frequency, all muscle groups respond best to 1x/week frequency except abs which does better on twice a week so it's best to structure your routine with this in mind.

The extremely popular Leangains approach is quite representative of this modified HIT approach and I highly recommend using both the training and nutrition aspects of the method.

Post: #9

Mike, I'd like to hear/read about old school bodybuilding routines for natural lifters. The 70s routine on bold and determined looks awesome, but could a natural do that 6x per week as laid out? Maybe 3 on then one off instead?

Post: #10

(03-05-2014 09:05 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Mike, I'd like to hear/read about old school bodybuilding routines for natural lifters. The 70s routine on bold and determined looks awesome, but could a natural do that 6x per week as laid out? Maybe 3 on then one off instead?

Here's the link I'm talking about: http://boldanddetermined.com/2011/12/01/...g-routine/

Post: #11

(03-05-2014 06:21 AM)Valentine Wrote:  But I find that most people are simply unable to push themselves that hard in one set which is why multiple sets work best for the majority.

This is true. HIT gets a bad name because guys don't really understand what it means go "train to failure" until you train with a legit HIT guy.

MR has some videos with my co-host that illustrate what failure looks like - and it isn't pretty.

HIT also works best with a training partner. Hard to do it alone.

Post: #12

(03-05-2014 04:44 AM)strengthstudent Wrote:  Also, all of these guys are heavily enhanced. ALWAYS take that in notice. Seriously folks, even with low doses of drugs you can just fuck around in the gym and make good gains. Ponder how seriously you can take their advice, especially if they haven't reached a high level of muscularity or strength without performance enhancing drugs.

Maybe you need some Adderall because you can't even keep one sentence consistent with the next. Are we "heavily enhanced"? Or are we just on "low doses"?

We actually did a podcast on gear and the answer is that most guys that you think are all roided out are on a very small amounts of stuff.

(03-05-2014 04:44 AM)strengthstudent Wrote:  I am a firm believer that the only way for natural trainees to reach high level of muscularity is through strength first, then enough volume rest and food second. The only guys who were jacked before drugs era were the ones who reached high levels of strength first.

Well isn't that interesting. If you listened to the podcasts (hater), you'd know that our belief is that HIT is not for beginners and that beginners should do old school type training first.

But no one (unless it's genetic mutant) is going to reach "reach high level of muscularity" naturally.

You can get that big, built fat look that a lot of Starting Strength guys have. The guys look great in a hoodie, but take that sweet shirt off and it's sloppy.

Once they start peeling that fat off, watch how they shrink up.

Anyhow, debate is good. But you need to educate yourself before coming back to this thread.

Post: #13

(03-05-2014 09:05 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Mike, I'd like to hear/read about old school bodybuilding routines for natural lifters. The 70s routine on bold and determined looks awesome, but could a natural do that 6x per week as laid out? Maybe 3 on then one off instead?

There's no way I could personally train legs 3 days each week.

You'd have to tweak volume and intensity. Heavy squat on Monday, light legs on Wednesday, and medium legs on Friday.

Personally when I do legs I am limping for a couple of days and not good to do legs again for another 5 days, sometimes 7 days.

Post: #14

(03-05-2014 04:51 AM)copac Wrote:  I will say though that the only time I've put on serious muscle mass (13 kg in 3 months) was through doing a Starting Strength style 5x5 routine and eating a TON. Progressive overload + food.

That is what beginners are advised to do in other training podcasts.

I will say that a lot of SS guys get a reality check once they start dieting down and realize how much fat they put on.

Post: #15

(03-05-2014 04:56 AM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  I agree Danger and Play Podcast's have become mandatory viewing. MikeCF has produced some great podcasts on a variety of topics ranging from training to gaming as an introvert, along with Testosterone replacement therapy for newbies. No nonsense and very to the point. Greatly appreciated. I listen to every new podcast.

I would be interested in a discussion about whether HIT is sustainable longer-term for an athlete or if it is too intense and causes injuries?

Thanks for the kind words. We already have three more podcasts done.

If you guys have podcast ideas, send them in to us. That's basically how we do them....We read your questions and then build a show around them.

Post: #16

I enjoyed listening to it on Monday. From what I heard, it would be really good to have a trainer guide you through it. To fully understand and experience it properly.

Today was upper body day and I just tried to bench slower with focus on control (well all exercises), and avoid any momentum, and fuck ya it was much harder. Can't imagine how hard it would be doing HIT properly.

MikeCF's podcasts give a lot of food for thought.

Edit: I listed to the "Testosterone Replacement Therapy TRT" podcast yesterday and you guys were pretty funny while answering some of the questions. Straight answers but it was entertaining.

Post: #17

Mike, have you ever thought about doing a training video series with you and your friend? I would imagine it would sell really well based on all the knowledge you drop on the forum. I know I would buy it.

Post: #18

(03-05-2014 03:47 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Mike, have you ever thought about doing a training video series with you and your friend? I would imagine it would sell really well based on all the knowledge you drop on the forum. I know I would buy it.

That's the next step.

Last year was the worst year of my life. (I'm doing a blog post on it.)

I've had to rebuild my life/health so now that I'm back to normal again, stuff like that is on the horizon.

Post: #19

(03-05-2014 03:44 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Edit: I listed to the "Testosterone Replacement Therapy TRT" podcast yesterday and you guys were pretty funny while answering some of the questions. Straight answers but it was entertaining.

Thanks.

You can either be mad at the blue pill world (how we all start off) or learn to laugh about the sheer stupidity that predominates (hopefully what we evolve to).

Post: #20

(03-05-2014 03:51 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-05-2014 03:47 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Mike, have you ever thought about doing a training video series with you and your friend? I would imagine it would sell really well based on all the knowledge you drop on the forum. I know I would buy it.

That's the next step.

Last year was the worst year of my life. (I'm doing a blog post on it.)

I've had to rebuild my life/health so now that I'm back to normal again, stuff like that is on the horizon.

Congrats on the comeback.

Rebuilding yourself is tough, I ended up doing it a couple of times with my career. The last couple of years I have been also concentrating on the health part. I always tended to put career above everything else which was a big mistake.

I figured there was no choice in the matter. It sucks but the alternatives were much worst.

I expect big things from you this year then.

Post: #21

(03-05-2014 03:57 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Rebuilding yourself is tough, I ended up doing it a couple of times with my career. The last couple of years I have been also concentrating on the health part. I always tended to put career above everything else which was a big mistake.

Growth is painful.

But remain stagnant and just passing by through life is quiet desperation and boredom.

Bring the pain.

Post: #22

Is there a directory for certified HIT trainers like Marcus? I did a google search and couldn't find anything in my area that seemed legit.

I read Ellington Darden's book a few years ago and tried the workouts. I just don't think I was doing them properly.

Great podcast's Mike.

Post: #23

(03-06-2014 06:48 AM)Neo Wrote:  Is there a directory for certified HIT trainers like Marcus? I did a google search and couldn't find anything in my area that seemed legit.

I read Ellington Darden's book a few years ago and tried the workouts. I just don't think I was doing them properly.

Great podcast's Mike.

Thanks for the kind words. There isn't any directory that I know of.

We'll be posting some videos soon. That will at least make the concept of "training to failure" more concrete.

Post: #24

(03-06-2014 02:32 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  We'll be posting some videos soon. That will at least make the concept of "training to failure" more concrete.

I'm looking forward to this.

Today and yesterday I changed up my workout after having listened to the podcast. I found even if I decreased my original working weights by 40-50%, I was still feeling a strong burn and challenge to reach 12 reps for 2 sets, when I did the reps slowly and controlled.

It's a different kind of soreness afterwards as well.

Also, in the podcast you guys suggest only doing 3 workouts a week, any more isn't necessary.

Do you guys do full body typically? Say you'll do 5 exercises, 1 set each for each gym day. Legs, chest, back, shoulders, bi's one day.. the next something different?

The best way is to see what works for you individually, but at this point I'm open to ideas.

Post: #25

(03-06-2014 04:26 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  Also, in the podcast you guys suggest only doing 3 workouts a week, any more isn't necessary.

Do you guys do full body typically? Say you'll do 5 exercises, 1 set each for each gym day. Legs, chest, back, shoulders, bi's one day.. the next something different?

I personally train more than 3 days a week.

Push-pull-legs split with 2 on and 1 off.

(That varies but it's what I'm doing right now.)

Monday (Pull Day):
Hammer Strength Machine Rows
Hammer Pulldowns
Upright rows
Curls of some kind

Tuesday (Push Day):
Hammer Incline Bench
Pre-exhaust chest with cable flys
Then run to dip station for max reps
Hammer Shoulder Presses
Tricep movement (tricep push downs, soul crusher, etc.)

Wednesday:
Off

Thursday (Leg Day):
Legs (varies greatly)

Friday (Pull Day):
Repeat Monday

Saturday:
Off

Sunday (Push Day):
Repeat Tuesday