Post: #1

Gents,

I follow the blog of an American expat in Kiev, a Vietnam veteran in his early 70s. He recently wrote a post on his blog that was remarkably powerful. I post it here so his story can serve as a cautionary tale:

Quote:I tried to be a perfect husband in an imperfect marriage. Our mutual friends sometimes commented on it. I loaned money to each of my wife’s siblings to help them get on their feet. If I dutifully cleaned her windshield and kissed her goodbye every morning as she set off to compete in a man’s world. I opened our house to her father in the last four years as he was dying of Parkinson’s. I did the little things, like digging the holes for her new garden flowers, raking leaves, and shoveling the snow. Nonetheless, my wife never fell in love with me, nor even trusted me. She resolutely sought to be self-sufficient. She courted the children’s affection by undercutting my efforts to give them structure and discipline as they grew up.

Once they were grown, I left. She didn’t love me, and then they weren’t talking to me. They bought the evil white man story they learned in school hook line and sinker. To the extent she gave it any thought, my wife seems to have done so too. It jibed with the mainstream media story. The kids wouldn’t even argue with me – apparently, even to think there was anything meritorious about Western civilization made me morally deficient. End of story.

I left in the least obtrusive way. We had a brief conversation, and three days later the movers brought me to a new house. I came back twice for stuff I had forgotten, and we saw each other a dozen times or so over the course of a no-fault divorce. I had brought a portfolio of five rental properties and a fair amount of stock into the marriage; she had brought a half paid for Toyota Corolla. She left the marriage with a million-dollar house and half of everything else. That’s how it works. At 64, I got the freedom to look for true love and maybe sire some appreciative children. It was a considerable gamble, but better than sure defeat.

All this was all seven years ago. The thing that surprises me most is how much the single fact that I left my wife trumps everything else. Her family, and our mutual friends, do not care to think about the state of the marriage, our mutual contributions, and our failure at raising children. They see only one fact. I left her. That makes me evil, by the lights of contemporary America. Few of them care to talk to me, including the woman to whom I gave a job after her husband died and the relatives who benefited from our generosity.

This is not sour grapes. I got lucky. I moved to Ukraine, learned Russian and integrated into Ukrainian society, married and have a new son. I have more friends here than I did in the United States. I still have my health. For a guy in his eighth decade I’m doing extraordinarily well. I have a lot to look forward to, and many plans for my son’s future.

Still and all, I am perplexed and disappointed by the unfairness of it all. Women have truly taken over America. They dominate the educational process and the intellectual zeitgeist. By merit or by force, they have come to dominate many aspects of the workplace. They have changed the perception of the male role from “father knows best” to “father knows squat.” Men are universally branded as unreliable layabouts, philanderers, and incompetents. It is useless to attempt to fight this mindset. Our mutual acquaintances forced the facts into accordance with this template as an explanation of how the marriage ended.

To me this is part of a larger sea change in Western thinking, part of the progressive project. All of the forces that expanded Western culture throughout the world have been challenged. Masculine leadership in business, the father’s role in the family, heterosexuality itself, and the very Enlightenment thinking that underlies all modern Western thought. The modern generation has looked over its shoulder at those who brought them as far as they have come, only to shun and disown them, without creating anything approaching the merit of their ancestors’ creations. As a straight white man, I am prima facie bigoted, out of touch and ineffectual.

Here in Kiev I encounter a traditional society, one in which men are men, women are women, diversity for all intents and purposes does not exist, gays are tolerated but quiet, and extended families remain robust. It is rather like the world I was born into. Meanwhile, it appears that the Western world is rushing headlong into collapse. There is too much debt, both too little work and too little will to work, and far too little desire to have children, much less raise them in any sort of tradition. My hope is that the collapse will be complete by the time my new son comes of age, and that the intellectual currents which swept over my first family and rendered them unwilling and unable to form families or, for the most part, make a constructive contribution to society will be in thorough disrepute.

Perhaps manly virtues will again become fashionable by the time my son becomes a man. As I write, those virtues are being tested here in downtown Kiev. I hope they prevail, and provide a model to the West. And I hope that my son, the descendant of thirteen generations of Americans, becomes the proud patriarch of generations of proud and independent Ukrainians.

Post: #2

Im glad he's made the adjustment.

But he's playing the victim a little too much.

He takes little or no responsibility for his own behavior, that of the wife, and kids.....

And THAT is a major part of the problem.

Sounds like a bitter boomer who only late in life realizes the disaster he has created for himself and children ........and seekibg to make amends with a new family.

Post: #3

For a second I thought he divorced his Ukrainian wife. So he divorced the American wife, lost half his stuff, then moved to Ukraine, learned Russian, married again, and had a new son.

Post: #4

(03-10-2014 10:06 PM)kdolo Wrote:  Im glad he's made the adjustment.

But he's playing the victim a little too much.

He takes little or no responsibility for his own behavior, that of the wife, and kids.....

And THAT is a major part of the problem.

Sounds like a bitter boomer who only late in life realizes the disaster he has created for himself and children ........and seekibg to make amends with a new family.

Yes true. "Tried to be the perfect husband." That was his mistake in the first place. Had he instead sought a woman who accepted him as an imperfect man he may have found a more solid relationship to build on, instead of trying appeasement year after year.

Post: #5

^^^
Saaaammmulus!

We miss you, man.

Post: #6

(03-10-2014 10:15 PM)Roosh Wrote:  For a second I thought he divorced his Ukrainian wife. So he divorced the American wife, lost half his stuff, then moved to Ukraine, learned Russian, married again, and had a new son.

He did all that at the age of 64.

Post: #7

(03-10-2014 10:38 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 10:15 PM)Roosh Wrote:  For a second I thought he divorced his Ukrainian wife. So he divorced the American wife, lost half his stuff, then moved to Ukraine, learned Russian, married again, and had a new son.

He did all that at the age of 64.

Yeah.

I always read stories like this with a mixture of motivation and sadness. It's motivating in the sense that he finally got the type of life he wanted. He was able to remake himself at a late stage in his life. That's inspiring.

But it's also sad, because you see just how much of his life was spent as a slave to Western femino-centric culture.

Post: #8

(03-10-2014 10:42 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  Yeah.

I always read stories like this with a mixture of motivation and sadness. It's motivating in the sense that he finally got the type of life he wanted. He was able to remake himself at a late stage in his life. That's inspiring.

But it's also sad, because you see just how much of his life was spent as a slave to Western femino-centric culture.

It is a waste that he did what he thought was the right thing. Society told him it was the right thing and he was thanked by losing a great deal of his financial fortune and having his kids turned against them.

I went through something similar and got married because that was what I was suppose to do. I learned quickly to get out and do my own thing without listening to what society thinks I should be doing.

I have never been happier. Hopefully more guys learn before they waste too many years.

Post: #9

The good news is that many of us are still young enough to not make the mistake of being a slave to modern Western society.

There are many ways to respond, but the simplest is to never cohabitate with or marry a woman.

Never let a woman move into your place and if by 30 you feel you really need to be a father, make sure you have all your ducks in a row so that I can successfully transition into a more traditional society by 35.

Post: #10

(03-10-2014 10:06 PM)kdolo Wrote:  Im glad he's made the adjustment.

But he's playing the victim a little too much.

He takes little or no responsibility for his own behavior, that of the wife, and kids.....

And THAT is a major part of the problem.

Sounds like a bitter boomer who only late in life realizes the disaster he has created for himself and children ........and seekibg to make amends with a new family.

I'm a bit more sympathetic given his age. This is a guy who was in his 20's in the 1960's. The social contract, so to speak, was just coming unglued in regards to gender relations and respect for men in this country. The marriage laws and perception of men have changed quite a bit since that time.

For someone at that age in life today, with the information available, its inexcusable. That's the broader value of the manosphere today IMO. Most guys are not seeking the playboy lifestyle. But if they better understand the risks of marriage and their options in life, it helps solve a lot of the problems here.

Quote:They have changed the perception of the male role from “father knows best” to “father knows squat.”

Indeed.

Post: #11

For a guy his age he did well. Heck - most young guys should rather look for greener pastures in other parts of the world.

BTW - some women cannot be changed even with World Class Game. Especially if the "Oneitis-Set" of the married woman is rotten already. You may find one good Red-Pill-woman, who is constantly bombarded with propaganda from all sides. No wonder, why it is more rewarding to be a Player in the Western World than a Husband.

Post: #12

(03-11-2014 12:06 AM)Gator Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 10:06 PM)kdolo Wrote:  Im glad he's made the adjustment.

But he's playing the victim a little too much.

He takes little or no responsibility for his own behavior, that of the wife, and kids.....

And THAT is a major part of the problem.

Sounds like a bitter boomer who only late in life realizes the disaster he has created for himself and children ........and seekibg to make amends with a new family.

I'm a bit more sympathetic given his age. This is a guy who was in his 20's in the 1960's. The social contract, so to speak, was just coming unglued in regards to gender relations and respect for men in this country. The marriage laws and perception of men have changed quite a bit since that time.

For someone at that age in life today, with the information available, its inexcusable. That's the broader value of the manosphere today IMO. Most guys are not seeking the playboy lifestyle. But if they better understand the risks of marriage and their options in life, it helps solve a lot of the problems here.

Quote:They have changed the perception of the male role from “father knows best” to “father knows squat.”

Indeed.

Exactly. It is easy with the whole PUA movement going on 15 years, and the MRA movement going on decades to fall back up. Add with the internet to allow men to communicate. Add in how obvious that women in the USA are becoming worthless. For all of us to say "well he shouldn't have...".

The men his age got the biggest shit on them bait and switch in maybe the history of the world. They were drafted into a war that much of the country didn't agree with. Then they come back and are told they have to get married and have a family. They do this. Then while married as the 1970's and 1980's unfold, they are told they have to be subserviant to their wives.

Men his age got shit all over, with little to no outlet or resources.

We younger men are lucky to learn the easy way from men like him.

Post: #13

(03-10-2014 10:06 PM)kdolo Wrote:  Im glad he's made the adjustment.

But he's playing the victim a little too much.

He takes little or no responsibility for his own behavior, that of the wife, and kids.....

And THAT is a major part of the problem.

Sounds like a bitter boomer who only late in life realizes the disaster he has created for himself and children ........and seekibg to make amends with a new family.

I totally understand your criticisms and find it to be true. But this man deserves a pass on this one. He was born around the Great Depression. He never saw of had to know what Game was. Back then marriages were for co-dependency and survival. Also you can kinda tell that this guy was/is a multi-millionaire that probably married a way younger American woman.

Well if this man, which is the quintessential successful man that were told to aspire to be, got divorced and alienated by his kids, how are we supposed to succeed? Simply put that without a Conservative culture, I believe that we almost can't succeed. Some lucky men might get married only once and be happy, but that men is now the outlier, and not the norm!! This man just never knew that game was now needed.

Post: #14

Not trying to overly dissect the matter, but trying to learn where possible.

Quote:They bought the evil white man story they learned in school hook line and sinker.

This guy was a Vietnam vet, it sounds like maybe he met a gal during the war and brought her home?

Quote:Nonetheless, my wife never fell in love with me, nor even trusted me. She resolutely sought to be self-sufficient.

If she came from war ravaged Vietnam, I bet she had a tremendous survival instinct, only her own blood mattered.

I liked his post from the perspective of "be care careful guys." But there is a tad of victimization in there. It does seem maybe he met a woman who was trying to survive and keep her family alive. And he was her out.

I could be 1,000 percent off here also.

Post: #15

"White man evil" ! He might have married an Asian psychopath, who would be far more polite and ingratiating than any western girl, until the gloves come off. She got to ride the late 20th century divorce train. There's always two sides to a story, he might have been an insufferable but hard working guy who was just very unpleasant to be around,

I think it can be hard to alienate kids whose father was around and affectionate when they're growing up. Maybe he was a workaholic, making his futurevex-wife's fortune and thus never had a chance to bond with his kids and she was able to turn them against him.