Post: #26

(03-12-2014 10:00 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 09:55 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 09:49 AM)soup Wrote:  I think that most of the problems our world faces could be dealt with if we raised the level of eduction for everybody on the planet, even by a tiny percent.

Feminists also share that sentiment.

Whats your deal Mage?

You've been attacking a lot of people lately with snarky little remarks along the theme of "Feminists would say that" or "Betas would do that" or "Blue pillers would think that way"?

You actually contradict yourself. "Feminists also share that sentiment" is attempt to shame Soup without offering any valuable counter argument. That is exactly what feminists do.

You got a bit of cabin fever? Have a regular leave the rotation? Something else bothering you?

Why are you getting angry at me? Don't feminists believe that education for women and children in Africa will solve most of world ills? I am simply saying that this is an erroneous way of thinking and feminists are proof of that. People don't need education as much as blue pill world thinks it does. People need truth trough.

We all have remains of blue pill thinking in us, including me. Why are you getting angry if someone points them out?

You actually contradict yourself. Attacking me and trying to shame me for pointing out unpleasant truths is what feminists would do

Post: #27

The article doesn't go into the details of the legal case, but I am skeptical about whether putting a cross on a roadside violates any Constitutional Law. A woman putting up a cross is not state action, even if it is on public land. Many of these cases are lost because the defendant doesn't have adequate legal representation. Also, the city won't be too enthusiastic about her winning the ruling either since if they permit her to put up a cross, then they will also have to allow the local Satanists to put up their symbol. However, I don't think scolding will solve the problem of Atheists being overzealous about their faith. This problem will only be dealt with in the long term by raising the level of education of everybody on the planet.

Post: #28

(03-12-2014 09:49 AM)soup Wrote:  If you are going to write an article about how you think political atheism is lame, you'd be better be writing one on how political theism is as well.

Taking down someone's memorial sign, whether it be a cross, or a white bicycle, or whatever.. that's lame. Usually, those things get taken down after a good amount of time anyway.

It's also not the best way to decry religion.

I don't believe in god, but I also don't believe that trying to directly change people's minds by removing a cross by the side of the road is going to work.

I think that most of the problems our world faces could be dealt with if we raised the level of eduction for everybody on the planet, even by a tiny percent.

If people were more educated in schools about religion- where it comes from, how it evolved etc. then they would see the bullshit it in it.

Soup. The problem is that you believe schooling can be like an institutionalised Socrates, teaching people how to think and creating an enlightened future generation. Reality is that schools are filled with two kinds of people:

1. Administrators and teachers that are just there for the pay and pension.
2. Administrators and teachers that are there to push a cultural marxist agenda.

Thankfully the category one is the majority so pushing the agenda of category two is not so successful. But the idea of school enlightening people is a bit fanciful. School systems are there to indoctrinate. They represent more the society that put Socrates to death and an institutionalised version of the man himself.

Also you seem to begin with an assumption that schooling need to 'decry religion'. That's a odd position to take, and one that if taken would totally delegitimise government in the view of anyone who maintains a religion. Why would they pay taxes to support a system designed as inherently hostile to their fundamental views?

Post: #29

I don't have much value to add here:

But I'm a Marxist and an Atheist. I think removing the cross is absolutely horrible and I also fucking hate feminism

I don't think Leftism or Marxism is at the heart of white-night culture and female empowerment. I think feminism is. Feminism is the evil. Where it once pushed for equality, it later pushed for female superiority. Sadly it worked, and this is the mess we're in.

I like the idea that RooshVForum brings people together from different ideologies and backgrounds in the name if ousting feminism and dropping panties. . You don't have to be right-wing to hate the current lopsided state of gender roles in society

But yeah, this is an instance of Athiests taking life way too seriously. Most athiests who approve of this will never realise that Media has a much greater grasp on proletarian control than a God could ever hope for

Post: #30

Mage, please explain how the proposition "an invisible father figure, originally one tribal god among many, now rules the universe and will decide what happens to my undetectable soul after my brain dies" is red pill. Sounds like classic blue pill wishful thinking to me.
If the cross represents something entirely different to you, feel free to share also.

Post: #31

(03-12-2014 05:47 AM)Mage Wrote:  Don't call them atheists. Speak English. They are godless.

I prefer the term Infidel. Honestly I have no problem with roadside crosses. It doesn't offend me in any way. It may cause some traffic problems by distracting drivers. Other than that it's fine. I believe most religious people are non practicing Christians, Catholics, Muslims or whatever. They go about their daily routine and only turn to religion in their times of need like this woman did. If it helps her out and draws attention and change to a dangerous intersection then all the better. I think that's her indirect goal here anyway.

Post: #32

(03-12-2014 10:32 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 05:47 AM)Mage Wrote:  Don't call them atheists. Speak English. They are godless.

I prefer the term Infidel. Honestly I have no problem with roadside crosses. It doesn't offend me in any way. It may cause some traffic problems by distracting drivers. Other than that it's fine. I believe most religious people are non practicing Christians, Catholics, Muslims or whatever. They go about their daily routine and only turn to religion in their times of need like this woman did. If it helps her out and draws attention and change to a dangerous intersection then all the better. I think that's her indirect goal here anyway.

Yes infidel is even better, but alas my English was not that fluent to recall it, but I am glad someone cough the vibe I wanted to make with this word.

Also my English being not my natural language gives me somewhat limited ways to express myself and I suspect that is why some of you have taken offense, I have never wanted to insult anyone here, the thing is after I show where I find something I disagree with it is hard to make a sentence in an elaborate and soft way. I think my short sentences tend to be brief and therefore may seem rude, but my longer sentences are probably hard to fallow.

Post: #33

This is complete horse shit. I'm an atheist and I could care less about crosses, or mosques. I don't believe in Christmas, but I still buy my loved ones gifts, and say Merry Christmas. I also say Happy Hanukkah, and Ramadan Mubarak to Muslims, and Jews. Because you believe in God or a particular religion is no business of mine. Just like me liking pussy and Guinness is no of your business. Murica!

Post: #34

For the record, anyone who tries to prohibit a mourning mother from putting a cross (or any symbol) at the sight of her son's death is a dispicable piece of shit. I don't believe in God/gods, but there's no way I'd be offended by anyone's private display of religiosity. As someone else said, this is like the secular version of the Westboro Baptist Church.

That said, I think this forum has invented a new logical fallacy: the "appeal to feminism."

"Feminists do/think x, therefore x is wrong" is not an argument. It's just a cheap way to dismiss your opponent's argument.

In this case, the feminists seem to be write: ignorance and lack of education does contribute to a good deal of the world's problems. Ignorant and stupid people are far more easily fooled and manipulated into doing stupid things and electing stupid people into power. I could give two shits if feminists say that, too. If feminists said the sky was blue, would that suddenly make it untrue?

This is very similar to the appeal to Hitler/the Nazis, where people with otherwise weak arguments will try to dismiss something automatically, by coming up with some flimsy association with National-Socialism.

Post: #35

(03-12-2014 10:32 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Mage, please explain how the proposition "an invisible father figure, originally one tribal god among many, now rules the universe and will decide what happens to my undetectable soul after my brain dies" is red pill. Sounds like classic blue pill wishful thinking to me.
If the cross represents something entirely different to you, feel free to share also.

For me God is the masculine principle with all it's virtues. I observe how nature rewards those who approach this principle and punishes those who want to deny it and from this I conclude that universe is somewhat consistent and sentient in enforcing this principle and therefore I deal with it as with a real higher power.

Most people who have problems accepting God, have this strong image of a caricature of God in their heads, created by religious simpletons, something like you described, and old guy with a beard sitting on a cloud monitoring earth or whatever. I believe this is just a visual picture of someones expression of masculine principle, that got popular trough art or literature, but not God. Most people who believe in God have a more serious image of God in their mind, or they are religious simpletons who just find some social benefits in their religious community

Cross reminds me of death, mortality, the briefness and beauty of life as I wrote already before.

Post: #36

(03-12-2014 10:49 AM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  For the record, anyone who tries to prohibit a mourning mother from putting a cross (or any symbol) at the sight of her son's death is a dispicable piece of shit. I don't believe in God/gods, but there's no way I'd be offended by anyone's private display of religiosity. As someone else said, this is like the secular version of the Westboro Baptist Church.

That said, I think this forum has invented a new logical fallacy: the "appeal to feminism."

"Feminists do/think x, therefore x is wrong" is not an argument. It's just a cheap way to dismiss your opponent's argument.

In this case, the feminists seem to be write: ignorance and lack of education does contribute to a good deal of the world's problems. Ignorant and stupid people are far more easily fooled and manipulated into doing stupid things and electing stupid people into power. I could give two shits if feminists say that, too. If feminists said the sky was blue, would that suddenly make it untrue?

This is very similar to the appeal to Hitler/the Nazis, where people with otherwise weak arguments will try to dismiss something automatically, by coming up with some flimsy association with National-Socialism.

You are right that a thing is not wrong just because a feminist also said so. But this is not the case. The idea of education being the salvation, mankind needs is a feminist introduced idea that we are brainwashed with trough and trough and even many who are red pill on some lever are actually still blue pill on this one.

I know many well educated people, but education does not make them smarter, more difficult to fool or whatever. I see educated people making foolish decisions all around the place and I would say that there are some stupid things that educated people are more likely to do then uneducated people, mainly the blue pill stuff we all know about.

Post: #37

(03-12-2014 11:02 AM)Mage Wrote:  You are right that a thing is not wrong just because a feminist also said so. But this is not the case. The idea of education being the salvation, mankind needs is a feminist introduced idea

I somehow doubt that. And even if it is, so what?

Also, education need not be the all encompassing salvation in order to be vital to a society. That it is not in the best interest of a society to be full of ignorant people should be basic knowledge. I can't even believe we're discussing this.

Quote:that we are brainwashed with trough and trough and even many who are red pill on some lever are actually still blue pill on this one.

I know this is going to be unpopular here on RVF, but "bluepill" and "redpill" are not real things. These are the two most overused words on this forum, just catchy phrases people use to make themselves seem more enlightened than others without having to rely on any kind of substance. It's a common trait of an ideologue to categorize and simplify complex things into simple black and white, "us or them" terms.

Quote:I know many well educated people, but education does not make them smarter, more difficult to fool or whatever.

Education does not automatically make you smarter, no, but it does give people the ability to make informed decisions, and if done properly, equips people with critical thinking skills. That there are individuals who are educated and otherwise incompetent or vice versa doesn't change the overall picture that education matters.

Post: #38

(03-12-2014 10:52 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 10:32 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Mage, please explain how the proposition "an invisible father figure, originally one tribal god among many, now rules the universe and will decide what happens to my undetectable soul after my brain dies" is red pill. Sounds like classic blue pill wishful thinking to me.
If the cross represents something entirely different to you, feel free to share also.

For me God is the masculine principle with all it's virtues. I observe how nature rewards those who approach this principle and punishes those who want to deny it and from this I conclude that universe is somewhat consistent and sentient in enforcing this principle and therefore I deal with it as with a real higher power.

Most people who have problems accepting God, have this strong image of a caricature of God in their heads, created by religious simpletons, something like you described, and old guy with a beard sitting on a cloud monitoring earth or whatever. I believe this is just a visual picture of someones expression of masculine principle, that got popular trough art or literature, but not God. Most people who believe in God have a more serious image of God in their mind, or they are religious simpletons who just find some social benefits in their religious community

Cross reminds me of death, mortality, the briefness and beauty of life as I wrote already before.

Then why don't you just call it "the masculine principle" instead of god?

If a god could exist, it would surely be the old man with a beard. The concept of a single God was based on the alpha warlords of the time.

Why don't you believe in Thor and Odin? Those are much more interesting characters to worship- and they definitely are more "masculine" than the old testament god, who seems more like a creepy pervert asking grown men to kill their own children etc.

Post: #39

Another thread turning into atheism vs. religion. Didn't we have a whole bunch of these threads last year where surprisingly the religious side of the forum came out?

As for the OP, what happened to the grieving mother is despicable. People should be allowed to grieve however they want and certainly a roadside memorial is not a big deal. The "atheist organization" should be ashamed of themselves.

As for the rest I am not a big fan of organized religion (nothing to do with this incident). I certainly believe in freedom of religion and people should be allowed to practice whatever they want as long as they are not enforcing it on others.

Post: #40

(03-12-2014 11:30 AM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  Also, education need not be the all encompassing salvation in order to be vital to a society. That it is not in the best interest of a society to be full of ignorant people should be basic knowledge. I can't even believe we're discussing this.

Education matters if you as an individual make good choice of education use of it, which depends more from your family upbringing, making it much more important, but this is not what we are arguing about. The original statement made by soup was :
"most of the problems our world faces could be dealt with if we raised the level of eduction for everybody on the planet, even by a tiny percent."

Which is an exaggeration. Feminists love this exaggeration. This does not mean that this is exaggeration just because feminists say so. Nor is this attack on soup implying that he is a blue pill feminist. But this is an exaggeration made popular by feminists to an extent that even a hardcore non-feminist guy like soup still believes in it. As did I until recently.

(03-12-2014 11:30 AM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  I know this is going to be unpopular here on RVF, but "bluepill" and "redpill" are not real things. These are the two most overused words on this forum, just catchy phrases people use to make themselves seem more enlightened than others without having to rely on any kind of substance. It's a common trait of an ideologue to categorize and simplify complex things into simple black and white, "us or them" terms.

Red pill subculture (a.k.a manosphere) is one thing. And the extent to which the man fallows feminine imperative is another thing.

I suspect that people who say that "Red pill is not real" are the same who would say that "God is not real" - they concentrate on the local and visible while not seeing the global and abstract pattern that the local and visible tries to imperfectly emulate. I am wired differently then such people and it is trouble to explain myself to you. You probably don't understand what I am trying to say sorry but it's hard to explain. It's kinda like in math we have both so called "real numbers" and "imaginary numbers" but we kind of need the imaginary numbers to map reality.

You could even argue that all numbers are just imagined things. Numbers are not real. Yet we use them and benefit from their use.

Post: #41

Mage- you didn't answer my post.

Post: #42

(03-12-2014 11:50 AM)soup Wrote:  Then why don't you just call it "the masculine principle" instead of god?

1.Because it is not abstract, but a real force in nature.
2.Because it is a force every man is personally and intimately connected to, whether aware of it or not, whether calling it by one name or another.
3.Because it explains the patriarchal traditions of religions and their purpose. It shows what is friendly for a man in a religion and what is a superstitious nonsense.

(03-12-2014 11:50 AM)soup Wrote:  If a god could exist, it would surely be the old man with a beard. The concept of a single God was based on the alpha warlords of the time.

That is why God is often drawn in such a way. But he doesn't exist corporaly. Or you could say it does to an extent you embody the masculine principle.
[/quote]

(03-12-2014 11:50 AM)soup Wrote:  Why don't you believe in Thor and Odin? Those are much more interesting characters to worship- and they definitely are more "masculine" than the old testament god, who seems more like a creepy pervert asking grown men to kill their own children etc.

The masculine principle is behind all male gods in all traditional religions, expressed trough the prism of people who worshiped these gods. I do not prioritize one above other. But there are no rune stones near roads where I live. There are just crosses.

Post: #43

(03-12-2014 12:17 PM)soup Wrote:  Mage- you didn't answer my post.

I did as you were writing this. I am not obliged to answer and you could show patience.

Post: #44

(03-12-2014 12:31 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:17 PM)soup Wrote:  Mage- you didn't answer my post.

I did as you were writing this. I am not obliged to answer and you could show patience.

I think crosses are beta compared to the norse religions, and if you worship Christ the hippy, maybe you are bluepill.

Post: #45

(03-12-2014 12:33 PM)soup Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:31 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:17 PM)soup Wrote:  Mage- you didn't answer my post.

I did as you were writing this. I am not obliged to answer and you could show patience.

I think crosses are beta compared to the norse religions, and if you worship Christ the hippy, maybe you are bluepill.

Dude, I like you and respect your opinions 98% of the time, but can the hipster atheist junk. This is unneeded in this argument.

Let the grieving mother put up the cross. Keep it there for a month or two, let the grieving grieve. Then take it down when people begin to move on.

If she wanted to put up a star of david, go for it. If she wants a flying spaghetti monster, hell do it up. Just take the damn thing down after a month or two. The shit isn't harming anyone.

As for calling religious blue pill and "beta", I laugh at you. Read the bible, heck read the Quran, almost everything you will read are allegorical stories for dealing with an assortment of problems both personal and existential. All of the game lessons you'd ever want were written in the bible.

Anyone who is staunchly atheist or staunchly religious are fools. Even more Ironically, the bible mocks people of both sides as idiots which rightfully so they are.

The level of enjoyment and community I get from my Church is more powerful than any bar or club.

Post: #46

(03-12-2014 12:33 PM)soup Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:31 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:17 PM)soup Wrote:  Mage- you didn't answer my post.

I did as you were writing this. I am not obliged to answer and you could show patience.

I think crosses are beta compared to the norse religions, and if you worship Christ the hippy, maybe you are bluepill.

I don't worship anything. I emulate. I emulate from different gods what is worth of emulating in them and nothing else. This is my red pill approach to spirituality. Not religion. I am not religious.

I am not alone in this approach. Many religious people also have this approach naturally and they don't call it red pill, but they live red pill. But most people have a blue pill approach to religion and worship God instead. This is actually the correct thing to do for females, but the problems come when men become beta and adopt feminine mode of spirituality.

You can do anything in a red pill fashion, blue pill fashion or not do it at all.

Approach women at red pill fashion - alpha
Approach women at blue pill fashion - beta
Give up on women, hate/fear them - omega

Do heavy squats and dead lifts in gym - fitness alpha
Do nothing but chest and biceps curls in gym - fitness beta
Don't go to gym and don't train in any other way - fitness omega

Employ people - financial alpha
Get employed - financial beta
Don't work and live in parents basement - financial omega

Similarly in spirituality

Emulate godlike qualities - spiritual alpha
Worship god and those who who emulate him (priests/prophets/pastors) - spiritual beta
Renounce god and spiritual life altogether... - ... well you get the pattern.

Agressive atheists are to spirituality, like pua hate is to this forum.

Post: #47

(03-12-2014 12:50 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:33 PM)soup Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:31 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:17 PM)soup Wrote:  Mage- you didn't answer my post.

I did as you were writing this. I am not obliged to answer and you could show patience.

I think crosses are beta compared to the norse religions, and if you worship Christ the hippy, maybe you are bluepill.

I don't worship anything. I emulate. I emulate from different gods what is worth of emulating in them and nothing else. This is my red pill approach to spirituality. Not religion. I am not religious.

I am not alone in this approach. Many religious people also have this approach naturally and they don't call it red pill, but they live red pill. But most people have a blue pill approach to religion and worship God instead. This is actually the correct thing to do for females, but the problems come when men become beta and adopt feminine mode of spirituality.

You can do anything in a red pill fashion, blue pill fashion or not do it at all.

Approach women at red pill fashion - alpha
Approach women at blue pill fashion - beta
Give up on women, hate/fear them - omega

Do heavy squats and dead lifts in gym - gym alpha
Do nothing but chest and biceps curls in gym - gym beta
Don't go to gym - gym omega

Similarly in spirituality

Emulate godlike qualities - spiritual alpha
Worship god and those who who emulate him (priests/prophets/pastors) - spiritual beta
Renounce god and spiritual life altogether... - ... well you get the patter.

Are you suggesting that you have God game?

Post: #48

(03-12-2014 12:45 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:33 PM)soup Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:31 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:17 PM)soup Wrote:  Mage- you didn't answer my post.

I did as you were writing this. I am not obliged to answer and you could show patience.

I think crosses are beta compared to the norse religions, and if you worship Christ the hippy, maybe you are bluepill.

Dude, I like you and respect your opinions 98% of the time, but can the hipster atheist junk. This is unneeded in this argument.

Let the grieving mother put up the cross. Keep it there for a month or two, let the grieving grieve. Then take it down when people begin to move on.

If she wanted to put up a star of david, go for it. If she wants a flying spaghetti monster, hell do it up. Just take the damn thing down after a month or two. The shit isn't harming anyone.

As for calling religious blue pill and "beta", I laugh at you. Read the bible, heck read the Quran, almost everything you will read are allegorical stories for dealing with an assortment of problems both personal and existential. All of the game lessons you'd ever want were written in the bible.

Anyone who is staunchly atheist or staunchly religious are fools. Even more Ironically, the bible mocks people of both sides as idiots which rightfully so they are.

The level of enjoyment and community I get from my Church is more powerful than any bar or club.

Dude, read my first post. I said let her leave it up, dude.

Are you calling me a fool?

Post: #49

mage brother, I think you're putting to much emphasis on what is alpha or beta/red pill or blue pill.

Your saying to live life on your own terms and take the best parts of different ideologies and combine them together to become a better person. I agree with that, you just gotta find better ways to express it besides putting a label on it.

Post: #50

(03-12-2014 12:52 PM)soup Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:45 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:33 PM)soup Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:31 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 12:17 PM)soup Wrote:  Mage- you didn't answer my post.

I did as you were writing this. I am not obliged to answer and you could show patience.

I think crosses are beta compared to the norse religions, and if you worship Christ the hippy, maybe you are bluepill.

Dude, I like you and respect your opinions 98% of the time, but can the hipster atheist junk. This is unneeded in this argument.

Let the grieving mother put up the cross. Keep it there for a month or two, let the grieving grieve. Then take it down when people begin to move on.

If she wanted to put up a star of david, go for it. If she wants a flying spaghetti monster, hell do it up. Just take the damn thing down after a month or two. The shit isn't harming anyone.

As for calling religious blue pill and "beta", I laugh at you. Read the bible, heck read the Quran, almost everything you will read are allegorical stories for dealing with an assortment of problems both personal and existential. All of the game lessons you'd ever want were written in the bible.

Anyone who is staunchly atheist or staunchly religious are fools. Even more Ironically, the bible mocks people of both sides as idiots which rightfully so they are.

The level of enjoyment and community I get from my Church is more powerful than any bar or club.

Dude, read my first post. I said let her leave it up, dude.

Are you calling me a fool?

You know what, my bad brother. I totally jumped to conclusions on this one not to mention my post was 100% douchy in tone.

Sorry about that