Post: #1

Just for the hell of it, I decided to work on a tool that I've been pondering for the last few months. I've referred to it, myself, simply, as the Grid.

The Grid, on its surface, is a template rating system for providing data on life opportunities around the world. Basically, it looks at a number of aspects (ratings categories) for each geographical location (herein, a "GL" - can you tell I'm an attorney ) (which can be a city/region/country) and gives it ratings based upon research, user response, and empirical data (for those categories that can be rated in those manners, such as cost of living)). It will be an attempt on some level to remove excessive subjectivity from the perceptions of a GL which arise from the very helpful but often highly subject and possible aging data sheets submitted by members of the Forum (and available elsewhere).

This attempt to remove subjectivity is largely based on two different factors. The first is the instant survey element of posting a new GL (based on members immediate responses to the scores/ratings of a GL), which removes it from being simply a data sheet compilation (which would be a non-significant sample size compilation of subjective perceptions, and perhaps not as robust scientifically as a result) and into the realm of something more mathematically objective (assuming the responses are of a significant enough quantity - obviously this can be an issue with respect to GL's that aren't heavily trafficked by forum members or other potential participants).

The second is the survey-over-time element of the Grid, which should hopefully allow its results to be dynamic (after all, GL's change over time due to numerous factors) and allowing members to provide feedback w/r/t the ratings so the Grid itself doesn't age the same way that data sheets do.

The Grid, its formulation and mechanics, and even its presentation, will be a work in progress. If it seems worthwhile, I'd like to see it become something of a web-based dynamic system, where new ratings from recent travelers work into an algorithm for a GL's category rating, perhaps given greater weight due to both i) recency, and ii) the level of contributions by the "rater" (or potentially based on their Roosh V Forum Reputation rating). Again, its an idea that I am working on, nothing about it should be considered set in stone, and I've no thought in mind that my ideas with respect to it are final or preferable. I'm not only open to collaborating on it, but for this to have a successful application, the collaboration is indispensable (especially any elements of it that become web-interactive, because I haven't the vaguest idea how to do any of that basic level programming anyway). In addition, without feedback, the Grid won't reflect a substantial sample size for the GL's and its ratings wouldn't be meaningful. Finally, I've been to 45 countries, gamed and lived in far fewer, and I cannot provide starting point data for those GL's - so I'd like to have people volunteer to provide starting point data on some prominent GL's (and perhaps some not-so-prominent ones) in order to populate the Grid.

The Grid, in my opinion, could be a useful way to keep data more fresh and current, when long periods of time exist between well-considered data sheets from credible forum members. In addition, it can provide a first layer research tool for those considering striking out to a GL, but not having a strong preference (or confirming their preference), and allow them to compare their initial choice to others they may not have considered.

Of course, any survey like this, and the reports derived from it, will have their limitations, and I hope to have some help from all of you to figure out how to minimize these. Like most tools, its not intended to be all things to all people, just a useful tool to help the research along. Even within categories, though, there is a subjective basis - what I think is a good ass or good cuisine is not the same as what some others might prefer - and I'll attempt to work around this bias by the sampling process and also by making ratings categories specific enough to allow users to derive information that is detailed in a manner that lets them make their choice.

I'll post a work-up of the template shortly, a sample grid entries for three cities with which I am intensely familiar, Shenzhen, Manila, and New York. I'm hopeful that people will comment not only on the scores but all on the categories, because there are many potential ratings categories and I am sure I'll have left many out.

Thanks for your interest.

Post: #2

OK, so here's a first sample of the categories and ratings for three cities - posted more for comment on the categories included (to see which categories comments might think should be added (or subtracted), more than for the actual ratings provided (though I did give some thought to those ratings based on my experiences so perhaps they'll be useful as starting points).

Post: #3

I like the idea, more objective. With a lot of guys pitching in this could be the project manhattan of our time, ha. However, wouldnt this ruin the places we love, at the same time?

But there should probably be a category for end tally... probably points against to make stat significant ?Sort of the CARVER method.

This has potential. Id participate.

Post: #4

Fort - thanks for your feedback, it was just me and the crickets in here.

I don't think it replaces a visit to the GL, or even the Forum in any way. There's no detail, no intelligence in the Grid itself. The Grid itself would simply be a top level research tool, a ten thousand foot view of the landscape. It isn't designed to provide the necessary detail that one obtains from the interaction on the threads here. I do think that it provides a useful tool, if its well-populated, but its simply an arrow to use to point you towards more investigation on how to execute in a given GL. Does it make choosing a GL a more "Efficient Market" in an economic sense - maybe, if its truly successful and adopted, but there are so many more factors that go into it, I don't think we have to worry to much. Roosh itself provides much more information in that regard anyway.

I've already "assigned" a few more cities to people who are very experienced at a particular GL - I'd like to assign more, or simply have people say, hey, I know X City, here is my thoughts on starting points for the criteria listed.

I am not sure I follow you on the end tally category, can you provide more detail? I'd certainly like to add statistical significance to the model.

Post: #5

I like the idea as well and could give some starting stats on a few cities. For this to become valid we would need a lot of participation though.

Post: #6

Yes, Rotten, to be sure, and that's exactly the point - without the participation, it doesn't work, and wouldn't be valid statistically. Which cities were you interested in, and whats the basis for your credibility, if you don't mind sharing it, for those cities/GLs.

Post: #7

By end tally I mean a grand total. Making browsing simpler, listing easier. Then people can dive in into the more esoteric.

Post: #8

(03-17-2014 10:19 AM)G_global Wrote:  Yes, Rotten, to be sure, and that's exactly the point - without the participation, it doesn't work, and wouldn't be valid statistically. Which cities were you interested in, and whats the basis for your credibility, if you don't mind sharing it, for those cities/GLs.

I lived in Madrid (Spain), Antwerp (Belgium), Kigali (Rwanda), El Paso (US) and Esmeraldas (Ecuador). Furthermore I visited a whole lot of cities in Europe, Africa, US and S.America but I think people should only give data for those cities where they have expert intel on. Perhaps you should contact people writing recent datasheets through PM and have them give their brief input to build a baseline.

Post: #9

You could use google docs if you could somehow protect or make copies so that some troll doesn't get in there and fuck shit up.

dontuan dropped this. /thread-34368.html

I thought it was good maybe some thoughts could be incorporated into your analysis.

Post: #10

I fully endorse this idea. I actually had a dream about something similar to this a few weeks ago but I couldn't remember the details, so I'm glad someone else thought it up. Yes, I have odd dreams.

Post: #11

I actually did contact a few posters that had extensive experience in a locale and am awaiting their responses for the grid start points for three or four different locations. I agree that it would be best to start with "expert" intel,as while there will still be a subjectivity issue with the starting points, we hopefully would create less initial bias in the ratings which would influence further contributors' ratings. I'd like to try to eliminate that in several ways, and the starting point would be the first line of defense.

I'd invite people again to suggest a city for which they'd consider themselves an expert, to express why they think they so qualify, and then if its agreeable, to provide the starting point data.

I've had an offer from a forum member of assistance in building the web-interface for the grid, but for now I think its fine for the raw data to be posted and exist on this thread, to be copied into an online non-interactive database until an interactive system can be established.

Thoughts?

Post: #12

G_global applaud the effort.

I guess the one thing that starts to happen is (random order of thoughts - I am sure there are more):
1) Who is qualified to contribute
2) Who gets access
3) Lots of lurkers that don't give much mainly read - so once the honey pot is discovered - salty fuckers will overwhelm the city

There was some discussion a while ago about sharing pics - because guys are curious, etc. It didn't go anywhere and I think Roosh (just from a bad memory here) said something about not excluding or something like that.

Post: #13

Sam, your questions are definitely worth addressing. I hope others will chime in on what they think the appropriate ways to address them are. At some point, though, the "buck" stops and someone has to make a decision. An administrator. For lack of a better choice, and given the generation of the concept (which I doubt is unique), its me. However, again, the robustness of any model comes from a number of factors, and amongst the most important is data quality. I'm hoping to receive quite a bit of helping parsing for good data.

Can you explain what you mean about the sharing pics thing a little more, and how it relates to this concept?

Post: #14

^^ If you make it open to everyone then it won't be a big deal. It was an attempt by some to limit it to those who have been around for a while or had value to offer. It wasn't for people who just popped on and wanted to take and not give.

If you make it open to everyone then there won't be a problem except that those areas you find may be flooded by a bunch of anonymous people who lurk a lot. And if it is any good then people from other forums. I may be exaggerating, but I am just trying to be supportive and have some strategy/thought put into it.

Not saying you will do this, let me be clear, not saying you will do this. But if you attempt to monetize it you will have a series of other issues.

Just some free form thoughts here.

Post: #15

I'm not expecting to monetize it (at least not directly). I make enough money from my primary occupations and I don't think something like this would necessarily be material in that regard.

Perhaps I am not explaining what the concept is well enough - its basically a survey device. You can register for it, and then you'll enter your data, and it gets fed into an algorithm for the GL. The GL's scores modify based on the ALG, which should be based on timing, credibility (have to figure out how to assign that) and some other factors. The original scores for a GL should be provided by a highly credible source, someone who spent a lot of time in that GL and someone who perhaps has significant reputation points which supports that their postings have been helpful. The underlying original data would be given a strong factor in the ALG, and like you said, the ends of each curve should be lopped off (i.e. if the vast majority people rate Ukraine cost of living a 5-6, the ALG should likely disregard for the most parts, ratings of if vastly varying from the norm, 1,2, 10).
I provided information on three cities I know well to very well for starters. I wouldn't mind upgrading to someone else's base input on Manila, but I feel like my info is fairly strong (three trips there). NY and Shenzhen I have no reservations about. But I've yet to receive feedback or an offer to provide base GL data on any other city from any other forum member, much less someone that would be deemed credible to provide this necessary starting point data.

I expect we'll have the template up soon, though I want to build this thread, and thus interest in the Grid, before taking the template live for input to the broader readership.

Can you answer my question above regarding the photos?

Post: #16

(03-24-2014 09:42 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  ^^ If you make it open to everyone then it won't be a big deal. It was an attempt by some to limit it to those who have been around for a while or had value to offer. It wasn't for people who just popped on and wanted to take and not give.

Maybe I wasn't clear but this was in reference to the photos. It was an attempt to make the photo sharing more exclusive. This is my recollection, I wasn't there when it first happened stumbled across a thread on it a long time ago.

I appreciate what you are trying to build. But you will have a lot of dudes who never even post a single thing using your resource. And they may damage the paradise you are trying to identify. Do what you wish, not trying to be a pain, I always like ideas being created and developed. This reminds me of consulting projects I did years ago. Different scores, weighting, etc.

Post: #17

Sam, please don't think that my questions are negative feedback to what you're suggestion. To the contrary I desire thoughtful input and collaboration. You're not being a pain at all, and I hope you'll continue to make suggestions as it evolves.

I have an issue in general with people being reliant on purely anecdotal evidence and then sharing their "knowledge" without conditioning its receipt on the fact that its one person's experience (sometimes not even a first person experience, but something they heard from a friend). I don't care so much if the lurkers use the resource, but I care, of course, if they make the resource unreliable because they're voting on things they haven't experienced first hand. Hopefully, we can figure out a way for the algorithm and a screening process perhaps to prevent that taking the GL scores too far in an imaginary direction. That's one of the very things I am looking for input on so that the Grid can provide a more robust and reliable system and data.

Post: #18

Not at all. You are putting the effort into it, you believe it has value to you. I can never fault anyone for trying to create something. I just try to think of long term/unintended stuff. All in an attempt to have a clear view on a matter. Best of luck!

Post: #19

(03-16-2014 05:23 AM)G_global Wrote:  OK, so here's a first sample of the categories and ratings for three cities - posted more for comment on the categories included (to see which categories comments might think should be added (or subtracted), more than for the actual ratings provided (though I did give some thought to those ratings based on my experiences so perhaps they'll be useful as starting points).

What a fabulous idea. I actually just started putting together something similar more focused on cost of living. But the idea of quantifying all the data with regards to pick-up, etc. is beautiful. You could collect data and vet the contributors. Similarly, you could even come up with a weighting system based on how much time the contributor spent in the particular destination. Enforcing truth an issue of course. If I can help in any way, please let me know. Something like this over time could be a great resource.

Post: #20

(03-16-2014 05:23 AM)G_global Wrote:  OK, so here's a first sample of the categories and ratings for three cities - posted more for comment on the categories included (to see which categories comments might think should be added (or subtracted), more than for the actual ratings provided (though I did give some thought to those ratings based on my experiences so perhaps they'll be useful as starting points).

Forgot to mention: if and when you start compiling, I should be help with data on the following:
-NYC
-Miami
-San Francisco
-Rio
-Jakarta
-Medellin
-Cali
-Bogota
and perhaps a few others

Post: #21

What we need most is a coder, to set the damn thing up. I'm revisiting moving it forward as it dovetails well with my traveler thread.

Post: #22

(08-06-2014 10:24 PM)Global Entry Wrote:  What we need most is a coder, to set the damn thing up. I'm revisiting moving it forward as it dovetails well with my traveler thread.

I've learning some Python, not enough to probably be the guy on this project yet though. I actually wanted to make an app very similar to this, where you could get data from Numbeo.com to figure out which country you should travel to within your budget and then get other data to figure out which matches your preferences best. You can do some cool things with stats and APIs like if you get the number of high heels sold through Zappos etc, then you could get some idea of the feminity of women or use other data sources. The only problem is that Numbeo charges several k euros a year for access to their API, so that killed the idea somewhat.