Post: #1

Not sure if this has been adressed anywhere else on the forum but this has been bothering me.

Having been in relationships with several asian girls before, I always appreciated the traditions and values, gender roles if you will, they hold on to. This makes asian women much more appealing to me. Having moved to a bigger city where I now study, I have come across several asian girls who came here on exchange. These girls seem entirely different. Their desire for a carreer has made them leave their country and they now spend most of their off-time sleeping with European men. Can anyone clarify? Should these girls be seen as bad apples? Or do even asian women now prefer carreers over men?

Post: #2

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that any woman who leaves their country (by choice) to go to another to study/work is following a more masculine approach to being in the world (taking action). In other words her relation to the masculine is through a career, instead of through serving a husband and family.

Where did you meet and have the relationships with the "good" Asian women? In Asia?

Post: #3

Met them over in my hometown in The Netherlands. But these were all girls who stayed inside very "asian social circles". Also raised in very asian ways as their parents had to make it here by themselves. I managed to get into these social circles and it has paid off so far. What you said makes sense. I might be able to grasp this concept someday.So far it confuses me to no end

Post: #4

Depends. I have had relationships with Asian girls when I lived in Asia and with Asian girls when I went back to my own country. Those who have moved to a western country by themselves will before long not be dissimilar to your average western slut. Those who have migrated with their family are usually more traditional.

Post: #5

(03-16-2014 10:06 AM)nogamenick Wrote:  Met them over in my hometown in The Netherlands. But these were all girls who stayed inside very "asian social circles". Also raised in very asian ways as their parents had to make it here by themselves. I managed to get into these social circles and it has paid off so far. What you said makes sense. I might be able to grasp this concept someday.So far it confuses me to no end

It sounds like you see pretty well. Are you trying to grasp why a woman would choose that path? If so, I think it's because they have been mislead by western culture that to be an "independent" woman who calls the shots and doesn't need anyone, is the answer of how to have being. It's not a concious decision on their part so much as an unconcious one thrust upon them by the zeitgeist.

Why is the current zeitgeist this way? I don't know, it would be like knowing why God allows children to be born Autistic. It's been said, in the end, everything is supposed to be the way it is to allow us to "wake up" and gain knowledge about ourselves, life, the universe, God, or whatever one wants to call it.

That said, it doesn't mean that us men have to subscribe to modern, western, gender roles. There are the "betas" that do, and there are many stories of how they have paid dearly for doing so.

Keep in mind though there has always been a war between the sexes going on since the dawn of time. Men want the woman to subscribe to the masculine view of reality (logic, reason, identity, principles/ideals, the other-worldy) while women want men to subscribe to the feminine view (intuition, feelings, equality, mercy, the worldly)

So even in a perfect Asian type family, while the woman may be submissive, it wouldn't surprise me if she were wise enough to know how to turn her husband's head in the direction she wants it to be. She will certainly try, but in a good way I'm sure.

Even when the Father says the child can't have desert because he didn't get an A on an important test, and the wife pleads to let him because he tried his hardest and still passed. There is really a war here going on between the Masculine and Feminine views of how the world should be.

True love I guess.

Post: #6

Read the Roosh article: http://www.rooshv.com/the-true-nature-of-women

The truth is that women are all the same. They will conform to what society tells them to do and allows them to do. There is no fundamental difference between the asian woman and the white woman, except I suppose Asian women might have less testosterone and more estrogen.

Post: #7

(03-16-2014 10:52 AM)Onto Wrote:  Why is the current zeitgeist this way? I don't know, it would be like knowing why God allows children to be born Autistic. It's been said, in the end, everything is supposed to be the way it is to allow us to "wake up" and gain knowledge about ourselves, life, the universe, God, or whatever one wants to call it.

Perhaps it is because we as a society are trying to fill a void with another void. For thousands of years, God/religion was a dominant force keeping women in line with the cult of virginity (i.e., with what men desire from women). The fact that there was a very REAL consequence to slutty behavior (pregnancy, in the days before birth control and legal, easily accessible abortion) helped reinforce this. Now, religion and God, while still followed by born-agains, muslims and others, has receded to a point where it is no longer the dominant cultural zeitgeist. So feminism & women pretending to be like men has filled the void. This is contrived and unnatural, and therefore unsustainable.

But why is there a void? Perhaps it is because what came before it was also contrived, also an artifice trying to fill a void in women's search for contentment. There is no evidence of God. We can go to the moon, we have seen the furthest reaches of the universe with ever more powerful telescoples - but we've never seen the slightest indication of this God character. Is there something beyond this human reality, some greater collective consciousness? Possibly. I believe there is. But its absurd the way we have anthropomorphized it into a human like character, with a son (or a prophet named Muhammad, or Buddha, or what have you). How could the replacement for a fairy tale be anything but another contrivance?

Women (and men and children, and therefore society) would be well-served to accept the following:

There is no God as he is portrayed in the bible, or Koran, or what have you. There may be some greater intelligence, but we don't know what it is, and it almost certainly doesn't care if you eat shellfish or pork or meat on Friday during Lent. It does not care if you face east to Mecca to pray 5x a day. All there is, in this life, is our natural reality: Men and women are complementary and have different strengths and weaknesses. Men's strength comes from DOING and ACHIEVING and as such they are the natural leaders of the family and society. Women's strengths come from their ability to create life, and nurture it, and make life more pleasant for that family unit if they choose to. They serve that role - and therefore themselves, since it is their true nature - best under the dominance of a strong man.

Post: #8

Thanks the both of you! Looking back I see there was a lot of that behaviour. The wife trying to turn her husband's head. But mostly in a very loving way.

Having read the Roosh article, this makes sense to me. This being a "student city" of course these girls are going to betray some of the morals they were raised with. I suppose I have to let it slide and simply take from this container what these girls offer. Thanks for the insight!

Post: #9

I live in East Asia, and here's what I see around here. I don't even believe it's a matter of what women do or don't want. East Asia is undergoing massive societal upheaval right now. It could go any way, of course, but there's a pretty good chance that several of these societies are going to be in even more dire straits than the West within a generation.

Asia eats its own. It's as simple as that. I know, and have known, tons of women who have had kids and have been back at work within a month. I know teachers -- government workers! -- who have been back at work within three months. Whether it's mandated by their employer or economics is irrelevant. Asians have bought into consumerism in a massive way. Taipei has one of the world's largest property bubbles. The average 20-something can expect to earn 20,000-30,000TWD/month (1US = 30TWD). A dog box in Taipei will easily set them back 10,000TWD/month. So they're paying up to 50% of their income in rent. They basically live hand to mouth, and most of them I have met, even if in a relationship, say that they have absolutely no desire to have kids. Those who earn more than average spend it on designer crap and/or holidays abroad.

Of course, outside of the major cities, things are much, much cheaper, but then where are the jobs? Basically, unless they marry a guy making bank, women simply don't have the choice to work or not work. They must work. Even then, they debate whether to have kids or not, and if they have kids, more often than not, they have only one or two. Look at East Asian TFRs. I have met tons of professional couples where they simply can't afford to have more than one kid. Then they outsource that kid to after school "cram schools" that are as much about the babysitting as the learning.

Then there is a whole demographic of people living with their parents, but in many cases, that money will run out eventually anyway. Regardless, there's a huge population of women subsisting on say, 30,000-40,000TWD/month in their 30s. They live like grown up, asexual eleven year olds. That allows them to fund their yoga classes and overseas holidays, but by that point, they're completely washed up.

As for traditional gender roles, those are basically gone for many. The women are more feminine overall, but because of the extremely long hours people put in (even if they don't work hard during them), everyone eats out here. Hardly anyone cooks at home, including women. Many women now simply don't know how to cook. God knows how much actual domestic work gets done.

Asian women going abroad is partly because they've bought into the modern ideal, but it's also because there is an educational arms race in Asia that is absolutely insane. There are no high paying blue collar jobs here like in the West, and women don't work those kinds of jobs anyway. Basically, if you don't have a prestigious degree, you don't get a good job, and then your life sucks.

Post: #10

(03-16-2014 11:12 AM)The Father Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 10:52 AM)Onto Wrote:  Why is the current zeitgeist this way? I don't know, it would be like knowing why God allows children to be born Autistic. It's been said, in the end, everything is supposed to be the way it is to allow us to "wake up" and gain knowledge about ourselves, life, the universe, God, or whatever one wants to call it.

Perhaps it is because we as a society are trying to fill a void with another void. For thousands of years, God/religion was a dominant force keeping women in line with the cult of virginity (i.e., with what men desire from women). The fact that there was a very REAL consequence to slutty behavior (pregnancy, in the days before birth control and legal, easily accessible abortion) helped reinforce this. Now, religion and God, while still followed by born-agains, muslims and others, has receded to a point where it is no longer the dominant cultural zeitgeist. So feminism & women pretending to be like men has filled the void. This is contrived and unnatural, and therefore unsustainable.

But why is there a void? Perhaps it is because what came before it was also contrived, also an artifice trying to fill a void in women's search for contentment. There is no evidence of God. We can go to the moon, we have seen the furthest reaches of the universe with ever more powerful telescoples - but we've never seen the slightest indication of this God character. Is there something beyond this human reality, some greater collective consciousness? Possibly. I believe there is. But its absurd the way we have anthropomorphized it into a human like character, with a son (or a prophet named Muhammad, or Buddha, or what have you). How could the replacement for a fairy tale be anything but another contrivance?

Women (and men and children, and therefore society) would be well-served to accept the following:

There is no God as he is portrayed in the bible, or Koran, or what have you. There may be some greater intelligence, but we don't know what it is, and it almost certainly doesn't care if you eat shellfish or pork or meat on Friday during Lent. It does not care if you face east to Mecca to pray 5x a day. All there is, in this life, is our natural reality: Men and women are complementary and have different strengths and weaknesses. Men's strength comes from DOING and ACHIEVING and as such they are the natural leaders of the family and society. Women's strengths come from their ability to create life, and nurture it, and make life more pleasant for that family unit if they choose to. They serve that role - and therefore themselves, since it is their true nature - best under the dominance of a strong man.

Well, certainly one should do their best to look at what religious stories, characters, and customs are telling and representing from a "symbolic" point of view, instead of a literal one. If that is done, then the truth expressed in religion can be seen.

Truth doesn't change, but it can change form. Whether it's religion, a great movie, a TV commercial, or a funny joke, the "truth" is being told to us, through us, hoping that we will see it. Truth isn't like finding a needle in a haystack, it is the haystack. One just has to have the courageous desire to pick a needle and look.

That said, I liked what you wrote about Men and Women's strengths

Post: #11

(03-16-2014 08:48 PM)Onto Wrote:  Well, certainly one should do their best to look at what religious stories, characters, and customs are telling and representing from a "symbolic" point of view, instead of a literal one. If that is done, then the truth expressed in religion can be seen.

Truth doesn't change, but it can change form. Whether it's religion, a great movie, a TV commercial, or a funny joke, the "truth" is being told to us, through us, hoping that we will see it. Truth isn't like finding a needle in a haystack, it is the haystack. One just has to have the courageous desire to pick a needle and look.

That said, I liked what you wrote about Men and Women's strengths

There is a lot of truth about human nature in the ancient religious texts (if not about God himself...I seriously doubt God cares what we eat!). For example, the Garden of Eden story clearly indicates that men are happy and live an idyllic existence, though lonely, until women came along. But once a woman is on the scene, his loneliness (and horniness) may vanish, but it is replaced by trouble. And women are the cause of that strife. Malcontent. Disobedient. Stubborn and strong-willed. Always seeking MORE. My god, the author of this story was pretty red pill!

If the bible had stopped here, it might've been a useful book of allegories. But by going so much further (basically making up stories that seem unlikely to be true - God has a "son" and he was born to a virgin...oh please...how can anyone believe such a moronic fairly tale), once an enlightenment period comes, ALL of the bible -- including the very useful values it implies - gets thrown in the rubbish bin.

And we end up with the rudderless society we have now.

Post: #12

BTW I apologize if my agnosticism offends any one. These are just my beliefs; you of course have your own. I have no idea who is right and am in no hurry to find out!

Post: #13

(03-16-2014 09:32 AM)nogamenick Wrote:  Should these girls be seen as bad apples? Or do even asian women now prefer careers over men?

Yes and no.

If you want to meet a "good" Asian girl, go to the country, learn the language and meet a local girl with little proficiency in English. Generally the better girls are found outside of major cities but that's just a generalization.

There are tons of great girls here in Japan. I have dated several that I could have easily married.

The girl I am dating now is stunning and was yet somehow still a virgin at 23. She cooks amazingly well and is just feminine all round. She works but she is the opposite of a career girl. It's as if everything she does is for my pleasure.

Lately I joke to friends that I have no defense against this kind of girl and it's (almost) true!

Post: #14

Sounds like you're living the dream! I would live it up to no end in Japan. Thinking I should plan a visit. It seems to me the girls who live in the far away places are less in touch with things like feminism and Western influence. These women should be the perfect wofe material (should there be such a thing) to any man