Post: #1

I'm going to do a quick data sheet on how to keep your hair.

Your three tools:

1. Finasteride

Cost: $35 for 100 pills, 1/4 pill per day, skip every fifth day = $34.46/500 days = $0.07 per day. There's some debate, but studies suggest that for inhibiting the hormone responsible for male hair loss, taking more than 0.20 mg per day doesn't have much effect. You might need as little as .05 mg per day to get maximum day.

If you really wanted to save money, you could get the generic 5 mg finasteride at a cost of $0.01 per day, but that would require grinding up the finasteride and dissolving it in everclear and drinking it via a dropper. Lots of room for fucking up there, and it's not clear how alcohol would affect the drug's effectiveness.

http://www2.costco.com/Pharmacy/DrugInfo...INASTERIDE

In mid-2015, dutasteride will become generic. Studies suggest it is superior to finasteride in promoting hair growth and suppressing the hormone responsible for hair loss, DHT. When it goes generic, I myself will look into switching to it. It's pricey right now, something like 1000 times more expensive than finasteride as I've described it, so I never considered using it.

2. Minoxidil

6 month supply at Costco = $26.49. Cost per day = 26.49/182.5 = $0.145 per day. Personally, I use about half the recommended amount, because if I used more it would just drip off. I actually use Lipogaine, but I'm on my first bottle and will not buy it again. It used to have an additional, possibly beneficial ingredient, but it no longer does, so it's not worth the expense.

http://www.costco.com/Kirkland-Signature...01138.html

Target also has minoxidil, although I believe it's not as cheap.

3. Ketoconazole Shampoo

Regenepure DR - $25 for 8 oz - maybe I'm being stingy, but it'll take me 2-3 months to use this up, so say $10 a month. Ketoconazole shampoo is the priciest thing here and probably the least backed by studies, but I'm giving it a shot on the recommendation of Good Looking Loser and others. I only shower two to three times a week, and use this about twice a week.

It's the best shampoo I've ever used - it makes my hair full and soft, and removes the oiliness that accumulates, without drying out the hair. I used baking soda and ACV before, and Dr. Bronner's before that, and now no longer do. If I want to wash my hair, I use this. I've never used high end shampoos though, besides Paul Mitchell and Kirkland, so I can't compare to those. There's another Regenepure product, Regenepure NT, that's supposed to be good, but it lacks the active ingredient responsible for fighting hair loss, so I don't use it.

Total cost of my regimen: about $15 a month. If you have long hair or use shampoo frequently, it will be $20-25+ a month.

If you cut out the shampoo, which has the least clinical backing I believe, it costs about $5-6 a month. This is one of the cheapest and most effective aesthetic interventions or supplements you can take, if it works for you and you don't get major side effects. As far as I know, anything in addition to this regiment would be vastly more expensive or lacking in efficacy or both. If you have any suggestions for affordable effective treatments, post them.

I've been using finasteride for a while, but only recently added the shampoo and minoxidil. When generic dutasteride becomes available, I'll check that out.

Where to buy: Online for Regenepure, Costco, Walmart or Target for the minoxidil and the finasteride.

Post: #2

Nice idea for a sheet, I think there's been some hair loss stuff posted in the past, but one thing I always wondered, are there ways that are better than others to objectively determine if the products are working?

How do you know which ones are having which effect, and how do you measure/track the progress?

Post: #3

Delete

Post: #4

(05-18-2014 05:33 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  Nice idea for a sheet, I think there's been some hair loss stuff posted in the past, but one thing I always wondered, are there ways that are better than others to objectively determine if the products are working?

How do you know which ones are having which effect, and how do you measure/track the progress?

Honestly, it can be hard or impossible to tell. These three, particularly the first two, are the most well received and have clinical studies backing them. I do feel like my hair loss would have been much greater had I not done anything, judging by what's happened to close relatives and the kind of hair I have.

Personally, I saw my hairline receding a bit, caught it early and started taking the meds without experiencing much in the way of side effects - certainly little that I could ascribe to the finasteride. There's a lot of baldness in my family, and I'm confident I'd start balding like my dad did, well before 40, so preventive treatment was a smart choice.

Will it entirely prevent hair loss? No. Will it give you extra years with hair? Probably. There's still recession over time, but the hope is that these meds make it less than what it would have been.

Post: #5

(05-18-2014 05:42 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

(05-18-2014 05:33 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  Nice idea for a sheet, I think there's been some hair loss stuff posted in the past, but one thing I always wondered, are there ways that are better than others to objectively determine if the products are working?

How do you know which ones are having which effect, and how do you measure/track the progress?

Honestly, it can be hard or impossible to tell. These three, particularly the first two, are the most well received and have clinical studies backing them. I do feel like my hair loss would have been much greater had I not done anything, judging by what's happened to close relatives and the kind of hair I have.

Personally, I saw my hairline receding a bit, caught it early and started taking the meds without experiencing much in the way of side effects - certainly little that I could ascribe to the finasteride. There's a lot of baldness in my family, and I'm confident I'd start balding like my dad did, well before 40, so preventive treatment was a smart choice.

Will it entirely prevent hair loss? No. Will it give you extra years with hair? Probably. There's still recession over time, but the hope is that these meds make it less than what it would have been.

(05-18-2014 05:39 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  Basil, I'm stunned by this post.

You are the guy who always goes on about eating everything natural to the extent that you're worried about cooking your food in a microwave. Yet you are taking finasteride, a drug that directly fucks with your androgen hormone systems and blocks the production of DHT which is the most important product of testosterone?

What the fuck -- do you want to suddenly wake up one day and find that you can't get your dick up even for the sweetest hispanic slut in LA county? Or that you can but don't particularly care to because you're just "not into that stuff anymore"?

These are just a few excerpts from the finasteride wiki:

Quote:Sexual side effects

There are case reports of persistent diminished libido or erectile dysfunction, even after stopping the drug.[19] In December 2008, the Swedish Medical Products agency concluded a safety investigation of finasteride and advised that finasteride may cause irreversible sexual dysfunction. The Agency's updated safety information lists difficulty in obtaining an erection that persists indefinitely, even after the discontinuation of finasteride, as a possible side effect of the drug.[20] The UK's Medical and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) cites reports of erectile dysfunction that persists once use of finasteride has stopped.[citation needed][21] In April 2011 Merck revised the United States' warning in consumer and medical leaflets to include erectile dysfunction that may persist after stopping finasteride.[22] In April 2012, the warning label was further strengthened to include reports of persistent libido disorders, ejaculation disorders, orgasm disorders, and decreased libido. According to FDA, these warnings were added as precaution after reviewing 678 case reports of post-treatment sexual dysfunction received over an 18 year period. The Agency further stated that "despite the fact that clear causal links between finasteride (Propecia and Proscar) and sexual adverse events have NOT been established, the cases suggest a broader range of adverse effects than previously reported in patients taking these drugs.".[23][24][25]

Quote:A study comparing depression in impotent men with a history of exposure to finasteride found that they experienced greater depression and suicidal ideation relative to non-impotent men without a history of finasteride exposure. The authors did not comment on the relative extent to which sexual dysfunction and prior finasteride treatment might have contributed to the depression.[30]

Quote:Finasteride is sometimes used in hormone replacement therapy for male-to-female transsexuals in combination with a form of estrogen due to its antiandrogen properties.[9][10]

I understand that you don't want to lose your hair but you're going to take an androgen suppressor to achieve that and fuck with your most important hormonal system? What kind of sense that make?

Yeah I'm aware of the side effects, but the number of men who experience them are small, and aside from some probably natural fluctuation, I don't think my libido has been too effected - I almost always have a high sex drive and have not had an ED issue with a girl almost ever.

It's a choice every guy has to make. Are there natural alternatives to achieving the objective of keeping your hair? Not really. I wasn't aware of the tranny stuff, lol, thanks I'll look into that. I've added muscle while on finasteride, and am currently the strongest I've ever been thanks in part to a lifting program I recently started (have a rough draft of a thread on it).

When it comes to food, I like keeping it natural because it tastes better and mostly is about the same price - usually cheaper because you end up cooking more at home instead of eating out. There is no downside, as I see it - or I've just gotten used to the slight extra prep it requires. But the downside here is losing your hair, which is a pretty big deal. So it's not as clear a choice.

Also, the evidence suggests that the 1 mg a day dose recommended for preventing hair loss is stupidly high, because 0.2mg per day or less is just as effective. If the side effects are dose dependent as the evidence suggests, taking 0.2 mg per day will reduce the risk of side effects. I was taking 1-1.25mg a day for years (cut up 5 mg pills), and recently switched to ~0.2-0.25 mg a day (cut up 1 mg pills). There's no reason to take more than the minimum effective dose.

Also, pending personal research, I plan to switch to dutasteride when it goes generic. If that happens, I've only got about a year of finasteride left - which is about how many pills of it I have anyway.

Post: #6

Basil, there are still a lot of unknowns, to say the least, regarding finasteride and its effects on men's sexual health. It is a DHT suppressor, after all.

It would seem smart to me to try to find the minimal effective topical treatment. 2% keto which you mention might well be as effective as finasteride and it certainly does not have the systemic anti-androgen effects that I would worry about.

EDIT: I see that you replied to my previous post, which I'd decided to delete as perhaps too inflammatory. It's certainly possible that you will not experience the sexual side effects, but it's also possible that you might, eventually. In any case, like I said above, trying to find the most minimal topical treatment would be my first choice.

Post: #7

Good Looking Loser is raving about another solution called RU58841. I trust his opinion, but it looks a lot pricier than any of this stuff.

10 grams is about $165, which at the dosage he's using, is less than a month's supply - 25 days worth. He says he uses 2 ml minoxidil per dose, twice a day, with 3 grams of RU58841 mixed in with 25-30 ml.

http://www.gll-getalife.com/ru58841/

Post: #8

I don't think this helps if you already have lost hair. I lost most of the hair in the center. So I just safety razor it off every 3 days.

Post: #9

interesting datasheet, however I've really read some negative stuff about how finesteride affects one's libido, although it seems to affect a small minority of ppl. I personally do not think it is worth it to mess with testosterone and dht levels just to keep my hair...
Minoxidil seems to be safe though.

what I do is I use concealers, dermmatch + nanogen and buzzcut my hair short. works like a charm.

Post: #10

(05-18-2014 05:51 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  Basil, there are still a lot of unknowns, to say the least, regarding finasteride and its effects on men's sexual health. It is a DHT suppressor, after all.

I've used Propecia daily for 15 years and never remotely had an issue. On my hornier days, I could fuck a hole through a concrete wall. I think it may have something to do with what your T levels were to begin with and/or genetics for those few who have bad luck with fin.

In my late 30s here and basically have no hair loss due to using the 3 items mentioned by Basil since mid 20s.

One precaution though, if you trend toward a receding hairline, none of these treatments will do much of anything. Each may help a bit, especially minoxidil, but the school of thought is that frontal receding is due more to scalp testosterone than to scalp DHT, so fin is unlikely to help much.

Post: #11

Also guys, don't sleep on the Nizoral/other Keto shampoo. Ketoconazole shampoo 2% has been shown to be nearly as effective as fin, although I prefer 1% formula because it's gentler on your hair.

RU there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that it works and basically stops all hair loss, but there are questions about legitimate sources since it's an experimental formula. You have to get it from outside the US. I would research extensively to confirm a good source prior to purchasing.

Post: #12

(05-19-2014 04:13 PM)Sugar Wrote:  One precaution though, if you trend toward a receding hairline, none of these treatments will do much of anything. Each may help a bit, especially minoxidil, but the school of thought is that frontal receding is due more to scalp testosterone than to scalp DHT, so fin is unlikely to help much.

Source?

Everything I've said says otherwise - hair loss is due to DHT, and all these treatments are meant to diminish DHT levels.

Plus, minoxidil is not clinically approved for hairline recession, though doctors and others typically recommend it for that.

Also, being a fat fuck and having low HDL cholesterol increases the likelihood of balding. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgenic_...c_syndrome

Yet another reason not to be a fat fuck.

Post: #13

I worked for a hair restoration surgeon for years, so basically an expert in the field. And I'll dig up the study when I'm not on my phone. Basically the frontal area of the scalp holds the highest concentrations of scalp T. T in and of itself can damage the follicle which is why these medications often help keep hair on the top and back but little in the very front. Minox will absolutely help in the front but it does nothing in terms of Dht. It's a vasodialator that helps hairs stay in the anagen (growing) phase as long as possible. Fin and ketoconazole are internal and external DHT fighters respectively. Guys who are really serious about hair use stuff like spironolactone cream or even fluridil but I wouldn't recommend either. Spiro is what tranny men take to become women and fluridil is similar to Spiro but X 10.

Post: #14

I used Finasteride for three months. It gave me ED and watery cum, so I stopped taking it. Thankfully after two weeks my hormones went back to normal. Now I use the generic Rogaine foam alone and it's working pretty well for me.

Post: #15

(05-18-2014 06:13 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  Good Looking Loser is raving about another solution called RU58841. I trust his opinion, but it looks a lot pricier than any of this stuff.

10 grams is about $165, which at the dosage he's using, is less than a month's supply - 25 days worth. He says he uses 2 ml minoxidil per dose, twice a day, with 3 grams of RU58841 mixed in with 25-30 ml.

http://www.gll-getalife.com/ru58841/

I started using RU58841 almost 2 months ago, propecia was working fine for me for a long time but suddenly my boners and libido took a nosedive. I had my T levels measured and they were pretty low, I stopped taking the tabs and shedding came shortly after. I bought 5 grams of RU58841, mixed some in with Lipogaine (minox) and I apply it in the mornings and evenings after using a dermaroller on my scalp. In the meantime shedding has stopped, libido and boners are back and looks like there is is some regrowth.
My last blood test showed a decent increase in my T levels.

My routine is the RU58841/Lipogaine combo, nettle root powder and I also use a lasercomb.

Post: #16

Brisey, what's your cost per month for the RU58841?

Post: #17

(05-20-2014 01:46 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  Brisey, what's your cost per month for the RU58841?

I bought 5g of the raw powder from this site
I mix 2.5/3g into 60ml of lipogaine and apply .75/1ml in the morning and evening. I should get just over 2 months usage from the 5g, from what I paid it would equate to roughly 85 dollars per month.

I just checked the site again and it's on sale, at this price it would work out about half of that.
There is also the premixed solution but I haven't tried this.

Post: #18

Has it been concluded that there's no such thing as regrowing hair in places that it's already gone? Is hair loss 100% a preventive action?

It seems that nobody is sure whether their treatment works. Some people experience no hairline loss ever. My dad is 62 and his hairline never receded one bit. Some people recede only partially through their life but never fully go bald. And of course some lose it all. Thing is, you really have no idea whether it's actually working unless you stop taking for a while and see if it progresses.

Post: #19

Thanks Brisey.

"Has it been concluded that there's no such thing as regrowing hair in places that it's already gone? Is hair loss 100% a preventive action?"

There's hair transplants, but that's a surgery. Otherwise, yes, it's mostly preventive. Many guys report their hair thickening after these treatments, but you aren't going to accomplish the follicular equivalent of raising the dead typically - it's not for Larry David.

"It seems that nobody is sure whether their treatment works."

If you notice your hairline consistently receding over time, and then begin treatment and the recession halts for years, then you can be pretty sure the treatment is working. Or if it slows down the rate of recession, although that's a lot murkier of course.

Post: #20

For the guys using minoxidil or any topical hair treatment stuff...

I remember reading a while back that dermarolling prior to applying those treatments helps with the effectiveness of the treatment / product absorption by a significant amount. Here's a link to the study:

https://www.google.com/patents/US2012012...CDUQ6AEwAA

Post: #21

(05-20-2014 02:05 AM)Brisey Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 01:46 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  Brisey, what's your cost per month for the RU58841?

I bought 5g of the raw powder from this site
I mix 2.5/3g into 60ml of lipogaine and apply .75/1ml in the morning and evening. I should get just over 2 months usage from the 5g, from what I paid it would equate to roughly 85 dollars per month.

I just checked the site again and it's on sale, at this price it would work out about half of that.
There is also the premixed solution but I haven't tried this.

Brisey, have you had any systemic side effects from RU? The number one thing I've heard from users is brain fog, although it supposedly doesn't have any sexual sides, which seems to be in line with your experience.

Post: #22

(05-20-2014 08:51 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  Thanks Brisey.

"Has it been concluded that there's no such thing as regrowing hair in places that it's already gone? Is hair loss 100% a preventive action?"

There's hair transplants, but that's a surgery. Otherwise, yes, it's mostly preventive. Many guys report their hair thickening after these treatments, but you aren't going to accomplish the follicular equivalent of raising the dead typically - it's not for Larry David.

"It seems that nobody is sure whether their treatment works."

I had a hair transplant a few years back, I needed some work on the hairline and some grafts on the crown. I wasn't on Propecia at the time but the doctor suggested i take it for a year prior to having an operation. A year later I went back and he noted significant growth on the crown meaning no implants were needed there. So for me, the regrowth was noticeable.

If anyone is interested in the before/after transplant pics PM me and I'll send the link to the site with my story.

Sugar, no sides at all so far or brain fog, it all seems positive and I've even had a few comments on how thick my hair looks.

Post: #23

I'm surprised no-one has explicitly mentioned caffeine yet (although some of the products in this thread might contain in). It could be a fairly cheap and easily accessible first attempt treatment based on sound scientific research.

Post: #24

(05-20-2014 12:48 AM)Brisey Wrote:  

(05-18-2014 06:13 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  Good Looking Loser is raving about another solution called RU58841. I trust his opinion, but it looks a lot pricier than any of this stuff.

10 grams is about $165, which at the dosage he's using, is less than a month's supply - 25 days worth. He says he uses 2 ml minoxidil per dose, twice a day, with 3 grams of RU58841 mixed in with 25-30 ml.

http://www.gll-getalife.com/ru58841/

I started using RU58841 almost 2 months ago, propecia was working fine for me for a long time but suddenly my boners and libido took a nosedive. I had my T levels measured and they were pretty low, I stopped taking the tabs and shedding came shortly after. I bought 5 grams of RU58841, mixed some in with Lipogaine (minox) and I apply it in the mornings and evenings after using a dermaroller on my scalp. In the meantime shedding has stopped, libido and boners are back and looks like there is is some regrowth.
My last blood test showed a decent increase in my T levels.

My routine is the RU58841/Lipogaine combo, nettle root powder and I also use a lasercomb.

Brisey, what is the length of the dermaroller needles? I am seeing people talk from .5mm to 1.5mm wondering if shorter is still as effective.

I can't seem to find a study that says, I did dermaroller plus minox for X weeks and this is what happened.

Looks like your head can get pretty bloody from using it.

Anyone else using a dermaroller?

Post: #25

Baking soda is great substitute for shampoo....it doesn't have the dangerous chemicals that shampoo has