Post: #1

I've read lots of manosphere articles and I see that a lot of right wing and left wing types associate red pill with conservatism or right wing politics.

Personally, I would define red pill to be more about non dogmatic pragmatic free thinking than anything else. America's politics and the left/right culture war is all about dogmatic beliefs.

The left's feminism and race politics is definitely blue pill but the conservative right's stance on religion and xenophobia and the like seems just as blue pill and dogmatic.

I have quite a few conservative friends who are definitely politically right wing but when I tried to explain some red pill thinking they scoffed at the notion. The ones I know are hardcore U.S. nationalists, religious, and xenophobic to the core. They are also quite beta when it comes to interacting with American women. They would never dream of going abroad, exploring other countries, or expanding their world view.

What do you all think about this?

Post: #2

Though there are definitely posters on RVF of all political stripes, the prominent manosphere bloggers are conservative. Then there's the HBD stuff. After a while, I've developed a filter where even if someone is saying something I consider stupid or reprehensible, their statements still might contribute something to my knowledge of game or be of anthropological (almost wrote zoological) interest.

Post: #3

I think ded pill is thinking through the politics with logic, empirical evidence and reasonable values. Not thinking through emotions, prejudice and bias. Usually the left is more guilty for the latter.

Post: #4

(04-13-2014 03:47 AM)strengthstudent Wrote:  I think ded pill is thinking through the politics with logic, empirical evidence and reasonable values. Not thinking through emotions, prejudice and bias. Usually the left is more guilty for the latter.

The Southern Strategy and anti-abortionism come to mind.

Post: #5

The worst mistake that you can possibly make is to decide that just because liberals are your enemies then conservatives must be your friends.

While red pill does indeed lean slightly more to the right, it might only be because our world today is so left-leaning overall so it's a contrast.

Post: #6

Definitely more left than right, but not all the way left. So yes you are correct. However I think this applies more to the manosphere in general rather than strict red pill, because red pill is less of a political ideology and more of a way of life, which I guess are not mutually exclusive. However, the manosphere is more left. If a member of the manosphere became president, it would likely more more left.

Post: #7

It depends which scale you are associating redpill with:

On a:

Left-Socialist (revolutionary/progressive etc.)-----------Right-Conservative (actually conservative, religious, traditional, etc.)

scale it definitley leans right.

On a

Left-Libertarian(anarcho-communist)-------------Right-Libertarian(anarcho-individualistic)

It is probably more right leaning, but stuff such as the 'manosphere' existing as a relatively cohesive ungoverned group illustrates that even this continuum is subtly flawed - even individualists can co-operate when they want to.


It makes more sense to use

more infor at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass

or


more info at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pournelle_chart

when thinking about these things.

Post: #8

When i say that I'm mildly conservative, i have in mind definition of word "conservative" that it had in previous century.

Today, conservatives can't even say a word against same sex marriage without having their asses kicked, and so they sweat like pigs when they have to defend their position, because on the other side P.R. manger is waving with latest poll that says it would be bad for his campaign.

Actually, in order for morons not to label me way they see fit, i describe my views very very broadly: I'm republican (form of government, not American party), secular, mildly conservative, i support christian-democratic model of welfare state, and centralized running of the state, with federalization being acceptable in uniform societies.

Red pill deals much more with culture, which is recognized as main moving force of evolution of societies, rather than positivist political governance. Countries that have similar economic models, can be quite different in nature, because culture plays such major role.

And we all know what is current level of evolution of western culture - deformed liberalism with emphasis on queer culture and social networking.

Post: #9

To be red pill is to be the most effective fighter. If you stick to one belief system you're limited by the rules of that system. Red pill takes the best from the left and the right and creates it's own style. One without limiting beliefs.

I quote Bruce Lee a lot here. I think he really had it figured out.
Be like water my friend.

Post: #10

Red-pill is neither, thinking the red pill is left or right...is beta.

The red pill has views from both sides. Conservatives would lament that we go around the world fucking women (and their daughters). Not to mention we don't believe in the usual "go to school, get a stable job, get a family, become a provider" stuff.

The same goes for the left, they don't like our views on feminism and why we travel around. That, and because they snub at the trades.

Post: #11

I see nothing "blue-pill" about fighting for higher wages and worker's control of the workplace (Unionism, Syndicalism, et al.). You don't even need to get the dreaded "Gummint" involved.

Post: #12

Game is Apolitical and can be used for either left or right wing agendas.

"Red pill" thinking simply means to see the "truth" so that can also lean left or right depending on perspective.

The "truth" is very subjective in many cases.

Post: #13

(04-13-2014 02:44 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  I've read lots of manosphere articles and I see that a lot of right wing and left wing types associate red pill with conservatism or right wing politics.

Personally, I would define red pill to be more about non dogmatic pragmatic free thinking than anything else. America's politics and the left/right culture war is all about dogmatic beliefs.

The left's feminism and race politics is definitely blue pill but the conservative right's stance on religion and xenophobia and the like seems just as blue pill and dogmatic.

I have quite a few conservative friends who are definitely politically right wing but when I tried to explain some red pill thinking they scoffed at the notion. The ones I know are hardcore U.S. nationalists, religious, and xenophobic to the core. They are also quite beta when it comes to interacting with American women. They would never dream of going abroad, exploring other countries, or expanding their world view.

What do you all think about this?

I agree that RedPill is essentially about a pragmatic approach to life and a realistic perception of the world.
Somewhere around the Enlightenment Western culture got really enamored with highly abstract thinking. Well, guess what? You can argue all you want about how society should be ordered so men and women are equal, but our animal natures don't care about these principles. Women can pay lip service to equality but they aren't paying babies-and-vagina service to it. Men, in turn, are not going to en-mass give up sex and progeny for hot air.

Blue pill ideology has snuck in through the loopholes of technology, sexual liberation, and economic prosperity, but we are gradually discovering through coming hardship (the US has been in a decline economically since the 70s, even if technology has improved) that those "arbitrary" social rules we've been overturning for the past couple centuries, and overturning more and more rapidly this last half century, didn't come from nowhere but were actually intelligent and higher-level-rational societal optimizations informed with an intuitive understanding of the base nature of humanity.

Post: #14

If you think Red Pill is conservative, try hanging out with conservatives. You'll find they're unrealistically chivalrous about women and often see their daughters as princesses.

Roissy addressed with an excellent takedown of conservative writer Paul Greenberg this in 2010. His take on it can be found here and his definitive quote on it was:

"Where conservatives sanctify women, liberals demonize men."

Post: #15

In theory, it's neither - it's about the search for truth, and neither side has a monopoly on it.

In reality, it is solidly conservative, because the left is delusional about the truths of human nature. Modern mainstream conservatives, are fools, sure, but the essential strains of conservative thought are hardly at odds with what people call 'red pill.' Read the book A Conflict of Visions by Thomas Sowell, or even just a summary of it, and you tell me whether the red pill is right or left. Not that that book is the be all end all, but it is a good example of conservative thought, and what separates conservatives from leftists.

Also, the difference between self styled conservatives and conservatism is vast, while that between leftists and leftism is considerably smaller, if only because our society is becoming unswervingly more leftist over time. If you are crucifying conservatism on the basis of those who now claim allegiance to it, you will have a fatally wrong understanding of it. Some people need that to feel secure in their opinions, I suppose.

Post: #16

Hey,

I have always thought of the Red Pill as an individualistic pursuit of the truth and knowledge regardless of where it originates from and learning to be your own master.

For example reading books and topics that you don't agree with can sometimes give you a better understanding of who you are, as it can define your own moral code as well as teaching you to be more disciplined in dealing with dry and uncomfortable subjects.Working out and developing yourself physically even when you don't want too.Cutting out crap from your diet ETC

My personal opinion is that both political ideologies want to keep you in a specific mode of thinking as they need your compliance in order to exist as government and even laws are just human ideals that are forced upon the general public through the the threat of force. But if you are you're own master/keeper who adheres to their own moral code, do you really need "elected officials" telling you what you can and can't do?

Governments on the whole have a symbiotic nature to the majority of the public, they feed of us, not only financially, but through our insecurities and fear of the unknown to ram through laws that will eventually bind us.

Being/becoming Red Pill should help us avoid all these negatives in our lives and hopefully in the future motivate and inspire others to become the same.

Post: #17

I think Red Pill is neither. Not collectivist, but more individualist.

Post: #18

Many, if not most, feminists are left leaning, and many of those are unreconstructed Marxists. For me, 'red pill' is very much an individualistic stand against the (liberal) status quo.

There may be socialist red pillers, but they are going to get a hard time from their female counterparts, who are feminists to a woman.

Post: #19

It's a very good question.

IMO: It's neither left nor right, it's Libertarian.

Now I understand that contemporary Libertarianism (is that a word/thing?) is usually associated with Republicans or Independents in the US today, rather than Democrats. But that is a historical mistake caused by the poor quality of the American left in recent decades (The reasons for this are a post in itself). When this quality improves (I'm optimistic by nature) you should see a more equal political split among Libertarians, and a left leaning Libertarian like Bill Maher won't feel so lonely out there.

Post: #20

(04-13-2014 03:51 PM)vinman Wrote:  I think Red Pill is neither. Not collectivist, but more individualist.

Finally

WIA

Post: #21

The dog wags the tail, not the other way around.

Post: #22

Why do you put everything in a box? Left and right is bullshit anyway. Politics is for the small minded and ignorant.

We should discuss ideas,values not politics.

Post: #23

(04-13-2014 02:44 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  Personally, I would define red pill to be more about non dogmatic pragmatic free thinking than anything else. America's politics and the left/right culture war is all about dogmatic beliefs.

I'm leaning towards above statement. I think red pill transcends beliefs of right and left.

Post: #24

I've been thinking about this a lot:

I believe that being red pill is the essence of the American Dream. The whole being rewarded for hard work, creativity, and ingenuity. It is also about understanding the hard truth of scarcity and accepting the fact that there will always be winners and losers because of this. You can do your best to mitigate this by practicing the art of self improvement in the three areas of mind, body, and spirit.

By building up these three things, you not only help yourself but you help your fellow man and country by being honest about what your own abilities are and by what you also bring to the table.

Being red pill fosters a stronger community and the appropriate allocation to resources by means of mostly merit and occasionally need. Patriarchy builds, matriarchy destroys. However, without death there can be no renewal and without renewal there can be change and sometimes painful change is what is needed to be done to help others.

Post: #25

prolly not