Post: #1

Guys i want to study philosophy,but don't know where to start. Any recommendations for a younger guy to start reading?
thanks dudes

Post: #2

An unorthodox suggestion: Peter Sloterdijk, "The Art of Philosophy: Wisdom as a Practice." It's short and discusses why philosophy is cool with some basic ideas of Husserl, who is otherwise difficult. Sloterdijk is not particularly hard to read, so you might check out "Critique of Cynical Reason" or "You Must Change Your Life" later.
Žižek is an amazing writer who name-drops all over the place, even if much of what he ends up saying is, in his own words, bullshit. Still a lot easier than Hegel, and discusses contemporary issues.
Nietzsche is the most important philosopher for a young man to read. "The Portable Nietzsche" is a great start, as it gives samples from throughout his career; you can skip "Zarathustra" at first if its language feels too labored or pretentious.
Or, you could take the traditional route I unintentionally did as a youth and just grab some Penguin editions of Plato, since he and Aristotle are jumping-off points for much of philosophy through history up to today. "The Republic" is a bit of a slog; "Gorgias" and "Early Socratic Dialogues" are more fun.
After that, of the standard college syllabus of Descartes, Kant, Locke, Berkeley, Hume (I may have screwed up the order), Kant and Locke are going to be rough.
If you were hoping for introductions and popular overviews, sorry. From what I've seen, they are of uneven quality, so maybe another member will have good suggestions. I could use a refresher.

Post: #3

Download some intro audio lectures and get a grounding in the basics then just read/observe and think about what you see - this is the important part that people tend to get lost on

Post: #4

My interest in philosophy started with the book Sophie's World when I was a teenager:
http://www.amazon.com/Sophies-World-Hist...957&sr=1-1
It is a combination of a novel and an introduction to the history of western philosophy from the pre-socratic greeks to our time. Instead of jumping straight into the writings of a particular philosopher it could be preferable to first get an overview of the history and the major questions of the field.

Post: #5

The Prince is a very good book

The power of now is very good too. (my #1 book)

Post: #6

A lot of people on the forum (including myself) think the following book by Bryan Magee is great.

It is pretty unique - it is a memoir of his purely from the point of view of his lifetime's study of philosophy and which philosophers he came to study and admire during his life.

http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Philos...0375750363

Here is a newspaper review of the book:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entert...54515.html

Bryan Magee has some large chapters in the book covering the importance of Kant and Schopenhauer - and their ideas involving Transcendental Idealism. Magee thinks it is the most important breakthrough in the history of philosophy. Although strangely - it is not taught much these days at the modern universities.

As such - you will pick up some important ideas along the way.

Also - this is THE book that turned me on to philosophy. So I can speak from experience as to what an impact it can have on you. It was the first book on philosophy I read and it was an amazing introduction to the subject. And much more interesting that the usual introductory text on philosophy which will briefly cover many thinkers without going into a lot of detail. And as a reult of the dry writing - it can leave you wondering what all the fuss is about.

The good thing with the Magee book - is that he is talking about his interests and passions (and the philosophers he loves and hates). As such - it drops you right into the centre of the subject.

I promise you there is not a more interesting introduction to philosophy.

Post: #7

(04-15-2014 02:57 AM)Architekt Wrote:  Download some intro audio lectures and get a grounding in the basics then just read/observe and think about what you see - this is the important part that people tend to get lost on

This is a good idea. Do you have any specific audio recommendations Architekt?

Post: #8

Have a look at the iTunes educational podcast section pretty sure they've got a whole bunch of free general introduction type courses that get you thinking philosophically and introduce you to different schools of thinking etc

Post: #9

Montaigne's and Francis Bacon's Essays, which are short and stimulating and introduce you to ideas and arguments in a gradual way.
JS Mill's On Liberty is a classic of political philosophy, explaining utilitarianism in detail.
Hume's Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding is complex but not long, and very important in Western philosophy-it deals with empirical understanding of the world and reason from experience. Hume's Dialogues concerning natural religion are pretty good, and in the same way, deal with the arguments for the existence of God.
If you want to learn about reasoning, David Kelley's Art of Reasoning is a reliable textbook although it's not cheap
Hobbes Leviathan pretty similar to The Prince, and talks about producing a society that restrains the worst impulses of human nature. Aristotle's Politics is pretty accessible too, and pretty similar.
The SciPhi podcast discusses philosophical ideas through Scifi movies and TV shows, and is pretty interesting and accessible.

A good way to get a point-counterpoint view is to read one author, then read a contemporary critic of theirs, or a modern rebuttal-these are usually easy to find. Or look at an issue and see how different writers from different eras approach it.

Take a class if you feel the need, but you can get a good self-directed education from knowing what exactly you want to understand and reading one key book at a time.

Post: #10

Hey guys,

Here is info on Stoicism along with a small online course:
https://sites.google.com/site/thestoiclife/Home

History of Philosophy. I have only listend to a few of these, but pretty good so far.
http://www.historyofphilosophy.net/

Audio books. These are public domain books, i.e. old stuff, the good stuff, that have been made into audio books. There is a philosophy section along with a lot more:
http://www.booksshouldbefree.com/

Regards
Ironsun

Post: #11

(04-14-2014 08:29 PM)SteezeySteve Wrote:  Guys i want to study philosophy,but don't know where to start. Any recommendations for a younger guy to start reading?
thanks dudes

Why do you want to study philosophy? Do you have any specific ideas, problems or curiosities that strike your interests? There are loads of different schools and philosophers and it could take a while to unravel.

For example, if you're looking for something related to politics, then Aristotle, Hobbes, Locke, Marx and Smith might be to your liking.

For a systematic method of philosophy, Kant and Aristotle would be classic go-to's.

Literary philosophy will take you to the existentialists. If you like polemics you'll like Nietzsche and Schopenhauer.

Moral philosophy again Aristotle, the Stoics, Epicureans, Nietzsche.

Aesthetics deals with art, taste and such and has been talked about since the ancient Greeks as well. Many of the great philosophers have written on different aspects of philosophy from metaphysics to politics, ethics, aesthetics, the nature of knowledge.

I think it's important that you "think about thinking" and get at why you're interested in reading philosophy. It'll put you on the right track earlier on so you don't spend time reading something that's not useful to you. Philosophy could be navel gazing, but it could also be illuminating.

If you have an evening to kill, wikipedia's a great starting point.. If you really don't know what you want, skim through it, see what takes your fancy, and go from there.

Post: #12

I really liked this book when it came out.

Post: #13

haven't read Magee's book but based on cardguy's description and BDawg's link, for 200 pages it looks like it covers through all the major schools/players.

Post: #14

(04-15-2014 03:29 AM)Iron Fisted Buddha Wrote:  My interest in philosophy started with the book Sophie's World when I was a teenager:
http://www.amazon.com/Sophies-World-Hist...957&sr=1-1
It is a combination of a novel and an introduction to the history of western philosophy from the pre-socratic greeks to our time. Instead of jumping straight into the writings of a particular philosopher it could be preferable to first get an overview of the history and the major questions of the field.

Depending on the person's age I'd also recommend this book. Nice intro to Philosophy.

Post: #15

http://www.philosophybro.com

I'll take any and all shit for that suggestion, but you're not going to stick with it if the first thing you read is Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. New ways of thinking are key, not necessarily the medium. Go back to the source after.

Post: #16

I recommended 'Confessions of a Philosopher' by Bryan Magee.

BDawg recommended 'The Story of Philosophy' by Bryan Magee.

Two different books. The first is a memoir of his life and how his interest in philosophy has changed over the years.

The second is an introduction which covers the history and most of the major philosophers.

For some reason I don't like introductions to philosophy. It is like reading an introduction to films or music. It feels too removed from the subject itself. Philosophy is an easy subject to learn and read. You can pick up any philosophy work and have a good go at it. And if you get stuck - there are lots of guidebooks to the major philosophical classics which can help guide you through the text.

Please let us know what areas of philosophy you are most interested in. Or if it just that you want to get a feel for the subject as a whole?

Post: #17

I suggest starting with Aristotle. He is really the foundation of Western philosophical thought and I'd venture to say most university courses in philosophy begin with him. Read the Nicomachean Ethics first.

Post: #18

I would dip into a few different books and see how you get on.

I would pick a subject you are interested in - and check out an anthology in that area.

I have read a few anthologies devoted to metaphysics and they were great:

http://www.amazon.com/Metaphysics-Peter-...etaphysics

Philosophy is something you can only really experience by grappling with difficult texts. There are no shortcuts. Indeed - one of things about philosophy is that it is a test of your intellectual stamina.

You may be interested in the question of whether or not we have Free Will. But will you still be interested in the question weeks later and after reading hundreds of pages discussing the topic? It is very tempting with philosophy to throw your hands in the air from time to time - and say this is bullshit, I'm going to do something more productive.

Hell - I feel that way - every two or three months about philosophy. But it is an important part of philosophy living with those ambivalent feelings. It is a wall you have to break through. And once you have experienced that feeling a few times - and still come back to the subject - it gives you the confidence to know that philosophy is something you can live with for life. As opposed to it being a passing fad.

I prefer the anthologies built around certain philosophical subjects or perhaps the work of a particular philosopher. Indeed - picking up an introductory text about why Wittgenstein, Kant, Schopenhauer or Heidegger are important is a great way to start.

And then bounce your way through other philosophers. Before finding one who seems interesting - and then you can go on to read the original texts by those philosophers.

It is like swimming - you have to drop yourself in there and just get on with it. Reading those introductory books to philosophy feel more like reading a book on swimming as opposed to actually doing any swimming.

Also - here is a long thread on philosophy which may be of interest:

/thread-25063.html

Lastly - do not be intimidated. Ever. No matter how difficult a book may seem to be. Most philosophers struggle to fully understand a philosophical book the first time they read it. And most philosophical classics are still widely misunderstood by most philosophers.

As such - for any famous philosopher you can think of. Half of the people who study philosophy will think he is a genius - and the other half will think he is an idiot. It is like trying to understand modern art. It is all about the context that YOU bring to the work.

Which is why I find meta-philosophy such an interesting subject. For me - one of the most interesting questions in philosophy is the question 'What the hell is the point of philosophy in the first place?'.

Unlike a lot of the squares on this forum - I never bothered going to any lectures when I did philosophy at university. As such I am 100% self-educated in the subject. And I speak from experience when I say that it is very easy (and a lot of fun) educating yourself in the subject.

Post: #19

To add to the above.

Daniel Dennett is one of my favourite philosophers. He writes a lot about issues relating to Free Will, evolution, artificial intelligence and consciousness. Look up the topic of 'Qualia' to see how interesting and strange these areas can be.

Now here is the weird thing. My interests in philosophy skew towards metaphysics and metaphilosophy.

So - why am I interested in Daniel Dennett? Well - he is just so damn smart. And he is such a clear writer on the subject. He cuts through the bullshit in philosophy the way Feynman could with physics and the way Milton Friedman could with economics.

Time and again he will raise an interesting problem. Show you a seemingly plausible solution. And then ruthlessly dismantle what you thought you believed in the very next paragraph. It is really fun. Like getting a peek inside the mind of a chess grandmaster as you see him figure out exactly how he is going to trap you into a checkmate.

Reading Dennett is so much fun that he actually gets me caring about issues that I would usually ignore.

Anyway - here is the cool thing. Daniel Dennett makes a lot of use of 'Intuition Pumps' in his work. These are seemingly simple thought experiments - which he feels seductively trick philosophers into making key errors in their thinking.

Daniel Dennett has made use of hundreds of these over the years in is work. He will usually state one - explain why it seems plausible. And them go on to show you why it is complete nonsense. He is just so damn smart - it is like watching an uncle tease a nephew.

Anyway - in Dennett's most recent work - he collected his favourite 'Intuition Pumps' into a large collection. The book acts as an introduction of sorts to the important issues which have been debated in the Philosophy of Mind over the past 40 years. I mention it since it could be the sort of ideal book for a beginner. And along the way - it introduces you to the most famous ideas and problems and puzzles from contemporary academic philosophy over the past few days.

http://www.amazon.com/Intuition-Pumps-Ot...tion+pumps

And a quick point about academic philosophy. Philosophy as a subject is about 300 years old. But over the past century - it has become widely studied in universities. And 'professionalised' to a large degree. In the same that science has.

Science used to be the hobby of rich amateurs like Charles Darwin or eccentric geniuses like Isaac Newton. Whereas today it has opened up to tens of thousands of talented people. Some of who are also geniuses.

The same is true of philosophy. It used to be the preserve of rich guys who were bored. And would - from time to time - produce a random book on the subject.

But these days - it is debated and argued over by thousands of trained philosophers around the world. And every time one of them puts forward an interesting new idea in a paper - he will have ten responses in the next couple of months picking over the fine detail of his paper and pointing out the holes in his thinking.

As such - philosophy today is a lot less 'artistic' and strange, and a lot more rigorous than it used to be. And it is this side to philosophy which is still unknown to those people who think reading some books by Plato and Nietzsche makes them qualified to be a 'philosopher'.

The work in this area is pedantic at times but can still be fun. But a different kind of fun to just reading the musings of a seventeenth century aristocrat. And it is this side to philosophy which you will get to experience in the work of Daniel Dennett. And his most recent book (mentione above) is a great look into this side of the field.

Post: #20

I also like The Story of Philosophy by Bryan Magee. It's a nice book and doubles quite nicely as a coffee table book.

Post: #21

(04-16-2014 01:37 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Daniel Dennett is one of my favourite philosophers. He writes a lot about issues relating to Free Will, evolution, artificial intelligence and consciousness.

Cardguy, have you read "Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid"?

It is a great book that debates the question of consciousness & AI and won the Pulitzer Prize for general non-fiction :

http://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-...0465026567

Post: #22

(04-16-2014 10:57 AM)cardguy Wrote:  BDawg recommended 'The Story of Philosophy' by Bryan Magee.

Two different books. The first is a memoir of his life and how his interest in philosophy has changed over the years.

The second is an introduction which covers the history and most of the major philosophers.

Huh, I actually have that. I bought it back in high school. I hesitate to read it again, because it is just summaries. While a good intro, I really want to dive into philosophy I just don't know where to start.

I read Thus Spoke Zarathustra and end well it did not. Perhaps I'll try a lighter text.

I'm thinking Hume...

Post: #23

I hate Nietszche - so I can't speak of his work.

As for the earlier question - yep I have read the Godel, Escher, Bach book.

It is amazing - it is the first book of 'philosophy' I ever read. I keep meaning to sit down and work through the pencil and paper exercises involving the logic systems that he teaches.

Post: #24

(04-17-2014 11:54 AM)cardguy Wrote:  I hate Nietszche - so I can't speak of his work.

As for the earlier question - yep I have read the Godel, Escher, Bach book.

It is amazing - it is the first book of 'philosophy' I ever read. I keep meaning to sit down and work through the pencil and paper exercises involving the logic systems that he teaches.

Why do you hate Nietsczche? I am interested in your response.

Post: #25

Philosophy strikes me as a mixture of art and trying to seek the truth. As such - the style in which a person writes actually has an impact on how you respond to their ideas.

And I really can't stand the style in which Nietzsche writes. And on top of that - I don't think that Nietzsche is saying anything that interesting. But maybe his work went over my head and I didn't realise it. That is one of the fun things about philosophy - sometimes you are not sure if a philosopher is stupid - or if you are too stupid to understand what he is saying.

As such - I am always happy to try again with the work of philosophers I have given up on in the past. Since you never know if the next time you study their work will be the point at which it suddenly all clicks into place.

I would be interested in why you found Nietzsche's work to be of value? Since that would give me something to work with in terms of giving you an analysis of why I felt the way I do.

With that said - a lot of Nietzsche's work is do with the foundations of morals and how we can judge the use and abuse of power in life (or themes along those lines). And those are issues that don't really interest me.

Let me end with one of the few philosophical jokes there are:

Nietzsche: God is dead.

God: Nietzsche is dead.

But to sum up. I think Nietzsche sounds like a teenager with a hangover - and when I can figure out what he is saying - it never strikes me as being particularly original, interesting or profound.

Philosophy is a lot like painting. In that some people get revered as geniuses whilst others are ignored. And as such - I am always a little confused (and sceptical) as to why philosophers such as Nietzsche are considered geniuses.

I would be genuinely interested to hear from somebody who could explain why they found his work to be powerful and insightful?