Post: #1

Quote:(Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday further undermined the use of racial preferences in higher education by upholding a voter-approved Michigan law that banned the practice in decisions on which students to admit to state universities.

The 6-2 vote and the four opinions issued by justices in the majority revealed divisions on the court as to the legal rationale in rejecting civil rights groups' challenge to the ban. Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who wrote the sole dissenting opinion, read excerpts from the bench, calling the decision a blow to "historically marginalized groups, which rely on the federal courts to protect their constitutional rights."

The court emphasized that it was not deciding the larger and divisive question of whether affirmative action admission policies can be lawful.

But the decision made it clear that voter-approved affirmative action bans can withstand legal challenges. It could encourage other states to pass similar bans and deter challenges to existing bans in seven other states.

Civil rights groups had argued that the 2006 Michigan constitutional amendment that passed as a ballot initiative had imposed burdens on racial minorities in violation of the U.S. Constitution's guarantee of equal protection.

Affirmative action programs, first advocated in the 1960s to combat discrimination against racial minorities, have faced a backlash from conservatives in recent decades. Court rulings and action by states have chipped away at the practice.

Source


I fully support the court's ruling. College admissions should not be made, among many things, on the basis of race. Admission committees should not know the race or even the name of applicants, which can reveal ethnicity. Academic performance, extra curricular activity, and a personal essay should be the only thing viewed by an admission official.

What I'd also like to see in the future is race based decisions removed from financial aid applications.

Let's try not to ruin this thread.

Post: #2

I'm totally against AA, but there's some valid argument to be made for it's benefits. But now that it's been practiced for over 50 years, it's time to get rid of it. We can never have true equality if being born Black or Hispanic gives you advantages (doesn't apply to Indians, I guess because they do well well for themselves in the States).

Post: #3

Hmm, I 'member voting for this one. Nice.

Post: #4

btw-WB that female co-anchor

Post: #5

One of the many reasons Canada is superior to the US at the current moment is the lack of affirmative action in Universities here (however there are grants available to aboriginal students, a sort of modern day reparations for stealing their ancestral land and raping their culture).

No one can look me in the eye, and question my Canadian education based on my ethnicity. No one can assume that I got into university because of my race, it's simply not a criteria that is taken into account here.

On the flip side, legacy enrolment also doesn't happen here. Universities essentially have a marks cut off point. A simple red line is drawn after a high school weighted average is taken, and those atop the line are admitted. That's is!

Canada's universities today are far more diverse than Canada is. Take a walk across any campus of Canada's most prestigious schools and you'll find it's far more diverse than even the city of Toronto.

Post: #6

Why not give poor college/job applicants priority instead of race?

Post: #7

Segregation is still in practice as long as any race, gender, or sexual orientation is given benefits that others are not. This is a move in the right direction. However, we will never be able to get rid of privately owned scholarships for certain demographics.

I understand wanting to pull kids out of bad areas, but these days it is so easy for them to get back in trouble in another town.

I do enjoy how many US universities don't only look at SAT scores and GPA. I definitely shouldn't have gotten in to where I went (based on grades).

Post: #8

(04-23-2014 03:56 PM)ddjembe mutombo Wrote:  Segregation is still in practice as long as any race, gender, or sexual orientation is given benefits that others are not. This is a move in the right direction. However, we will never be able to get rid of privately owned scholarships for certain demographics.

I understand wanting to pull kids out of bad areas, but these days it is so easy for them to get back in trouble in another town.

I do enjoy how many US universities don't only look at SAT scores and GPA. I definitely shouldn't have gotten in to where I went (based on grades).

There's nothing wrong with Private race-based scholarships. It's only damaging when it's public policy. Hell, if some rich dudes want to give scholarships only to Ginger-haired fags who own Shit Tzus, who cares?

Post: #9

The most pressing issue isn't just race, it's shitty public school system fraught in politics, self serving administrations and mafia extortion like turfism.

America's best medicine will be administered by the charter school push;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-wh...72921.html

Quote:In Louisiana, the state has transformed the chronically underperforming New Orleans school system by developing the nation's first charter school district. In New Orleans, 91% of students, nearly all minorities, attend charter schools. And results have followed. New Orleans' high school graduation rate has risen from 54% to 78%. To put this in context, the national graduation rate for white students in our country is 83%, which New Orleans is on track to surpass over the coming years.

The nation is at crossroads. On one hand, we have the Illinois legislators trying to block families from sending their children to better public schools. On the other hand, we have states such as Louisiana and Tennessee that have built bipartisan support around the idea that excellent educators should be able to open new public schools.

Funny thing all this race trolling is. The Northern legislators were responsible for turning the civil rights movement into a reality, while the southerners clinged to nativism. Now, the southernern (and western) legislators will usher a new era that will help blacks/hispanics most in the future. While too many in the North's cities try to crush the charter school push.

Post: #10

(04-23-2014 04:18 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  The most pressing issue isn't just race, it's shitty public school system fraught in politics, self serving administrations and mafia extortion like turfism.

America's best medicine will be administered by the charter school push;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-wh...72921.html

Quote:In Louisiana, the state has transformed the chronically underperforming New Orleans school system by developing the nation's first charter school district. In New Orleans, 91% of students, nearly all minorities, attend charter schools. And results have followed. New Orleans' high school graduation rate has risen from 54% to 78%. To put this in context, the national graduation rate for white students in our country is 83%, which New Orleans is on track to surpass over the coming years.

The nation is at crossroads. On one hand, we have the Illinois legislators trying to block families from sending their children to better public schools. On the other hand, we have states such as Louisiana and Tennessee that have built bipartisan support around the idea that excellent educators should be able to open new public schools.

Funny thing all this race trolling is. The Northern legislators were responsible for turning the civil rights movement into a reality, while the southerners clinged to nativism. Now, the southernern (and western) legislators will usher a new era that will help blacks/hispanics most in the future. While too many in the North's cities try to crush the charter school push.

The biggest reason why we have a shitty public school system is because of race. I can speak of this because I taught in urban schools for several years. It's this culture of low expectations, in regards to Black students. It's really just another form of racism: treating Blacks like intellectual inferiors. Black/Hispanic kids having trouble catching up with Asian/White students?: lower standards for everyone.

Post: #11

The University of California schools got rid of AA a few years ago and they all have catapulted to some of the top universities in the world, further than they were previously. Affirmative Action promotes a culture of entitlement.

Post: #12

Ok, we all know whose ever been in university and graduated see the emollient decline from first year courses where you have 500+ students taking psychology 100 etc. then when you get to your fourth year you have classes in the teens. Students drop out like flies. Now even with affirmative action getting you an acceptance you will probably drop out before Christmas break as so many others do. The work load and standards are going to be overwhelming if you did not have the work ethic or grades to handle it. It's no joke in university.

Besides if you get into uni via AA, well your opportunity costs will also come into effect. If your grades and work ethic aren't up to snuff even with an acceptance via AA you should reconsider and pursue another route. (Trade, military or work elsewhere) losing a few months or 1year or 2 will cost you $$$$ not counting miscellaneous expenses as in transport to uni, food etc.

AA IMHO is a bad idea. The politicians need to look into the school system and should start in primary all the way through high school by giving equal funds to every school and student so that they can succeed. Then the best can apply to the universities. In the USA the tax system is different than in Canada as schools in Canada get the same funds depending on needs irregardless if they are in a low income or high income area. Meanwhile in the states, property taxes from wealthy areas are higher and the public schools get more in these areas and vice versa for lower income areas. I doubt american taxpayers from wealthier neighbourhoods will be happy with this proposal.

Post: #13

(04-23-2014 03:50 PM)Vox_All_Day Wrote:  Why not give poor college/job applicants priority instead of race?

Great idea but what makes a poor applicant. My parents weren't poor but they didn't pay for my college, so I was poor.
The best way is always the simplest...private markets. Everyone pays the same, No state aid, etc. Charitable groups and people will grant scholarships to underprivileged, poor, achievers, women, etc.

Post: #14

No surprise, 6 men on the supreme court, even the one liberal, were all in favor of removing this. One of the women recused herself, as she was originally trying to stop it when it was in the lower courts. The other two women voted to keep affirmative action in place. One of the two women wrote a 58 page response, which was longer than the 6 male judge's responses combined) in a confused, disorganized fashion claiming the only way to achieve equality is to have groups treated differently.

Just another reminder of why women shouldn't vote/be involved in govt.

Post: #15

This is only in state universities in Michigan, although other states have similar bans (as the article states).

Private universities can still affirmative action all they want, as can companies/corporations--which I think is fine, except when corporations are de facto extensions of the state, as is often the case.

Private parties should have freedom of association--but the door should swing both ways in the eyes of the law. If a company wants itself to be all white males, so be it.

From Espenshade and Chung's 2004/2005 paper:

Quote:African-American applicants receive the equivalent of 230 extra SAT points (on a 1600-point scale) [vis a vis being white], and being Hispanic is worth an additional 185 SAT points. Other things equal, recruited athletes gain an admission bonus worth 200 points, while the preference for legacy candidates is worth 160 points. Asian-American applicants face a loss equivalent to 50 SAT points.

Brackets mine. Being latino was worth 235 points on the 1600-point SAT over being Asian as of 2004/2005 in admissions to top schools. Gap has likely only grown since then.

When supporters of affirmative action cite historical discrimination as a justification, I like to ask: What kind of mistreatment have latinos suffered in America that Asians haven't?

Crickets.

Because if anything, Asians have had it worse.

Affirmative action is but an identity politics spoils system for groups the PC complex favors.

Post: #16

affirmative action fucks over asians, so i say fuck over affirmative action.

Post: #17

I'm totally for helping out disfranchised people. Hell, I have no problems with programs that aim to provide racial minoritries, women or any other group with assistance when it comes to education or anything else. What I am against though is having different standards for admissions.

To give a more concrete example of what I'm thinking, I would totally be in favor of a program that provided say SAT tutoring for inner city students that otherwise would not have access to such educational opportunties. What I would be AGAINST is lowering the mininum SAT score required (not that colleges have an absolute mininum requires score usually but bare with me for my example) for one of these inner city students to be admitted but having a higher score requried for say the Chinese kid who spent all his time studying in high school.

Raise everyone's ability to reach the bar, don't lower the bar and certainly don't lower it for some people but not others.

Post: #18

(04-24-2014 04:00 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  affirmative action fucks over asians, so i say fuck over affirmative action.

So why do 71% of Asians vote for the Democrats that perpetuate Affirmative Action?

I also don't understand why Hispanics vote Democrat - so many come from traditional backgrounds.

While I'm on a roll, there's no reason the party of Lincoln, the party that freed the slaves, should attract 8% of the African-American vote! I understand that, since the Democrats went all liberal/wealth redistribution, that this would appeal to the majority of African-Americans. But 8%?? jesus.

And to complete the grand slam, why do Jews vote heavily democratic when Republicans seem to be a better friend to Israel?

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread - I realize it wasn't about party politics. Still, the things above puzzle me.

Post: #19

(04-24-2014 09:51 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:00 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  affirmative action fucks over asians, so i say fuck over affirmative action.

I also don't understand why Hispanics vote Democrat - so many come from traditional backgrounds.

Geez, I don't know.....maybe because reps try to deport your family members who are not legal or think everyone brown is some sort of illegal immigrant.

I've seen people tell people whose families where here when Texas was a Mexican state to "go back home"....it's like, where are they supposed to go?