Post: #1

First off, let's not turn this into another Asian girls argument or a back and forth about whether big booties are fat or sexy.

I'm honestly curious what it is, from a scientific point of view, that makes guys so vehement about their taste in women that they shame other men for theirs. There are a lot of other examples besides the recent eruption where members were about ready to start throwing blows.

- I've seen guys who like thick women shaming guys who like slender women - "You're not man enough for a real woman." "You like girls with the body of a 12-year-old boy."
- Guys who like slender women shaming guys who like thick women. "Hey if you like fat bitches, have at it."
- Guys who like white women shaming guys who chase Asians. "He's beta." "He's got pedophile tendencies."
- Guys who like Asians shaming guys who like whites. "You just like women who look and act like men."
- I've seen a lot of black guys shaming each other for whether they go for blacks or whites. A lot less white men seem to pursue black women (and it's a taboo thing to shame about for white guys) or you'd probably see more of it there.
- Then you've got guys who like tats on women shaming guys who think it looks trashy, and vice versa.
- Guys who like women who are more sexy vs guys who like women who are more cute/act like a lady, and vice versa.
- Guys who like rough sex shaming men who don't and vice versa.
- Guys who like long-term relationships shaming guys who want to run through one-night stands and vice versa.
- Guys who like obedient, submissive women vs those who want more liberal, confident ones.
- I've even had guys try to shame me for thinking it was a plus that my woman didn't drink alcohol! "Sounds fucking boring to me."

It goes on and on...

And it doesn't just happen on the forum. You see men making these justifications in everyday life too, though they usually aren't so brash about it (online anonymity and all).

The thing is, I don't think the men who give a shit the most about these things realize the real reason they do. Most of them seem to have trouble just seeing beyond their own opinions, at least in this matter, and think they're purely making a quantitative argument in what is obviously a qualitative debate.

If you ask me, something is going on down at a deeper level. Otherwise, men wouldn't give a shit so much. They'd just shrug, as some of us do, and say more power to him. "I like what's on my plate, and that's all that matters."

I do know that humans in general have a tendency to rationalize and glorify their own choices once they've made them.

The shaming could also be a component of our inherent sexual competition as males. Not all males are alpha, but I think there's a drive in men that makes them all want to be alpha or maybe even makes them think they are all alpha. You see the same thing in animals, where younger members of the herd challenge the alpha male before they're ready and get beat back into submission.

Without this drive, males would always stay where they started and not rise up against the older males who came before them.

So I guess you could say there's a certain delusional quality naturally born into men. In some it is stronger, some learn to tame it or at least keep their mouth shut as needed as they get older, so they can get live in harmony with other strong males. Some learn to balance it enough to understand some things are worth fighting about and some aren't.

But I think with most men there is that self-concept that has them thinking they are the man. So when we rationalize our current decisions as "the right decisions," as all humans are prone to do, we also see them as the more manly decisions (ignoring the fact that what is manly varies a lot from culture to culture).

Perhaps that has something to do with it. I'm just blabbing off the top of my head here.

Again, I'm not trying to reopen any of these pointless arguments, so try not to do that here. Let's try to make it a strictly academic conversation. But I'm curious about whether there is some psychological or biological reason for this hang-up in the human psyche that keeps men from just accepting that other men have different preferences.

What are your thoughts?

NOTE: Maybe this would be better off in the Knowledge, Arts, and Letters forum, come to think of it...

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #2

I believe this is not a natural phenomena. This is western group think party line drumming phenomena. Because I do not observe this here in second world at all.

The natural behavior for men is to point out a nice ass walking by and share a related dirty joke and a laugh.

Post: #3

Well, if no one is hating you for what you're doing, you ain't doing it right.

So bring it on, haters.

Post: #4

I'm from the wiry very slim camp, but OP is right that's not the point. My guess is it's so primal ( hard wired in to people) it's truly hard to understand the preferences of others. It's like watching someone eat spoiled food. Maybe our genes are trying to find a mate that would have survived during the time we evolved.

Post: #5

(04-24-2014 08:24 AM)Mage Wrote:  I believe this is not a natural phenomena. This is western group think party line drumming phenomena. Because I do not observe this here in second world at all.

The natural behavior for men is to point out a nice ass walking by and share a related dirty joke and a laugh.

I'm not so sure. I see it in Southeast Asians - shaming each other about dark girls vs white-skinned girls. I see them shaming "farangs" for this too. My Thai buddies always clowned me (and each other) about girls; it's just presented as jokes in person.

Hell, look at all the Asian supremacy trolls we get coming on this forum to rant about how much better the girls they get are.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #6

Could it be jealousy because your more successful with an certain demographic while others are not?

Post: #7

I think it's just status plays, but there are some other elements too. A lot of people have a narcissistic streak which makes bashing others for no objective reason at all bring them joy. Hating on others is done for its own sake, it doesn't always have to have a goal or a rational motivation.

Post: #8

Not sure about online

The guys who do this to me in real life are almost always in a relationship or marriage, and I feel it's their not so subtle way to convince themselves (and by extension, try to convince me) that they have the better bitch than what I'm trying to get. I let them have their moments and laugh it off, as part of winning friends and influencing people lol

Post: #9

There is a turkish saying:

Quote:Nerede çokluk, orada bokluk
lit: where there is a crowd, there is shit(ines)

meaning: sometimes too many people together will spoil the fun. i.e. sometimes it better to be less people.

As an Epicurean I try to live under the radar. It get´s easier the older I get though it´s little difficult as I am naturally extroverted.

People like to put people down to make themselfs higher. That is seen everywhere. Some are very nice at the beginning and turn to monsters later. It´s the struggle of life. Think about a sperm who is content with the status quo that is swimming relaxed in the vagina. It would not have any chance to make it to the egg. Everybody has to some extent in himself a Napolean or Atilla.

When one is younger everything is new and one wants to make new experiences but with time one doesn´t want to hang out with people that much because everything is the same. It´s like an old movie. Clever guys might read more books others might watch tv.

The bad charakter of people comes out in sporting events where entitled fans think they have to do attention whoring. Obviously it does not make sense when thought rationally. But the reptile brain is often more powerfull.

As long as there is no technokratic or civilized system who decides who get´s which status people will fight to gain it in the old school style.

Yes it´s right the status of your girl is mostly related to your status that´s why it´s important.

If you would bang celebrities regularly you would be seen as king of the hill.

That´s why here guys who go to prostitutes are looked down upon. "Tell me your friends and I tell you who you are".

Post: #10

The other one that gets old is the subtle or not so subtle put down whenever an actual pic is posted. Always pointy elbows wnb...its hard for some guys to resist implying they have higher standards.

Post: #11

(04-24-2014 09:29 AM)RawGod Wrote:  The other one that gets old is the subtle or not so subtle put down whenever an actual pic is posted. Always pointy elbows wnb...its hard for some guys to resist implying they have higher standards.

Do you mean the ones where we actually say stuff like "pointy elbow?"

Because those are completely sarcastic. It's our way of clowning guys that make those comments seriously.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #12

Easy - people are generally very possessive of their opinions and often times have difficulty accepting that others have differing tastes. You think your opinion is "right" yes? Otherwise, why would you claim it if you didn't believe it to be the most reasonable?

Aside from that basic concept, there are a whole host of other personal and social factors that play into this shaming characteristic among male peers. Insecurity is a big one, as well as personal philosophies. Insecurity in that you are very protective of your taste in women and need to feel validated about it so you look down upon others to make yourself feel better. Personal philosophy for example - maybe you're a Darwinist and think it is unnatural and completely illogical to be attracted to women who are not thin and fit, or maybe you're racist and think it's wrong to be attracted to other ethnicities. The list goes on. I can't speak for weather or not this is more of a culturally dependent thing because I have not really talked-shop with men of other cultures.

Post: #13

(04-24-2014 09:09 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  Not sure about online

The guys who do this to me in real life are almost always in a relationship or marriage, and I feel it's their not so subtle way to convince themselves (and by extension, try to convince me) that they have the better bitch than what I'm trying to get. I let them have their moments and laugh it off, as part of winning friends and influencing people lol

Yeah, this is exactly what I get, guys who are already locked down trying to convince themselves they are banging a better hot chick then me so they attempt to shame you.

Post: #14

No I mean the non-sarcastic stuff that led to the pointy elbow meme. Usually takes the form of "you call that girl you banged an 8? To me she's a soft 6..." type stuff. In other words, watch out we got ourselves a true high standard s playa on our hands!!!

Post: #15

It's tribal.

If you start marrying the foreign women, pretty soon you're worshiping their gods, and white knighting their babies. Can't have that. Tribe only.

Post: #16

Could be biological, but I'm willing to bet it's stems from a cultural preference.

Egocentrism & personal worldview

In order to elevate our personal tastes, it's necessary to find deficiencies in another's

Recently, I read in another thread that a great number of people had taken umbrage with the selection of Lupita Nyong'o's selection as People's Most Beautiful Person in the world. No doubt an unpopular pick for a lot of guys I've spoken with. By the same token, in other parts of the globe no doubt there are men who see her as a "natural beauty"

Here in the Western world, as a collective there is a certain "beauty standard"/look that all women are judged/rated by.

I personally did not subscribe to that theory.

Post: #17

I really don't think it has any biological foundation.

Even though I believe that nearly everything about humans can be explained by evolutionary/reproductive biology, to me this seems pretty much wholly based on social constructs. Of course, however, I am fully open to look at evidence that says otherwise.

Shaming another man's taste in women just because it's different to yours, in terms of biology, seems very paradoxical as well.

For example, I am White and I've got serious Yellow Fever. I pretty much only go for Asians. If I find out another man likes White girls, how would I benefit from trying to prove to him that Asian girls are better? In fact, it would be better for me if he were to only go for White girls as it means that there is less competition for the Asian girls!

Post: #18

It's jealousy. And I've found it's most frequently done by younger, inexperienced, sexually-frustrated guys or fat men who get blown off by women as a matter of course.

I now see this as a motive because of hindsight. When I was in high school I used to run around with this really tall Amazon freshman cheerleader I befriended. We'd go to the local pool and run back to my house, which was nearby, when we needed to change into our clothes. My fatass dad and fatter-ass brother would give me crap about the "football player" I was with.

A few months later, I started dating the cheerleader's best friend, a really tiny petite country girl. Again, the fatasses gave me shit, but this time it was about this girl being a "redneck." Which she wasn't. But even if she was, she was hot as hell. This is two examples -- there were others.

But my point is I could have brought any girl home and they'd have given me crap. It's sad I didn't see this at the time and took some of their bullshit to heart. I now see it must have annoyed them to have me coming and going with different girls in bikinis, but you don't think in terms of that when you're 17. Anyway, the issue is not the woman you (or I) are with. It's the guys jealous you're getting pussy. So wear the insults as a badge of pride.

And here is an irony for you. Around ten years ago they rearranged the building where I work and moved me temporarily upstairs away from the Blue Pill writers and near much cooler graphics people. I was plopped in between one total (married!) player and a sort of brainiac tough guy. We all talked endlessly about women -- and never gave each other shit. I didn't even hear it when my wife would come 'round (she worked in the building in management - gag). We all bonded and had each others' backs. Why? Because we were all decent guys, in good shape, getting laid, and none of had any reason to begrudge the other.

The funny thing is that to an outsider, that crew would have seemed like a-holes, while my dad and brother would have appeared as decent, educated men. We were not refined, especially to outsiders. But we were decent to each other. There is a moral there somewhere.

Post: #19

it probably stems from man's competitive drive and desire for validation ie. "glory." If we view women as conquests to a certain extent - and we all do - then another guy who doesn't celebrate our conquest because his taste differs diminishes from our satisfaction and sense of validation. I'm not saying this is the right way to do things, and it is quite certainly not a good alpha attitude to have, but it is what i think most men feel on a subconscious level. It's like winning the NCAA trophy only to see an NBA fan who doesn't give a shit about college ball.

Post: #20

(04-24-2014 11:33 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  it probably stems from man's competitive drive and desire for validation ie. "glory." If we view women as conquests to a certain extent - and we all do - then another guy who doesn't celebrate our conquest because his taste differs diminishes from our satisfaction and sense of validation. I'm not saying this is the right way to do things, and it is quite certainly not a good alpha attitude to have, but it is what i think most men feel on a subconscious level. It's like winning the NCAA trophy only to see an NBA fan who doesn't give a shit about college ball.

That's a good way of looking at it.

Post: #21

(04-24-2014 08:14 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  What are your thoughts?

Nothing drives me crazier than guys who TRY and shame other guys for their preference in women.

I find feminine guys, men of lesser intelligence and men with higher levels of insecurity to be the most guilty of this behavior.

It is a respect/maturity/confidence/success/social issue.

The more respectful,mature, confident, successful and cool a guy is, the less he is likely to do this.

We NEED guys who like different types of girls.
NOT guys all going after the same chick

Post: #22

Take LOOK AT MY HIT IT thread. All lies. One chick with big nose gets a WNB but could be a pussy model and ass fetish model but..NO

That's about the same thing that BB is talking about.

Me and my bud walking through the store and some black chick with a big ass walks by and I'm like oh my gawd! He's like "you're kidding right???"

Then he tells the story 100 times how I was impressed but that azz and how disgusted he was.

Post: #23

BB, I am in agreement with your reasoning, but I would break it down another way.

The reason why men shame other men for their sexual choices/preferences come down to two things:

1) It just a part of how the brain works where illogical, random, chaotic things have to have a reason and fit into a pattern even when they really do not. It is why a guy who has gone from one relationship to the next will tell the guy who has a bunch of one night stands that all of his sex is meaningless. The relationship guy probably ended up being that way through a combination of upbringing and genetics. Rather than admitting that he randomly fit into that role he to has warp reality in order to justify his lifestyle. Even if in reality, you cannot really argue in favor of one or the other.

On top of this humans are social creatures who struggle to justify their lifestyles as a solitary being. This is why we seek out other people who are similar to us, so that we can receive a nod of approval that allows us to more easily accept our lifestyle as the "right" one. When someone's worldview comes into question it creates a level of self-doubt, a bad feeling. In order to resolve this bad feeling, the person will either ostracize the person who has a different lifestyle by shaming them or will try to absorb the person into their worldview by trying to reason with them.

2) As social creatures who work in groups, we are constantly vying for status within the group.

This is why very good looking guys are called "pretty boys" or rich guys who get laid their women are called whores/gold diggers. It is all an attempt to lower their status respective to other men because everyone realizes either consciously or subconsciously that those guys are naturally at the top of the heap.

Men putting forth their sexual preferences while simultaneously cutting down another man's sexual preferences is simply another way to make a grab for higher status. Sexual selectivity can be a symbol of status. This is only if a man can display that quality correctly.

That's my reasoning for all of this.

Post: #24

Quote: Men putting forth their sexual preferences while simultaneously cutting down another man's sexual preferences is simply another way to make a grab for higher status. Sexual selectivity can be a symbol of status. This is only if a man can display that quality correctly.

But. How often are the dudes who engage in the "shaming" getting tail?

I have a one long and many stories to tell about this over the last 30 years and there's many more things that come into play here..I was thinking about starting a "Would you sport it" thread like to a family wedding or walking in the mall in your hometown but the clizowns on my other thread made me think the standard would shoot over the moon to mars.

Post: #25

(04-24-2014 08:14 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  - I've seen a lot of black guys shaming each other for whether they go for blacks or whites. A lot less white men seem to pursue black women (and it's a taboo thing to shame about for white guys) or you'd probably see more of it there.

I don't think that it's a taboo thing. I like black girls, and my friends always try to shame me about it.
I do agree with your post though. I think that guys subconsciously have a desire to justify (at least to themselves), their sexual choices and try to feel superior to others. Also, people sometimes aren't getting laid, and try and shame guys who are, by saying their standards are too low (to feel better about themselves).