Post: #1

What do you guys think about it? I am now a software developer with 10 years of experience. With more and more outsourcing and the fact that I am less interested in picking up new technologies and keeping myself updated with the latest tech news, I am thinking of changing to actuary. I may need to complete a lot of exams which I have been working on.

Post: #2

Actuarial science would be a solid niche to be a freelance writer in.

So another option would be to do the studying, say fuck all to the exams, and go location-independent with it, charging $100 an hour or more.

Would probably take some months to put together a full client list but doable if you positioned yourself correctly.

Just my two biased cents.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #3

I once looked into the field briefly. My only source on it was an internet forum (actuarial outpost?) and commenters were pretty bearish on the prospects of getting a job in the field, although internet people are often more bearish. They were saying that industries using actuaries were consolidating, diminishing demand for actuaries, and that companies were requiring you to pass several exams before they would hire you, instead of just 0 or 1.

(05-11-2014 10:27 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Actuarial science would be a solid niche to be a freelance writer in.

So another option would be to do the studying, say fuck all to the exams, and go location-independent with it, charging $100 an hour or more.

Would probably take some months to put together a full client list but doable if you positioned yourself correctly.

Just my two biased cents.

Do you know what you're talking about? Pretty sure you have to pass multiple exams to even be a contender.

Post: #4

/thread-31674.html

Relevant!

Post: #5

(05-11-2014 10:52 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

(05-11-2014 10:27 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Actuarial science would be a solid niche to be a freelance writer in.

So another option would be to do the studying, say fuck all to the exams, and go location-independent with it, charging $100 an hour or more.

Would probably take some months to put together a full client list but doable if you positioned yourself correctly.

Just my two biased cents.

Do you know what you're talking about? Pretty sure you have to pass multiple exams to even be a contender.

To be a contender for freelance writing?

You may have misunderstood my post.

I don't know anything about actuarial science, but I've done a great deal of work in the insurance niche, which is why I had that thought.

Whenever I hear of healthy industries (oil, insurance, technology, etc), my first thought is that you can either go work in that industry directly, and be rooted to one location, or capitalize on their wealth by learning about the topic and offering them writing and marketing services.

I guess it just depends on whether you're entreprenurial-minded and how much you want your career choice to influence your time and location.

Wasn't intending a derail there - just throwing an out-of-the-box idea out there that a lot of people miss.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #6

dupe

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #7

I think actuaries will be in decline. They are most often used in relationship with the management of pension plans, health plans and human/health related insurance. I think those kinds of job benefits are on the decline, so I would also guess actuaries are. These will be replaced with personal financial planners as people need to handle all of that crap themselves.

Just my opinion.

Post: #8

My old girlfriend and an actuary degree. She works in finance. A lot of banks like smart people in math to evaluate risk for their trading desks which is what she did.

Post: #9

You can't just freelance writing on actuarial stuff since it's highly technical and I doubt anyone would want to pay ads for that content.

And financial planners will never replace actuaries since both job scope are different. Actuaries main job is to set the premium pricing for insurance products. Financial planners don't do that.

Post: #10

Best job in 'Murica according to Careercast / WSJ:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10...4095008558

Hardest?
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10...0456358798

Lots of info here:
http://www.beanactuary.org

Post: #11

As someone with a professional license that requires a particular degree and passing a specialized, difficult exam; I've found that this provides what Warren Buffett called a "moat" around your market if it is legally limited.

Haters who don't have the license and qualifications often opine bearishly, saying it won't matter because of xxxxxxxx.

Always ask them how much they're making.

If I was running an insurance company, I would always hire the person who had passed the tests of the guild.

Everybody's an expert. Only some people pass the exams and prove they're an expert.
It's always easier to run your mouth than pass the exams.

I have a good paying job, and I know the people who hired me would want nothing to do with me if I didn't have the license.I'm the opposite type of personality than what they'd want around.

Essentially , they're hiring the license , not me.
(Please don't ask what the license is....)

Post: #12

(05-11-2014 11:23 PM)roid Wrote:  You can't just freelance writing on actuarial stuff since it's highly technical and I doubt anyone would want to pay ads for that content.

And financial planners will never replace actuaries since both job scope are different. Actuaries main job is to set the premium pricing for insurance products. Financial planners don't do that.

I disagree.

I'm well aware of what actuaries are. Do you really think these companies don't have to market themselves? Insurance companies hire them, therefore companies that sell actuarial services spend money on B2B marketing to sell themselves. Like firms in any other industry, they also have to produce web content, white papers, internal corporate documents, and PR materials.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Again, this applies to almost any industry, but the industries with the money are the ones to consider specialization in. Especially when it's something a lot of other writers don't know anything about.

You'd still need a solid understanding of actuarial science for this sort of thing, but it wouldn't be as technical because your audience is not composed of actuarial professionals. It's a level of understanding that could be reached through self-study.

But I'll bow out of the conversation now. Was just throwing an idea out there and this topic isn't important enough to me to make a case for the versatility and complexity of freelancing.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #13

In the countries where I am somewhat familiar with the subject (South Africa and UK) you have to be hyper smart to be accepted as an actuarial science student at university, and more importantly to pass the professional exams later. Pretty much if you don't have genius level math aptitude you won't be able to handle the work. Also, not to discourage you, but a lot of actuary's I've met have some sort of noticeable autistic condition. Not debilitating, just noticeable. It's common in ultra high IQ people. Think of someone like Bill Gates.

There is a good deal of money in it though. Mostly in the insurance industry, though the trading divisions of investment banks would also hire people with very high level math skills, like actuaries, to be quants (quantitative analysts). Very good money, but most actuaries stay in technical roles since the aptitudes that make them good actuaries often make them poor people managers. Difficult personal relations and can't see the big picture.

Post: #14

In America, I don't think you don't have to be hyper smart to be an actuary. You don't even need a math/science degree(but it can help). From what I've heard and read, you just gotta pass exams. I knew some actuaries as I used to work close to the insurance industry, and they aren't exactly geniuses.

Post: #15

(05-14-2014 06:56 AM)Clint Barton Wrote:  In America, I don't think you don't have to be hyper smart to be an actuary. You don't even need a math/science degree(but it can help). From what I've heard and read, you just gotta pass exams. I knew some actuaries as I used to work close to the insurance industry, and they aren't exactly geniuses.

That's right. In the States, you "just" have to pass SOA/CAS exams. See Actuarial Outpost. In Europe, you have to be mathematician (pure is always better), otherwise they don't talk with you.

In the near future, there should be more opportunities in the field thanks to Solvency II (Omnibus II) directive (fully since 2016). It makes actuarial job more difficult through lot of bureaucracy, so insurance companies will start hiring analysts pretty soon. The salary is comparable with the States, 35-70k euros a year or less in the East/Central Europe, but with lower standard of living.

Post: #16

I am related to one of the top consulting actuaries in the U.S.
http://xreholdings.com/index.php/oakley-e-lee-van-slyke

I expect that if you use the contact page on that website, you can ask for a brief but helpful answer to your question.

Since the 1980s, corporate actuaries have been largely replaced by software. Now it is mostly consulting or sadness.

Post: #17

This is all you need to know about actuaries:

http://www.dwsimpson.com/salary.html

For me, personally, becoming an actuary is basically a "shortcut" to an upper middle class income. Before I discovered the field, I was roughing it out in some dead job like a stupid chump, working for peanuts, putting up with all kinds of morons, and sitting there planning and scheming about how, "One day, when I have experience, I'll go to a better company, maybe even become manager, then I'll be making over $50K!"

Shoot me.

Now, I'm still at a similar dead end job, but the difference is I have already passed one exam. I can't tell you what that feels like, to know I actually have a shot at making real cash in a job that requires me to use my brain where I won't have to deal with blue collar idiot trash and their double negatives. I now actually have a future.

I just passed the exam last week. This has been very meaningful to me. Nothing else I've done has done a goddamn thing for me in life. I speak four languages--who gives a shit? It's "impressive," but does it pay me? My whole life I've heard, "You're so smart." What has my so-called intelligence gotten me? I work with imbeciles who think I'm special 'cause I went to college. I play guitar, I have an excellent ear, people are always shocked when I just pick it up and figure out the chords to a song for the first time. It's nothing for me, it's just relative pitch. "Wow, you're so talented." Who cares? No one is PAYING me. All this crap has brought me jack shit. But THIS exam WILL! This will put real money in my pocket and the ability to plan a real life and a solid future and, ultimately, the final escape from the ghetto gutter that is the USSA. REAL options, not just useless compliments that only make me wonder, "Yeah, if what they say is true, how come my life is this way?"

Yes, it is true that, nowadays, one or two exams won't be enough, not unless you live way out in the middle of nowhere. Especially in high competition cities like New York, you need at least three to start getting interviews.

But hey, how long would it take for a fairly intelligent person to get past the first three? A year to a year and a half, I suppose. For some I've heard it takes two to two and a half. For me, the first exam took me nine months, but I was extremely weak at math when I first started, and had to play catch up for a long time. I took out "Calculus for Dummies" and a bunch of other books from the library just to learn how to integrate and take derivatives. Took one calculus class in college and failed it, didn't even bother showing up for the final. At one point I was studying twelve hours a day and, on a few occasions I remember, pulling my hair out. I always thought that was just an expression. It turns out there is some kind of human need to pull your hair out when you are in a fit of desperation. Anyway, I passed this test, I mastered all the material, it all now seems funny to me. Now that I'm studying for the second, I'm picking up stuff much more quickly. Let's see if I can pass with the first attempt in August.

Anyway, long story short, an actuary is a good option if you are good with math and don't mind being a well-paid corporate type. Also, I don't plan on doing this forever. I want a high-income career so I can begin buying rental property, investing, and doing all the other things that will forever set me free and my future children free.

PS. I do get the feeling I'm of slightly above average intelligence, but not especially high. I've met people with high IQs and it was obvious I was not "one of them." However, I don't think any of that matters. I attribute the few successes I've had not to being "smart," but to my dogged persistence and my ability to focus in on something and nothing else until I've achieved. The majority of people are too stupid or lazy or both to ever stick with a goal, and that is why they get nowhere.

Post: #18

(05-24-2014 11:07 PM)davidvs Wrote:  I am related to one of the top consulting actuaries in the U.S.
http://xreholdings.com/index.php/oakley-e-lee-van-slyke

I expect that if you use the contact page on that website, you can ask for a brief but helpful answer to your question.

Since the 1980s, corporate actuaries have been largely replaced by software. Now it is mostly consulting or sadness.

I don't think so. I have been reading about actuary outsourcing. It's very hard to outsource actuaries due to several issues:

1) There are not many qualified actuaries in India which is the country where majority of actuary outsourcing are supposed to go into. Only 1 FSA in India so far I read.
2) The exams are the entry barriers. Not many people in India are willing to tough it out and pass all the prelims.
3) The actuaries need to understand local regulations and to some extent the culture. These are the hardest part to outsource.

I have come into this conclusion after reading threads in actuarial outpost.

Post: #19

(05-28-2014 12:58 PM)roid Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 11:07 PM)davidvs Wrote:  I am related to one of the top consulting actuaries in the U.S.
http://xreholdings.com/index.php/oakley-e-lee-van-slyke

I expect that if you use the contact page on that website, you can ask for a brief but helpful answer to your question.

Since the 1980s, corporate actuaries have been largely replaced by software. Now it is mostly consulting or sadness.

I don't think so. I have been reading about actuary outsourcing. It's very hard to outsource actuaries due to several issues:

1) There are not many qualified actuaries in India which is the country where majority of actuary outsourcing are supposed to go into. Only 1 FSA in India so far I read.
2) The exams are the entry barriers. Not many people in India are willing to tough it out and pass all the prelims.
3) The actuaries need to understand local regulations and to some extent the culture. These are the hardest part to outsource.

I have come into this conclusion after reading threads in actuarial outpost.

I was not talking about outsourcing. Simply the job description.

Big corporations used to employ many actuaries, to do all sorts of statistical fortune-telling. Insurance corporations, especially, would employ huge numbers of them to estimate future payments to claims-holders. Now a lot of that is done by software.

The result is that the job description of "corporate actuary" has changed significanty since the 1980s.

The remaining corporate actuaries are now dealing with the advanced problems the software cannot handle. Thus the nice salary. But there are many fewer of them.

Before the change "actuary" used to be a nice career for people not especially talented in math, who were willing to use math in a cubicle to solve more interesting problems than a typical accountant would ever see.

Now actuaries need real talent in math, if they want to go anywhere career-wise. Not necessarily innate gifting, but the willingness to study enough to become "good at math" so they can handle the problems in which simulating the real world is not smple.

Post: #20

(05-29-2014 11:19 AM)davidvs Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 12:58 PM)roid Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 11:07 PM)davidvs Wrote:  I am related to one of the top consulting actuaries in the U.S.
http://xreholdings.com/index.php/oakley-e-lee-van-slyke

I expect that if you use the contact page on that website, you can ask for a brief but helpful answer to your question.

Since the 1980s, corporate actuaries have been largely replaced by software. Now it is mostly consulting or sadness.

I don't think so. I have been reading about actuary outsourcing. It's very hard to outsource actuaries due to several issues:

1) There are not many qualified actuaries in India which is the country where majority of actuary outsourcing are supposed to go into. Only 1 FSA in India so far I read.
2) The exams are the entry barriers. Not many people in India are willing to tough it out and pass all the prelims.
3) The actuaries need to understand local regulations and to some extent the culture. These are the hardest part to outsource.

I have come into this conclusion after reading threads in actuarial outpost.

I was not talking about outsourcing. Simply the job description.

Big corporations used to employ many actuaries, to do all sorts of statistical fortune-telling. Insurance corporations, especially, would employ huge numbers of them to estimate future payments to claims-holders. Now a lot of that is done by software.

The result is that the job description of "corporate actuary" has changed significanty since the 1980s.

The remaining corporate actuaries are now dealing with the advanced problems the software cannot handle. Thus the nice salary. But there are many fewer of them.

Before the change "actuary" used to be a nice career for people not especially talented in math, who were willing to use math in a cubicle to solve more interesting problems than a typical accountant would ever see.

Now actuaries need real talent in math, if they want to go anywhere career-wise. Not necessarily innate gifting, but the willingness to study enough to become "good at math" so they can handle the problems in which simulating the real world is not smple.

Misinformation. Every major insurance corporation has a large actuarial department, and entry-level hiring doesn't appear to be subsiding anytime soon. The company that I'm interning at right now (huge international carrier) had its biggest entry-level class EVER this past hiring season.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/math/actuaries.htm

26 percent job growth in the next decade, rated much higher than average.

The Big 4 firms also employ actuaries to do consulting work. These jobs seem to be pretty competitive but higher-paying than their 'regular' insurance counterparts.

I do agree though that people need solid math skills AND discipline to study for long periods of time to successfully enter this field. The preliminary exams are very math-intensive and even if you're a natural, you still need to practice a lot to get used to the types of questions that will show up on the exam. I've passed three so far; they keep getting harder. More and more smart college kids (+international Asians) are following the recent hype about the career so tests will only get more difficult.

But overall it's a job that offers great pay, low stress, normal hours and great security. The one downside that I've noticed so far is that most actuaries tend to live pretty routine inside-the-box lifestyles, so they're not usually the most beneficial to be around for personal development.

If you guys have any questions about the field feel free to PM me, I'm probably in it for the long haul.

Post: #21

Are candidates for the exam required to have taken an actuarial degree program before taking the exam(s)?

Post: #22

Whatever the case, talk to anybody who works in the field before you commit to a career. Get out and meet real people.

I got a 790 on the SAT in math. I'm currently wasting my brains doing shitty IT jobs. How easy or hard would this be for me?

Post: #23

(07-13-2014 10:28 PM)puckerman Wrote:  Whatever the case, talk to anybody who works in the field before you commit to a career. Get out and meet real people.

I got a 790 on the SAT in math. I'm currently wasting my brains doing shitty IT jobs. How easy or hard would this be for me?

This.

I'm considering a different career at this point. I'm great at math and I work my ass off. Slowly realizing however that i'm an entrepreneur at heart.

Talked to a few people in the industry. Some people love it some are like "it's ok". Most of them just love the money.

See what the people in the field say, and go from there.

Post: #24

I have talked with one actuary. And I lurk at actuary outpost forum. Most of them actually love it.

Post: #25

Henry Siegel, who allegedly is an actuary, posts lots of answers on Quora on being an actuary.