Post: #1

All this recent news has me craving a smoke.

I've tried e-cigarettes. I'm torn between thinking they're much safer than normal tobacco and a mystery concoction of cancer chemicals.

Has anyone here done the research? What are the health risks of electronic cigarettes?

I've heard some people suggest that organic tobacco is actually okay and it's actually smoking pesticides that causes all the bad stuff. Haven't done the research on this, but I'm hoping someone could enlighten me.

Post: #2

A lot of the e juice made in china is sketchy,and they have found some bad chemicals in them. I personally would not consume anything made in china more than a couple times personally.
The juice when its pure is just glycerin,and liquid niccotine. (find it funny when people say its just water vaper)
I can't say that inhaling the stuff is good for your lungs,but i don't think it is going to destroy your endurance and give you aids either. Plus as far as i've researched there isn't much info about the effects of vaporizing pure niccotine. so that's sort of a 'what if' factor also.
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Post: #3

There is no evidence of harm...

...but there is no particular evidence that it's safe either.

Absence of evidence does not imply absence of harm. It will take about 20 years before the effects of ecigarettes are reasonably understood, once there is enough time/evidence to understand its safety profile.

Post: #4

They do a poor job imitating the flavor and taste of a cigarette. You'll get your nicotine fix, but its hard as hell to find a cheap one that has a cigarette flavor (I've bought the njoys from time to time when I go off snus around dental appointments-so pricy, and only for like a day does it have cigarette flavor). Bought a cheaper one once, rechargeable, but tasted like shit.

Post: #5

Take these studies with a grain of salt, they could very well be funded by big tobacco. Worth looking into if you want to dig in to it.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/88867/...cigarettes
http://gothamist.com/2014/05/04/studies_...formal.php

Even so, without any real understanding of what it is, or how it affects humans, I have decided to avoid. Even though these vap shops are popping up everywhere, it could be a good business opportunity.

Post: #6

I would say, e-cigarettes are probably less likely to cause the health problems .

Post: #7

Ecigs are great if you're looking to get a nicotine fix. Other than that, they are a nicotine delivery system similar to a cigarette. This time, it's only water and nicotine.

Post: #8

The problem is that the water could get stuck in your lungs and start to mold...
That's what I've heard. And I'm a smoker and this is not the same if you just want the nicotine the bubble gums are better.

Post: #9

(05-28-2014 01:36 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  The problem is that the water could get stuck in your lungs and start to mold...
That's what I've heard. And I'm a smoker and this is not the same if you just want the nicotine the bubble gums are better.

You'd have to be puffing a helluva lot of vapor for the water to pool in your lungs. The lungs absorb liquid slowly, but surely.

Propylene Glycol actually kills bacteria and other infections, however the vegetable glycol can cause infections.

Post: #10

I puff on my e-cigarette quite a lot while I'm at work. There's a lot of debate over whether they're "healthier" than cigarettes, so I'll lay those concerns to rest right now: nobody knows. The health-conscious will tell you not to risk it, and the careless will tell you it's fine. My personal opinion is that it is quite improbable that "e-cigs" are MORE damaging than cigarettes.

That being said, if you're already a smoker, here's my datasheet on ecigs:

[-] E-Cigarettes are marginally cheaper than the real thing AT BEST
The salespeople in these vape shops cropping up like chin hairs or the ever profiteering gas stations across the world will tell you Ecigs will save you money. This is only true if you are:

• NOT using the disposable kind
• An extremely heavy cigarette smoker
• Someone who prefers a truly expensive brand of smoke
• The kind of person who won't waste money "modding" or upgrading their device
  

[+] Your appearance will improve
A lot of the 'soft harms' of smoking (yellowed teeth, smelly hands and hair, unattractiveness to certain girls) are COMPLETELY negated by using a vape or ecig. Not to mention, people will taste a puff of vapour even if their father died from smoking- it seems harmless (note I'm not positing that it is). They're also trendy and somewhat novel, adding potential for conversation.

[-] Charging
Depending on how grounded your lifestyle is on making home every night to a place with electricity and staying put there for eight hours, this might not bother you. Personally I spend a lot of time outside or out drinking and this is more than a minor annoyance. When I was primarily a cigarette smoker, I could ask three people anywhere in the world for a lighter and more often than not come up with some form of spark. Unless you want to buy a stack of batteries for the damn thing (see my earlier comment on gadget hoarding), you have to charge it virtually every day.

[++] Smoking Anytime, Anywhere
I personally am an avid fan of performing smoke tricks and imbibing nicotine when performing tasks requiring concentration, such as writing or driving. Unfortunately, most if not all workplaces prevent you from being able to smoke inside, and many don't enjoy constantly having a vehicle reeking of cigarettes or the accompanying odor that invariably will cling to your clothes. Worse still, in many cities smoking is banned in all bars and restaurants! Vaping out of your ecig is acceptable almost anywhere, except meeting with clients- and even then, it might be preferable to smoking (unless your clients also smoke).

For the purposes of members of this forum, an Ecig is most likely preferable in most situations (salt to taste).

The best part? I can still enjoy the occasional cig while I'm gaming a smoker girl or at a bar where it's prevalent without risking total relapse into 2x pack a day smoking. Through the day, my little vape keeps me from smoking tobacco- when I remember to charge it.

And now my boring workday with a dead ass Ecig in my desk drawer must drag on...

Post: #11

I've used e-cigs for years, primarily making my own liquid concoctions or buying from a few quality, USA-made companies.

You can get all of the ingredients, by themselves, FDA approved (minus perhaps the nicotine). Some flavor companies only use FDA approved ingredients, or the European version of the FDA, such as Flavourart.

Glycerin and/or propylene glycol, flavor, and nicotine. That's it.

If they are indeed toxic (which I'd bet the farm they are not, if you make your own liquid using flavors from Flavourart), then we'd better ban fog machines at clubs, concerts etc... and all aroma-therapy at spas.

My lungs have healed so much, it is equivalent to quitting smoking. I used to smoke around 10 cigarettes a day. Now it's closer to 10 cigarettes a year.

If you do your research and buy the hardware cheap, and make your own liquid, it is significantly cheaper than buying packs of cigarettes.

If you really want the cigarette taste, you can buy organic or high-quality rolling tobacco and mix it with glycerin. Let it sit for a few days, then strain it out. It's like making tea. Viola, you've got your favorite cigarette in e-cig form.

After a while you get over the need for a real cigarette taste, and can easily make your own hookah-like flavors at home.

1 vote highly in favor of e-cigarettes, for what it's worth. I'd be happy to share my favorite companies and places to buy if anyone is seriously interested. I've been a hobbyist for years.

Post: #12

My friend's Dad is only 47 and was reasonably healthy looking for a guy that drank a liter of vodka a week, along with beer, sparks and 2 packs of sonoma cigs a day.

He's had 2 strokes in the last couple of months and is sliding fast towards probably not seeing next year.

I basically stopped drinking last year and never smoke, and want to see this guy last a few more years for my buddy's sake.

Sucks to see a guy that built his own home with his own hands reduced to a shell of himself.

The truth is that he's an extreme alcoholic and the only thing I can see him actually considering doing, if it was done for him, is to replace his smokes with some type of vapor that tasted like the real thing.

(05-28-2014 05:11 PM)Moto Wrote:  My lungs have healed so much, it is equivalent to quitting smoking. I used to smoke around 10 cigarettes a day. Now it's closer to 10 cigarettes a year.

I image this could be life changing for someone with a 30+ year history of a pack or 2 a day.

Quote:If you do your research and buy the hardware cheap, and make your own liquid, it is significantly cheaper than buying packs of cigarettes.

It would have to be cheap to keep him on board. I think he would actually enjoy making the liquid and all that.

Quote:If you really want the cigarette taste, you can buy organic or high-quality rolling tobacco and mix it with glycerin. Let it sit for a few days, then strain it out. It's like making tea. Viola, you've got your favorite cigarette in e-cig form.

It would have to taste like tobacco - pretty strong too I assume or he'd go back. Really interested in hearing more about how to do this.

Quote:I'd be happy to share my favorite companies and places to buy if anyone is seriously interested. I've been a hobbyist for years.

I'm interested in a simple, cheap solution that he would follow to brew his own and that could either charge itself or last a few days. Please PM or tell us more.

Post: #13

Are there any ecigarettes where you can actually sit and puff it like a regular cigarrette? I've had limited experience with e cigarettes bought them twice early on to smoke on airplanes while traveling on long flights. I found that 2 or 3 puffs gave me a buzz and I never get a buzz from regular ciggs anymore which I take it means more nicotine.

I'm definatley addicted to nicotine but just as much so addicted to the whole process of smoking and oral fixation or whatever. For thhat reason even if I can get a whole cigg worth of nicotine in one puff I'm still craving the action of smoking. Are there any eciggs that give a very low dose so you could actually sit there and take say 15-20 puffs without getting a pack worth of nicotine?

Post: #14

Do you guys even fantasize about how bizarre this conversation is to non-smokers? LOL!

If you're not inhaling oxygen, a little residual nitrogen, and a very small percentage of other non-toxic gases, do you think it could somehow be healthy? As if E-Cigarettes have Vitamin C or something?

To each his own forever, but there is no way on earth that this shit is "good" for you.

Post: #15

I wouldn't say it's "good for you" or "healthy", but that's not the point. It is an alternative, making it not good but better, not healthy but healthier, than smoking cigarrettes.

Post: #16

The best over-all company within the US is Vaping Zone. There are slightly cheaper options if you are willing to import from China. All e-cig hardware comes from China, and from a handful of factories even though there are hundreds of companies that put their little logo on the generic e-cigs that they buy in bulk.

For the type of e-cig that you'd want to use in public, I'd recommend one of these starter kits:

http://vapingzone.com/product-list.php?E...-cid2.html

The e-go is more compact and fashionable-looking, but still holds much more charge than the old style e-cigs that tried to look a lot like a regular cigarette and therefore have tiny batteries.

For use at home, I use what's called a MOD or an APV. These will last for days on a single charge. But, it looks like a giant robot dildo. This is one that I've bought before:

http://vapingzone.com/product-info.php?V...d1424.html

However, while this company sells pre-made liquids and do-it-yourself (DIY) flavors, much of it is from China.

For the highest quality flavors at a low price, you can get FlavourArt and flavors from other companies here: http://www.ecigexpress.com/flavors/flavourart-usa.html
Their desert and drink flavors are awesome, but not some much their tobacco flavors.

You can get liquid nicotine from either site. I vape at 11mg/ml. A heavy smoker will want around 25 mg/ml. That means, if you buy liquid nicotine that is 50 mg/ml, then your liquid should be 50% liquid nicotine (of course not pure nicotine, but 50 mg/ml in a glycerin or propylene glycol mix) and 10%-25% flavor (depending on flavor strength, which varies greatly), and the rest pure glycerin or propylene glycol (PG).

All of the actual commercial tobacco extracts are from China. But, I've used them and lived to tell the tale. This one is by far the closest to a real cig as it gets: http://vapingzone.com/product-info.php?V...id395.html

To make your own, just mix tobacco with glycerin or PG. Stuff as much tobacco in there as you can for maximum flavor, it should be saturated. Let it sit a few days. Then put it through a coffee filter into another glass container. It is slow, let it filter through overnight. May favorite tobacco is Peter Stokebye Amsterdam Shag, for this purpose or back when I rolled actual cigarettes. This method is tougher on your hardware than regular e-liquid, as there are some tobacco particulates that get through, so your hardware might not last as long. The vaporizer parts of an e-cig are pretty much disposable anyways, only good for a few weeks to a month of regular use.

This should get you started. You really gotta spend some time on the e-cigarette forum to have a general knowledge base. You gotta get parts that fit each other. For e-go/510 batteries, you need 510/e-go cartomizers/atomizers/clearomizers (the actual vaporizers, or part that makes the liquid turn into vapor).

You can start here:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/infozon...-user.html

Or, if you want to jump right in, call the folks at Vaping Zone they will listen to your needs and suggest a good package or kit. Don't worry if the flavors are from China, it'll be fine.

Post: #17

I've been using a Victory rechargeable e-cig for the last couple of years, also smoking the real ones occasionally. I got that e-cig basically for free with 5 cartridges, just ran out of the last one. These cigs are nothing special, but they do the job.

A few days ago, I ordered this vaporizer http://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-atmos-da...izer-kit-1
Waiting for it to be delivered. I'm not advertising it and maybe I shouldn't have ordered it given that the liquid they send has no nicotine, and it's tobacco flavor, but for $25 I'll give it a try.

I also found this pretty cool E-pipe on ebay for around $40 and will probably order it.


The problem with e-cigs is that they are not that cheap. A small bottle of e-liquid starts at around $15. It's pretty cool for occasional vaping, though.

Post: #18

Been vaping for almost 3 months now. I bought a 'starter kit' that had two full reusable ecigs for around $100.. I just kept one full one and the other battery on me at all times. Rarely was I stuck with 2 dead batteries.. left one of them at my buddies house for a few weeks so I grabbed another starter kit. Now I've got 4 batteries so I'm never stuck without a freshly charged one.

Roughly $300 invested between two starter kits and 5 30ml juice bottles. Was smoking a pack a day before at $11.50 a pack. 90x11.50 = $1035.00

The sketchy part is that the juice I use is 24mg of nicotine per millilitre and the capacity of my 'tank' is 2 ml. 48mg of nicotine minimum a day, where as a pack of typical cigs is 25-30mg total of nicotine. As far as I know my numbers are correct.. so I'm taking in more nicotine than I used to. I'm going to step it down to 18mg when I buy more juice, hopefully eventually getting it to 0mg.

Still love it. Smoke in the casino, bars, non smokers houses, inside at my house, cabs, transit, grocery stores.. list goes on and on.

Post: #19

(01-04-2015 02:37 AM)rdvirus Wrote:  Been vaping for almost 3 months now. I bought a 'starter kit' that had two full reusable ecigs for around $100.. I just kept one full one and the other battery on me at all times. Rarely was I stuck with 2 dead batteries.. left one of them at my buddies house for a few weeks so I grabbed another starter kit. Now I've got 4 batteries so I'm never stuck without a freshly charged one.

Roughly $300 invested between two starter kits and 5 30ml juice bottles. Was smoking a pack a day before at $11.50 a pack. 90x11.50 = $1035.00

The sketchy part is that the juice I use is 24mg of nicotine per millilitre and the capacity of my 'tank' is 2 ml. 48mg of nicotine minimum a day, where as a pack of typical cigs is 25-30mg total of nicotine. As far as I know my numbers are correct.. so I'm taking in more nicotine than I used to. I'm going to step it down to 18mg when I buy more juice, hopefully eventually getting it to 0mg.

Still love it. Smoke in the casino, bars, non smokers houses, inside at my house, cabs, transit, grocery stores.. list goes on and on.

Reducing the nicotine levels is definitely the way to go. I only social smoke and once my liquids run out I'm dropping down to a 0mg currently on 11mg and 6mg, Strapple and lime respectively. I enjoy vaping but find I am doing it way too much.

Post: #20

I use a vaporizer at work and in my car. In Northern Virginia, I have to pick up riders so I can get in the Express Lane without having to pay, so I try to avoid my car smelling like smoke.

The vaporizer works pretty good. You can buy all kinds of flavors. I started my ecig journey with a Greensmoke, which is a battery with cartridges you screw on. It looks like a cigarette. I used to keep it around for quick fixes, like if I don't have time to get to a smoking area, I can duck in the men's room and take a few drags on it in a stall. It doesn't give off enough smoke for anyone to notice. I also used to puff on it while driving into work when my riders were asleep.

I tend to prefer the candy and desert flavors, and don't have much experience with the tobacco flavors. One place I order from, https://joostvapor.com/ in Michigan, will send you a random sample at the same nicotine level you order. Last time, they sent me a 15ml of "Michigan's Finest", which has a pleasing tobacco flavor for those who are interested and looking for something like that.

Post: #21

(05-25-2014 10:34 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  All this recent news has me craving a smoke.

I've tried e-cigarettes. I'm torn between thinking they're much safer than normal tobacco and a mystery concoction of cancer chemicals.

Has anyone here done the research? What are the health risks of electronic cigarettes?

I've heard some people suggest that organic tobacco is actually okay and it's actually smoking pesticides that causes all the bad stuff. Haven't done the research on this, but I'm hoping someone could enlighten me.

The biggest risk is that you stop paying big tobacco, which donates a lot of money to the government. Therefore the government has incentive to tell you burning plants mixed with chemicals like arsenic is safer than breathing in water vapour.

Its that simple.

Post: #22

I've heard the pharmaceutical industry has been trying to put a stop to ecigs. They're cutting into profits from quit smoking drugs.

Post: #23

Do the guys on here smoke E-cigarettess solely as an alternative for cigarettes?

Or do they have merit for non-smokers as well, such as improved energy or focus?

Post: #24

(08-14-2016 06:19 AM)Lime Wrote:  Do the guys on here smoke E-cigarettess solely as an alternative for cigarettes?

Or do they have merit for non-smokers as well, such as improved energy or focus?

I started because I smoked for 10 years, it was the only thing that got me off real cigarettes. I've been vaping for about 4-5 years now and if I had to give it up today I'd just go back to smoking, I'm just as addicted to vaping as I was to smoking. If your not a smoker I see no benefit in picking up vaping, I view it as a harm reduction alternative for smokers.

Post: #25

(08-14-2016 06:19 AM)Lime Wrote:  Do the guys on here smoke E-cigarettess solely as an alternative for cigarettes?

Or do they have merit for non-smokers as well, such as improved energy or focus?

I use it solely as an alternative to cigarettes. I've never been a heavy smoker, but I used to smoke cigarettes occasionally and would buy a pack on a night out, smoke all of it and then feel like shit next morning. With vaping, there is no foul taste in my mouth, no bad smell, also very little or no coughing.

If you don't smoke at all, don't start vaping either. While I believe that vaping is much better for your health than smoking tobacco, there may be some negative effects we are simply not aware of at this point. Just like people used to smoke tobacco for centuries and had no idea about its harmful effects.

I don't feel any significant effect on energy or focus from vaping. It doesn't mean there is no effect, but I would start vaping just for that. Just get some coffee or go to the gym if you need more energy.