Post: #1

This thread is not hating on those who go to the gym and lift seriously; I train 4-6 times a week. Just wanted to start a discussion.

Lifting at the gym earlier today working on abs and I thought "I really got to get these to pop for summer, blah blah need to cut out more carbs blah" and in the mirror in front of me I saw the reflection of one of the few fit girls that uses free weights and I thought "Her torso looks really solid... wait, am I thinking about my physique as much as a girl does? Should I not be?"

Obviously, taking care of your body and being above average or better in health and appearance has many benefits besides for gaming. But, the reality is that generally women value the appearance of their body more than men do, as they cannot effectively well compensate with other aspects of their life such as charisma, money, or intelligence. [This relates to a recent thought I had of why women care so much about their appearance when naked and about to bang. I missed out on a notch cause the girl wasn't comfortable being naked with me and I didn't consider it worth my time to be patient].

It is easy to state that unnatural professional bodybuilders take training too far for the purposes of gaming/finding a mate, and those that never lift or do athletic activities are choosing to not maximize a potential way to increase chances with girls.

How much should a person care about their physique? Is it unmasculine to think about physique as much as many women do? How do you prioritize developing your physical appearance compared to making money and the other aspects of your life?

Post: #2

Personally, maintaining and improving my physique is really important. In all honesty, I think I'd probably go to the gym over working more, trying to stack cash, and (although I don't know how I did yet), might have done better in my exams if I'd spent less time lifting weights and mma etc.
For me, being in good shape makes me happy and every time I look in the mirror I feel proud, so it's hard to argue that I overprioritise it. But I think that being too concerned is when it shifts from a healthy "I can't wait to lift weights", or "I look good, maybe bigger traps needed", to being more neurotic and starting to beat yourself up too much about missing sessions or not looking good enough. So even a guy who is into working out could be on the right side of the line as long as its positive not negative motivation, and he has other interests. Being overly singular probably suggests excess concern.

Post: #3

What are your examples of masculinity? Many masculine figures are aesthetically beautiful. You think Arnold doesn't care about his body?

There's nothing effeminate about wanting to be in great shape. It's when you feel insecure about your body, or when you spend too much time at the gym and not enough on your work/studies (or whatever pursuit drives your life), that your masculinity takes a hit.

Attractive people care how they look. Man, woman, doesn't matter.

Post: #4

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I enjoy being at the gym and sometimes I think about trying steroids/hgh due to 1) curiosity, but more so 2) being able to lift more volume each day, which will inevitably accelerate growth.

That's interesting how you bring up positive and negative motivation, never thought of it like that.

(06-12-2014 05:10 PM)Cyr Wrote:  Personally, maintaining and improving my physique is really important. In all honesty, I think I'd probably go to the gym over working more, trying to stack cash, and (although I don't know how I did yet), might have done better in my exams if I'd spent less time lifting weights and mma etc.
For me, being in good shape makes me happy and every time I look in the mirror I feel proud, so it's hard to argue that I overprioritise it. But I think that being too concerned is when it shifts from a healthy "I can't wait to lift weights", or "I look good, maybe bigger traps needed", to being more neurotic and starting to beat yourself up too much about missing sessions or not looking good enough. So even a guy who is into working out could be on the right side of the line as long as its positive not negative motivation, and he has other interests. Being overly singular probably suggests excess concern.

Post: #5

I like the way you put that. So you believe that many women caring so much about how they look is not at all a feminine trait, just a coincidence that they happen to be females?

(06-12-2014 05:16 PM)polymath Wrote:  What are your examples of masculinity? Many masculine figures are aesthetically beautiful. You think Arnold doesn't care about his body?

There's nothing effeminate about wanting to be in great shape. It's when you feel insecure about your body, or when you spend too much time at the gym and not enough on your work/studies (or whatever pursuit drives your life), that your masculinity takes a hit.

Attractive people care how they look. Man, woman, doesn't matter.

Post: #6

I believe that one thing that attractive, sexually desirable men and women generally have in common is a high regard for their own physical fitness.

Think of your most masculine heroes and role models. I bet that most of them exhibit a high regard for appearance, or at least they look damn good.

John F. Kennedy Wrote:For physical fitness is not only one of the most important keys to a healthy body; it is the basis of dynamic and creative intellectual activity. The relationship between the soundness of the body and the activities of the mind is subtle and complex. Much is not yet understood. But we do know what the Greeks knew: that intelligence and skill can only function at the peak of their capacity when the body is healthy and strong; that hardy spirits and tough minds usually inhabit sound bodies.

In this sense, physical fitness is the basis of all the activities of our society. And if our bodies grow soft and inactive, if we fail to encourage physical development and prowess, we will undermine our capacity for thought, for work and for the use of those skills vital to an expanding and complex America.

http://cnnsi.com/vault/article/magazine/.../index.htm

Post: #7

In my opinion, once you start talking about gear, you've gotten to/gone past the point where being fit is about health and other people, and is more about what you want.

That night be subjective, but the nature of the question is subjective. I don't think you can answer it with bench press benchmark, or body fat percentage.

WIA

Post: #8

my buddy challenged me to a "bodybuilding contest" one winter, to see who could look best by beginning of August. He was on steroids, i did natural. By the time it got to cutting i took green tea, caffeine and ephedrine, then the last month this topical solution that tightens the skin (it says it burns fat but it's probably the effect of tight skin). I clearly "won" and a picture at the beach from that time i use on tinder, i'm in 9/10 shape. But i got zero action save for a heavy makeout with an 18 year old hottie. There's another thread about diminishing returns and i think for the population at large when you get lean or big enough that you can only get there by taking extra supplements/ drugs, it's too much both from the personal standpoint and also perception. You really only need to not be fat and be strong or look like you're strong. For what it's worth i think this accounts for clothes and style as well. Just be well-dressed, no need to buy Gucci's flashy runway items (as i've done, to zero results)

Post: #9

Its all about how you feel. If you go to the gym strictly for other people's reactions, vanity, and attention whoring, maybe you won't feel that great at the end.

If you go consistently, and feel good about your body but knowing theres always that little bit you can improve, feeling healthy, feeling like you have a slight competitive advantage over your effeminate hipster competition should you decide to hit a bar, then you're definitely on the right track.

Post: #10

It's fine to take care of yourself and take pride in your appearance, but obsessing about how you look is clearly a feminine behavior and should be avoided.

So for practical purposes this means do your regular workouts, eat healthy, keep your skin/hair in check, and don't dress like a total slob. Your appearance shouldn't be something you spend a lot of time thinking about as a man. Once you get the basics down (clothes, good haircut, etc...) and develop discipline (with workout and diet) your appearance will basically take care of itself.

Unless you are a bodybuilder or fitness model and make money from your physique, standing in front of a mirror obsessing about your abs is basically homosexual.

Post: #11

(06-12-2014 07:59 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  In my opinion, once you start talking about gear, you've gotten to/gone past the point where being fit is about health and other people, and is more about what you want.

That night be subjective, but the nature of the question is subjective. I don't think you can answer it with bench press benchmark, or body fat percentage.

WIA

But couldn't you be on gear, and still enjoying it? Just because you're doing it for yourself (ie. a non logical/ justifiable reason) doesnt mean that you're over concerned necessarily.

Post: #12

(06-12-2014 10:13 PM)scorpion Wrote:  It's fine to take care of yourself and take pride in your appearance, but obsessing about how you look is clearly a feminine behavior and should be avoided.

[...]

Unless you are a bodybuilder or fitness model and make money from your physique, standing in front of a mirror obsessing about your abs is basically homosexual.

I would disagree that obsessively focusing on building a nice set of abs is the same thing as wanting to fuck a dude.

There are two kinds of behaviors that people label as obsession. The first is chronic insecurity, and I think that's what you're referring to as a 'feminine behavior' (I would agree). The second is unapologetic focus, and that's what gets results in the gym.

If you want to build a beautiful body, sometimes you have to actually look at it.

Moreover, checking out your pump is a GREAT way to get motivated. When your muscles are engorged from all the blood, they get bigger. It allows you to see how your gains may look if you keep working the same muscle groups. It's invigorating to see your muscles pumped up, and that leads to more hard work.

I used to work out shirtless in the weight room of my dorm, which had mirrors all over the walls like many gyms do. I made a lot of gains in that time, and my deadlift 1RM went from 225 to 435 at a body weight of 180. Sorry to throw up numbers but my point is that I got pretty strong. I would flex in the mirrors and all that shit, didn't care if someone thought I was a meathead because it makes no difference what impression they get of me. Seeing my gains and identifying my weak points visually was a source of motivation for me to keep working on my body.

I didn't bang a single dude in that timespan (not even one!), so I wouldn't call it homosexual.

Post: #13

When I started out losing weight and getting in shape my original reason was to make it easier to get laid.

However as time passes and I look better and better in the mirror every day, my attitude has changed. I feel good about seeing a healthy man in the mirror, screw what it makes women think.

Quote:Disregard females
Acquire health

Post: #14

When you hit 4% bodyfat at 130kg

Post: #15

Is reaching a certain weight or look your primary mission in life right now (which is totally fine imo)? Then that point is far far away. But if it isn't and your social life or making money/geting educated starts to suffer then roll back a couple of notches. Do you see your mates a lot less because your'e not drinking at all and don't want to ruin your sleeping schedule? Then maybe roll back a notch.

Post: #16

I had that moment before and the tighter I get (more buff), the more obsessed I become at times..start looking in the mirror..it's a tough question.

And I don't have the answer as of yet.

Post: #17

(06-13-2014 11:10 AM)Moma Wrote:  I had that moment before and the tighter I get (more buff), the more obsessed I become at times..start looking in the mirror..it's a tough question.

And I don't have the answer as of yet.

This exactly.

I used laugh inside at bodybuilders and their vanity and near obsession. I used to think, "meh, I just lift to get strong and if it helps me get girls then cool".

Eventually I got tired of being a fatass and really looked into nutrition and training and such and now dropped almost 10 kg and for the first time in my life, I have a physique where I can see all muscles in defintion, the v-shape etc. I would lie if I said there isn't an addictive effect.

It's like any kind of self improvement I guess, once you begin to see results that you thought were unattainable before, you begin analyzing. Something which seemed boring before now seems like a challenge and almost become a hobby.

As for getting girls? I think losing fat in the face and being slim around the waist has been much more important. Haven't had any girls go crazy over my naked body compared to the fatter version, so I doubt it really matters that much if you're already decently muscular.

V-taper, slim midsection, defined face, that's basically my conclusion on best returns on effort for lifting.

Post: #18

As soon as they become fanatics about it.

Fanatics about anything are intolerable...jesus freaks, extreme left or right wing groups, bodybuilders who post 5 selfies a day with the caption "GET IT BRAH!", etc, etc.

Post: #19

It becomes "too much" when it starts to have a negative effect on some other fundamental aspect of your life.

It's "too much" if it starts causing problems in:

-money
-health
-career
etc.

If concerning yourself with your physique is NOT causing a problem in any of these areas.. Then, I say get into the best fucking shape you can! Why not?

What a man concerns himself with is his business and no one elses.

People will criticizing us for being into our bodies but they will spend their free time watching television, looking at porn, and playing with their phone.