Post: #1

I'm coming off a neck injury that has had me out of the gym or very limited lifts for 2.5 months. With more time on my hands, I've been contemplating how to approach lifting into my 30s to get the most out of my routine terms of muscle/posture/athleticism but also be sustainable for the long-term. While they are referred to the "king and queen" of lifts, it's also widely accepted that squats and deadlifts inflict a toll on your body over the long haul, especially if you mess up the form. While I don't think it was directly related to lifting, my neck injury has certainly prompted some soul searching. But I hesitate to cut Squats and DLs out completely from my routines at this point as I'm only 31, and they seem like such fundamental movements- I really feel they improve my posture in a way that leg press or hack squat machines just don't.

What I've been considering doing, is maintaining barbell Squats and DLs in my leg days going forward, but basically not pushing to failure or trying to focus on the amount of weight I'm throwing up, setting new records, etc. Instead basically focusing on form/posture (shout to D&P's content on alpha posture exercises) but stop short of failure; a couple sets each of medium intensity 10-15 reps. Then do high intensity and go to failure for Leg Press, Hack Squats, Leg Curls, Leg Extension.

Anyway that's the conclusion/plan I've come to in recent days and is no means set in stone, just seems like a "happy medium" to keep them in my routine but lower the risk of injury over the long haul. But I'm posting here to hear from any older lifters on here about how they have modified their routines, or how you've seen other older guys modify their routines, etc.

Post: #2

Working off of what MikeCF talks about (check out his dangerandplay.com site). I am doing lighter weight and going slow...long counts. I am actually getting more soreness than I have doing my old routine, which tells me maybe I wasn't working hard enough before.

Even on bench I have dropped down to 185 as my normal weight to work with. I just do them slow as fuck and then kill myself off with pushups when I have reached my fatigue point.

Post: #3

(06-29-2014 06:04 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Working off of what MikeCF talks about (check out his dangerandplay.com site). I am doing lighter weight and going slow...long counts. I am actually getting more soreness than I have doing my old routine, which tells me maybe I wasn't working hard enough before.

Even on bench I have dropped down to 185 as my normal weight to work with. I just do them slow as fuck and then kill myself off with pushups when I have reached my fatigue point.

Yeah I've been doing the slow negatives/similar HIT style since I was 24-25. Say what you will about the guy but Tim Ferriss actually got me into HIT-style back in 2007 when he did a post on it. I found I was getting better results pushing one set to failure than 3, 4 sets per exercise and it saves a SHITLOAD of time which is great if you lead a busy life / have priorities outside of the gym.

Anyway, are you still pushing to failure like that on Squats and Deadlifts?

Post: #4

If you continue to squat, consider switching to front squats. You must maintain proper form or you will dump the bar. They're excellent for developing good posture. There's no cheating with front squats. If you haven't done them before they will feel awkward and uncomfortable in the shoulders. Practice with just a bar or broomstick for muscle memory.

I'm 50 and I used to do overhead squats and back squats, but it was eventually too much stress on my lower back. A few years ago an MRI revealed that I have degenerative disc disease-it sounds worse than it actually is. Front squats have been a great replacement exercise and there has been absolutely no further pain or tingling in the legs. Of course it's imperative to do core strengthening exercises along with your squat and DL routine.

Just my .02¢

Post: #5

Recently, I have been trying out that machine (bad with names) where you are sort of upside down and do leg presses.

I still deadlift, just less weight.

I will probably still do normal squats from time to time. I just don't think I can safely get to fatigue. Even with those bars there to catch the weight if I can't drive it back up, but I bet my posture would go before my legs did and I just don't wanna take the risk.

Post: #6

If squats aren't working for you, or you're sustaining injury, use the plate-loaded hack squat and leg press instead.

Understand that you don't get nearly the strength building from those machines, even with more weight, because your back is supported.

It does work though. I've gotten huge with the hack squat and leg press only (super-setting) and I am in my late 30s.

Post: #7

(06-30-2014 12:11 AM)Sugar Wrote:  If squats aren't working for you, or you're sustaining injury, use the plate-loaded hack squat and leg press instead.

Understand that you don't get nearly the strength building from those machines, even with more weight, because your back is supported.

It does work though. I've gotten huge with the hack squat and leg press only (super-setting) and I am in my late 30s.

It's awesome/motivating to hear you've gotten great results just from focusing on those two exercises.

I haven't got seriously injured yet - I'm just trying to mitigate risk. So I think I'll keep them in my routine for now, but not push all the way to failure - treat them as warm up sets basically. Then do high-intensity for leg press/hack squat.

Post: #8

As I continue to recover from paralysis 8 months back (broke my back at t12) this stuff has been in my mind, as I pretty much had to start from the bottom again from the waist down.

I use machines a lot more than free weights for the lower body, smith squats that keep you in a single plane of motion, hack squats, and I deadlift off the smith machine and shrug assist machines. I have only just started to barbell deadlift 225 and barbell squat 95 again, so you can see where I'm coming from (used to pull 475, squat about 375). Essentially, form is everything. Make form your highest of priorities, and you won't get hurt. By using concrete form, you lift less, but you are putting strain on the proper muscles, and creating the neurologic memory.

Now, I talk to guys that are 40+ and they say they cannot squat/deadlift anymore, but these guys are still huge. Do assistive exercises on machines, concentrate on the form, and wear a belt to save your back on heavier sets. Then again, I still see 50+ year olds squatting and pulling insane weight, but these guys are the outliers. Listen to your body and all will fall into place. Most guys don't workout to compete, they workout to increase the longevity and quality of life, and look good. Keep that in the back of your mind and you won't be too concerned with lifting so hard you may injure yourself.

Post: #9

FinalEpic, sorry to hear about the injury but glad to hear you are starting to work your way back.

Post: #10

(06-30-2014 10:55 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  FinalEpic, sorry to hear about the injury but glad to hear you are starting to work your way back.

Thank you sir, lots of work ahead, but thought I could give my insights about what really is important in the weight room. If anything, it has taught me how to train smarter, concentrate on peak contractions, and not care about impressing others. Form > throwing around weights.

Post: #11

(06-30-2014 11:00 AM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

(06-30-2014 10:55 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  FinalEpic, sorry to hear about the injury but glad to hear you are starting to work your way back.

Thank you sir, lots of work ahead, but thought I could give my insights about what really is important in the weight room. If anything, it has taught me how to train smarter, concentrate on peak contractions, and not care about impressing others. Form > throwing around weights.

I agree I pulled a muscle deadlifting right before a long trip a couple months ago. I was "wow that felt easy, lets throw on more weight. Pulled muscle - doh!" This was when I made a change to HIT (well my version). Luckily I healed up before a long flight, but now it is more about getting to fatigue safely and slowly.

Last week, I saw some kid deadlifting 315 and he was bouncing the fuck out of it - literally seemed to jump 6 inches off the ground. He also did some war cry thing before each lift. I wanted to ask him if he could do them without the bounce but didn't want to make fun of him. He also stood around after each rep trying to get people to look at him.

I lost a few months trying to mess with 315 on the bench a year ago. It isn't worth the risk. I realized how unhappy I was not being able to lift, there is something enjoyable about just lifting for the pleasure of lifting.

Post: #12

(06-29-2014 05:46 PM)poledaddy Wrote:  I'm coming off a neck injury that has had me out of the gym or very limited lifts for 2.5 months. With more time on my hands, I've been contemplating how to approach lifting into my 30s to get the most out of my routine terms of muscle/posture/athleticism but also be sustainable for the long-term. While they are referred to the "king and queen" of lifts, it's also widely accepted that squats and deadlifts inflict a toll on your body over the long haul, especially if you mess up the form. While I don't think it was directly related to lifting, my neck injury has certainly prompted some soul searching. But I hesitate to cut Squats and DLs out completely from my routines at this point as I'm only 31, and they seem like such fundamental movements- I really feel they improve my posture in a way that leg press or hack squat machines just don't.

What I've been considering doing, is maintaining barbell Squats and DLs in my leg days going forward, but basically not pushing to failure or trying to focus on the amount of weight I'm throwing up, setting new records, etc. Instead basically focusing on form/posture (shout to D&P's content on alpha posture exercises) but stop short of failure; a couple sets each of medium intensity 10-15 reps. Then do high intensity and go to failure for Leg Press, Hack Squats, Leg Curls, Leg Extension.

Anyway that's the conclusion/plan I've come to in recent days and is no means set in stone, just seems like a "happy medium" to keep them in my routine but lower the risk of injury over the long haul. But I'm posting here to hear from any older lifters on here about how they have modified their routines, or how you've seen other older guys modify their routines, etc.

I'm over 50 and a few weeks ago went back into the gym after a three year layoff. I am doing squats and deadlifts in my routine. To prevent injury, I am obsessed with proper form and I started off LIGHT (empty bar for squats and 95 lbs for deadlift) and slowly add weight each workout (5 lbs for squats and 10 lbs for deadlifts).

This slow ramp-up is allowing me to get my form down pat before I hit the heavy weights and time for my tendons and joints to adapt to the workload. Also, the key is to do proper warm-up sets once you start moving up in weight. So far, it is working for me. I'm starting week four on my program today and it will be a while before I hit the truly challenging weights; but, I will hit them with good form and adapted tendons and joints. Of course, YMMV -- just my $.02.