Post: #1

Quote:Leslie and I were college sweethearts. We met at Indiana University in 2004. I was working as a costume designer for the school play, and she was one of the actresses.

We had a slow courtship -- a friendship that turned into a romantic relationship

Quote:In 2005, I graduated and moved to New York City to attend a theater program at Juilliard, and Leslie and I continued dating long-distance while she finished up her senior year. The separation was hard on her, but I was able to fly back to Indiana to see her every couple of months.

During one of my visits, Leslie asked me to go car shopping with her. It was her first time buying a vehicle, and she wanted my input. There was just one problem: When the salesperson at the dealership processed Leslie's application, he saw that she had a low credit score and told her she'd need a cosigner to qualify for the loan.

Leslie was surprised because she didn't have a lot of debt, but it turned out that there were a couple of nicks on her credit report due to medical expenses. Not wanting to let the sale get away so easily, the salesperson looked at me and asked if I could cosign. I thought, "Why not?"

Quote:The next year, I moved to Connecticut to study production design at Yale. Leslie had just graduated and relocated to be with me. We moved into an $800, one-bedroom apartment and started splitting our household expenses.

Leslie found a job in a jewelry store, making about $30,000 a year. I was an unemployed graduate student, but I received a monthly stipend -- less than $2,000 -- from school. Money was tight, but I wasn't worried. I used my credit cards to float us when we needed them.

When our lease was up about six months later, we wanted to upgrade to a bigger place because we were planning a future together -- marriage, kids, the whole thing. At the time, it seemed like a good idea to buy a condo, even though we weren't making enough money to afford such a big purchase (and we didn't have any savings). But I'd always heard it was better to buy than to rent.

The housing market was at an all-time high, and we were easily approved for a $178,000 loan, with no money down. Once again, I had the better credit score, so the lender put the mortgage in my name.

Leslie wanted to buy all new furniture, so I came up with the brilliant idea to take out a student loan for the cost of furnishing the condo -- plus moving fees we couldn't afford to cover, either.

Quote:It had been so quick and easy to get a student loan a few months before, so I thought, "Why not do it again?" And that's how it went: Every six months, whenever we needed extra cash, I'd simply take out another student loan to cover our bases.

The icing on the cake? When I proposed to Leslie in 2007, I bought her a $6,500 diamond engagement ring -- with money from a student loan.

More than a year passed before I started to worry about our debt. And that's exactly what I thought it was: our debt. I didn't think it made a difference that all of it -- the condo, $25,000 of credit card debt, $70,000 in student loans -- was in my name.

Quote:soon after I finished grad school and a few months before our wedding, the student loan bills -- about $750 each month -- started rolling in.

By that point, Leslie's career had taken off, and she was earning much larger paychecks. We were renting our condo in Connecticut and had moved into a $2,500-a-month apartment in Brooklyn so Leslie could be closer to her six-figure sales job on Wall Street. Meanwhile, I had a string of low-paying theater jobs.

Quote:Looking back, I should've noticed at least one red flag: Leslie always spent money as quickly as she made it. I didn't think anything of it when she had the retail job at the jewelry store. Her paychecks weren't that big, so it didn't seem like she was shelling out a lot. But when she got the Wall Street job, she'd blow an entire month's salary on Coach bags and shoes.

Quote:We'd only been married for six months when Leslie told me that she wanted a divorce. I was blindsided. As far as I knew, we weren't having any trouble in our relationship. But Leslie's feelings had changed.<

I couldn't get a straight answer from her as to why she wanted to end things. She talked in circles about how marriage wasn't what she thought it was going to be -- how she thought she'd be more in love with me.

So after just a year and a half of marriage, we divorced in 2010 -- and I was on the hook for all of our debt.

Quote:I moved back to Indiana to live with my parents to save money. I took a job as a college professor, while also working as a waiter and taking on other odd jobs, like working as a sign-holder for a cell phone company, to pad my income.

Leslie gave me $5,000, which put a dent in our debt, and then I drew up a plan for us to split the rest. She agreed to pay me an additional $300 each month for the remaining amount -- about $15,000 at that point. But after five months, she stopped making payments, saying her expenses in New York were high and she didn't want to contribute to paying back my student loans.

I took Leslie to court in 2011, but the judge only ordered her to pay $5,000 to cover some of the condo-related expenses.

Quote:I declared bankruptcy last year in order to absolve myself of all responsibility for the house. Honestly, I felt relieved -- and ready for a fresh financial start.

These days I'm slowly but surely putting the pieces back together without Leslie. I still live with my parents, but I've learned to live well within my $38,000-per-year salary as a professor.

I've still got about $50,000 in student loans, but I'm chipping away at them a few hundred dollars every month.

source

Post: #2

(07-16-2014 01:29 AM)bacon Wrote:  

Quote:I've still got about $50,000 in student loans, but I'm chipping away at them a few hundred dollars every month.

I've got about $50K in student debt, but I just graduated a little while ago.

However, in my case, instead of getting married, I've chosen a lifestyle overseas that costs $1000 a month while I take in $3000 per month.

That's how you put a dent in debt.

On a related note, I never went to graduate school and I'm glad I got my degree, despite what it cost.

Post: #3

His problem isn't that he married a bit spender, but a big slut.

Post: #4

Once a woman start making way more money than you that relationship is over.

Post: #5

Dude violated the sacred rule:
Who pays makes the decisions.

My regular made a surprised face when I told her best friend that, if he's paying for something then why should she give her opinion?

Either way, dude is a stooge for paying for everything and putting it under his name. If a broad cannot afford something and has nice things, then it means that someone else is paying for them. Before making a broad a regular, check her finances.

Post: #6

He got screwed in divorce court. When you get married, aren't your finances combined? Also, if she earns more money, shouldn't she be shouldering a greater burden?

Post: #7

This man made a slew of financial and personal decisions that were terrible. He married not just a slut but a woman with no idea how to handle money - two peas in a pod, right? He took out student loans not to pay tuition or book costs, but to cover creature comforts. He made bad decision after bad decision for years, but that isn't the story here, is it?

Notice he only mentions his parents as bit actors to take him in after he fucks himself in the ass for years with bad financial and romantic decisions. Where were they when he taking jobs in a theater while taking out student loans to pretend he and his girlfriend were better off financially? Further, and more importantly, where are her parents? Fuck all this "women are X, Y, or Z" shit we get around here, grown mothers who give a shit about their daughters don't allow their daughters to ruthlessly suck a man dry. They don't stand by when their daughters blow all their money on what amounts to worthless social tchotchke's. I bet her parents are just as uninvolved in her life as his parents are in his.

Leaving aside family, what about student loan advisers? Career counselors? It shows how fucking worthless government bureaucrats are: Did anybody tell him success in the theater industry is about as fickle as an industry can be? That you need to diversify your talents (acting/production/writing/management) in order to maximize your ability to succeed? Honestly, is he good looking? Why work in the theater industry if you are ugly?

No wonder this man made so many poor decisions: he was manning a ship that he was never taught how to handle. It is like tossing the sticks of an Xbox in a hands of newbie and wondering why he is getting roasted in Call of Duty.

Honestly, this about how society doesn't give too fucking squirts of piss about you. His parents blew shit and nobody employed in the Let's Rob A Generation Of Their Wealth Before It Burns A Hole In Their Pocket (student loan industry) checked this man. Nobody educated him on how to be a man, how to care for himself as a man and how to respect himself with women. He did what most men do: bend over backwards for women and cater to their every whim. He cleaned himself out for a woman, moved back in with his parents and is making less than a GM of McDonald's.

Men like him harbor deep resentment towards women like his ex-wife. Taught that it is inappropriate to express such lurid and honest anger towards women, men bury the pain and anguish as deep as they can in the stony soil of their soul. The twin vortexes of male denial of their own pain with feminism produces men completely and utterly unable to deal with the bullshit that life deals them, becoming clones of Chris Gethard: men with shitty lives and spends most of time justifying why they deserve shitty lives.

He concludes his piece talking about how you should never take on financial responsibility for somebody else, which is a false conclusion. The real conclusion is you should never carry financial burdens for people who don't care about you. Since nobody has truly cared about him in his life, it flows naturally that he comes to the conclusion that you should never carry financial water for somebody else.

Post: #8

No surprises why she divorced him. This kind of herbery is just going to make that pussy clam shut.

Post: #9

Stories like this are the exact reason why the red pill exists.

(07-16-2014 01:49 AM)pitt Wrote:  Once a woman start making way more money than you that relationship is over.

Very true.

Post: #10

An American love story. Beautiful.

He's 31/32 now. He'll still be paying this off past 40.

I disagree that his ex-wife was naive. She worked on Wall Street, after all. I wouldn't be surprised if, at some level, she marked him for that car purchase. She probably went in the week before and got rejected, then came back with him. The salesman would have been in on the con. Perhaps she didn't do it consciously, but my guess is that she's been doing this all her life with men (notably her father) and so her ex-husband was just a continuation of that. It may have even been that (at least at first) she felt some genuine affection for her ex-husband (because her affections for her father never stopped her conning him either).

Post: #11

(07-16-2014 02:22 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  This man made a slew of financial and personal decisions that were terrible. He married not just a slut but a woman with no idea how to handle money - two peas in a pod, right? He took out student loans not to pay tuition or book costs, but to cover creature comforts. He made bad decision after bad decision for years, but that isn't the story here, is it?

Notice he only mentions his parents as bit actors to take him in after he fucks himself in the ass for years with bad financial and romantic decisions. Where were they when he taking jobs in a theater while taking out student loans to pretend he and his girlfriend were better off financially? Further, and more importantly, where are her parents? Fuck all this "women are X, Y, or Z" shit we get around here, grown mothers who give a shit about their daughters don't allow their daughters to ruthlessly suck a man dry. They don't stand by when their daughters blow all their money on what amounts to worthless social tchotchke's. I bet her parents are just as uninvolved in her life as his parents are in his.

Leaving aside family, what about student loan advisers? Career counselors? It shows how fucking worthless government bureaucrats are: Did anybody tell him success in the theater industry is about as fickle as an industry can be? That you need to diversify your talents (acting/production/writing/management) in order to maximize your ability to succeed? Honestly, is he good looking? Why work in the theater industry if you are ugly?

No wonder this man made so many poor decisions: he was manning a ship that he was never taught how to handle. It is like tossing the sticks of an Xbox in a hands of newbie and wondering why he is getting roasted in Call of Duty.

Honestly, this about how society doesn't give too fucking squirts of piss about you. His parents blew shit and nobody employed in the Let's Rob A Generation Of Their Wealth Before It Burns A Hole In Their Pocket (student loan industry) checked this man. Nobody educated him on how to be a man, how to care for himself as a man and how to respect himself with women. He did what most men do: bend over backwards for women and cater to their every whim. He cleaned himself out for a woman, moved back in with his parents and is making less than a GM of McDonald's.

Men like him harbor deep resentment towards women like his ex-wife. Taught that it is inappropriate to express such lurid and honest anger towards women, men bury the pain and anguish as deep as they can in the stony soil of their soul. The twin vortexes of male denial of their own pain with feminism produces men completely and utterly unable to deal with the bullshit that life deals them, becoming clones of Chris Gethard: men with shitty lives and spends most of time justifying why they deserve shitty lives.

He concludes his piece talking about how you should never take on financial responsibility for somebody else, which is a false conclusion. The real conclusion is you should never carry financial burdens for people who don't care about you. Since nobody has truly cared about him in his life, it flows naturally that he comes to the conclusion that you should never carry financial water for somebody else.

These are excellent points. He wasn't taught financial literacy. There's a school of thought that says this is deliberate: we're purposely not taught about how to handle money because we're bring trained to be debt slaves and consumers, not citizens.

Here is Frank Zappa on schools:

"Schools train people to be ignorant, with style. They give you the equipment that you need to be a functional ignoramus. American schools do not equip you to deal with things like logic; they don’t give you the criteria by which to judge between good and bad in any medium or format; and they prepare you to be a usable victim for military-industrial complex that needs manpower."

"As long as you’re just smart enough to do a job and just dumb enough to swallow what they feed you, you’re gonna be alright. But if you go beyond that then you’re gonna have these grave doubts that give you stomach problems, headaches…make you want to go out and do something else. So, I believe that schools mechanically and very specifically try and breed out any hint of creative thought in the kids that are coming out."

Post: #12

This dude got into Juliard, one of the top acting schools in the world... He should be working on broadway shows, not lecturing to college students in Indiana.

Even if it was for design and not acting, he still must have been hot shit at what he does.

I am a little unclear as to why he got ruined in family courts when she is making so much more money than him, shouldn't she be paying alimony?

Post: #13

Most of the debt was incurred pre-marriage. Since his name was on the loans, he's responsible. Unfortunately for him he was an idiot.

Post: #14

1. Romantic relationship starting out as a friend - Beta-Nice-Guy approach, they lived apart and she was probably unfaithful there anyway
2. Complete utter financial illiteracy regarding income and debt and useful debt (good education,some businesses,some real estate) and useless debt(useless education,overpriced real estate,consumer goods, cars etc.)
3. Wife starts earning triple what he does and meets high-powered Alpha guys who are making millions, then she comes home to her Beta Nice Guy - I mean that is Hypergamy 101 - almost all women would be thinking about divorce now unless he was some tough Alpha Motherfucker and it was clear from the beginning that he will never make more money
4. He overspends to keep her happy and live "her" American dream while being the one who earns less money and getting more financially exposed

And yes - he will be paying off that crap until 40 while living in his parents' basement. Great use of his Yale education and superior intelligence. Red Pill would have saved the man.

Post: #15

(07-16-2014 06:28 AM)Menace Wrote:  Most of the debt was incurred pre-marriage. Since his name was on the loans, he's responsible. Unfortunately for him he was an idiot.

the problem was that the big expenditures were made before marriage, and there weren't any real assets accumulated during the period that could outstrip the debt. So going into marriage, only 6 months of their joined income could be considered marital property for equitable distribution purposes.

In theory, however, she still needs to pay him alimony/maintenance. I'm guessing the judge made the reasonable determination that 6 months is not sufficient to support the other guy for very long.

Post: #16

Stories like this are going to reach critical mass when the spigot of easy credit is turned off. Sloots sloot more easily with cheap cash.

2015 may be the year of reckoning for most...

Post: #17

(07-16-2014 01:29 AM)bacon Wrote:  Leslie and I were college sweethearts. We met at Indiana University in 2004. I was working as a costume designer for the school play, and she was one of the actresses.

Post: #18

Quote:We'd only been married for six months when Leslie told me that she wanted a divorce. I was blindsided. As far as I knew, we weren't having any trouble in our relationship. But Leslie's feelings had changed.<

I couldn't get a straight answer from her as to why she wanted to end things. She talked in circles about how marriage wasn't what she thought it was going to be -- how she thought she'd be more in love with me.

Translation.

Suited guy in senior position probably earning twice her salary and knew how to fuck her turned her head.

Guy didn't have a chance but he could have put walls around the debt owed.

Post: #19

Haha, what a loser.

Post: #20

I can understand this guy's pain. Been there myself. His story is almost similar to mine. I would like to urge all of you to at least reach out and attempt to help out any man you know or see in a situation like this. Ignoring them, laughing at them, or mocking them won't cause them to take the red pill. Most bluepill beta men are resistant to harsh ridicule because they do not have thick skin from all this PC brainwashing. A solutions minded approach with a little positive reinforcement can go a long way toward the long path of recovery.

Post: #21

She got a job on Wallstreet - that was the writing on the wall.

Post: #22

Oh, cmon. This guy's life is fucked up as it is. I know we can all look back and say, "what a fucking idiot." But I think we've all been caught up like this, so it's a bit unfair to ridicule to guy.

Post: #23

(07-16-2014 06:33 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Red Pill would have saved the man.

A personal finance class would have saved the man.

There are a lot of "red pill" guys who make 100K and are in debt with shitty credit scores.

Post: #24

(07-16-2014 11:40 AM)Fortis Wrote:  Oh, cmon. This guy's life is fucked up as it is. I know we can all look back and say, "what a fucking idiot." But I think we've all been caught up like this, so it's a bit unfair to ridicule to guy.

I got caught in the same trap, not to the sum of $100 000 of debt, though. This guy really needed a personal finance class.

Post: #25

(07-16-2014 11:30 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  I can understand this guy's pain. Been there myself. His story is almost similar to mine. I would like to urge all of you to at least reach out and attempt to help out any man you know or see in a situation like this. Ignoring them, laughing at them, or mocking them won't cause them to take the red pill. Most bluepill beta men are resistant to harsh ridicule because they do not have thick skin from all this PC brainwashing. A solutions minded approach with a little positive reinforcement can go a long way toward the long path of recovery.

Problem is that it's men like this who are our most vehement enemies, attacking the red pill more than women. Only when they get burned can they begin to see the light.