Post: #1

I figured since many posters and lurkers here travel, live, work or are considering relocating to Thailand it would be beneficial to create a thread about the upcoming changes in Thailand’s visa laws.

Some background

The Military recently threw out the democratically elected government and has since been running the country as they please. Some of these changes are good like crackdowns on mafia run operations or requiring taxis to have meters in tourist areas like Phuket.

But as of August 12th 2014 the use of back to back tourist visas will no longer be permitted.

This means the days of living longterm in Thailand on Tourist visas will be over in less than a month.

After the visa changes happen if you arrive into Thailand by air you get a 30 day free permission to stay in the country (15 days free by land)you can then go to a nearby Thai embassy in a neighboring country for a 60 day visa which is extendable for another 30 days after those 60 days have expired.

But after that you need to have another type visa be it education, work, retirement etc and can no longer plan on getting continuous tourist visas to extend your time in the land of smiles.

Speaking as an English teacher here we are already having a coworker quit because of this new visa change. Those interested in teaching here should be aware that obtaining a work permit is not easy since you need to be both qualified (have a BA) and the school you work for needs to get you all of the necessary paperwork. This should be relatively simple to get done at government schools but much less likely at private language schools. Unfortunately in Thailand schools are very lax on this or outright incompetent so it is easy to find yourself working for a school that delays or doesn’t follow through with getting you a work permit in a timely matter. If they fail to do so you would be shit out of luck and have to leave Thailand as you would no longer be able to get another tourist visa to keep working since that option is no longer available.

This means there will likely be a large outflow of teachers here who lack a bachelor’s degree and work on tourist visas so in theory these new laws could make it easier for qualified teachers to find work.

As for those who make a living working online and are location independent living in Thailand I suspect their only option will be to arrange education visas to extend their time here as obtaining work permits in Thailand is difficult to get.

Ultimately it’s unclear what kind of impact this will have on the expat population in Thailand in the short term or how long these changes will last. To date the military has not given any indication of when they will relinquish power and allow for elections so it’s unclear what the future holds for Thailand and how long these visa changes will be in effect.

Post: #2

Good idea for a thread on this.

Given that Thailand changes their visa regulations so often, it would be nice to have a constantly updated thread on this, so we might as well use this one here.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #3

Some solutions:

- Get a second passport. Then as bacon said you get the free Tourist visa on arrival and the Tourist visa from the embassy which will give you 4 month per passport. After month 8 you should be able to repeat the process. Or you could loose your passport...

- Get an ED visa.
Get here on the Tourist visa on arrival and sign up at a language school for the whole year which can be booked as cheap as 16k Baht for 4 hours weekly for the whole year. After 3-4 weeks the school will provide you with the documents and then you need to go to an embassy in another county, where you will get the visa for 2000 Baht. You need to extend the visa every 3 month at the immigration in Bangkok. The downside is that they start checking your process at learning the language. You might get along for a while and if you are really learning, then this is a pretty safe way to stay here for another three years. Unfortunately these schools are not the best places to really learn the language. Also, as bacon said, the future is really unclear and if they will keep the direction then these schools are the next target.

You can also get an ED visa through your Muay Thai school, but only a few offer this service. There is one gym at Sukhumvit that asks for 32k Baht for the whole year. Training is limited to two times weekly. Good to stay in shape and learn the basics, but not the best bet if you are serious about the sport.

Certain cooking and massage schools can get you the visa as well.

- Bang the right girls. We are still in Thailand and it is enough to know the right people. Keep in mind that you have to stay good with the girl, who asked her dad to help with your visa. This could turn pretty bad...

- Bring enough cash. There is something like a VIP visa. I think it is half a million baht for an unlimited five year visa.

Post: #4

At least in Europe you can still get TR Visa with multiple entries

No guarantee they will let you back in to thailand though...

they already turned away some ppl at the border but those were all guys with multiple back-to-back TR visas

Post: #5

(07-19-2014 01:33 AM)bacon Wrote:  Ultimately it’s unclear what kind of impact this will have on the expat population in Thailand in the short term or how long these changes will last. To date the military has not given any indication of when they will relinquish power and allow for elections so it’s unclear what the future holds for Thailand and how long these visa changes will be in effect.

Same thing happened in Russia about 7 years ago. Easy visas were restricted to 90/180 days (same as the Schengen rules). Shortly thereafter there was a mass exodus of criminals and degenerates.

Expect most of the Pattaya crowd to disappear. The guys who are smarter, have no criminal record, are educated, connected, etc. will be much more likely to find a visa solution.

Post: #6

(07-19-2014 02:00 AM)libertad1312 Wrote:  sign up at a language school for the whole year which can be booked as cheap as 16k Baht for 4 hours weekly for the whole year.

Where's this? Cheapest I found was 23,000 and that's only if you sign up with a friend.

Post: #7

(07-19-2014 02:00 AM)libertad1312 Wrote:  Some solutions:

- Get a second passport. Then as bacon said you get the free Tourist visa on arrival and the Tourist visa from the embassy which will give you 4 month per passport. After month 8 you should be able to repeat the process. Or you could loose your passport...

- Get an ED visa.
Get here on the Tourist visa on arrival and sign up at a language school for the whole year which can be booked as cheap as 16k Baht for 4 hours weekly for the whole year. After 3-4 weeks the school will provide you with the documents and then you need to go to an embassy in another county, where you will get the visa for 2000 Baht. You need to extend the visa every 3 month at the immigration in Bangkok. The downside is that they start checking your process at learning the language. You might get along for a while and if you are really learning, then this is a pretty safe way to stay here for another three years. Unfortunately these schools are not the best places to really learn the language. Also, as bacon said, the future is really unclear and if they will keep the direction then these schools are the next target.

You can also get an ED visa through your Muay Thai school, but only a few offer this service. There is one gym at Sukhumvit that asks for 32k Baht for the whole year. Training is limited to two times weekly. Good to stay in shape and learn the basics, but not the best bet if you are serious about the sport.

Certain cooking and massage schools can get you the visa as well.

- Bang the right girls. We are still in Thailand and it is enough to know the right people. Keep in mind that you have to stay good with the girl, who asked her dad to help with your visa. This could turn pretty bad...

- Bring enough cash. There is something like a VIP visa. I think it is half a million baht for an unlimited five year visa.

How can they check the language progression? I've seen some schools offer spanish and hebrew classes.

Personally, I would hack the system by doing this:
Using my Mexican and US passport to get different visas and alternate.

Taking Spanish lessons in thai, I can start off as a dumbass and then "progress". In reality, I'm fluent in the language.

Post: #8

Well in Australia we can get a Double Entry Visa valid for 60 days still.

I think the hype is exaggerated slightly. They main people affected will be those without the finances or mobility to leave the country for 2 or 3 weeks at a time. This means lots of people working illegally there who are not in location independent positions.

Stay nimble boys, the dream is alive

Post: #9

Yeah I was also looking at studying Spanish in BKK. Only 7-800 dollars and that gets you a year and the legal right to do your banking in Thailand

Post: #10

(07-19-2014 04:24 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  Personally, I would hack the system by doing this:
Using my Mexican and US passport to get different visas and alternate.

Not sure how advanced Thailand is, but in Russia they check by name and birthdate to catch those with multiple passports.

Post: #11

(07-19-2014 04:43 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 04:24 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  Personally, I would hack the system by doing this:
Using my Mexican and US passport to get different visas and alternate.

Not sure how advanced Thailand is, but in Russia they check by name and birthdate to catch those with multiple passports.

Bummer

Kermit = Thailand/Russia
Bunny = me

Post: #12

(07-19-2014 04:55 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 04:43 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 04:24 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  Personally, I would hack the system by doing this:
Using my Mexican and US passport to get different visas and alternate.

Not sure how advanced Thailand is, but in Russia they check by name and birthdate to catch those with multiple passports.

Bummer

Kermit = Thailand/Russia
Bunny = me

You could change your name in one country but not the other. That will work as long as they don't introduce biometrics.

In general, having multiple citizenships is a good idea for an international person. I have three and am planning on my fourth in a couple of years. It still pays to be well aware of all the rules and catches though.

Post: #13

True words, DaveR. Actually this change is a bit annoying, but I can understand them as they will only get rid of all these people who are either unable to plan a bit in advance or cannot even bring up a few hundred bucks. Exactly these people that are holding cities like Pattaya big from developing from being a nice resort town and giving the whole country a dodgy reputation.

Would love to hear more about multiple citizenships.

Mrnormer, sure you can get the double entry visa still and there are no plans to stop this. But you wont be able to get them in an unlimited amount in the same passport anymore. I mean you still might get them, but this does not guarantee to be able to enter the country. A few days ago people with valid Tourist visas got refused at the Thai-Malaysian border for exact this reason.

They check the language briefly at the immigration when you get your extend every three month. They have a smalltalk in Thai or ask you to write your name. Studying another language that you already know should work as well.

Send you a PM with the name of the school Paul B.

Post: #14

(07-19-2014 05:19 AM)libertad1312 Wrote:  Would love to hear more about multiple citizenships.

Entire forums are dedicated to that topic alone. Basically, check out your ancestry to see if there are any easy routes to another citizenship. Apart from that, you usually have to live in the country for a certain period of time and speak the language. However, it does vary a lot and often being married (even if 'strategically') can help.

Apart from my first citizenship, which I was obviously born with...
- the second one came from my ancestry. All I had to do was collect some certificates and apply for it
- the third one required residency in the country for three years and knowledge of the language. It would have taken longer had I not entered into a 'strategic' marriage with my main girl (which is legal as long as you maintain the relationship, by the way).
- the fourth one will come from the same 'strategic' marriage. Doesn't require me to live in the country or speak the language. It's from an almost-third-world country and won't give me any travel benefits, but it never hurts to have another non-Western citizenship for banking and privacy reasons.

Post: #15

Unfortunately, these changes effect me quite a bit. I'm used to spending a quarter of my year in Thailand. Over the years i've accumulated a shitload of in/out Thai entry exempt and 2 month tourist visas in my passport too. The news i've been reading is that if you have a history of this then they have the right to refuse entry, period. Some seasonal visiters like oil workers apparently were denied because of this. I'm pretty much in the same boat as these guys with my income earned outside of Thailand so i'm not really eligible for another type of visa.

The Elite card visa is 500k baht (roughly $15k USD) so it's not really worth it unless you plan on staying in Thailand for 5 years straight.

I guess my option is to reduce my yearly time in Thailand to only 2 months but that's annoying since I like to spend the dive season (similans) down there.

Post: #16

So let me get this straight.

Thailand doesn't want rich westerners staying and spending money there? What's the rationale behind tightening tourist visas?

People will just go elsewhere. Seems like a dumb policy change to me.

Post: #17

they dont mind rich westerns who can afford the VIP visa

but they want all the people out who "abuse" TR visas and border runs to stay in Thailand longterm and who work illegally

Post: #18

(07-19-2014 08:23 AM)dreambig Wrote:  So let me get this straight.

Thailand doesn't want rich westerners staying and spending money there? What's the rationale behind tightening tourist visas?

People will just go elsewhere. Seems like a dumb policy change to me.

As with many things in Thailand the implementation is retarded and causes inconvenience to a lot of people who aren't doing illegal things too.

I'm flexible enough to just wait until after the official implementation date to see what happens. Chances are they will make some alterations so the immigration officials aren't just arbitrarily barring people.

Post: #19

(07-19-2014 07:59 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  I guess my option is to reduce my yearly time in Thailand to only 2 months but that's annoying since I like to spend the dive season (similans) down there.

The main target of the new rules are the visa runners who are staying years on Tourist visas, without ever returning to their home countries.

Example 1: double TR = 2*60 +2*30 Extension = Total 6 months

Then visa run to Laos, Cambo, Malaysia - return 2 days later with new double entry TR: This wont work anymore, especially if you have an even longer history in your passport.

Example 2: double TR = Total 6 months

then return to your homecountry ( EU/US/AUS) return to Thailand 1-2 months later with new double TR: My guess so far is you will likely be allowed to enter.

You demonstrated that you have the necessary funds to actually fly overseas ( this fact was quite important for thai Immigration over past years - their goal was always to filter out the cheap charlies who have no means to book expensive overseas flight tickets) and your actual stay in thailand got a break of a few weeks.

Also my recommendation: Dress properly, (Long pants with polo shirt instead of short pants, tank top and flip flops)clean shaven, hide your tattoes if possible, talk polite - this will definately help. Currently the application of rules seems still to be quite flexible so it is mostly up to the officer to let you in or not. Differentiate yourself from other loser types he rejected earlier und you ll be fine.

Post: #20

There are farangs who've outstayed their welcome for YEARS in Thailand. It's no big deal. The fine maxes out at 20,000 baht which is cheaper than doing border runs or playing by the rulebook. People forget that Thailand is a 3rd world country with a political system bordering on anarchy. The rule of law is very weak there and that's a good thing in my opinion.

If you insist on being legal, the ED visa is the best option however. There's a 3 year limit on studying one particular course, lets say Thai language. After that you can study Russian for 3 years or cooking, etc...

Post: #21

If one is interested in teaching English and or doing location independent work in Thailand, wouldn't the best course of action be to get a student visa?

Obtaining work permits for any country as a foreigner is a pain, but most people hack the system by getting that student visa while in their native countries, extending aforementioned visa while in another country, etc etc.
There is something to be said about learning new academic material while overseas anyways.

Post: #22

Personally, the lack of proper visa's for self employed people and particularly residency permits puts me off the idea of living in Thailand long term or even making an effort to build something. I might be thin skinned, but after a while I would have liked to be able to feel like I could actually be a part of the country I live in and you can't do that in Thailand.

I'd look into getting a B type investment seeking visa in your own country. Get an invitation from a real estate agency and say you want to invest in condos. Should be possible. Otherwise there is still the ED visas, but crackdowns on those will likely be next.

Post: #23

Am I the only one on the forum with a Thai work permit? (Bacon?)

Genuinely curious, not trying to start anything or parade it.

I really do feel for fellow RVF members who will now have a lot of visa-hassle and expenses.

If you're in Thailand, I'd give the man from http://www.thaivisarun.com/ a ring, he REALLY knows what he's talking about. He knows how to keep you in the country for 'medical' reasons if it really comes to it. So I would recommend ringing him if you're in Thailand and you need clarification.

In terms of TEFL, 95% of schools stick you on the Non-B immigrant visa and keep putting off the application for a legitimate work permit. If the visa changes affect the Non-B (already a grey area for TEFL teachers) then Thailand's TEFL industry is going to be fucked (well, it's crap already to be fair).

It's usually only the big corporate chains that will get you a legal work permit and adhere to the high taxes that come with going by the book. So it's gonna be interesting to see how this plays out.

I can see them 'relaxing' these harsh visa rules in a few months. But they'll probably do it in a highly confusing way that saves face.

Post: #24

Leighton

I got a work permit but the school I work out which is government was so lax and incompetent that they didnt have my paperwork ready so I had to pa a couple.thousand bhat for 7 day extension on my non B. They reimbursed me the money but it was characteristic of how inefficient Thailand can be.

Post: #25

(07-19-2014 01:33 AM)bacon Wrote:  But as of August 12th 2014 the use of back to back tourist visas will no longer be permitted.

This means the days of living longterm in Thailand on Tourist visas will be over in less than a month.

After the visa changes happen if you arrive into Thailand by air you get a 30 day free permission to stay in the country (15 days free by land)you can then go to a nearby Thai embassy in a neighboring country for a 60 day visa which is extendable for another 30 days after those 60 days have expired.

But after that you need to have another type visa be it education, work, retirement etc and can no longer plan on getting continuous tourist visas to extend your time in the land of smiles.

I was following a couple threads over at Thaivisa.com when the announcement first came out.

Quite a few of the senior members on Thaivisa thought that the new regulations were only a crackdown on those who abuse tourist stamps (30 days upon entry by air) by taking a flight to KL or a bus to Siem Riep to get in a few more weeks of vacation or whatever.

That is, a lot of people thought that things would be the same for a Westerner who plans ahead and applies for a double or trip-entry visa at the Thai embassy in their home country. When you think about it -- a triple-entry tourist visa is one visa: One visa that can be extended twice.

Well, that doesn't seem to be the consensus anymore.

That aside, as OP pointed out, anyone with prerequisite education and a little determination can still TEFL Thailand. I doubt any shortage in teachers will cause TEFL wages to appreciate but it could make finding a decent position easier as more vacancies appear.

As for anyone in a short-term bind...consider the medical visa extension. You might be able to get some kind of elective treatment (back hair?) and hit the doctor up for a letter stating that you won't be fit to fly for a few weeks. PM or contact the business from Leighton's post.

Good luck!