Post: #1

Just got back from Abu Simbel, Valley of the Kings and the Luxor temples. Better than the Giza pyramids in some ways, although the size of the pyramids is its own experience.

Very impressive, as is all of ancient Egypt. Was there ever a civilization that was so static over such a long time? The same stuff, the same designs, the same religion for about 3000 years.

Ra, Hathor, Horus, etc. The last temples and priests died, converted or were killed off around 500 AD.

I had a pretty good guide. Luxor (Thebes) is where the Tuthmosis family hung out and was buried.

The story of the family is interesting. Tuthmosis I was a pretty straight guy from what I heard.

The rules were that only the sons for the primary wife succeeded to the throne.

When Tuth I died, he only had a daughter from his primary wife, Hatchepsut. He had a son from a secondary wife.

In order for the son to become king, he took another legal way to become pharaoh - he married the king's daughter from the primary wife - Hatchepsut. In other words, his half sister. So he became Tuthmosis II.

Tuthmosis II died pretty quickly, leaving a daughter with his half-sister and a son through a second wife.

Hatchepsut claimed the throne. The throne was reserved for males, so she and her priest friends cooked up a story that she was really the daughter of Ra, who will that she become pharaoh.

She portrayed herself dressed in male drag in her statues with a fake beard.



I don't know if she dressed like a man in everyday business, Wikipedia says probably not and this is what she really looked like:



She is credited at being a successful pharaoh, sent an expedition to Somalia (Punt) and got back a lot of loot.

Her nephew, the son of Tuthmosis II was apparently pissed off at her.

He was the son of the second wife, too, so when Hatchepsut died, he cooked up the same story about being the son of Ra and took the throne as Tuthmosis III.

He or his son Amenhotep II tried to erase all images of Hatchepsut after her death. Some statues have been reassembled from pieces.

Tuthmosis III was a very successful pharaoh, maybe the most successful one. He went on a rampage of conquests through Syria and Nubia and expanded Egypt to its largest size.

What happened to Hatchepsut's daughter? The strange thing is that she might have married her half-brother/cousin Tuthmosis III and had a son, Amenemhat, who died before Tuthmosis III did.

Shows that a stable conservative society need not follow our ideas of conventional morality. Like with the Greeks and their boy-bum blasting and the Romans with Caligula-type excess.

Post: #2

What happened after Tuthmosis III increased Egypt to its largest size?

Wald

Post: #3

(07-22-2014 11:46 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  What happened after Tuthmosis III increased Egypt to its largest size?

Wald

Things were stable and the boundaries seem to have been maintained at least until Akhenaten took the throne about 80 years later and tried to change to a monotheistic religion, which led to his having to leave Thebes and the famous King Tutankhamen taking the throne after some chaos. King Tutankhamen died 99 years after Tuthmosis III.

After that, the 18th Dynasty ended and Egypt's power was eventually restored under Ramses II, who died about 110 years after King Tutankhamen. But about 100 years after that, things went to shit again.

Eventually they were conquered by the Persians 525-404 BC, then rebelled and were re-conquered.

Alexander came in about 332 BC - I saw reliefs of him depicted in pharaonic dress with Ra at Luxor temple. The guide said when he came to Egypt, he took advantage of the religion to make himself pharaoh.

Of course that was only 1100 years after Tuthmosis III. Year after year, same art and building style, same gods, same dress.

Post: #4

Good stuff, Sp5. I've been to those places and they are duly impressive. I thought Abu Simbel was more inspiring/awesome than the pyramids.

How's the environment in Egypt? Security problems? Rioting? Or is that just CNN BS.

Post: #5

@Sp5:

What are conditions in Egypt like now? I was there in the 1990s and would like to hear how things are now, with all this turbulence lately.

I'd like to know more about the tourist situation, general level of disorganization, prices, deals, things like that.

Post: #6

I've been here for three months now, no problems at all. People spontaneously welcome me on the street, no hassles outside the usual touts at the tourist areas. I live in an apartment in a middle class residential area, like my street, know the shopkeepers and pushcart fruit and veg vendors, etc.

I saw one demonstration in my neighborhood on the anniversary of the military coup. There are platoons of internal security police stationed around the city, especially on Fridays and Saturdays. The Egyptian Museum at Tahrir Square has a company of M-113 armored personnel carriers in front - with the turrets with M-2 .50 cal constantly manned. Guys sitting in parked vehicles all day. There are demonstrations / disturbances most Friday afternoons around the University and other places. Bombs have gone off maybe once every two weeks, but nothing I've been near.

I find the place reasonably well organized. The Metro is outstanding. Taxis are cheap. Restaurants offer more value for money than any place I've been except Thailand. I mean good cooking for a low price, like a decent steak dinner with fresh steamed vegetables for $11. Plenty of fresh fruit juice stores, pint of fresh squeezed carrot juice for 80 cents.

Of course a huge gap between rich and poor. The lengths people go to to earn a living amaze me, like the old lady sitting out on the sidewalk from 7 am to 7pm selling lettuce. When I buy from her she wants to sell me enough for a rabbit farm, I get four heads of romaine for like $2.90

Down in Luxor and Aswan it was OK, the tourist business is hurting so there is an air of desperation among these junk souvenir vendors and the horse-cart drivers and the like. You just have to give them the "La, shukran" and keep going.

Hotel prices are very low, value for money there too.

Post: #7

^Excellent info as always Sp5. I have always wanted to visit the valley of kings and the pyramids.
Egypt has had such a bad reputation lately so it's great to see it's not all that bad.

Sometimes I see very cheap flights to Hurghada and Sharm el Sheik.
Egypt will definitely be on my trip list in the near future.
Would be a good 2 weeks winter getaway destination.

Post: #8

One caveat: I am a little concerned about the authoritarian crackdown and arbitrary detentions, like with the farce of the Al Jazeera trial and lock up of their journalists on nonsensical evidence, basically used as pawns against Qatar. The official media has a little of an anti-American tinge to it, like portraying ISIS and the Muslim Brotherhood as puppets of the USA, so I keep a low profile as much as I can.

I plan to hit Hurghada or Sharm later in the year when it gets cold in Russia try that out.

I don't think there's another place in the world where you can stay in a Hilton or Sheraton for less than $100 on a consistent basis.

Post: #9

That museum in Cairo is the greatest in the world, I've visited many but what I saw there was astounding, that was the earth's history in one place. Of course Alexandria once had a library that was all of earth's history in one place. However I visited around 12 years ago when there was relative peace there so I'm not sure how the museum was affected by the Arab Spring.

I always thought Rameses II was the pharaoh who extended Egypt to it's greatest extent. Guy lived a peculiarly long life too.

Akhenaten is one of the Ancient Alien theorists guilty pleasures.

Tip for a trip to the Pyramids if you don't want to stay in Egypt, I did a trip from Cyprus, you spend a night at sea, day in Egypt visiting Cairo and Giza, then a night at sea back in Limassol. Total cost was around £200

Post: #10

I was in Gaza, Luxor and the Valley of the Kings in 2000. Very impressive stuff, some really stuff from a cultural standpoint.

I stayed in Hurghada at the time and while the resort itself was excellent there was locals everywhere cockblocking you the second you were talking to some girl (non-local, never really saw an Egyptian woman). They'd try to mask it as if providing some service while interrupting you but it got pretty transparent fast. Definitely one of the nationalities in the world I have the least sympathy for.

Post: #11

Personally, I think the Luxor had it's heyday more than 10 years ago. I don't even know how they can afford to keep the lights on anymore.

Post: #12

(07-22-2014 12:30 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 11:46 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  What happened after Tuthmosis III increased Egypt to its largest size?

Wald

Things were stable and the boundaries seem to have been maintained at least until Akhenaten took the throne about 80 years later and tried to change to a monotheistic religion, which led to his having to leave Thebes and the famous King Tutankhamen taking the throne after some chaos. King Tutankhamen died 99 years after Tuthmosis III.

After that, the 18th Dynasty ended and Egypt's power was eventually restored under Ramses II, who died about 110 years after King Tutankhamen. But about 100 years after that, things went to shit again.

Eventually they were conquered by the Persians 525-404 BC, then rebelled and were re-conquered.

Alexander came in about 332 BC - I saw reliefs of him depicted in pharaonic dress with Ra at Luxor temple. The guide said when he came to Egypt, he took advantage of the religion to make himself pharaoh.

Of course that was only 1100 years after Tuthmosis III. Year after year, same art and building style, same gods, same dress.

Cleopatra VII was a queen of Egypt but she wasn't even Egyptian. 300 years before the birth of Cleopatra, Alexander The Great had conquered the known world and by the time he died at the age of 33 was considered a living god and a mythical figure. Upon the death of Alexander his cousin PTOLEMY I SOTER also a general in his army absconded with the “god’s” corpse from the funeral procession making its way back to Macedonia. Ptolemy, instead diverted the god king’s body back to the city in Egypt Alexander had founded and named after himself. In Alexandria he built a tomb, put the dead god Alexander’s body on display in a sarcophagus made of gold and leveraged his dead cousin’s “divine providence” to install himself as ruler of the land his Macedonian army had conquered just a few years before. Twelve generations of “ordained” Ptolemys, Macedonian Greeks would follow before Cleopatra was born and ruled around 89 BC

By the first century BC the mutually beneficial trade relationship with the”Italian barbarians” to the north had become a perpetual source of tension and very real concern for the Egyptian people and their leadership. And rightly so. Less than a decade after Cleopatra’s demise the Roman Empire annexed Egypt, imposed Roman law, ended the rule of the Pharoah’s and essentially extinguished a civilization and way of life that had stood for more than three thousand years.

Leave it to a woman to fuck up what men had created and maintained for 3000 years