Post: #1

I have notice that whenever I bump into someone or almost do (mostly at work--I work in a store), I quickly say sorry. I have tried several times to get myself to say "excuse me" instead, but I have been so focused on ensuring customers arent butthurt that I end up being deferential. Sorry is a submissive word. Excuse me is more neutral and pleasant. A few days ago, I bumped into someone and said sorry and then cursed myself and repeatedly said Excuse me for a moment to try to remind myself.

It may seem a bit mundane, but its all about how you carry yourself around. Theres no need to be submissive and apologize for an accident. Furthermore, it dilutes the actual times you really do need to say sorry for something (a major screw up, where someone is furious at you). If you are apologizing all the time, they will notice, and the real ones will seem fake.

Has anyone else experienced this trying to rewire what you say naturally, whether its this or something else? There are a lot of words and ways to say things that can be upsetting or grating. Another example is but. Ive tried to eliminate that for two reasons: it either sounds whiny, or it sounds abrupt. Especially when talking to managers, saying however and and are much more pleasant and flowing ways to alter the direction of what you are saying.

"I moved all the stuff, but I didnt get to set it up." — Its a sharp pause that can jerk someone subconsciously.
"I moved all the stuff, however I didnt get to set it up." — much smoother

There is also "no" vs. "not yet". Whenever a manager or someone asks if I did something and they expect me to say yes, I just say not yet, which implies it will be done, is much smoother, and doesnt pack the punch of NO.

Post: #2

I don't think the word "Sorry" should ever cross a man's lips unless you're extending someone condolences on a death in their family. But certainly never as an apology. You should never apologize to a woman for anything (despite what they insist, it's never, ever what they want to hear), and if you fuck up at work, your boss doesn't want to hear an apology. He just wants you to take responsibility for the mistake and make sure it doesn't happen again. If you fuck up something with your buddies, sorry is pointless as well. Just tell them it was your mistake and try to fix the problem.

The word sorry is meaningless except as a submissive, placating gesture. If you genuinely feel bad about something and feel the need to apologize to someone, simply say, "I apologize" or "My apologies" instead of "Sorry." Even better is to simply say, "That was regrettable," or something along those lines.

It's simply a fact that the act of apologizing is intrinsically low-status and submissive. It's something that should be avoided as much as possible if you're trying to achieve and maintain a dominant social frame. An alpha male rarely apologizes because he has no need to placate others even if they are upset about something. If he was apologizing for his actions frequently he wouldn't be an alpha male, because by definition an alpha male acts unapologetically and does not make submissive social gestures to others.

Post: #3

I've completely eliminated "sorry" from my vocabulary.


There are other words I either use or over emphasize for specific reasons. An over emphasis of 'YES' will often prevent further discussion with someone who would have otherwise countered with a "ya but". It simply ends the discussion more quickly.

I also refer to lots of guys as "bud" or "buddy". And I'll often give a pat on the shoulder/side of the arm.


These are things I was doing to establish my "dominance" in the workplace. I took a manufacturing job knowing I would be advancing quickly. I had to make sure that folks knew I was someone that they answered to even before they were required to answer to me.

I turned in my acceptance letter this past Thursday.

Post: #4

"If you say sorry you'll be sorry, and there ain't nothing worse than a sorry ass man". My mom said this to me when I was nine or ten. I say excuse me, or pardon me.

Post: #5

(08-30-2014 02:47 PM)vinman Wrote:  "If you say sorry you'll be sorry, and there ain't nothing worse than a sorry ass man". My mom said this to me when I was nine or ten. I say excuse me, or pardon me.

I say pardon me exclusively.


And this only when absolutely necessary.

Post: #6

"Sorry" is a word that has been rendered meaningless by abuse, the sarcasm epidemic, and passive-aggressiveness.

Think of every "snarky" bitch who says stuff like, "Sorry I'm not a Size 0 model." She not actually apologizing for being a repulsive fat-ass.

I very rarely apologize, but I also very rarely use this word to do so for this reason.

Post: #7

I use "pardon me" and "excuse me" exclusively.

I was once in a club in Manhattan and accidentally stepped on an Indian guy's shoes. After intoning "pardon me" he stepped forward and said "What the fuck did you just say?" At the point his friends got up from their leaning positions and puffed out their chests. I responded somewhat louder with "I said 'pardon me'!"

The guy said "Oh" and the look of rage vanished from his face and he turned back to his friends. It was a very surreal and humorous experience.

Post: #8

Acceptable Alpha "excuses":

"Errors have been made." (Actually used that one often coupled with a smirk.)

"Hmpfrrr." Something between a grunt and a sigh.

"You make me wanna be a better man." Jack Nicholson style after much sweating and puffing. That's a compliment coupled with a re-framing that actually concerns yourself.

Also "Pardon me" or "Ufta" in the US works fine for minor things like bumping into someone.

And I agree with @Scorpion that women do not want to hear you saying sorry. Even if it is something major that you wish to change in life yourself - better work on it silently and make it happen. That way you manifest the reality instead of uttering excuses which are going to be seen as weakness by the female mind anyway.

Post: #9

Try being Canadian. Sorry is every second word here... I've mostly eliminated it from my vocabulary. I find it amusing when I get in someones way and they say sorry to me, especially at the gym. Usually guys that are twice the size of me.

Post: #10

I have been trying to eliminate it, but it keeps happening. I will have to keep trying. At least I know Im on the right track in the right direction. I still have slipups sometimes with managers, like excusemaking when one became upset with my taking too long to move some stuff around. The worst part was there was another female coworker overhearing my excusemaking. I think part of it is that I am not used to thinking on my feet and snapping something out. This is my first real job and I guess I havent had enough socialization prior to that. Im much better than when I started, however.

@rdvirus, haha I was just thinking this must be impossible for Canadians.

Post: #11

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Post: #12

I have this fantasy of getting pressured to make a public apology for something I said. I step up to the podium, seeing all the stern faces staring at me. I say "Many people have felt that what I said was inappropriate. I just want to say sincerely, that...I'm at peace with that. Thank you."

Evil maniacal laugh or false humility is a stylistic choice at this point. Oh man, can't wait for the day.

Post: #13

Fear of reprisal and possibility of a violent physical confrontation.

Social ostracisation and exclusion.

People think these things will probably happen to them if they ever forget to say ''sorry'' once in their lives, in a everyday, very insignificant situation(like accidentally bumping into someone(who was deeply distracted by his/her iphone and social media anyway), or forgetting to text some girl, etc)

In reality people will be surprised at first glance, that you are not readily offering ''sincere apologies'', but they will just shrug it off and continue to live their lives. A few will get pissed and shout insults, but that's it.

Our peers, in this modern era dominated by endless distractions and excessive use of iphone/social media, etc, have the attention span of a gnat. Information overload is prevalent in 2014.

They won't even remember that you even existed.

Post: #14

"Overanalizing" is the word that comes to my mind.

Post: #15

(08-31-2014 02:00 AM)germanico Wrote:  "Overanalizing" is the word that comes to my mind.

I don't think the OP's problem is having too much anal sex

Post: #16

I'll happily say sorry if I walk in to somebody and it was my fault, or step on someone's shoes, etc. I really don't care if that makes me deferential in some people's eyes. I won't however, apologise when I am in the right, or where doing so would mean compromising my beliefs.

Post: #17

(08-31-2014 04:24 AM)Kieran Wrote:  I'll happily say sorry if I walk in to somebody and it was my fault, or step on someone's shoes, etc. I really don't care if that makes me deferential in some people's eyes. I won't however, apologise when I am in the right, or where doing so would mean compromising my beliefs.

Yeah me too.

You know how you will often get gangs of scrawny little wanna be 16-21 year old gangsters hanging about right outside shops and stuff, basically just getting in the way, with most people feeling intimidated and taking long routes around them etc?

I have got it in my head that it's some sort of power challenge thing and started to get extreme pleasure as I get older from just standing in front of them, staring at the obvious ring leader and saying "excuse me lads" in a loud, deep rumble until they inevitably part like the Red Sea.

God knows what's wrong with me; grumpy old man syndrome trying to teach the "yoot" some manners or something.

One day I'm gonna get shot!

Post: #18

Excuse me lads is brilliant here in the UK. The way it's said and the effect it has, it belittles those faggots, they understand that but the politeness of it means they have no retort that they can turn to whether it's physical or spoken.

Post: #19

(08-31-2014 07:08 AM)bojangles Wrote:  Excuse me lads is brilliant here in the UK. The way it's said and the effect it has, it belittles those faggots, they understand that but the politeness of it means they have no retort that they can turn to whether it's physical or spoken.

I do it in bars and clubs too…dragging a woman behind you through the middle of another group, or into a spot at the bar, as you say it and do it is the ultimate show of male dominance for the chick.

Don't get me wrong, I'm never aggressive…just firm.

Taking people's space or moving them about is an underrated dominance move especially if there's no overt aggression at play.

For instance, if there are a couple of lads getting too cocky at kickboxing I will just ask them to move to another part of the training hall as I "need their space". I am the trainer so they just do as they're told. You see them shrink back into compliance and better behaviour instantly…like that Vinnie Jones scene in Snatch in the pub with the guys with the fake gun.

A lot of instructors deal with these kinda guys by trying to physically show them they're stronger/harder or whatever, with mixed results. It's completely unnecessary when a non aggressive display of power will calm them right down.

Body language is fascinating.

Post: #20

I've been trying to expunge 'sorry' from my vocabulary recently, too.

Sorry if I've just repeated what's already been said here.


...

Shit...

Post: #21

I think people are over focusing on saying sorry. If you're a decent guy that genuinely wants to say sorry without FEELING submissive or ACTING submissive, then I would say go ahead.

By the same token, if you want to use other words to show your courtesy, also go ahead. Point is you're being courteous and that's not the same as being submissive. I've met many cool people using it as an opener.

And be careful about eliminating words out of your vocabulary because people say a certain word is not masculine. You're masculine. What you say should sound masculine no matter what it is as should the congruency of that to your body language.

I can see myself bumping into a girl and saying "I'm soo sorry I bumped into you ... Blah blah.. But am I really...." With a smirk on my face as I walk closer to her.

Body language, vibe, delivery and feeling are so much more important than what you say as I'm still learning.

Post: #22

(08-30-2014 09:41 PM)RawGod Wrote:  I have this fantasy of getting pressured to make a public apology for something I said. I step up to the podium, seeing all the stern faces staring at me. I say "Many people have felt that what I said was inappropriate. I just want to say sincerely, that...I'm at peace with that. Thank you."

Evil maniacal laugh or false humility is a stylistic choice at this point. Oh man, can't wait for the day.

If only a politician would do this.

I would respect them so much more, even if they'd insulted me directly.

Post: #23

(08-31-2014 01:53 PM)Cobra Wrote:  I think people are over focusing on saying sorry. If you're a decent guy that genuinely wants to say sorry without FEELING submissive or ACTING submissive, then I would say go ahead.

By the same token, if you want to use other words to show your courtesy, also go ahead. Point is you're being courteous and that's not the same as being submissive. I've met many cool people using it as an opener.
...
Body language, vibe, delivery and feeling are so much more important than what you say as I'm still learning.

I get what you're saying, but for me, 'sorry' is a beige word. Like Tuth pointed out, it's been rendered meaningless. You have access to words and expressions that mean so much more.

"Pardon me", when delivered right, is still as polite as you like but because it's not used as much in conversation, it has more impact. It suggests you have a high standard of good manners.

Post: #24

(08-30-2014 02:14 PM)zaqan Wrote:  I have notice that whenever I bump into someone or almost do (mostly at work--I work in a store), I quickly say sorry. I have tried several times to get myself to say "excuse me" instead, but I have been so focused on ensuring customers arent butthurt that I end up being deferential. Sorry is a submissive word. Excuse me is more neutral and pleasant. A few days ago, I bumped into someone and said sorry and then cursed myself and repeatedly said Excuse me for a moment to try to remind myself.

I've noticed that customers are far worse when you say "sorry" rather than almost any other word. The behavior after that word gets mentioned borders on something you see during Shark Week.

I also think some of the behavior I've seen in relation to that word is exactly because it signifies lower status, with all that implies.

I agree with the posters above, better to cut almost all uses of that word out of our vocabulary.

Post: #25

(08-30-2014 03:58 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Acceptable Alpha "excuses":

"Errors have been made." (Actually used that one often coupled with a smirk.)

Lolfr

May as well just break out a roll of Mentos