Post: #1

Are there any other Engineers on this board? I'm a Mechanical Engineer/BSME with 7 years of experience in the medical devices field.

What do you guys think of engineering? Is it a good field? Do you like your job? I personally find maybe 50% of what I do in my job satisfying, I'm passionate about the 3D/CAD design (SolidWorks, etc) and product development. I loathe the dry paperwork, meetings, and corporate games that comprise the other half of my daily routine though. I'm hoping to get into a job where I can do more pure design work or maybe start my own freelance CAD design biz on the side. I've already done a few custom drawing jobs for a few friends.

Other problems I have with engineering:

1) Nearly all ME/tech jobs are located out in far-flung suburbs. I'd love to live in or closer to a vibrant city area, but if, for example, you're an engineer in the NY metro, you're not actually working in the boroughs, you're stuck in some mind-numbing industrial park out in New Jersey (no offense, Jersey boys), removed from the hot women and sophisticated nightlife of the city. It's a bit of a logistics issue and living in a cookie-cutter suburban house is not quite the lifestyle I long for.

2) Engineers aren't really paid all that well considering the rigorous amount of education we had to go through. Mechanical, Electrical, Biomedical, Software Engineering, etc are consistently ranked amongst the most difficult/time-consuming undergraduate disciplines, yet most engineering salaries top out at 100-110k. Not bad, but I could have gotten a business degree with much less stress and be banking even more with higher bonuses and working in a cool office building in the city center.

3) Women seem to be sexually turned off by engineers, and I've always felt like society in general seems to be oblivious to or disrespectful of us. I used to tell people that I was a musician (my biggest hobby outside of work) because I hated all the negative connotations that are associated with engineers (dorky, un-hip, un-fashionable, awkward, etc). People are often shocked when they find out that I'm into edgy rock music, dance clubs, foreign travel, etc. Some women find my career intriguing, but I notice many women also categorize me as beta/provider material when I show them the engineering card. I hate it. Have you guys experienced this?

4) Engineering companies seem to be racing to the bottom. Everyone keeps harping about how engineering is the future, and there will always be a need for engineers, but it's also true that engineering firms are all about making products cheaper, not better, nowdays. Efficiency trumps innovation. Many engineering/manufacturing jobs have also been outsourced; aerospace, automotive, and industrial machinery have been decimated by outsourcing and I worry that the medical field may be next.


If I could live/work in a nicer area and just do the specific, creative aspects of engineering that I enjoy minus the corporate games and living in isolated suburbs, I'd be happier with my gig as an engineer.

Anyways, I'm rambling here. Anyone else have any thoughts, comments??

Post: #2

You are describing all the real reasons not to become an engineer. Lifestyle-wise being an engineer in general is a minus in every time frame of your engineering career. In high school, university and in the job are often no women or there is no female social circle worth to gain and or interact with. Beta provider phase is excluded, you can gain a +1 to your overall provider status.
My condolences to the idiots who are in it for the money, you have been told lies and will do a job you will most likely hate with passion ^^ (more than any real engineer who usually hates the silly corporate games the OP described).

For any aspiring engineers out there: Learn game and prepare to have a mediocre love life due to serious time constraints. Your best fuck in the ass will most likely be delivered by your professors to you in the form of the next exam.

1 Look for a site in a city where you can live downtown and commute in reasonable time to work.
2 Your asian/indian/second world colleague probably costs half the money you earn and you will have to compete with him, even when he is on the other side of the globe. CAD and the internet made this possible.
3 Have at least one cool hobby to compensate for the "boring" job.

Post: #3

Alright OP,

Many masters programs are accelerated programs meaning you can get your Masters within 1 year after finishing your bachelor program. Some programs include a study abroad experience for two semesters. I feel like in terms of amount of schooling vs pay coming out of college, engineers are up there near the top. 65k-70k is pretty damn good for a kid who is 23-24 years old. While it may cap off at about 110k I can't think of an easier job. I work 40 hours a week, get health benefits, paid hourly wage and not a fixed salary, I get a bonus, and its secure as shit. In addition to what I listed you have some great flexibility when finding work. Anyways the end result shouldn't be becoming a manager but to get into the consulting field. That is where the money is made.

It's not the clothes who make the man its the man who makes the clothes. If you act like what society pictures as a typical engineer then yes you won't be getting same day lays and girls will be seeing you as beta husband material. Adjust your life accordingly and you will have success in whatever you do.

Cant argue with most work being out in the burbs and away from cities. It is what it is I guess but at least the cost of living is cheaper.

Post: #4

Yeah it sucks industry jobs seem to always be out in the country or the burbs. You chose a good major/field though. I have and industrial engineering degree and none of the jobs.

After frantically reading the oil threads though it looks like there is some money to be made in the oil industry, and from asking around most engineering degrees are sufficient to break into a good spot once you have some rig experience. This is what I'm gonna do.

MechE should be great for that.

Post: #5

Petroleum engineering Pays well. Yet is going to be oversaturated soon (Hell already is. Finding an internship is hell). Though the whole industry is focused in Houston and it can be a very cool place to be.

I have to agree though. A lot of the engineerings max out at 100k and you work your ass off. Often in places that are not that fun. Looking back spending 5 years starting a business may have been a much better alternative.

I study engineering and go out and pickup girls all the time(though I spent about 3 years learning game). All I really correlate it to is I'm really smart. It really doesn't matter if you can go into a club and still have game.

You can try getting a high end sales job. They pay fairly well once you get good at sales (100k+).

Post: #6

Studying petroleum engineering at the moment.

I'm looking to moving into oil and gas sales in houston. Nightlife + good cash makes me happy.

Post: #7

Yeah, engineering has been a serious road block to having a more vibrant social life. Job security is decent, pay is good, although my current job's health benefits are crap. I'm planning to update my resume and look for something better soon. I agree the management positions are undesireable. The work is boring, plus middle managers are the biggest tools in the machine. I want to continue to do CAD design, testing, product management/development, only at higher levels and ideally with more mobility (extended business travel or working remote, so I can get out and travel more). My job sends me to Toronto once in a while and that's it. Yes, freelance or consulting is the way. This is my second job, I'm soaking up as much knowledge as I can.

The suburbs are quite a drag, indeed. I live 35-45 minutes from the city center, I go downtown 3-4 days a week to meet friends and do stuff.

I took some Spanish classes back in my university days and took 2 short-term trips to Spain. Thought about doing a minor or double major, but just wanted to get out of school asap after stomaching the ME cirriculum. I look back and see that as a mistake; that's where I could have done some damage. I should have stuck around for a minor/major and done a long-term study abroad to Spain or Latin America. That could have seriously changed the trajectory of my 20s. I'm over 30 now, don't think I could just quit my job to become a broke student again and part-time/night-school programs would leave no time to Game or anything else. Sometimes I've thought about pulling a Roosh and just quitting my job and scouring through LA for 6 months or so, get some bangs and find a nice, cute girlfriend. My Spanish is passable, and I've been brushing up a bit lately. Sounds better than being stuck in the burbs and having to date online nerds, quintessential 5s, ex-carouselers looking for a hubby, and the like.

Post: #8

To those engineers that are unhappy: I think you are underselling yourselves.

You took extremely difficult classes that a lot of other people are incable of doing. How can you leverage that? What other skills can you pick up that will better round you out and let you launch your own business or advance in a way more suitable to what you desire? Can you market yourself?

Post: #9

(10-14-2014 12:52 AM)philosophical_recovery Wrote:  To those engineers that are unhappy: I think you are underselling yourselves.

You took extremely difficult classes that a lot of other people are incable of doing. How can you leverage that? What other skills can you pick up that will better round you out and let you launch your own business or advance in a way more suitable to what you desire? Can you market yourself?

If I had studied engineering, it'd be consulting or bust. Then I'd either make partner or (more likely) burnout and day trade all the money I had banked. Obviously somewhere in Thailand or Colombia.

Post: #10

I don't get it, you guys who are in the field breaking your backs. I got into engineering by the "train hard, fight easy" principle. Endured tough college years in ordered to coast in worklife. I barely put in 20h of active work a week. The rest of the time in the office I spend bettering myself by reading, trading or just chilling. Get a couple of paid trips for it every year as well.

It's not like anyone can tell me what to do, most can't understand an iota of it. Course you're going to have to game your workplace but that's true for any profession.

Don't think that by getting into finance you'll all of a sudden be living a glamorous lifestyle from a corner office in a downtown highrise. Without game you'll be like the vast majority in that niche as well - overworked saps rotting away in a cubicle.

Worried about the engineering "tag" being bad for game? Only if you let it be.

Post: #11

Basially OP your entire post is bang on the money. The risk return profile of Engineering is fucking horrendous. The stress and work load versus the payoff can be truly masochist. I don't think most kids really research this stuff before they go into it though. Reality hits them a few years into their work careers when they say 'Ohhhh Shitttt'.
- Precursor work: study complicated crap for 4 years in an environment of 5% women and <1% attractive women. This compounds on top of the fact that many introvert or socially weak types gravitate into Engineering because of the intellectual attraction. If you want to find most of the 23yo virgins on a campus, go to the School of Engineering.
- Job you get for this: fixed mediocre salary, where the best reward you might get is 'this week isn't quite as stressful as usual' or 'not full workload this week'. Mostly staring at a computer screen for 8+ hrs, under stressful deadlines, and with the computer fighting you every step of the way. Maybe if you hustle enough, you might weasel your way into a promotion, if any are available, to add a few K onto your salary and get different kinds of stress.

Fucking horrible really. Show that to a freshman and he'll shit his pants and become a plumber.

Unfortunately I haven't met many professionals anywhere who say 'yep, this profession is the bomb'. They all complain.
So far the only men I've seen who I was actually impressed by their position, and thought 'yeah this guy is winning', were 40+ specialists who had been reasonably proactive and had their own companies (or 'clinics' in the case of medical professionals).

In the case of Engineering, the following are positions I have observed, where the men are not getting fucked in the ass by their lives, due to 'high stress no reward':
- Those who specialized into something using a higher-degree, but who had researched the value very early. Note: none of these men will stay in Australia, they will leave immediately. Examples: a guy who did chem.eng and then specialized it with a Phd on fuel cells (he had planned this from the beginning), landed a good gig overseas.
- Those who specialized by adding another degree. I met one guy (about 50 but he looked 32) who stopped working in Engineering within a few years of starting, got a Law degree, and went into the patent law business. He became a partner in a firm, was doing about 400k, and then started his own firm with a partner, a combined Japan-US patent law firm. Again, he had researched the demand somewhat. Dude didn't look stressed out whatsoever.
- Guys who 'went out to the shit'. Tar sands guys, mining town guys. The difference here is that the work may be shit, but it is financially rewarding. It is OK to have a shit life if you are being compensated with bulk cash, since that life is temporary. My mate who worked out at a mine said his boss had a specific plan, along the lines of 'I put away about 1/2 mill, then go to Brazil and get a wife'.
- Men who got a degree in Engineering, and then did not do Engineering. Many engineers in America go into finance. At least there you get rewarded based on results, and have a high upside. There was also a kid in Australia who never used his Mechanical Engineering degree, and went into Real Estate agency instead. According to the news article, he was on 800k and he was 27.
-- This includes Engineering Sales. With sales you have a potential upside for succeeding, often a large one, because of performance based pay and networking value. Being able to bring sales to a company makes you massively valuable (it's all they care about in Australia), compared to just being an engineering grunt.
- Software engineers. They didn't have good lives, but they didn't have bad lives either. Mainly because they have higher mobility so they can move to another country where life is nicer, and because software engineering seems to be in high demand at the moment. Software engineers seem to have much less 'pidgeon hole' risk than any other type of engineer.

Post: #12

There is a major difference between being a sales, development, research, process or quality engineer.

Post: #13

It's fucking awesome. My job is one of the top 3 things I'm grateful for: family, being male, cool job.

Find something you love doing for the right reason, such as making medical devices because you are helping sick people get healthy. It shouldn't matter if women are attracted to your job title because your game is tight for 200 other reasons, right?

Don't like meetings? Be your own boss. Corporate BS or bad location? Change companies. Sounds like you just haven't found the right place yet. I've switched around a lot, and at the bigger companies you can go into different divisions easier. You can do CAD and product development anywhere, in any product field.

Post: #14

What are the best ways to get into these consulting/SME jobs? Get really good at one particular thing? I get a lot of calls from recruiters looking for CAD drafters, which I'm fairly good at, but they turn me down once they learn more about my experience/pay level. I've been abusing my company laptop and practicing CAD outside of work a little. I'm passionate about design, and I have solid all-around product/project management experience.

Post: #15

I would get to Houston and get in the oil/gas industry before it deflates too much. I don't have the mechanical engineering degree but I've done more force calculations than some industrial "engineers". There is no topping out at 110k, plus that may be for a regular design engineer, not senior design engineer not engineering manager not a bunch of other avenues. I know people with business degrees making less than 60k. It sounds like you're not happy and need a change. If you want to do design work, you need to go to a place that allows you to do that.

The other option is to get into a "technical adviser" similar to a consultant, but where you work for the company to find a fit for the customer. Much like a sales job but you have the engineering background to actually make things happen and don't promise unicorn shit.

Post: #16

I graduated with a degree in petroleum engineering in '94. Oil industry was terrible at the time and no one was hiring. I worked a regulatory state job for about a year and said hell with this.."time to get into the private sector" I became a financial advisor and haven't looked back building a decent sized practice.

Part of me still misses the oil industry as I did some internships there. Occasionally, I think about seeing if I could get back in and what kind of gig I could get. Although, I haven't been practicing since 95. So, for all intents and purposes, I'd be like a new trainee.

I think the key for OP would be to eventually try to either get with a consulting firm or hang your own shingle. As I understand that's where you can make big income. If you could get affiliated with the oil industry, such as an independent, and get a cut of the deals, perhaps a royalty on production or you drill a bunch of wells that produce and sell the whole lot of them to a private equity firm or some such, that's where millions are made. The key is to, obviously, get in with such an outfit. My uncle, a geologist by trade, is doing just that.

It's almost like flipping real estate. His outfit is drilling 5 -12 producing wells with massive production due to enhanced fracturing technology. They're hitting up the west TX area. Then, they sell the producing wells to a PE firm. Making money hand over fist.

Post: #17

Man, most of this thread is completely whack. Just because you got your degree in Engineering does NOT mean you have to be an "actual engineer". You can literally do ANYTHING you want with that kind of intelligence. If you aren't going to put the time into putting it towards something you love, you are being a little bitch. That's all an engineering degree is - logic. And you can apply it to management, sales, education (me), entrepreneurship, and even law.

(10-13-2014 05:24 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  3) Women seem to be sexually turned off by engineers, and I've always felt like society in general seems to be oblivious to or disrespectful of us. I used to tell people that I was a musician (my biggest hobby outside of work) because I hated all the negative connotations that are associated with engineers (dorky, un-hip, un-fashionable, awkward, etc). Have you guys experienced this?

Anyways, I'm rambling here. Anyone else have any thoughts, comments??

I am an Environmental Engineer, which girls are totally into, and i quite intentionally did so to attract women while making bank. However, ANY type of engineering you can downplay - I call myself an "environmental microbiologist" or "research associate". Practically any engineer can call themselves a "designer" when talking to women, and they'll eat it up. This should be obvious to every RVFer.

In fact, why the fuck are you even talking about your profession when picking up? Save that for dates.

(10-14-2014 01:44 AM)Vicious Wrote:  I don't get it, you guys who are in the field breaking your backs. I got into engineering by the "train hard, fight easy" principle. Endured tough college years in ordered to coast in worklife. I barely put in 20h of active work a week. The rest of the time in the office I spend bettering myself by reading, trading or just chilling. Get a couple of paid trips for it every year as well.

Worried about the engineering "tag" being bad for game? Only if you let it be.

This.
Though it sounds like you got lucky with your company. I put in 20-25 hrs/week mainly because I do research, if you are a real engineer and pull off 20/week I'd love to know how you did that.

(10-14-2014 02:16 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Basially OP your entire post is bang on the money. The risk return profile of Engineering is fucking horrendous. The stress and work load versus the payoff can be truly masochist. I don't think most kids really research this stuff before they go into it though. Reality hits them a few years into their work careers when they say 'Ohhhh Shitttt'.

- Men who got a degree in Engineering, and then did not do Engineering. Many engineers in America go into finance. At least there you get rewarded based on results, and have a high upside. There was also a kid in Australia who never used his Mechanical Engineering degree, and went into Real Estate agency instead. According to the news article, he was on 800k and he was 27.

Point 1) i think the reason most kids do engineering is we theoretically get lots of money ($55,000) real fast, even though it caps quickly after 5 years ($90,000). We all subconsciously knew this. But we want to live fast, get rich fast, and think about the rest later. Fuck the doctors/lawyers who don't see money till they're 35 yrs lol.

Point 2) yes, agree that Engineers should get into other fields and bring their intelligence there. Your friend was probably incredibly intelligent due to education in mechanical engineering, and brought that logic to real estate. Guess what - most people that studied Real Estate (or economics, or whatever) are probably dumb as a sack of bricks compared to us.
.
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Post: #18

I graduated college 5 months ago. Have had an engineering job for almost three months now.

In those 3 months I have realized that being an engineer is not what I want to be.

What I am about to say will only matter to very small group of people, but here is how I feel about it.

An engineer is still a peon in the business world. You are still a tool that owners and entrepreneurs use to make money.

Yes, you are one of the smarter peons, which means you get to avoid hard physical labor. You are still a peon nonetheless.

All the hard work you do, will be for making other people a lot money. If you stop making those people money, you will be discarded like every other useless tool that gets tossed to the side.

This is the cold hard truth.

This is why I have already started learning how to code websites and am actively building my own. Once I finish (probably in February), I will have officially started my first business.

Post: #19

(10-26-2014 02:06 AM)All or Nothing Wrote:  I graduated college 5 months ago. Have had an engineering job for almost three months now.

In those 3 months I have realized that being an engineer is not what I want to be.

What I am about to say will only matter to very small group of people, but here is how I feel about it.

An engineer is still a peon in the business world. You are still a tool that owners and entrepreneurs use to make money.

Yes, you are one of the smarter peons, which means you get to avoid hard physical labor. You are still a peon nonetheless.

All the hard work you do, will be for making other people a lot money. If you stop making those people money, you will be discarded like every other useless tool that gets tossed to the side.

This is the cold hard truth.

This is why I have already started learning how to code websites and am actively building my own. Once I finish (probably in February), I will have officially started my first business.

Agreed with this. I realized you're still one of the peons. Currently looking at other options until I graduate in ~2 years. At least it ensures I won't do any hard labor. Looking to have my business exceed my potential salary when I graduate.

Post: #20

I'll echo the sentiments of a guy I knew, who left finance in France to do hard labour in Australia:

'I'll take back-breaking labour over mind-destroying stress any day'.

Manual labour ain't bad at all, kind of theraputic in fact. It's also mentally easy, it merely tires your body, but leaves your brain undrained. And that guy pointed out another benefit: if your job involves lifting heavy things, you get muscularity as a bonus.

Post: #21

(10-27-2014 06:47 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  I'll echo the sentiments of a guy I knew, who left finance in France to do hard labour in Australia:

'I'll take back-breaking labour over mind-destroying stress any day'.

Manual labour ain't bad at all, kind of theraputic in fact. It's also mentally easy, it merely tires your body, but leaves your brain undrained. And that guy pointed out another benefit: if your job involves lifting heavy things, you get muscularity as a bonus.

There is an alternative. I went from a stress full mental situation to working physical labor. Only problem is 12 hours of physical labor a day ia just trading your time/life for a pay check. They key is to find a job that provides a good stress with which you grow and become better at life in general. I imagine that comes from running a business or doing high flying sales.

Post: #22

Agreed. Stress is acceptable if it is rewarded. Sales and business satisfy that - performance linked pay.

Post: #23

There's a certain lifestyle that comes with sales too. I heard car paid for + company card isn't too uncommon.

Post: #24

Found this on Yahoo Answers:

Quote:Clever women know the value of a good man, and know how to attract and to keep one.
Since it requires a tremendous amount of self-discipline to become an engineer, engineers who are males are more likely to be good men and good for families.
Therefore clever women figure that out and look for those men.

That being said, these women are not going to be the young undergraduate bimbos. They may have had some experiences that made them appreciate a good relationship; are you OK with that?

So all you have to do is to remain highly visible to these women, keep your options open, and try to be sensitive to the fact that some of them are trying to get to know you. They will then do the rest.
Source(s):
I've seen it happen - multiple times. And they live happily ever after. True.

I think I just vommited a little in my mouth.

Anyways, I've been seeking out the positive in my current job. Getting to know my co-workers better, gaming everyone (including a few cute young secretaries), getting more vocally assertive with my opinions during meetings, using my talents to help the company improve, etc. Such is the life of a medical device engineer! Often I feel like a rock 'n roller stuck in a day job, but it's my disparity. And it does have me on a solid career path where I'm gaining technical and soft skills that can lead into something better down the road.

Screw being a good lil' beta and marrying a "clever" woman like the above advice tho. I've been out w too many women like that. I wanna go slummin' and meet more of the girls I want! Attractive girls, cool girls, girls who are trendy but not too full of themselves. And if I can't find a decent gf/wife locally within the next 1-2 years, I'll probably start seriously considering going to Mexico or Colombia to find a wife.

Post: #25

Did internships during undergrad not show you what to expect in engineering?

Also physical labor is not easier than mental work in my opinion. After a truly physical job you want to just eat and sleep after work, forget about gaming, sometimes you don't even eat just sleep. If your doing 40hrs of hard labor you recover on weekends.