Post: #1

It seems like there's been an upward tick in reflection about relationships/end-game in the manosphere lately - Dagonet's break-up, Roosh's epilogue on Anna, VK's 34 post. Lizard of Oz's thread a while back.

I was struck by the similarity between Dagonet's "feeling that something is wrong" but being unable to pinpoint the precise reason, and Roosh's struggles with the feeling that he had everything "on paper", but that he still had a feeling of doubt, to the the point of hoping that she would be the one that acted to end things with him to avoid the regret of doing it himself.

The question I have, particularly for the post-30/40 guys on here - did you ever push through a rough patch in an LTR or Marriage, to the point that you were thinking about ending things, stayed with it, and do you feel that you were better off for staying? Regardless of whether that LTR ended anyway eventually, or you are still together to this day.

I expect the consensus on here, aside from the avoiding relationships/marriage altogether, will be to always move on at the first sign of doubt / imperfection - and I don't disagree with that. I'm just curious if there are any guys at all that can attest to being LTR in the past, having a phase of existential doubt, pushing through it, and can say today they made the correct choice in doing so.

Basically what I'm trying to do is re-validate the red pill script that you should always leave her first, and ask questions later - 100% of the time, no exceptions. That if you have the slightest level of doubt that you should stay, then it's time to hit the road, no matter how many emotional or logical reasons justify otherwise.

Post: #2

(10-15-2014 09:42 AM)poledaddy Wrote:  The question I have, particularly for the post-30/40 guys on here - did you ever push through a rough patch in an LTR or Marriage, to the point that you were thinking about ending things, stayed with it, and do you feel that you were better off for staying? Regardless of whether that LTR ended anyway eventually, or you are still together to this day.

I really wish I could speak from authority here, but in my experience, chicks are usually the first ones who want to break out. Every guy I know, even the miserable ones, is willing to work on the relationship.

Men have a tendency to get behind something, stick with something, even if it's wrong.

WIA

Post: #3

I am 46 and the wisdom of leaving a relationship presented in the red pill world is spot on in my life. My gut has never been wrong.

Post: #4

I agree I am in a 20 year marriage. And I can say that if I had to do it over again I would not do it. I had a moment of strong doubt before we got married. But went through with it anyway.

Now I have to live with the consequences. I have two awesome kids to show for it and many great memories. But it was still a mistake. I was too blue pill. And too much of a pussy at the time to follow through with the right decision.

Dont make this mistake. If you have any doubt. Take your time and explore that doubt. If you do not have doubt. Still take your time and test your resolve for moving forward. Force your girl to prove herself to you.

Do not make the mistake I made. There is no other thing I can tell anyone on this forum that is more important.

Post: #5

I'm having doubts right now about a relationship I am in because she is "too perfect." I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. she is 25, feminine, thoughtful, kind, doesnt party, wants family life (is amazing to my kids, really, enhances their lives), thinks about ways she can help me, cleans up my house, cooks, shops, is 100% available sexually all the time, is about a 7-7.5 in hotness physically but all these other items make it +1 for sure....

but yet, I have this sneaking suspicion she either a) can't have the stamina to keep this up or b) something terrible will be revealed.

in her words, she is utterly devoted to me. she knows explicitly that i bang other chicks. we've been together 6 months and she continues to impress daily...

but yet, my dread is there in the back of my head - this is too good to be true- what bad shit is going to happen??

i'm I fucked in the head or just wise at this point i wonder?

Post: #6

As someone that is getting married soon, I'll let you know in 15 years!

Post: #7

(10-15-2014 11:12 AM)Downtown Wrote:  I'm having doubts right now about a relationship I am in because she is "too perfect." I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. she is 25, feminine, thoughtful, kind, doesnt party, wants family life (is amazing to my kids, really, enhances their lives), thinks about ways she can help me, cleans up my house, cooks, shops, is 100% available sexually all the time, is about a 7-7.5 in hotness physically but all these other items make it +1 for sure....

but yet, I have this sneaking suspicion she either a) can't have the stamina to keep this up or b) something terrible will be revealed.

in her words, she is utterly devoted to me. she knows explicitly that i bang other chicks. we've been together 6 months and she continues to impress daily...

but yet, my dread is there in the back of my head - this is too good to be true- what bad shit is going to happen??

i'm I fucked in the head or just wise at this point i wonder?

She is an attractive girl at 7-7.5. She is 100% available for sex whenever. She knows explicity that you bang other girls.

Go through her phone, I'm sure you'll find that other shoe that your talking about

Post: #8

(10-15-2014 11:25 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 11:12 AM)Downtown Wrote:  I'm having doubts right now about a relationship I am in because she is "too perfect." I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. she is 25, feminine, thoughtful, kind, doesnt party, wants family life (is amazing to my kids, really, enhances their lives), thinks about ways she can help me, cleans up my house, cooks, shops, is 100% available sexually all the time, is about a 7-7.5 in hotness physically but all these other items make it +1 for sure....

but yet, I have this sneaking suspicion she either a) can't have the stamina to keep this up or b) something terrible will be revealed.

in her words, she is utterly devoted to me. she knows explicitly that i bang other chicks. we've been together 6 months and she continues to impress daily...

but yet, my dread is there in the back of my head - this is too good to be true- what bad shit is going to happen??

i'm I fucked in the head or just wise at this point i wonder?

She is an attractive girl at 7-7.5. She is 100% available for sex whenever. She knows explicity that you bang other girls.

Go through her phone, I'm sure you'll find that other shoe that your talking about

I dont even have to go through her phone. I know where she is at all times. She keeps me informed. She has never not been where she said she was. She deactivated OKC and Tinder unilaterally.

I can see the utter devotion in her eyes and actions. I judge people based on what they do and not what they say.

There is zero chance she is banging anyone else.

She has orbiters for days, no doubt about it. But at any given moment I know exactly what she is doing, where and with whom and the odd times I've said - hey cool I'll join you - whether it be home alone in her bed or out with friends - she's doing exactly what she said she was.

I think her stamina in doing all of this may run out. that and her future 27 year old self may not like the decisions her now 25 year old self have made.

That part you can take to the bank.

Post: #9

We could ask Rollo tomassi for a data sheet about ltr's i think

Post: #10

@Downtown I smell troll. 25 year old hot women that is doing this much (and from what I did understand you were married and had kids).

Can you give us what you are doing in return? Do you buy her expensive clothes? Do you have $25m in the bank? Is she looking to get a visa? How old are you?...

Post: #11

(10-15-2014 12:06 PM)almohajem Wrote:  @Downtown I smell troll. 25 year old hot women that is doing this much (and from what I did understand you were married and had kids).

Can you give us what you are doing in return? Do you buy her expensive clothes? Do you have $25m in the bank? Is she looking to get a visa? How old are you?...

You have a grand total of 4 posts on here, you joined this month, and you smell troll?

You do realize what "game" means, right?

Post: #12

(10-15-2014 12:06 PM)almohajem Wrote:  @Downtown I smell troll. 25 year old hot women that is doing this much (and from what I did understand you were married and had kids).

Can you give us what you are doing in return? Do you buy her expensive clothes? Do you have $25m in the bank? Is she looking to get a visa? How old are you?...

I do not have $25MM in the bank. Yes I was married and have kids. No, she is a US citizen. Yes, I've bought her some stuff but she never asked for it once, I did it because I could and I wanted to. She has never asked for anything.

I understand it smells trollish - which is why I'm talking about it here. I keep looking for something to come up which re-confirms my views on all women. Telling myself I found someone "different" seems retarded.

Post: #13

I have mixed feelings on it. The girl I broke up with from after a 7 year LTR was utterly devoted to me.
I loved her very much, but she was getting heavier by the year and was very inexperienced sexually.
There was zero chance of that situation changing so I knew I had to make the break.
When I did, it was extremely painful for both of us, also I was banging a young European BPD chick as my LTR was coming to an end, which complicated matters further.
Got badly burned by the BPD chick as well as suffering from huge guilt over the breakup with my LTR so I was a complete mess for a couple of years, also had desperate oneitis for the BPD chick for a while.
The breakup caused a huge amount of stress, heartache and money.
I'm back on my feet now for the most part and seeing a woman who I have a better balance with and I have a red pill perspective now too which serves me better in my everyday life, compared to the beta bitch I was back then.
Overall I think yes, I am glad to have made the break and made a new start, but it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to deal with in my life and I wouldn't wish the trauma during those dark days on my worst enemy.
My advice would be to sit down and really have a serious think about it, before you decide to terminate a LTR, make sure it's what you want, before taking the plunge.

Post: #14

@ downtown i'm a guy in my early 20's with little experience with women and ltr's so i don't know what advise to give you in your situation. I got a little advise from an older male relative(now deceased at the age of 88) on women he said in life you will find that all women are whores but what you must understand is that there are different types of whores some of them you can keep in line if you know how to. Up until swallowing the redpill i thought the bastard was senile know this is thought provoking hope this is of some help to you.

Post: #15

As long as it makes you happy, why would you stop?

Post: #16

(10-15-2014 10:19 AM)reco2100 Wrote:  I agree I am in a 20 year marriage. And I can say that if I had to do it over again I would not do it. I had a moment of strong doubt before we got married. But went through with it anyway.

Now I have to live with the consequences. I have two awesome kids to show for it and many great memories. But it was still a mistake. I was too blue pill. And too much of a pussy at the time to follow through with the right decision.

Dont make this mistake. If you have any doubt. Take your time and explore that doubt. If you do not have doubt. Still take your time and test your resolve for moving forward. Force your girl to prove herself to you.

Do not make the mistake I made. There is no other thing I can tell anyone on this forum that is more important.

im still in my 20's so this post addresses something that I can only predict may happen to a greater extent than now.

the only woman that I could safely say I fell for gave me those feelings of "should I have stuck with it" and given we had a son together it made it even moreso.

However at this point the more I see her and her husband the more I know I would have left one way or another. She may be an excellent mother but as a partner she wanted complete control and that was part of what drove me from her in the first place and I can see it has come to the fore with her husband (i.e. completely under her thumb).

Like another member posted - "I always trust my gut" and I have no regrets. that being said when I hit 40/50 will I be singing the same tune or wondering what could have been.

Post: #17

There is no script, if anything, this should be teaching you to think for yourself first, not basing your major life decisions on what other dudes are doing.

For me, I know what I want in life. And with an LTR that wants something completely different, its unfair to stay with her. WIA's data is true probably for the majority of men. In my case for my last one, our life's goals were not aligned and she was doing everything she could to make her dreams mine. And an 'accident' would have certainly done that. And any LTR certainly ups your risk of that.

Personally I have no desire for an LTR. It sounds like there are a lot of men here who want that, and I see no point unless you want children.

Post: #18

It's difficult to answer that with a broad brush. The OP's girl sounds great, but her acceptance of him banging other girls is odd. Especially since she's American. There aren't enough details to really say if she's too good to be true.

However, sometimes we feel we don't deserve a good woman so when we do finally find one, we are suspicious. Also if we have the attitude that all women are whores we will surely be involved with them, but we might run into a good girl who senses that about us and then goes out of her way to prove they aren't. Unconciously of course.

She may also be the role-modeling type who is demonstrating how a peson should selflessly care, then later on down the road she will require you to do all the selfless caring she did before. Not saying she's like this, but this type of person exists in both men and women.

Just enjoy it, be relaxed and keep your eyes open. If there is something amiss, she will show it. As Shakespeare said, "The truth must out". She's not perfect, neither are you. 6 months is very much still the honeymoon phase. Wait another year and report back.

Post: #19

If my ex-wife would have had even a reasonable sex drive I'd still be with her and never would have gotten into this stuff.

Relationships can be cool. You save a lot of money, eat a lot of good food, take some cool trips. I haven't had kids but would make the best of that and enjoy the process.

If the sex in a relationship is good and steady, you have more time and energy to focus on your business during your most productive years (25-35, with some slowing down happening from 35-45 and then the male decline starts to show up).

Any relationship with a woman is a deal with the devil. Using a female body to masturbate leads to pregnancy scares, STDs, false rape concerns, and general emptiness. It also takes a lot of time.

How many times do you try remembering the girls you bang...and they all blur into a mosaic? We spend so much time banging girls....that we don't even remember.

"True love" leads to an eventual life of boredom and sexual disinterest as your wife ages. Most men have a decline in testosterone as they age. Lower testosterone and shortened lifespan are two key factors to monogamy.

With TRT and the prospect of living with a woman from the age of [whenever she shits the wall] to 80+....That is a scary one indeed.

Then again, relationships are a lot like life - ultimately it's what you decide to make of it.

I have been happy going out banging girls and have been happy in relationships.

Ultimately I am in control, regardless if I'm living the player life or in a relationship.

Power is freedom.

Guys who are unhappy lack power.

So many men who are obviously lost and hopeless and lack a vision and mission talk about relationships...and then wonder why those same relationships are hopeless.

Real power comes from within. It's mindset. It's a belief in yourself and the knowledge that you'll wind up on top regardless of the situation.

Post: #20

(10-15-2014 08:22 PM)Vaun Wrote:  There is no script, if anything, this should be teaching you to think for yourself first, not basing your major life decisions on what other dudes are doing.

For me, I know what I want in life. And with an LTR that wants something completely different, its unfair to stay with her. WIA's data is true probably for the majority of men. In my case for my last one, our life's goals were not aligned and she was doing everything she could to make her dreams mine. And an 'accident' would have certainly done that. And any LTR certainly ups your risk of that.

From what I've interpreted from the OP's post it's "did they give something up under the wrong presumptions/circumstances?"

If I had to liken it to anything it would be starting your own business; do you fold when it gets tough or do you slog it through because the rewards far outweigh the situation you're in now??

The major difference being with a business the outcomes are endless ranging from nosedive to stellar, with women you know she will get old just like you know she will want things that may disagree with your own, which is a choice each man has to make for himself.

Another vibe I'm getting from the post is when you as a man decide that you are amenable to settling I'm sure at a certain point there will be a few from your past that you would consider could have fit the bill and that in and of itself can be seen as a regret (they may have moved on, got married etc.) just my 2c

Post: #21

(10-15-2014 08:35 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  If my ex-wife would have had even a reasonable sex drive I'd still be with her and never would have gotten into this stuff.

Relationships can be cool. You save a lot of money, eat a lot of good food, take some cool trips. I haven't had kids but would make the best of that and enjoy the process.

If the sex in a relationship is good and steady, you have more time and energy to focus on your business during your most productive years (25-35, with some slowing down happening from 35-45 and then the male decline starts to show up).

Any relationship with a woman is a deal with the devil. Using a female body to masturbate leads to pregnancy scares, STDs, false rape concerns, and general emptiness. It also takes a lot of time.

How many times do you try remembering the girls you bang...and they all blur into a mosaic? We spend so much time banging girls....that we don't even remember.

"True love" leads to an eventual life of boredom and sexual disinterest as your wife ages. Most men have a decline in testosterone as they age. Lower testosterone and shortened lifespan are two key factors to monogamy.

With TRT and the prospect of living with a woman from the age of [whenever she shits the wall] to 80+....That is a scary one indeed.

Then again, relationships are a lot like life - ultimately it's what you decide to make of it.

I have been happy going out banging girls and have been happy in relationships.

Ultimately I am in control, regardless if I'm living the player life or in a relationship.

Power is freedom.

Guys who are unhappy lack power.

So many men who are obviously lost and hopeless and lack a vision and mission talk about relationships...and then wonder why those same relationships are hopeless.

Real power comes from within. It's mindset. It's a belief in yourself and the knowledge that you'll wind up on top regardless of the situation.

the difference between you and I (and this isn't a bad thing just an observation) is that you have experienced a committed relationship and therefore can say with certainty what you will/will not do. Myself at 27 and never having a serious relationship (certainly not one that has lasted beyond a year) I can say I don't want it, and I know that at the moment I do not want it. what I cannot say is the mindset of myself at 27 will continue when im in my 40's (and I would be stupid to say otherwise). this then brings me back to my point in my previous post.

otherwise you're spot on

Post: #22

(10-15-2014 08:37 PM)RUIN Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 08:22 PM)Vaun Wrote:  There is no script, if anything, this should be teaching you to think for yourself first, not basing your major life decisions on what other dudes are doing.

For me, I know what I want in life. And with an LTR that wants something completely different, its unfair to stay with her. WIA's data is true probably for the majority of men. In my case for my last one, our life's goals were not aligned and she was doing everything she could to make her dreams mine. And an 'accident' would have certainly done that. And any LTR certainly ups your risk of that.

From what I've interpreted from the OP's post it's "did they give something up under the wrong presumptions/circumstances"

If I had to liken it to anything it would be starting your own business; do you fold when it gets tough or do you slog it through because the rewards far outweigh the situation you're in now??

That says a lot about "love", doesn't it? I've have had a GF/Wife steadily since I was 18. I had maybe one dry spell in my mid 20's after a break up. You have to ask yourself, how does this "relationship" affect my life? What opportunities am I trading in for access to this body 24/7? Does her presence in my life really make me happier, or is it convenience? Do you truly not like to be alone with yourself? Maybe the question should be what is lacking in my own life that I need to fill it with someone else's hopes/dreams/desires, and expenses.

Post: #23

(10-15-2014 08:45 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 08:37 PM)RUIN Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 08:22 PM)Vaun Wrote:  There is no script, if anything, this should be teaching you to think for yourself first, not basing your major life decisions on what other dudes are doing.

For me, I know what I want in life. And with an LTR that wants something completely different, its unfair to stay with her. WIA's data is true probably for the majority of men. In my case for my last one, our life's goals were not aligned and she was doing everything she could to make her dreams mine. And an 'accident' would have certainly done that. And any LTR certainly ups your risk of that.

From what I've interpreted from the OP's post it's "did they give something up under the wrong presumptions/circumstances"

If I had to liken it to anything it would be starting your own business; do you fold when it gets tough or do you slog it through because the rewards far outweigh the situation you're in now??

That says a lot about "love", doesn't it? I've have had a GF/Wife steadily since I was 18. I had maybe one dry spell in my mid 20's after a break up. You have to ask yourself, how does this "relationship" affect my life? What opportunities am I trading in for access to this body 24/7? Does her presence in my life really make me happier, or is it convenience? Do you truly not like to be alone with yourself? Maybe the question should be what is lacking in my own life that I need to fill it with someone else's hopes/dreams/desires, and expenses.

It does - Aside from 8 months I have spent my adult life as a single male (10 years) and I am fine with my own company. I just have the view that:

1) Not everyone has the same experience nor will they have the same ambitions/goals in life
2) Not everyone will want to live by the sword and die by the sword
3) As I said - every person has to make that choice for themselves and it is not a "one size fits all"

As I said before I am not the same person I was 10 years ago, i'd like to think I am a lot wiser to the ways of the world than I was at 17 just like I hope I am wiser still 20 years down the track. What I cannot say is whether my motivations will change from being a solitary being to including someone in my life to share it with, and that will go for any person who reads this. I am not siding to either oneitis or dedicated player because this isn't a question of static wants more past reflection.

Post: #24

@downtown I know how you feel but if she can keep it up for six months count yourself lucky! Most women can't keep that kind of shit up for one month. But anyway, why worry about it, just enjoy it while it last. Every party must come to an end sometime, doesn't mean you can't enjoy the party.

Looking back over my long-term relationships they always degraded over time didn't matter how perfect the woman was. It's the natural way of things. The only question is how fast is the relationship degrading. This whole concept that a relationship is suppose to last forever is just Disney fairytale BS. They degrade to either nothing or just friendship eventually. It's difficult for me to justify getting into a serious LTR with a woman here in US today. They just don't offer that much. But even when they do they still do crazy shit. For example, my Brazilian gf got all caught up in that Herbal Life scheme and other business related stuff and I had to end up dumping her. Besides, that she was really great at taking care of me.

Post: #25

nomad - you are exactly right, thanks.