Post: #1

Hi guys

TL; DR: Do you use your job to supplement your social life or are you career driven?

I'm in a rather complicated situation so I'll try keep it simple and to the point.

2008-2011: Bursary with a major logistics firm to study mechanical engineering. Graduated end of 2011.
2012-2013: Got shipped off to another city +-1000 miles from home. Multiple issues with work, new environment, away from family, no friends etc. Became very depressed and after a while I sought help and got back onto the right track.
2013-present: Requested and was granted a transfer back to my home town. Have started lifting/gymming, eating right, grooming, new style, ditched negative influences in my life. I also purchased a property and started investing as much as I can every month.

Here's where the problem comes in. I am still stuck in a shitty job. It's soul-sapping, politically driven and run by tyrranical incompetent management. There was talk of moving me again, but for the mean time that is on hold. My job isn't stable and should I leave, I still owe a significant bursary debt (which I can pay but will completely wipe out all my savings and pension.

The job is having 2 influences on me. 1: making me doubt my abilities as a young professional. 2: making me consider 2 options going forward, these being "chill, milk it and focus on developing a side business and grow my social circle" and the other being "use the time, money and good hours to get a better education so that in a few years I'll be marketable and can make a career"


Intuitively I know I should kick ass at my job and develop my education to make a career.

I'm just curious as to how you guys approach your jobs; to supplement your personal life or to make a career, work hard and reap rewards later.

I'm a white male 26 years old earning a good salary (for my country at least)

Thanks

Achilles

Post: #2

The only purpose of doing anything is long-run success in your life.

A job is not a 'default' part of a life, regardless of all the mutterings to that effect we grew up with.
A job is something you do to earn money. Money is earned because it is very diffcult to function without it.
If someone asked you right now: 'what would you be doing right now if you could do anything?', the answer would doubtfully be 'designing something on a computer for someone else'. 'Having a career' is not a valid goal or achievement.

Hence jobs should be done to maximize money, over the long run, per unit of time and stress (stress-time?) invested. If a job does not pay well, you should expect it to be non-stressful. If it is stressful, you should expect it to be well paid, or have a very high chance of being paid well or having much less stress in the future. If you 'enjoy your job', that simply means you have found a job that is personally less stressful.

One of the problems with 'working hard' or 'kicking ass' at your job is that more often than not it will not reward you. You will always need to play games. If you work hard, you will simply be given more work or finish existing work faster. Your boss will even be annoyed you are asking for more work. Working hard is a terrible tactic, which young and naive professionals do thinking that they will automatically be commensurately rewarded by their bosses. They won't be.

The only time 'working hard' is a valid tactic is as follows:
- Not working hard at that point in time will lose you your job
- Your hard work directly correlates with earnings (e.g. commision based jobs, Sales etc)
- There is a specific thing, which if completed and successful, will give you a bargaining chip (i.e. can be used to leverage a promotion, can be used to leverage a salary increase due to your ability to now jump company more easily).

Post: #3

Thanks Phoenix, you seem to be on the same page as I am

News just in, I have to make a decision about relocating by mid-day tomorrow or face termination with bursary debt. I'm trying to focus on how I can make life work (read cover all debts) without this job instead of thinking how I can survive in the shit-hole they want to move me to (it really is that bad)

Doing the maths. It's looking grim, but do-able

Post: #4

It sounds like you have gotten squeezed (ran out of time to manoever).

You will need to consider the following information:
- How easy to move to another firm is it? This information usually comes from applying for jobs, seeing how easy it is for people with the same qualifications or job role to move, networking, general word on 'how in demand' this work is. If you do not have this information, it is best to assume 'difficult'.
- Is it acceptable to suffer one more year in that shit-hole, and then use that year to plan your next move, versus the risks of ditching out with no plan? (Savings vs debt affects this a lot).
-- For instance, experience in the work in that shit-hole could be more valuable, that shit-hole may have more valuable industry contacts, etc etc.
- Will they follow through on the threat

It sounds like a classic 'you have no power'. The language 'there was talk of moving me around again' means you are just a pawn, and the management (you mentioned they are tyranical) has been sure to maintain strong power over their employees (preventing them gaining bargaining chips etc), and do not have to concern themselves with desires of employees.

I'm no expert at corporate games (just started learning about power games in general), but I guess their calculation is this:
- I want the employee to work in this shit-hole because I know enough about his abilities and the requirements of that shit hole, that he'll be able to satisfy this. By filling this need, of someone higher up or someone on same level, I will get 'points' accordingly.
- I believe that through the existence of the bursary debt, his level of skill bargaining chips (how easily can I replace him), and network bargaining chips (can he just jump ship to someone we worked with? etc), he does not have power to resist.
- He will not move by himself, and the incentive required for him to do so will be too expensive.
- Hence if I threaten him, the risk of him not complying (chance and loss incurred if he does), is acceptibly low enough to make this demand, and the upside is acceptibly high.

With this game there is a chance that if you do not comply, they will not fire you. They will still have to find a guy for the shit-hole, and a local guy to do your job now you are gone, so they will have losses (of unknown size depending on their other options).
The odds of this depend on all factors, could be 5% or 95% for all I know.

Just pointing out that it is a game:
-------------------------------- Fire him ----------- Don't fire him
He complies ----------- Payoff 1 (min) -- Payoff 2 (max)
He doesn't comply -- Payoff 3 (?) ------ Payoff 4 (?)

Post: #5

I'd advise you not to quit for the simple fact that it is far easier to find a new job when you currently have one.

To answer your other question, I am career driven. 14 hrs in the office today fuck me.

Post: #6

I really highly advise any guy that is very unsure about what their path is to take a break. Wasting years and energy on a path you aren't sure about is such a fucking waste. By taking a break I mean getting a job like bartending (in America it can be good money) until you know what you want your next move to be. It is often hard to see clearly when you are bogged down in shit.

As I see it you have 2 options:

1) Work at something you like so much you don't care that you are poor. More often than not a player type happy in this type of job means it gives them pussy access either on the job or the status from the job makes females forgive and even admire the lack of money.

2) Work at something that you know if you work hard will earn big guaranteed $ where the time passes by and you find it interesting. Finding the work interesting and not boring is the key part. It does not have be a "passion". Just something where the 12-14 hour days you may need to put in don't seem like torture. Yes it will be tough no matter what, but there is tough and there is soul crushing. There is a huge difference.

Few people can combine #1 and #2, maybe some doctors, very few lawyers (not many - too many are alcoholics and hate it) and entrepreneurial types that would never retire and see building a business like their favorite game.

Post: #7

Thanks to everyone for their replies, it's great to get so many outside perspectives.

@Phoenix, Peregrine & Travesty444; over the last 3 months I've been doing some part time work on the side for a small but expanding firm that's about 2 miles from where I stay. Apart from extra cash on the side, I've been treating it as an "extended interview" both for myself and for this new boss. I spoke to him yesterday and he said he still wants to take me on permanently. The pay is a bit lower than what I'm earning now, but then again my government salary is grossly overinflated.

The company is expanding and this is maybe the perfect time to get in, bust my ass off and make a career of it. The job also requires travelling, which is great as I can immerse myself in other cultures, practice red pill and exlpore the world a bit more.

So yeah, this might just work out for the best